The Changing Face of GW's Player Base

I started playing GW about two monthes after it's release. I've also played every campaign, but during this time I've noticed something.

GW is less about completing a story, going through missions, and doing quests.

It's more about farming, cooperative or solo (cooperative farming being elite missions, Gate of Anguish, FoW, and UW). Farming being defined as having a goal of attaining items or gold in the game.

It's more about killing other players for sport. I.E. ABing, Aspenwood, GvG, Pvp.

Not too often do you see what guild wars used to be about. Cooperative missions, quests. Events for the sole purpose of playing in the event.. not for attaining it's unique items, usually to sell back to other players for 4 times the price.

I'm going to hear people who agree with me that this is not the guild wars it used to be. What I'm not going to hear is that guild wars as it was.. is broken. I asked myself why this happened, was it major changes to the game structure?

I really don't think it was. I think it's just the player base that has changed. The old players that still play are more for farming, cooperative or solo. Or Pvp. The new players have to keep up with the Jones's as we say.. and they do the same. Sure the arrival of Eye of the North will cause things to change track a bit, until the missions are completed by the majority. Then it'll be back to farming. Back to killing other players as though this were a shooter.

So I guess I should ask.. why are you that farm.. farming at all? What for? Is it not the same as redoing missions over and over? Do you not already have 10 gold storm bows? 10 million gold? Are you just greedy? Why do you spend hours killing players on computer-generated characters? Is it because you can't kill them in real life?

Is there no one who actually PLAYS a game anymore? For the hell of playing it, without murdering people and hordeing gold. Without scamming noobs, without running bots? Am I the only game player still alive in Guild Wars?

the original GW was designed from the ground up as a pvp game. the prophecies campaign was nothing more than a massively long tutorial to teach players basic playing abilities, build up some friends for a guild, and dive into HA and GvG once they have enough money and skills. therefore, those who pvp are actually playing the game the way it's meant to be played.

as for hording gold, it's only natural. humans are greedy by nature, even if it's just virtual currency.

lastly, if you think pvp is "wrong", then you're playing the wrong game. GW's fundamental philosophy has always been: MMORPG with balanced PvP. if you want to go dash around in the field chasing butterflies (which you can do in GW as well; no one is stopping you), then you'll be better served playing something else.

You contradict yourself, Moriz.

" the original GW was designed from the ground up as a pvp game."

then,

"GW's fundamental philosophy has always been: MMORPG with balanced PvP"

So which is it? A PvP game "ruined" by the PvE addition, or a MMORPG that has appeal for both types?

IRT OP: I play the game, still. I like it; I like the randomness of PuGs, and the reliability of Heroes. I like knowing that I can go almost anywhere in the game and help others, or just wander around and check out some of the great scenery. As an example, just tonight, I found a rock jutting out from a cliff in The Falls. Stand on that rock, and you have a great view of a waterfall. That's the kind of hidden-in-plain-sight gem that keeps me coming back.

Well, truthfully, it's Rurik's cheesy lines that keep me going back to Ascalon for the lulz.

yea I pretty much have just accomplished everything I have wanted to do which is beat all 3 campaigns on my chars stock out their heros and all that junk. Now when I log on I sit there and ask myself "What the hell am I gonna do?" I usually end up trapping stygian veil or asking people for help when conveiently no one needs it when I ask but when I am busy people do :P

Well I am whiping the dust of my BF2 disk and im firing that up

GW eventually became (at launch date) a game that appeals to both types. but it's still pretty evident that the original pve side is a poorly disguised tutorial for eventual pvp. the game itself had always been designed to handle balanced pvp from conception, since it's pretty much impossible to design a pve game and try to add balanced pvp on top of that (see: WoW, L2).

as for whether pve ruining pvp, there's actually a lot of people that agrees to that. i myself will with-hold judgement.

