[Dev Update] Skill Balances for Early April

I'm really disappointed with the nerf of Glyph of Lesser energy. While I think it opened up an extreme amount of possibilities for x/E characters, I wouldn't call it 'overpowered.' The elementalist secondary was simply a way to compensate for the increased damage output possibilities in both PvE and PvP.

I like the changes for the most part on the monk. Being a fond user of a ZB/Glyph of Lesser in PvE, I'm a little sad about that nerf. Don't know how I'll be able to monk on my low energy swap as easily anymore

As always, I've felt that the skill balances are always more geared toward the PvP side of things, and it makes PvE a rather boring environment when, unless you have a fairly versed group, stuff just takes too long to get through. As it is, there's already enough inept monks out there - you don't need to make it harder on them

WTB Weapon removal spells, tbh

That's not really a nerf on soul reaping, to be honest. It's still viable, from what I can see.

More lead attack buffs

And Buff paragons but nerf the Affects all paragon craps

Paragons are Leaders, How can a lEader LEAD another Leader and that leader in return Leads 3 other leaders...total BS

the assassin updates are sweet ^^

Ok, reading this thread, I'm Super confused by the Soul Reaping bit. So, you kill X number of creatures and the energy is pooled up, and the after 5 seconds, you get a jumbo surge of energy?

So you kill 10 creatures in a 5 second period, with 16 SR, you wont get (+16+16+16+16+16 etc) you'll just nothing, then at the interval get +160?

The way the notes made it sound, was that you simply get nothing for anything killed between intervals

So you Kill something, get soul reaping...then if you kill enything 5 seconds after that, you get 0..like SR is disabled for 5 seconds. Then turns back on and then you still get nothing until you kill another thing, which would give you another +16...then turn off for 5 seconds and start up again.

The update notes dont really...specify if Soul Reaping is Pooled for 5 Seconds and then drained at once, or if SR is disable for 5 second intervals after being utilized.

Any clarification would be nice.

My thoughts on the SR change:
Whenever I'm running MM in PvE, I'm always playing the "don't waste energy" game; gotta get that next minion up before I miss a HUGE chunk of energy as my team kills 4 things at once. Most of my soul reaping energy is wasted as I have a full energy bar.
IMO, reducing the cost of minions means that we'll be hovering at higher energy levels for most of the battle anyway, and getting 13 energy every 5 seconds will still be enough to keep us topped off, while at the same time hopefully opening up some necro skills to get reduced energy costs to make necs more viable in long battles with few deaths (read: GvG).

[edit]Glyph of lesser energy still gains a x/e 15 energy every 30 seconds...very useful.

Yes, and while we're at it, let's add new skills to almost every line of class to more efficiently remove stances & shouts, too. Removing weapon spells is just retarded. There's no sense in having a weapon spell removal without having the benefit of being able remove other party boosts, too. If that would be the case, there'd be no point to party support at all And as it is, enchant removal already outweighs the ability to do hex removal 0.o.

I have been saying this for a while now (it was my first post on the forums I think)it makes sense to me and would make me enjoy playing paragon again

Buffing Otyugh's cry is the best thing since IWAY.


Still waiting for petcontrols..

With all respect Gaile, Crippling Slash is called Crippling for a reason. Change the name please because bleeding makes the name sound horrible. Call it Barbed Slash or something.

I think weapon spells are pretty balanced, since they can't stack. We have so much enchantment removal only because there are so many enchants that one can pile up on a single character.

Let me explain why GoLE got nerfed...

It does not require ANY attributes unlike other ELITE energy management skill

You get more energy than other energy management skill INCLUDING ELITES.

Basically GoLE is better than Offering of Blood, Mantra of Recall, Energy Drain and Ether Prodigy.

You get 25 Energy every 3 seconds - WITHOUT penalty (ie exhaustion, health sac, etc) and it is unconditional (enchanment, edraining, duration, etc). Not to mention, you could cancel your skill and it does not count against you.

And there is no way to remove it - only interrupt it.

GoLE would be the best energy management skill even if it was an elite skill.

big no no. Skill disable need to be at least an additional 10 seconds. This is going to get abused by monks A LOT.

No...ZB's power doesn't come from the energy. It's because this is the only 200 heal that can target self!!

Lightning Reflex already last 10 seconds...now only 30 recharge??

Needling Shot is too big at 30 damage, need to be 20+.

This is insane

/agreed...but it would have to read all non paragon and non spirits...


serisously though..anet... the paragon has been nerfed to heck and is only now used in high end pvp... for gimmick builds.... the pve community has all but given up on the poor paragon.

I think the change to SR is needed. It might not be this change, but do note that these will be tested for a week before being set in stone (as much as anything is in an online game).

