No Option For 7 Heroes: Gaile Grey - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

27 May 2007 at 20:33 - 1

Here's an interesting post from Gaile Grey which had been a heated discussion in Riverside and Sardelac a while ago...\

(Note: The original thread was about allowing a full Hero party in Hard Mode)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile

have spoken with the design team, and they do not intend to increase the number of heroes in a party either for normal mode or Hard Mode. As I have said before, the maximum number fulfills many design objectives, and the primary reason for not making a chance is that the team does not want to disincent someone from playing in a party with other people, and the change requested leaves little doubt that this would occur. Secondary reasons include but are not limited to: Not being able to control the number of heroes which results in the inability to use them as intended (having them sort of be "super henchmen" without the delicacy of control and an essential interaction between leader and heroes), or, if used as intended, having an extremely cluttered interface that makes it difficult to play the game with ease and enjoyment. (That of course could lead to the request to alter the interface to use the number of heroes that is in fact higher than intended, and that is not planned nor part of the schedule, obviously.)

I have read the comments that players have made about this subject, and more important, the majority of those on the design team have done so, as well. I discussed this with James Phinney, Lead Designer, and he said that the team fully understands the arguments that players have made in support of allowing more heroes, or all heroes, in a party. They are aware of the suggestions as fars as having a cobbled system with controls for some and no controls for others, or modifying the way heroes function, or making changes to the interface to allow full interaction. However, the final decision on this matter was made by the design team prior to release of Nightfall. So do be assured that the designers have read the comments, concerns, and suggestions on this matter, but with a clear and comprehensive view of the overall game, and out of respect for the vision that they have and must champion for the game, they have no plans to make a change to the number of heroes controlled by a player.

The original thread, and the stem of most of the suggestions for 7 Heroes in Hard Mode relate to the difficulty and cookie-cutterness of Hard Mode. And, more importantly, the lack of people attempting Hard Mode.

And ArenaNet's primary reason for not allowing 7 Heroes is to create more human-based groups?

Yes, because there are always 8 people looking for Eternal Grove HM or Hell's Precipace HM. The fact that people would want to do these missions solo with 7 Heroes means that they are idiots and anti-social. [/blatantsarcasm]

Another interesting comment was about Heroes being "super henchmen." Do you know what a "super henchman" is called? Average!

*zing!*

The logic is shaky...but it's not our fault that no one plays Hard Mode...

Ravi

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

Average Joes [none]

Mo/W

27 May 2007 at 21:30 - 2

Three simple steps take care of this:

1) Get a buddy with heroes. (the leaves us with 2 players 6 heroes)

2) Get Thru The Mission / explorable area

3) Stop complaining about every little thing.

No game is perfect zinger, if u get this thru ur head the pain will go away lol

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

27 May 2007 at 21:34 - 3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

The original thread, and the stem of most of the suggestions for 7 Heroes in Hard Mode relate to the difficulty and cookie-cutterness of Hard Mode. And, more importantly, the lack of people attempting Hard Mode.

And ArenaNet's primary reason for not allowing 7 Heroes is to create more human-based groups?

Yes, because there are always 8 people looking for Eternal Grove HM or Hell's Precipace HM. The fact that people would want to do these missions solo with 7 Heroes means that they are idiots and anti-social. [/blatantsarcasm]

Another interesting comment was about Heroes being "super henchmen." Do you know what a "super henchman" is called? Average!

*zing!*

The logic is shaky...but it's not our fault that no one plays Hard Mode...

I agree that this is pretty disappointing, and the logic fails on a few points.

If Anet wishes to promote our playing more in groups than with Heroes/henchmen, then plaease put in place some of the suggestions I, and I am sure some others, have made regarding Party Search and hard mode support in comments in Sardelac. Its excrutiatingly difficult to find other hard mode players as it is - this is why, precisely, some wish to use 7 heroes.

If they wish to discourage our playing in Hero-majority groups, why can we play with two players and the rest Heroes? A great majority of hard mode teams I see do this and its not all that different than playing with a full 7 Heroes, since this is with 6.

