3 Strikes and your Out to Outpost

SO there I was having spent the last hour and a half clearing 310 enemies from Issnur Island and I was down to jsut the last four Coursairs. I could tast victory and a new area to add to my vanquish title when I was party wipped by the Boss. My entire party was suffering from 60DP, and after two party wipes, on the third we were sent back to the outpost.

I was and AM very upset, but oh well I guess. just be aware that you onlt have three chances if your entire party wipes to win the area otherwise your sent packing in defeat.

Yes, it's a nifty feature of hard mode, once your team has 60dp, you get kicked from the area. I nearly had it from Minister Cho's Estate. Luckily I got to clime back to 15dp and cleared the area. So you indeed have to be carefull. It has been said in the Hard Mode fact list though.

It's annoying, but careful use of 4-leaf clovers is one solution.

Another solution is to know the boss locations in the map and kill most of them earlier on before killing the easier mobs. At least that way you won't waste time clearing the map and then go against a boss that your build can't handle.

Its not 3 strikes you had 60 DP, res shrines don't work if you have 60DP on hard mode, so take candy canes or something to wipe the DP

I like this change. I've always felt that the DP should come with dire consequences.

Yeah, killing mobs through pure attrition was pathetic.

Also, this means GvG is the hard mode of PvP

I must have missed the fact that 60DP caused you to loose, but it is an interesting idea. Just frustrated at my lossing another area for vanquisher. I will have to try it again at some point, i'll just move on to the Bog.

These are the times I'm really glad I stockpiled those candycanes two christmases ago....(I wasn't able to play during this christmas season). =D

Harmode isn't hard it's simply time consuming and very frustrating, for minimally improved drops and 1,500 g lock-picks that break the first time. They really need to make DP reducing items available at the merchant or do a better job of balancing the maps. It's really frustrating to be almost done and come accross a group way over powered and sized, get whacked die 3 times and game over.

QFT, I hope they do add some sort of DP removal item/s, I don't feel like farming another 4k skulls for candycaneS (I need them to finish my drunk title)

Being able to buy away DP is a terrible idea as it promotes Hard Mode being easier for those who are rich. Hard Mode should be for good players, not rich ones.

However the real issue with DP becoming a problem is either:

a) Youre a bad player who isn't good enough for Hard Mode. Thats life.
b) The Elementalist, Ritualist, Warrior and Dervish bosses are overpowered and fighting them causes deaths in youre party, and being successful is reducing the amount of deaths to a minimum. However there are some bosses that are insanely powerful and will cause party wipes; the target is to take down as many of his friends before youre dead.
c) One bad lure causes wide repurcussions where you simply fall into a hole of DP and it gets deeper.

My method is scrolls, bounties and the 50% bonus from Hard Modeing.

I guess that's why they call it hard mode.

Your asking for a flame war with that comment

The most likely option. Haven't hit more than 15% DP the whole weekend myself.

As for the guy who hates DP, what would you prefer, losing exp and de-levelling like other online games? No penalty for dying is something only sissy, poor players who die a lot would ask for. <_<

Hard mode is intended to be challenging, beating it should be your reward. The possibliity of getting good drops is just the frosting on the cake. I do it for the challenge, not the drops.

With that attitude, I hope you do uninsall it. If it was too easy, you would be bitching that it's too easy. So, if you can't appreciate a challenge, then please do the uninstall and go play pong or somthing equally as simple.

I think DP is a great Idea, its well implemented and i see no problems with it. Its frustrating and thats a good thing. Like anything you need to avoid DP and if you get too much DP you will have to restart. anything more then 15% DP and your lossing even in easy mode. 15% in Hardmode is like 80% DP in normal (assuming you could get 80DP).

Where did this "plz uninstall" attitude come from? I don't think it's insulting... Just a little rude. I wouldn't uninstall something on my computer if someone on a forum told me to, so why would anyone else? Please talk to others (even if their ideas are a little "out there") with kindness and tact.

As for DP, I like it. First off, it showed me I'm still not prepared for Hard Mode on some of my characters. Second, it's the only thing that makes me want to keep my allies alive when playing on my Monk. If you remove DP, then you remove my drive to keep you alive.

That would be a bad thing... I think.

So you quit right after you left pre-searing?

I think that is one of the reasons for the increased xp in Hard Mode, to wear off the DP quicker.

We're not going to stop you. Oh, and while you're at it, stop coming here too.

I appreciate the DP penalty, and 60 DP returns to outpost. Normal PvE was too easy, hard mode is much better.

Means you really have to start thinking about what's going on, and good decision making is a must have skill. (That is, for all areas that don't involve being inside the Junundu Worms, you can afk most fights in those things.)

Agreed. I noticed one time that Tahlkora had died twice, sitting at 30dp. Before I knew it, within a few groups, she was at 2dp. I was amazed.

To be honest, there has only been one or two instances where my whole party was sitting at 60 dp and just kept dying. Both times that I can think of, I just simply gave up and re-zoned anyway. I don't see the Hard Mode penalty that bad considering that fact.