As a primary Ele player, I'm glad for the changes to my class, even the change to GoLE. Heck, GoLE is better now as it saves you MORE energy per use with a high Energy Storage. As it was, I was abusing it on my Monk Heroes. It needed the change. The only bad thing is it will be a bit less useful for lower level characters. But it's still a base 10 energy, which is nothing to laugh at in early game.

But my Mesmer cries...

I've read this several times and I'm not clear on what is happening to Soul Reaping. Is it every 5 seconds you will receive the accumulated energy of deaths during that time?

I like the lowering of cost on some of the bone boys. That’s good.

My other thought is poor poor mesmers. I really enjoy playing my mesmer, but the skills are just not there and doesn’t look like this is changing soon.

It is only ONE spell and what monk spell is there that you can wait for 5-10 seconds?

Monks can barely use GoH + 1 healing skill and that is only 4 seconds!!
Now you need to spec (waste attribute points) for it to get around 6-8 seconds? I don't think so.

The soul reaping nerf wasnt that bad, if anything it should be nerfed more.

GoLE is still really good, most people only used it for 10 energy skills anyway.

i think we all just need to wait and see on the soul reaping issue. no one here really know exactly how it will work, so lets not crush it till we know what it actually does. it could be huge chunk every 5 seconds (12+12+12...), or increased energy from living things (18 energy from 12 SR, 6 for a spirit), or a stead stream of energy (12 energy every 5 seconds). that description, and the assumptions that follow are all rather vague.

just need to wait and see...

I only know this because I love my ranger and that I've been tweaking many Beastmaster builds in wait for the new pet control system.

But Bestial Pounce deals damange and KDs an enemy if they are spellcasting. The skill you intended to mention is Bestial Mauling which inflicts Dazed if it hits a KD'd foe.

But BOOOO! I liked inflicting Daze on monks for 17 seconds. Not that it takes that long to kill them :-p

Yay Otyugh's cry doesn't suck anymore! I've always wanted to use it too. Now its worth using.

*Goes back to tweak a few builds again*

why.. why.. why would you nerf the entire domination line :O you havent even restored insperation to what it was and the trade-off was signet of clumsiness >_< when gaile said "exciting things for mesmers coming soon" this was not what i had in mind -.-

I don't have any comments on the skill changes yet - I suspect I'll just play and feel them out for myself.


But Gaile I must congratulate you on doing a great job on communicating the changes and why they're coming ie. the thinking and reasoning of the dev team.

Thanks for the details and heads up.

I can't believe that we're on page 3 of feedback and this hasn't been mentioned.

Signet of toxic shock is cool now but sig of shadows really needs a buff, its simply crap in comparison

Assassin
Where the shadow prison nerf? Seriously. Also, I'm kinda surprised BLS and BSS weren't touched... if SP was nerfed, this would be understandable, but since it wasn't...? SP, BSS, Twisting, BSS, Blades of Steel still looks way better than any lead-offhand-dual combo.

Nice fix on recall, though.

Dervish
Wow, wtf. Giant thumbs down. Nerf on melandru was good, but we don't need to make other avatars ridiculous. Balthazar, anyone?

Elementalist
GoLE is still very good, but not quite as borked. Mind blast also looks almost viable now. Nicely done.

Mesmer
Again, thumbs down. Diversion/MoR might have been slightly imba (not anywhere near as borken as some stuff other classes did) and you nerfed it? Coupled with shame, guilt and mistrust? GG. Diversion was great, shame was great. Guilt was good dom e-management. Nobody used mistrust. Yet they all get a nerf across the board. Especially unhappy with diversion.

Nobody cares about ether signet, keystone signet, etc. Either change their functionality like you did with Otyugh's or just leave them alone. Keystone signet is like PnH... no matter how short of a recharge it has, it's still trash.

Possibly overnerf on SoF, but honestly that skill deserved it. The rest was 100% unjustified. What do you want, a 100% melee+monk meta? Thumbs way down.

Monk
Nerf on ZB was completely unnecessary. What, monks were breaking the RA metagame? Please. Convert hexes got a good buff, so did smite hex.

Where's nerf on Healer's boon to affect 1...X instead of 10...X spells?

Necro
I'll have to see how exactly SR plays out, but tbh, I'd just 100% remove energy gain from spirits and cut energy gain from minions to 1/2 or 1/3. Still, not going to pass judgment on this one yet.

Price/Reckless: these needed a nerf, but maybe the price/spirit/reckless combo was nerfed too much when considered together. Coupled with yet another butchering of mesmer skills, say hello to all-physical meta.

Paragon
Where's "reduced base armor to 70"? Come on. Paragon armor coupled with best ranged DPS in the game and with all the defensive crap they have is blatantly imba.

Ranger
Lol, I'm putting Otyugh's Cry into my HA build.

Ritualist
Nothing here.

Warrior
Random minor buffs and wtf @ shields up nerf... paragons stay as ridiculous as they are and you nerf one of the best defensive skills against them? GG caster classes imo.