The problem is that the game sustains a loyal fanbase, if you call that a problem. People who have been playing for as long as the game inception through all campaigns don't care about storyline beyond the first character going through. Once you have done it, the challenge in the game is achieving. Getting it done, quicker, faster, more efficiently. Obtaining gold, farming or PvP, titles, etc.

Those wanting to be efficient who have learned to do well with henchies and heroes find standard pugs frustrating. Most of the time not because they aren't willing to help, but because they are unwilling to put up with the BS attitudes from many pugs.

No, she doesn't contradict herself in anyway.

GW is designed with PvP in mind. PvE part, while as important, has never been the main focus of the game. PvP isn't ruined by PvE (she didn't say that, did she?), MMORPG with a focus on Balanced PvP is what GW really is.

The reason why people are mostly farming these days is because the game LACKS real end-game content. All of the end-game content we have now are more or less farming content; you get nothing other than loots from playing it. Let me explain.-

When the end-game content gives you an item as a reward for beating it, people who can't beat it but want to have such item/people who beat it but don't want the item will want to trade such item to each other. This leads to farming. Sure, you may say that for you, hard-earned rewards are better than something you buy with money. But not everyone would agree with you there.

For me, end-game content should be something fun and also worthwhile. I can't think of a way to make it worthwhile without inducing the urge for people to farm, though.

I'm relatively new to Guild Wars (been playing round 7 months). I enjoy PvE...but almost always hate doing missions (and following the main storyline). I find just going out and exploring much more preferable then to doing a mission with a horrid plotline, cheesy cutscenes and lame instances.

I also really enjoy 12 on 12 AB, the endless possibilities of RA, and the intense challenges of GvG and HA. By saying people do PvP just to kill pixled characters is ridiculous, I do it for the fun of testing my skills and builds out against other competitve people all over the world. PvP to me in Guild Wars is almost like playing a sport, you pull for your team and are always looking for stategies to further you and your teams skills and lead you and your allies to victory! I think that is the true aspect of Guild Wars.

Finally, I farm just to get cool looking stuff! Whether it is showing off armor and minipets in Grotto or using awesome looking skins in PvP, farming allows me to get the resources I need as well as making my character more effecient overall in PvE and PvP. Although farming isnt really fun, it is necessay to some extent to get the best out of your character! I could really care less how much gold or ectos my character has in his storage...

and lol at "mudering people"

Guild Wars was always mostly for PvP from the start, It was untill nightfall that brought more PvE elements to it. Yes I play more PvP than PvE.

As to your question. My account is 24 months old and I actually have less than 30k in my bank. The only character I've made ready for PvP is my warrior, who has some good skins items that I've collected over time, and two sets of 15k which I've been really proud to get. I sometimes wish I could have gotten more than 2 black dyes from my time playing, picking up a superior vigor, but I guess its all luck.

My warrior can't really find anywhere profitable to farm with the introduction of HM, so ask the 55 monks that question on the farming.

I've been wrong this whole time then.

I started playing games on the PC with Morrowind. I liked it alot and still do, but it was too quiet. No one else around except the NPCs.

GW solved that, and yet.. it isn't what it used to be back then. Since the focus of what used to be pve-only or pvp-only has changed to pve->pvp, as Moriz says.

I'm not a person who cares for killing player-controlled characters. Fake AI.. NPC, monster.. sure. Not people. It makes you callous. It makes you forget that they're people at all. It makes you see people as machines, as AI. As NPCs. Sure it's fun to kill them. That's the very reason ..that it's fun to kill them.. that I wanted to play pve only.

Maybe you're right.. I've been wrong this whole time. Guild wars isn't pve at all. Are there any left out there that are?

I've said it before and I'll say it again. GW has introduced the best balanced PvP to date in an MMO and it does it really well. However, those looking for an amazing PvE experience are sadly looking in completely the wrong game.

I repeat.. are there any games out there without PvP, and yet have other people? Are there?