The two times I can think of were: That quest outside of Gayala Hatchery where you have to take on several swarms of Kurzick - first time we did it, we got smashed over and over, since there is a res shrine right there. Second time was that quest on Istan where you fight waves of Skale while that guy runs off to do something. We did not expect that and just got sideswiped, dying over and over. Yeesh.

Instead of the jumping all over the guy for hating the DP, MANY of You are missing the OP point and I do agree with him/her. That it's fusterating as hell for spending so much and effort trying to clear a zone. Only to get returnd to out post when all party members reach 60% DP even with hench in party is a bit too much. Hard M odecan still be as much of a chanllange to fight back frok 60% DP to no -%DP by not having these being done BACK TO OUT POST. What makes any of you so good and who made you god to judge anyone here if anyone isn't good enough for hard mode?

So get off the you're high horses

I think its fair, as long as it just is just hardmode. However, I think its time that merchants should start stocking candy, clovers, or other similar items to reduce DP. I think it would be popular for a good number of people. They wouldn't have to be all that cheap, just available for situations like this. It also should be a good gold sink, and that should help Anet since they apparently want to change the way people are farming, even if all the details haven't been set in stone yet. But thats a topic for another thread... At the very least, I think candy cane/clover vendors would be good all around.

I assume youre talking about me saying why you might get DP.

Ive gotten 12 vanquished areas so far, so I can do Hard Mode.

Ive also died in one area, being sent to an outpost afterwards of 2 hours of exploring.

When I went straight back to deal with the area again, I changed my builds, heroes and henchman, took some scrolls and dealt with the area so much better that I didnt need the extra scrolls I bought. DP tought me to improve, and not having experienced it, I would have cleared the area in a lesser state of ability. Improve from it and you get better. Whine in a forum doesnt help.

You assume wrong

Well so can I and that's besides ths point

That's the whole point of this thread... DUH, Not all players like this regardless how good they are. Many do feel that it's a waste of time and effort to get sent back to outpost instead working our way back to NO DP thats a challange in its self.

Whats works for you my not work for everyone esle since not all player have equal abilties and it seems people forget that!!!!!


I haven't whine one bit thanks, nice try, While others have whined and whined on this forum + others they have gotten results(got somewhere) from it.

Yes hard mode will make players better players to only those who stick with it but it's also not the point.

Lol I almost had this this morning.

I cleared whole pongmei valley except a group of Afflicted with a ritualist boss.

After a party whipe, I had 58DP And couldn't risk another death.
Luckily, Europe would get favor after 1 win.

So I waited... and waited... and then finally, europe got favor! So I went to the Res Shrine, kneeled and had the Avatar of Dwayna remove my Death Penalty for the cost of all my cash.

In the end, it didn't really help, cause I just sent my heroes in to attack the monsters, while staying back myself... I killed the group and I got a nice refund of 400 gold and 700 experience :P


The lesson to learn from this story: Take cash in factions areas, and you can remove your DP from res shrines if your region has favor (75 gold for every 2% morale boost)

I had a few guys on 55% last night trying to kill the undead necro boss in The Sulfurous Wastes. Do the shrines not res people at 60% like in PvP?

(Tip for that boss: park heroes in wurms at the edge of the rough terrain, pull the boss out within range of them. DP doesn't matter a whole lot on the map since it's 90% wurmable.)

It's HARD mode. It's supposed to be a real challenge. People with lesser abilities should either improve, or stick to normal mode.

At viper008, making Hard Mode easier by removing the penalty of 60% DP is removing part of what makes Hard mode Hard. You cant just run in and die over and over taking the enemies with you, thats lame yet effective, and proves nothing.

And at "nice try", yes you did whine. You whined that you should be able to continue at even full party wiped more than 4 times, and you whined that it is too much to be sent back in failure. Anet isnt going to change this, because some people complain about it; it is a distinguishing and important part of Hard Mode and will stay.

If you cant clear an area without dieing then youre not good enough for the reward. Its kind of Anet to give you 4 chances that make themselves back up when you kill things.

Used to be that the first time you wiped you went straight back to town. GG no re. That said, you should have read the update notes and it would have been wise of you to bring some sort of DP removal item.

Can't feel sorry for you.

First of all, I adressed the OP's point by saying that whenever I got in that kind of situation (whole party having 60dp), I usually /resign. This means, in case you missed my point, that I actually agree with the function of essentially losing in an explorable (as opposed to losing in a mission because everyone's dead - another mechanic you probably find "unfair") because your team can no longer function properly at 60dp. If you hit that high of DP across the board, something is wrong with your party, be it the builds, the players, whatever, and it needs to be re-evaluated for that area.

Yeah, having all your progress reset because of a series of f***-ups does suck, but then again, if you weren't punished for f***-ups, where would the challenge be? What, you want ice cream when you win and candy when you lose, too?