Why are 7 Heroes disallowed but Heroes and henchmen combined allowed? The implication is because henchmen are inferior. This is true: one only has to look at their skill and attribute combinations to see that henchemen are designed, when taken in combination with this quote, to be not terribly efficient on purpose. Its long past time henchmen got halfway intelligent skill and attribute assignments. Even if we cant use 7 heroes, there's really no excuse for Icy Veins having 6 soul reaping and the many other examples we can cite that put serious limitations on henchmen abilities.

dragonslayerfight112

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2006

Sarcred Forge Knights(SFK)

W/

27 May 2007 at 21:35 - 4

I do hard mods whenever i can, i really do not understand where you are coming from. I see at least 3 or 4 groups attemptimg hard modes in most missions

Skye Marin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

The Seraphim Knights [TSK]

E/A

27 May 2007 at 21:35 - 5

I can't really say I've seen this as a glaring error. I've come to think that there is similar logic between only having 8 skill slots, and only having 3 Heroes in your build at any one time. It would be nice if there was more, but it is what it is. That's hardly an argument I'd use to change someone's oppinion about the issue, but it makes sense in my head.

If you can't find 8 people, you could probably at least find one other person with a set of heroes of his own. That other person could even be a guildie.

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

27 May 2007 at 21:40 - 6

Quote:

Originally Posted by dragonslayerfight112

I do hard mods whenever i can, i really do not understand where you are coming from. I see at least 3 or 4 groups attemptimg hard modes in most missions

I have never seen this. Once.

Its rare I find someone else to do hard mode with to take three other Heroes, let alone the shock of finding a full team of humans, which happens once in a blue moon.

Antheus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

27 May 2007 at 21:40 - 7

Quote:

Another interesting comment was about Heroes being "super henchmen." Do you know what a "super henchman" is called? Average!

Still better than average player...

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

27 May 2007 at 21:46 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Still better than average player...

Actually, so far, in my experience, human players in hard mode are far better than henchmen. The human players I have pugged with in hard mode have been great. Taking henchmen along instead has been less so.

I wish Anet would back up what they say in that quote by Gaile and actually support hard mode players finding each other better through improved Party Search and some other support in hard mode then. Let's see them do that. I'd honestly be happier anyway. Its just if they dont do that, they're leaving hard mode hung out to dry imho. My experience has been more like Zinger's - finding two or three people even willing to play hard mode in most any mission location takes up most of my online time, if I even get lucky enough to get a group together. I'm quickly losing faith in it completely.

Here was my suggestion in Sardelac for better hard mode support. Some ideas anyway. As a last resort failing any of those, I did mention the allowance of 7 Heroes - if they didnt actually do any of the other things - particularly global Party Search would be helpful.

I'd rather they did some of those things than allow 7 Heroes, but since they havent supported hard mode at all, or fixed Party Search, it would have at least made playing it better and more possible when no one else was around. I dont suppose the amount of people playing hard mode is actually going to increase any. If there are many who do, I cant find them - which was much the point.

Phantom Gun

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

Minion Bombing in Elona

The Drunken Dragons [DRNK]

Rt/N

27 May 2007 at 21:46 - 9

7 Heros?

Sorry but no way. It's hard enough finding a group of real players as it is. Especially if your build isn't one of the "popular ones". I admit I like the heros. It's nice having them around for quests and stuff. For missions though I like to group up with real people. If I wanted to play solo all the time I would play a single player game. I think 7 heros would pretty much kill PUGs all together.

Even with 3 heros on most of the missions in NF I mostly see people standing around afk with their heros and some henchies. Sure I see a few people running around lfg, but sometimes it isn't even enough to make up a group. So I will have to disagree with allowing more then 3 heros.

Theus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

W/Mo

27 May 2007 at 21:47 - 10

Boy.Was I stupid for being excited about Hard Mode.I thought it would be different from regular PvE.Instead of having to Hero/Hench everything I can finally play in a group of other human beings.

Hah..was I wrong.

Kool Pajamas

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2005

Maryland

Mage Elites [MAGE]

27 May 2007 at 21:49 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Still better than average player...

So true. Yesterday I tried a pug for some nightfall mission for the heck of it, and we failed twice. I decided to go back to hero/hench and mastered first try. So sad.