For me, my enjoyment of PvP comes from the fact that I don't think of them as AI. I know they're dynamic people with the same intelligence as me (more or less). Its like chess, but instead of knocking the opposing piece over when you outclass an opponent, you do a flashy animation that says Final Thrust.

And Ari, as far as I know most online games are equipped with some at least rudimentary form of PvP. Admittedly, I don't know very far so I may very well be wrong.

Nonetheless PvE is wildly more popular. Your post just invited those comments by implying the PvP types were "wrong-headed" when this was initially something that GW marketing emphasized and they continue to support (somewhat). For one do you notice the slant of most of the articles they put up on their website?

The simple fact of the matter is that alot of people are bored of Rurik's speech the 500th time through it, so questing and missions aren't what is keeping them here. What is (for PvE), is the allure of playing slot machines with repetitive farming runs, or grinding out special titles and skills. These distant carrots keep many entertained when the novelty of exploration has faded because you've already explored everything.

People beat the storyline, and move on. It's either farm for cool stuff (or just for the sake of farming), or pvp, that's all the endgame there really is.

Why do people keep saying GuildWars has always been strictly about PvP? Has anyone ever looked at the advertising? It is about being able to play and enjoy both pvp and pve. here's a couple quotes from my pre-order box.

ok, thats pvp. next quote.
that would be the flameseeker prophecy, which is what the PvE campaign is about.
and the final quote that says it all, from the game's features:
So now can you see that Guild Wars is about PvE AND PvP? And what Ari says is correct. It used to be about having fun, but now all anyone ever cares about is winning and screwing over everyone else.

I see.. I guess what I'm trying to say is..

There are no games to challenge your self without making your self better than other people. Except for crosswords and sudoku.. and forgive me, but I'm not for those. I thought GW was an rpg, a pve game with some pvp that was removed from the pve portion and therefore could be ignored by me. I thought.. way back when.. that GW was a challenge for your self.. to show you could learn how to be an excellent player, and help other players, without the need to compare your self to others and/or compete against other people. Titles.. yes titles are somewhat of what I'm trying to say. They prove to you that you were capable of completing them.. although some people may flash them off to others, but the point is..

vanquisher, guardian, protector.. those are spirit of the GW I used to play. Challenging yourself without the need to kill other real people to do it. Problem is.. those particular titles as an example.. are completed most enjoyably.. with other people working for the same goal. If 99% of players are most interested in peer vs peer to challenge themselves.. what's the point in having those titles at all except to frustrate the one odd person who challenges themselves.. me. Hah. How sadistically perfect.

I'm not sure what you mean. Guild Wars hasn't changed a bit- go back and replay Prophecies and it will be almost exactly the same game you played through two years ago, minus a few improvements and changes here and there.

If you're talking about Factions or Nightfall, I'll admit that the Factions story is considerably shorter than Prophecies, but Nightfall is just as long, with far more quests. Nightfall may have more attractive loot due to market prices, but Prophecies is the most farmer-friendly thanks to things like single-profession mobs (troll/minotaur farming, anyone?) And while both campaigns added new PvP modes (ABs, FA/JQ, and Hero), the majority of the PvP population is in RA/TA, HA, and GvG. So it's not the new content that's changed what Guild Wars is about. (I realize that's sorta what your OP was saying, in a convoluted way.)

If anything's changed, it's players' perceptions. Not the entire player base like you say, but individuals- people go through the PvE story, and eventually some of them get bored and either try farming or PvP or move on to a different game. But at the same time there are constantly new players joining, that start out with the PvE story just like you did.

Heck, there are even still old-timers (such as myself) that play GW for the story, missions, and quests, and not farming or PvP. (Not that there's anything at all wrong with either activity.)

Trust me, for most people it was never about the event itself- people were item-crazy even back in Halloween '05

99% of the player population being PvP? Hardly. It's probably more of a 50/50 distribution, if not PvE downright having more. And there are plenty of people who do both, as well.