It's presumably to encourage you to restart with a new build/build changes rather than spending four hours clearing by attrition. It also encourages you to party up with people, since then you're less likely to fail.

Its not like we weren't told of it before heading out...so COMMON SENSE (yes I know most don't know what that is anymore) would mean you watch it carefully. Hard Mode is pretty straightforward.

Question...why if you were at that much DP was your entire team down in the main kill zone??? Namely, your monk(s)? Spread out a bit and damage negates a bit.

If you know your party is at that crucial moment and you are one of 2 standing still but you are both taking damage...RUN, and for pete's sake SPLIT UP, following the person ahead of you just makes sure that the enemies keep them on the kill radar too.

Once again...EVERYONE on a team should have some form of rez!!!! Don't be the last one standing and say "I don't have it"

Sorry to hear that you (OP) were that close to finishing an area. I lost the Sulfurous Wastes that way too...live and learn I guess.

That is a great theory! It makes sense too, as the vanquish fights are so long that you are more than likely able to get a level up.

Also, this seems to be one of those "hard mode is too hard" topics. Some people have good points for ways to adjust hard mode, others are just complaining because it's too difficult. Like someone else said, you shouldn't earn vanquisher through attrition- if you reach 60 DP, you could probably keep throwing yourself at the mobs, killing them slowly, until you get em all dead. Where's the skill in that? Heck, seeing how you would possibly be unable to kill anything in that state, be happy that they gave you a free trip to the nearest outpost :-D

The DP issue isn't sooooo much of a problem in HM. Mostly because you can clear your DP so much faster if you successfully clear regular HM baddies. If you feel you might get hit bad by a boss, be sure to leave a few other groups on the map to clear away your dp before you try again.

On lockpicks: 1500g for something that has less than a 20% chance of surviving is a bit harsh. Especially when some of these chests have been known to drop some cheesey grapes that no one has any use for (only grape rune with anything is vigor, and your likely to get Major inspiration or some other Att major well before). That means, in order to recoup funds spent on lock-picks, when you actually do get something worth selling, it's going to have to sell for a MINIMUM of 15k. But with the new farming code in place, what average player can afford to pay 15k for an item?

The high cost and fragility (best odds give 41% chance of survival, and that's with max in both lucky and TH.) of lockpicks is going to go a long way towards making the economy take a nose dive. If i have to charge 15, or even 7.5k for an item that Joe player can't afford by running a simple farm, you KNOW Joe is giong to cash in on some e-bay gold to get what he can't get otherwise. THe bots might be making less now than before, but that just means e-bay gold is going to go from $2.50/100plat to $4/100plat. If Joe average has a choice between MONTHS of farming under the new conditions, or dropping $4, I think he'll save himself the grief and pay the $4. But, if lockpicks were more sturdy (IE had a better percentage of surviving - I've only had one not break once) then chest hunters wouldn't be obliged to sell their finds for such high costs in order to recoup lockpick losses. As it is, the economy has become a mirror of "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer." Because the only people who stand a reasonable chance(if you call 41% reasonable) of being able to re-use pick are the people who've already spent Hundreds of THOUSANDS on festival tickets and high-end keys from the past. Anyone else who buys a lock pick is pretty much guarunteed it will break = must charge more for what they find. bah, probably not even the right place for this rant.

Now that I think of it, I'm really starting to see a bigger market for exp scrolls. I noticed you get a ton of exp, and exp scrolls would just wipe that DP away.

Sure they're not instant gratitude like the canes and clovers, but hey, it helps.

And you can buy them from NPCs.

Quoted for truth.


If, for example, you can't climb the fruit tree yourself (to get the fruit), get someone to do it for you (play normal mode). If your gonna figure out a new way to win (like when playing hard mode) such as being more intelligent, and learning from your errors; then you should SHAKE that tree and knock down some fruit like a pro does.

This is one of those times where people complain about the facts of life, (HARD mode is "hard for me") well seriously, NO shyt, its called HARD mode, because its hard! Once again, if you can't beat HARD MODE, then play NORMAL mode and suck it up. Life doesn't revolve around your expectations.

Because some people don't like this it DOESN'T mean people suck and should stick to Normal mode. The game still can be a challeng without it, guess you didn't read my post?


No I'm not whinging, And you don't know how I play the game so you or anyone can't pass any kind of judgement other wise. Who are you to say it will stay? You are Not Anets spoke person.


You can disagree and thats fine but NONE of you can judge someone playing abilties FROM A FORUM POST nor you should try and bash them. This a forum to dissuss things but I get told we are "whining" oh please get a grip.

It can be frustrating trying to clear an area for 2 hours and then failing right at the end (I was 9 foes away from clearing one area before my heros just decided to stop doing anything ). But, no complaints here. It is "hard mode" after all. It should be tough.

What you would propose? No repercussions for deaths at all? That would only encourage stupidity.

YA IF YOU SUCK YOU SHOULDN'T LOSE /sarcasm



thats life