Although the main problem, soul reaping, seems to have been addressed, overall, I'm fairly disappointed with the balance. Namely, the lack of nerf on paragons, an unneeded nerf on mesmers and the general strong push towards all-physical meta. As if it wasn't physical-heavy already.

Monk can use [skill=text]Auspicious Incantation[/skill] + [skill=text]Aegis[/skill]

That's the equivilent of: 30 energy gain every 35 seconds.

Or you can use...[skill=text]Auspicious Incantation[/skill] + [skill=text]Balthazar's Aura[/skill]

And that's the equivilent of 50 energy gain every 30 seconds. A big bonus for smite monks.

Very good buffs/nerfs to balance the PvP world.

And I am very glad that Anet is choosing to explain their changes rather than hide in the dark. Thank You, Gaile, Thank You very much.

I <3 these changes. Lead attacks definitely needed more good options.

Now, if Temple Strike's recharge could just be reduced to 15 seconds to go along with GLS. . . .

Wow I think the whole mesmer PvE idea went directly out the window and all of the supposed helpful updates that were suppose to go into effect. I am severely disappointed to that note. My question is; why could we have waited till Eye of the North came out, before this skill balance would go into effect? Considering that would bring around PvE only skills, so that way there would be less of a backlash from the community. I guess you rather make it more of a pain so we have to purchase Eye of the North to get the full benefits of PvE now.

I guess that whole ranger pet thing and mesmer update is defiantly not going to happen now.

Nerf phe's avatar imo.

Gonna have to slap a great big QFT on that one.

(Except I think you're thinking of the other MoR. Silly acronyms. Either way, the principle is the same.)

O,o

wonder what this means? adding pve only skills??

The way I see it is that SR will be "turned off" after each trigger for 5 seconds. So, for your standard spirit spam build, energy gain was reduced to 7e(@14SR)/5s = 4.25 pips. So, now a necro isn't a class with unlimited energy, but simply with 8 pips of regen instead. (Slightly more, since occasionally you'll get a 14e trigger, rather than 7) Which is still pretty damn borked.

If SR is "pooled", as you thought, this nerf is meaningless, so I don't think that's the case.

yet more pvp imbalance issues becoming pve's problem

predictable

This soul reaping nerf is Garbage

It kills the PvE minionmaster, kills the effectiveness of the PvE SS, and forces the pvp necromancer to have to take Spritway gank.

Minions with their degen are so fragile anyways and with bone fiends still at 25 energy, and bone horrors still at 10 energy, theres just not enough energy to maintain the army anymore.

I'm pretty sure that the pvE B/p group build is dead as we know it too. Maybe it can be ressurected with Ritualists instead of Necromancers though.

In pvp, If you cant get full energy when something dies, you must force death every 5 seconds by having a redundant spirit around. This change, if it doesnt kill the necromancer entirely, forces them into spirtway garbage in pvp.

I hate it.

how do we know that? no one knows how the new SR will work exactly. until we see it, we cant say it will or will not work.

I just have to lol whenever someone from XoO wants to be a smartass with an opinion about PvP. Why would weapon removal spells be retarded? Last time I checked, there are plenty of counters to Shouts, and none of the Shouts are really overpowered. If you look at Weapon Spells, though, they're doing the EXACT same thing as Enchantments, with no condition. Shouts like "I Will Survive!" have a condition for the health regen, which is why they don't really need to be removed. They're inherently balanced. Weapon Spells, though, can't be removed, and have ridiculous effects. Health regen and chance to block, etc and so forth.

Last time I checked, there are exactly two counters to shouts in this game. Not exactly something I'd call "plenty" especially when one of them blows. (Roaring Winds... blows? winds? get it?)

EDIT: Nekrataal - you seem to have no clue about PvE and even less about PvP. L2P plz.

IMO Weapon Spells are already balanced to a degree in that you can only be under 1 at a time. Though maybe a mesmer skill to remove them wouldn't go amiss...

Even before playing it, I think I can say GoLE is better in energy storage than non-att. This is a happy change, I'd also say 10...18 is not enough to reduce it's usefullness by secondary Elementalists. I'd have changed it to more on the lines of 5...18...21. Primary Elementalists, I think you'd find would use it *more* and it would be used less frequently by non primaries. At 20 energy saved minus the 5 energy cost every 30 seconds (which cannot be stripped) it's still in line with ELITE energy management skills...


Oh, and as a Ranger I would just like to add, thanks

I'm wondering when:

Shields Up's description will be changed from piercing armor bonus, to "projectile" armor bonus. Since it doesn't affect daggers anymore as far as I can tell, but affects all elemental bow strings, which aren't piercing damage.

When Vital Weapon + LoD/ZB will be fixed. Right now, LoD/ZB still use your original HP instead of the new max/current with Vital Weapon applied. It seriously screws with both those monk elites.