Are you referring to having trouble finding people to play with? That's probably more due to heroes and the general poor quality of PUGs than anything else.

And how is PvP intruding on your PvE experience?

You've probably noticed this, but this game has much less replayability than a lot of other RPGs out there. What does a person do after beating the game once on his main character? Play it again? Repeat. What then after going through pretty much the exact same quests 8+ times in a row. To keep the people playing, Anet has added stuff like PvP and farming/titles. The reason why the player base is leaning away from "questing for the fun of it" is because it's simply not fun after doing it a dozen times or more. The new players see these old players farming/PvPing and they want to be more like them, so they're less inclined to play through the game as it was.

I don't kill people in real life because it is illegal and it is morally wrong. Anybody can kill with a gun. It takes little to no skill. Guild Wars on the other hand does. And it isn't illegal. And no actions are final. If I kill Bob he will respawn in two minutes (unless I ownnzz and dp him out =P) and he can always play again. This comment is just plain ridiculous. I spend hours on computer generated characters because for me Guild Wars is still FUN. Well, let me make myself more clear. Guild Wars is exciting. Going an intense GvG vs a closely rated guild still gets me excited and to me excited is synonymous to fun.

IF you like playing pve do it.
if you like the game play it.

Does it take away the enjoyability if other people have to be greedy and farm? there plenty of other people who share the same views as you. It doesnt matter what other people think does it?

Wow, can we QQ more about PvE vs PvP.

Give it a rest, play the part you like. If you think that PvE skill balance unbalances PvP (and vice versa) then ask for specific skills for each division, game over and no flaming needed.

I think we're going to see a lot of good PvE exclusive skills for GWEN, that's good . Give people what they want: overpowered PvE skills that you have to grind to attain, and a balanced set of PvP skills.

Everyone wins and we can stop debating which is better.

We're thinking on completely different planes. And I'm not speaking religiously either. For the record I'm an atheist. You do what you like, but FOR ME.. killing people-controlled characters is wrong. Getting a thrill out of it is wrong. Very few people in this world can see that, and still fewer see it on their own without "direction". But back to the point.

I see I've been misguided much of this time. As I said before I did think that GW was a personal challenge. Something fun to learn to do and adapt to as it changed. Without pvp/killing other characters or player-killing as some call it. As far as how pvp is damaging my game..

THERE'S NO ONE TO PLAY WITH who knows what they're doing. Except Devona, and you know. She doesn't talk much. All the "knowledgable" players skip on to pvp and farming. And AB. End of story. You all answered my questions, and GW's PvE side is dead. Rest in peace.

Aww come on, wouldn't it be better if all wars could be settled in a virtual environment? Seriously, no one gets hurt whether it's serious or all in good fun. Violence in video games does not breed violence in real life. But hey, believe what you will, that doesn't hurt anyone, either.

It seems as if you're trying to slap your personal values onto everyone else. How you play the game is no better and no more important that how others play. You say there's no one to play with, but there is. There's plenty out there who actually think like you do, believe it or not. Find them. Check out guild recruitment, skip around a few cities, you can surely find at least one person or guild. When you find that person, have a good time, add them as a friend and keep doing that. Eventually you'll have a list of friends you can call on whenever. Hell, talk to friends in real life, you never know when someone you've known for a while actually would love to play some GW. You seem like you want to be sociable, well, be sociable.

Hate to say it, but if Joe Q. Farmer wants to farm, that also means he probably doesn't want to PuG. Jon M. PvPer wants to slay other avatars of other people, he also would probably not like to PuG in PvE. If given the power, would you force these two to join you in an adventure, no matter how much they would hate it? Think about it from others' perspectives, it might give you a little more insight.

