i still dont like them..

hmm well i havent taken the time to read all the posts here, just the OP and a few random posts throughout. So my thoughts may have already been mentioned.

My honest take of the OP's originial thoughts...
First of all, BAD example to base your overall thoughts of a class on. RA? Come on, that is like PvP noob central. You can do the same test you just did on ANY class, and find an overwhelming amount of "crappy/dying/useless" players for that class also.

Admittedly, yes the class is attractive to "noobs", because of the class' natural abililty and synergy for self heals. Basically, a lot of the dervish ability is based on self survival. However, as some have no doubt said already, just like ANY class in GW, it all comes down to skill choices, player skill, and a person's own understanding of that class. With that in mind, dervishes can dish out HUGE dmg, maintain good pressure, and survive at teh same time, all coming back down to skill choices.

Back before the Avatar of Grenth nerf, we saw mass dervishes in HA and GvG. They provided some heavy pressure as well as spike dmg ability, it got so out of hand Anet pushed that nerf. We see dervishes a bit less as much as before in those same places, but are still present. In high end PvP, the majority of players that would play a dervish understand the mechanics of the class and use that knowledge accordingly for very effective teamplay, pressure and frontline assault... Basing the PvP usefulness of a class solely on RA is basicaly irrelavent.

As far as PvE, you say you used a build that seems to be popular even today, and did well with it in PvE, but still was not impressed? Hmm, i would be interested to see taht build you speak of... So, if you WERE doing well in PvE, but was still not enjoying the class, what else do you need? And how was that successful build "dwarfed" by your other classes? If you mean other classes could out-damage, survive better, or were just more fun then your dervish, then i honestly think your "successful" build was non-existant. I have used many many builds and can situate him to do great dps or spike just as well, sometimes better then a warrior. Just curious as to what made it "meh" in PvE for you, as you don't really provide any real reason.



This just solidifies my points. You think all builds out there suck, assuming you have tried every and all build combinations out there? You say warriors outclass dervs, which is yet to be proven, just more opinion based on RA. Watch high end PvP, when you see a dervish there, you will see their PvP effectiveness. You think they are outclassed in PvE? I would say you need to learn the class better, since PvE is where they shine. You say they can be shut down in too many ways; you do realize that GW is a PvP balanced game, right? Meaning ALL classes have a counter and multiple ways of being shutdown. Period.

Your "i still dont like them.." argument is based on such subjective things, that trying to say it is universally bad can only be proven as your own personal opinion (as i assume you mean), rather then a valid and objective observation. Your two main arguements are based on RA PvP (that very irrelevant experiment), as well as your personal experience with them in PvE as being, "meh". Can you honestly say that those points offer any real valid support or truths for your argument? Basing your views that this class is universally bad on those two points is really naive, but in the end, is totally ur prerogative.

This is close to how most people reacted to Assasins when they first swarmed PvE and RA. You are totally justified to have your own opinion, but i would rather you provide some valid/factual points so that a real discussion over class effectiveness could take place. Remember, i am also stating just opinions, none of what i say is meant as an attack or stated as fact. I mean to point out argument flaws so that further intelligent debate can take place.

Hopefully i have provided a good amount of things to ponder.
cheers.
A major flaw in your debate is that you totally accuse me of placing some sort of hatred towards dervs, and that all of my inconclusive testing was done in RA. you flat out didnt read all of the post to even know what all i did. i tested in RA, TA, GvG, HA, and PvE, all of which i was disappointed on my own personal opinions as where the dervish stands in comparison to other classes.
I have multiple test showing the dervish death ratio in all 4v4 battle combinations in multiple testing rounds, with and without team support and overextending, and i participate/observe MANY high end battles, in which usually dervishes are never even involved other than maybe one derv as pressure to allow a warrior or other class to do all the actual damage. i've already "pondered" many things dealing with the dervishes class, and to answer another post, i know all about dying to make the 130 build "more efficient. if you werent so quick to think you know more than everyone you'd also know that its NOT good to ALWAYS die when using the 130 hp builds seeing as your target may call for a different style, so please, refrain from trying to "make me look bad" because you think i have no idea how a derv works, just because i dont like them. you can know EVERYTHING about something, and still not like it. the same thing would happen if you saw a nice imported car, it was fast, powerful, ect, you knew all the specs, but you JUST DONT LIKE IT. people CAN have opinions while being educated, and learning and experiencing everything dealing with said subject in person. i thought the pve was fine, big whoop, pve isnt hard. maybe in HARDMODE, but even then, i dont let or want dervs on my teams. in 4v4 arenas, dervs are cute damage, but for a nice TA team, they're practically nothing. a thumper/warrior or really anything but an assassin maybe, will do much better 9/10 times, and thats an opinion based on factual evidence, observing, playing. i have literally tried every build i have ever seen for pvp/pve IN PERSON, and PROPERLY, and have not been interested in the damage, nor utility of the class. i have also OBSERVED 90% of these builds in said arenas/pve to see if maybe my use was sub-par, and in fact was NOT, and testing became quite conclusive in my previous judgment on my own personal test.

in conclusion, i will make some videos showing some real gameplay, and SSs depicting what i see in arenas/pve that is bothering me. these will not be biased, and will be based on calculated team functions, and not the sole role of the dervish running about with a million healing skills and pretending to be invincible. i will try to make it as fair as possible, and make many test, as to not show only a few "unlucky" runs in either parties case. this isnt to prove anything other than that i want people to understand my opinion, and at least stop bashing me because they read two lines from the OP thinking they know everything in the world.

next time Batou, try reading all of the post before you try godmode in a forum, then you just make everyone look silly repeating what you should have read. : /

Using a Reaper's sweep build, I had a situation where two Evis/Exe Warriors attacked me, alone, with no support - in ~25 seconds I had killed them both.

Clearly, if 1 Dervish > 2 Warriors, then 1 Dervish >> 1 Warrior.

Yes, what I did is true (on more than one occasion being outnumbered), as for the second part, I'm mocking your stupid RA anecdotes. ra is by no means something to laugh at due to its unpredictability. ever hear of blind study? a double-blind study? censuses? they all involve RANDOM testing and RANDOM study. it was testing based off of the random team situation and support/utility function that dervishes try/do accomplish. many people used RA as a form of gaining glad points as well, meaning not ALL of the people that play there are retards like you seem to conclude. i easily make 2-3 a day just from ra, and thats a lot of the time having a so-so team in comparison to premade or personal build teams.

congrats, you killed two warriors. what build/skills were you using, what were they? you leave all of that part out in trying to make people look silly, when in fact, what you're saying imo, is you were using tons of healing skills, and they were sub-par warriors. again, congrats. im anxious to see what build you/they were using.. of course, not saying your build is bad, just more or less curious. i know first hand i saw tons of terrible players, not just skills. the skill bar is half the battle, and moreso just the tool. its the hand that runs the skills that makes the teammate. again, my whole OP is about the fact i feel dervishes add more trouble to the team utility/synergy, where as other classes would just excel and not be constrained to enchant/form, lack of team support. yes they can heal others here and there, but thats they're only team roll other than big pressure, and if thats it.. ouch. not saying all classes need to have all this wild team magic happening on one skill bar, that'd be silly to say, but the OPTION should be there. THATS where my problem is. lack of skill function/multiple utility situations where build is more of a 2nd nature rather than "this works EVERYWHERE!!!! dervs are the bestest class ever!" that to me is poor/lack of skill/versatility.

again, my opinion. and doubly again, dont bash an arena/subject/person because you dont like/understand them. if you have an opinion about ra, fine, but dont call it or part of a much larger, more defined test, stupid.. cause thats just stupid.