Tahlia Tane

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2006

W/

27 May 2007 at 21:53 - 12

Sigh......... some of you guys are just... too much.

I honestly hope ArenaNet or Gaile won't think the majority of Guild Wars players are like... you guys...

Theus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

W/Mo

27 May 2007 at 21:54 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phantom Gun

7 Heros?

Sorry but no way. It's hard enough finding a group of real players as it is. Especially if your build isn't one of the "popular ones". I admit I like the heros. It's nice having them around for quests and stuff. For missions though I like to group up with real people. If I wanted to play solo all the time I would play a single player game. I think 7 heros would pretty much kill PUGs all together.

Even with 3 heros on most of the missions in NF I mostly see people standing around afk with their heros and some henchies. Sure I see a few people running around lfg, but sometimes it isn't even enough to make up a group. So I will have to disagree with allowing more then 3 heros.

Why do I get the feeling you only made this post on the topic title,and didn't actually READ the Original Post?

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

27 May 2007 at 21:55 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tahlia Tane

Sigh......... some of you guys are just... too much.

I honestly hope ArenaNet or Gaile won't think the majority of Guild Wars players are like... you guys...

Be more specific as to why or how? You arent exactly being helpful.

Phantom Gun

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

Minion Bombing in Elona

The Drunken Dragons [DRNK]

Rt/N

27 May 2007 at 22:03 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theus

Why do I get the feeling you only made this post on the topic title,and didn't actually READ the Original Post?

I read the whole thread. It's just my opinion on adding heros. Not really the whole post.

Diddy bow

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2006

Jawsome!!!!!!!!!!!

looking for one :p

A/D

27 May 2007 at 22:17 - 16

i think it would be far to easy to complete this game with 7 heroes, so im glad its limited to 3. I do however think that most human players are better than hencies, hencies are bad but they are reliable.

scottyboysn

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

USA

Kingdom Of Deities [KOD]

R/

27 May 2007 at 22:18 - 17

I really get a kick out of them saying it would reduce players playing with other players, especially when you can have a full party with 2 players and 6 heroes. All the extra heroes would do for me is replace henchmen, not people. Who is really concerned about the henchmen's feelings? Come on.

I've really been frustrated latley trying to get my Guadian of Tyria title. Every single one I've completed has been with heroes and hechmen. I've TRIED to complete them with human players (if I can find them), but not once has a human team managed to stay alive. It's a miracle I was able to do Aurora Glade with heroes=/ Sanctum Cay? Forget about it. I've been trying to find a party for a week.

KikiRae

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2007

27 May 2007 at 22:39 - 18

I really wish they would let us have 7 heroes, but then again we do get spoiled.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

27 May 2007 at 22:39 - 19

Soooo...

...What was the reason we can't have 7 heroes? I saw none.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

*zing!*

If that's how you got your name, then 10/10.

Edit: Wait! I just saw this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile

...the primary reason for not making a chance is that the team does not want to disincent someone from playing in a party with other people, and the change requested leaves little doubt that this would occur

Too late, thanks to henchmen.

IlikeGW

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2005

27 May 2007 at 22:53 - 20

I don't know if 7 heroes makes sense (you could probably beat all the missions in a couple weekends like that) but there's an absence of solution to get people to party. I've stopped caring about the HM titles because there's no way it's worth camping in mission outposts waiting for groups.

Losttoapathy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2006

Glasgow, UK.

The Cult of Weegie [Cow]

R/

27 May 2007 at 23:07 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboysn

I really get a kick out of them saying it would reduce players playing with other players, especially when you can have a full party with 2 players and 6 heroes. All the extra heroes would do for me is replace henchmen, not people. Who is really concerned about the henchmen's feelings? Come on.

I've really been frustrated latley trying to get my Guadian of Tyria title. Every single one I've completed has been with heroes and hechmen. I've TRIED to complete them with human players (if I can find them), but not once has a human team managed to stay alive. It's a miracle I was able to do Aurora Glade with heroes=/ Sanctum Cay? Forget about it. I've been trying to find a party for a week.

Seriously, I feel your pain. I have been through the majority of Tyria missions on HM (1 with humans, the rest with heroes/hench), but I get to Sanctum Cay, and there are precious few people looking to do hard mode. And the people who are looking to do it, only want a specific team. (Searing Flames eles, LoD monk etc. [Digression, I know...]) I tried doing it with heros/hench but gave up halfway through because most of us were on high DP. Have tried several times since, but to no avail. Too many people are still asking for this on normal mode or wanting runs. Sigh.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

27 May 2007 at 23:07 - 22

I regret we don't have the choice of playing with 7 heroes of our own.

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

27 May 2007 at 23:28 - 23

Actually finding people playing hard mode seems to me to be more of the problem. That's what ruffled my feathers about Gaile's quote, because I can basically paraphrase it as "Tough. Play with people. We arent giving you a full group of heroes so you can do it on your own." Well, I dont want to do it on my own. Has Anet tried to find people to play with in hard mode? If they did, they might also have asked for 7 heroes.

I dont actually care one way or the other about 7 heroes in the end. I want better ways of finding hard mode players scattered few and far between all over the place.

Anyway, I dont think Zinger was complaining. Nothing wrong with a bit of sarcasm. I agreed with it. Finding hard mode players is a problem, and that ultimately was most of what Zinger italicized regarding Gaile's quote. I also appreciated the head's up on Gaile's quote so I knew Anet's position.

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

27 May 2007 at 23:58 - 24

hell I'd be fine with 3 heroes and 4 henchmen, if they'd just make it so heroes stop taking loot and so henchmen only share coin drops! but i guess if they're going to take all the loot, they might as well be the best they can be...

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 May 2007 at 00:24 - 25

I have just painfully completed all the tryia missions in HM. I moved onto Zen Daijun and attempted it with heroes... 3 SF's, Command Para with Charge, ToF, Fall back, and the healer henches*.

Damage output - Awesome, Healing output - Lame.

So then I started LFG after dying over and over. In the first one I got I was extremely happy to be able to take my monk heroes.

Healing output - Awesome, Damage output - Lame.

I mean, we had a Pure W/R tank with Troll ungent doing nothing but staying alive. I tried again and found someone with monk heroes. I was exited until - 'I dont have LoD. I dont have GoH. I dont have Channeling........'

/Banghead against wall.

After about 5 hours of trying one mission, I gave up.

And btw I was LFG for over an hour.

*Talking about healer hench in Cantha, Proffesor Gais build is very very good, perfect, spot on. I cant believe Anet actually have one henchmen with a great build. However, his AI is rubbish. He wont use his elite urn until he runs out of energy, when his urn wears of he is probably at -10 energy from his weapon etc. When I give Razah the exact same build, I manual cast Attuned Was Songkai, give him channeling and dont give him a weapon and he is sooo much better.

But why, if they have the ability to make such a good Rit healer build despite the AI flaws, does Cantha have such terrible healer henchmen with 3 10e spammable skills? It makes me sad when I see Sister Tais skill bar.

/end rant here.

Steps_Descending

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

IN my pocket plane. Obviously!

Little Tom's Pocket Plane [THom]

Me/Mo

28 May 2007 at 01:09 - 26

Somehow, i'm against having full heroes but ...
am I the only one who actually prefer henches to heroes based on personality?
...
/sigh Yeah, thought so.

Tarun

Technician's Corner Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2006

The TARDIS

http://www.lunarsoft.net/ http://forums.lunarsoft.net/

28 May 2007 at 01:17 - 27

If a person wants to PuG, they will. If they want to use all heroes, then let them and stop making excuses about why the team is too lazy to do so. We already can use Heroes and hench, there is no real difference in using an all hero party versus an all hench party; the only difference is that an all hero party can run the skills you want.

Here's the easiest way to fix it. MAX_HEROES = 7 (instead of 3). It's a friggin one byte change.

scottyboysn

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2006

USA

Kingdom Of Deities [KOD]

R/

28 May 2007 at 01:54 - 28

I think the dev team who came to this decision should be forced into a random district for 3 hours and have to type "LFG HM" and then spend 5 hours trying to beat Aurora Glade with henchmen.

That's the only way we'd see change. This dosen't look like a problem their gonna fix based upon the large uproar from the community.

Edge Martinez

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

NC

DKL

28 May 2007 at 02:01 - 29

I think the dev team and Gaile are right. Great job Anet, keep it up!

Smile Like Umean It

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2006

E/Rt

28 May 2007 at 02:18 - 30

The one thing that stood out more than anything to me was this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile

However, the final decision on this matter was made by the design team prior to release of Nightfall. So do be assured that the designers have read the comments, concerns, and suggestions on this matter, but with a clear and comprehensive view of the overall game, and out of respect for the vision that they have and must champion for the game, they have no plans to make a change to the number of heroes controlled by a player.

To me this is saying that no matter what the pros and cons were they aren't going to take it into consideration. It's their baby, no matter what happens they want it how it is, end of.
And they thought about all this BEFORE Nightfall actually came out? So, they didn't actually know just how well or bad it was going to work. Kind of like the Paragons.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I MP I

Meh. I'm not surprised at all really. If adding more heroes became a reality, then the towns would be even more empty then they are now. Guildwars wouldn't even be an mmo. Just a bunch of people playing alone as if they were offline. Not to mention all the endless rants from people who don't own nightfall and have no access heroes complaining about not getting into a group. Hence the decision Anet made. Which is fine either way, I have other things to keep me occupied.

It's about having the option. Just because it's there doesn't mean everyone will always use it.
I doubt very much people aren't going to get groups just because they don't have Nightfall. If so, that'd be a problem already.

KiyaKoreena

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

USA

Kirins of Holy Light

N/

28 May 2007 at 02:30 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edge Martinez

I think the dev team and Gaile are right. Great job Anet, keep it up!

Fully agree with you.

Honestly, for the people whining they should allow people to have 7 heros out at one time because they can't find another person to play with: Find a better guild!

unienaule

I dunt even get "Retired"

Join Date: Aug 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

28 May 2007 at 02:41 - 32

It would help if you didn't say things like "OMFG YOU CANT FIND 7 real people for hard mode," when you don't need seven, you need one, for your "uber team" of 2 people and six heroes. I think Heroes made some people worse at the game because Heroes with decent builds can make up for your own build sucking, whereas before with henchmen, you had a real incentive to figure out how to get along, play nice, and work out a team build with other people. Sure, some people will rage against me saying that, but I routinely built 6-8 man teams in the old days of prophecies with PuGs, and if you really tried and didn't go the second you had 8 people, it was usually pretty good.

semantic

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2005

28 May 2007 at 03:06 - 33

There are 2 really basic reasons we can't have 7 heroes:

1. the game would be stupid easy. Everywhere.

2. you'd feel useless. Heroes would pull so much weight, you could AFK and barely notice the difference.

In most areas, the first one would be true with just 1 more hero. 4 more would be ridiculous. You'd have so much flexibility, it would be trivial to circumvent every tactic employed by the AI in a given area or mission. And once you had set up the skills necessary to neutralize any threats and deal the required damage, you'd have at least a dozen skill slots left over.

Having 7 heroes seems like a good idea, but it wouldn't be fun.

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

28 May 2007 at 03:17 - 34

Bottom line, from Gaile's comments, and the fact that Guild Wars 2 will have neither henchies nor heroes, it's pretty obvious the designers are not happy with the current situation.

Only time will tell if GW2 is better or worse because of it.

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

28 May 2007 at 03:17 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

but I routinely built 6-8 man teams in the old days of prophecies with PuGs, and if you really tried and didn't go the second you had 8 people, it was usually pretty good.

And did you enjoy playing hard mode in the old days of prophecies with pugs and henchmen? Do you even play HM now?

I think comments like yours are purely made without reading anything that this whole disscussion is about.

If I had 7 heroes I would have had Legendary Gaurdian by now, rather then having to join pointless upon pointless pugs and wasting my time.

Theus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

W/Mo

28 May 2007 at 03:26 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by semantic

There are 2 really basic reasons we can't have 7 heroes:

1. the game would be stupid easy. Everywhere.

2. you'd feel useless. Heroes would pull so much weight, you could AFK and barely notice the difference.

In most areas, the first one would be true with just 1 more hero. 4 more would be ridiculous. You'd have so much flexibility, it would be trivial to circumvent every tactic employed by the AI in a given area or mission. And once you had set up the skills necessary to neutralize any threats and deal the required damage, you'd have at least a dozen skill slots left over.

Having 7 heroes seems like a good idea, but it wouldn't be fun.

You know what else isn't fun?

STANDING IN A DISTRICT FOR AN HOUR PRAYING THAT THE NEXT HUMAN THAT ENTERS THE DISTRICT ACTUALLY WANTS TO PLAY HARDMODE!

And no don't give me this "get urself a new guld" horseshit. It's such a retarded counter argument.There are people who play this game that enjoy the guild that they are in, and shouldn't have to be forced to leave it to enjoy particular part of the game.

If I wanted to wait hours on end for party invites, I'd head back to FFXI.

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

28 May 2007 at 03:27 - 37

Gaile made a response to the idea of improving Henchmen instead of allowing 7 Heroes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile

I think that's a really good idea. The design team would welcome comments on that subject, I'm sure. Of course, like any other subject, listening and analyzing input won't necessarily result in implementation, instant or otherwise. Despite our track record of fulfilling enormous numbers of player requests, Guild Wars cannot be built around "design by committee" or based on fulfilled demands that are counter to the overall good of the game. But your constructive ideas on the subject of henchman improvement are more than welcome. Keep in mind that there is a non-henchman, non-Hero system for GW2 so I would suggest that simpler suggestions are better than those that require half a dozen designers and programmers to implement, for that would seem a foolhardy utilization of staff, given the future.

You'd think that the designers of the game would know why Healing Breeze and 10e spells are bad on Henchmen Monks...

I think it's a ploy to make us feel important.

Koross

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2005

Celestial Order

R/E

28 May 2007 at 03:35 - 38

I think that whatever reasons Anet comes out with and no matter how strong or correct the reason is, people will still complain about it because ultimately, it goes against their wants.

You can read any of these type of threads and there will be people pointing out both sides of the arguement and also the steps on how to utilise the heroes and henchies properly. In the end though, its how the game is at the moment and you should learn how to use it to the best of your abilities to make the game fun for you and everyone else.

Orinn

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Defiant Dragons

28 May 2007 at 04:28 - 39

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboysn

I really get a kick out of them saying it would reduce players playing with other players, especially when you can have a full party with 2 players and 6 heroes. All the extra heroes would do for me is replace henchmen, not people. Who is really concerned about the henchmen's feelings? Come on.

Here's the thing that makes "incentive to play with other humans" a laughable concept. The people who WANT to play with other people, play with other people. The people who don't want to play with other people, will take heroes and henchmen. I'd much prefer taking 7 heroes, but failing that, I'll take 3 heroes and 4 hench over other, live players 90% of the time.

Like I always say: "Henchmen are stupid, but they're PREDICTABLY stupid. Humans come with no such assurances."

Personette

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2007

28 May 2007 at 04:59 - 40

Here's my problem with arguments against having 7 heroes because it would discourage human groups - I don't want to be in a group with someone who doesn't want to be in a group with me. People who want to be in a group with heroes only, who think that human players are inferior, etc., are not going to be fun to play with - they will be impatient, rude, and unfriendly. When you force people to do things that they would rather not do, they tend not to be cheerful or gracious about it. They make everyone else miserable. That's not really a situation I want to be in.

As for arguments about 7 heroes being overpowered - well, the same argument applies to 7 competent HUMAN players, and that's obviously encouraged in the game. If you have seven really good human players, yeah, an eighth person can slack off and everyone else will be fine. If you have seven or eight really good human players, PvE is your oyster. How does it makes sense to say that that's good, but having a single human player with 7 heroes in the same situation is bad?

I prefer to play with real humans, but I would like to have the option of using 7 heroes. And I don't think the arguments presented against it are at all convincing.