I'd prefer it to the real-life thing. But then I'd also like to see the need for fighting AND killing.. gone. It's a fine line I draw between things. Fighting and killing monsters is fine. People.. not fine. Fighting in a martial combat situation, a challenge between two equally matched people without the need to kill.. is fine. Fights to the death.. not fine. But either way, my comment there got us off course from what my topic was.

I don't think anyone should be forced to do what I want to. But I do think that the game changed focus. And that upsets me, who loves this game and enjoyed playing it as it used to be. And believe me, when you've stood yourself in Arborstone american district 1 for 5 hours on two seperate days looking for some ONE person to join up with you to get masters in hard mode.. and no one wants to.. you might just begin to think that there aren't any other players who care to.

I see plenty of people still doing quests and missions, either with friends/guildies or h/h, just not with pugs.

By the way, failing to find a group in Eternal Grove, then cursing people who use h/h and hoping they'd fail - that was really nice of you. :P

It was perfectly appropriate for a group who refused to accept me along just because I happen to be a splinter barrage ranger, and not an elementalist. No offense I'm sure, but my heroes and myself lasted longer in the mission than that particular group of helpful individuals. I know, I was there long enough to see them return to town, about 3 times.

So I guess it all comes down to finding a guild with people who do this challenge like me.. since no one wants to invite a random person with "Guardian of Elona" ..which is such an obvious sign of noobness. Where exactly might I find such an awesome guild.. without writing a ridiculous 3 page application? Please.. feel free to pm me in-game. Or any of my fully-equipped heroes.

I've always been willing to help other people with something they need done, and I added them to friends. Unfortunately these same people are not inclined/able to do the same for me, which isn't saying bad about them. This is freaking hard mode, and not everyone can jump into it.

Something must be done. Guilds/alliances.. not cutting it anymore. Friend list.. not cutting it anymore. Too many have other things to do, and it's hard to coordinate anything together. If Anet really wants to keep alive the formation of teams with random people.. PUGS.. we need a global game request list.. similar to search, but visible by all countries, for all campaigns, and all missions. Post your request there, find the party. Boom. You're set. Beats spamming LFG all day.

In all honesty I was hesitant to reply to this thread because it inspires nothing but flamebait, but honestly from what i have read, withnessed in game, and had personal expierences with youre way way way off subject here. Just because it is your personal view that the focus of the game has changed the way that you wished it to be played, does not by ANY means make it so for the rest of the community.
Unfortunately if was appropriate for them not to take you for several reasons. 1.) maybe they already had a ranger in the group. 2.) not every build will work in every location and your build might not have been the build that particular group was looking for. 3.) it might have been an aliance group that had an alliance member comming that needed that mission or wanted to help another aliance member with that mission. 4.) maybe you might have said something about them not taking you in chat that made them want to not consider taking you. (was a guess as i wasnt there, but seen it happen way too many times)

While your heroes can do the job just fine and will work better than most pugs will, ultimately it is more fun to play with other people I will agree, but if others want to play with certian people or with certian builds and you unfortunately do not meet what they are looking for, it is in no way unfair of them. They have a playstyle of their own the same as you do and they can choose options to play with whoever, whenever, wherever they want too.
Honestly if youre looking to play in a group with real people, a guild is 99% of the time going to be your best bet as it will be filled with other people who share the same mentality, but that by all means does not mean that you cannot do a PuG. I still do them a lot, depending on what i need and what they build is that i can run for them, and what they are looking for. All you have to look for is a group forming and see what characters they are looking for. Some characters in some areas will be better than others. Im sorry but this is the plain and simple truth. Just because you are on a character that happens to have a "Gaurdian of Elona" title, does not mean that a PuG will automatically accept you. While yes thats a great accomplishment, it by no means signals that you are any better than the thousands of others who play this game, therefore does not mean that any one group or anyone in the game should automatically include you in what they are doing, im sorry to be blunt, but thats reality. And no you would not have to fill out a 3 page long application to find a decent guild. Look in some of the forums such as the guild recruitment forums on here and youll find PLENTY of guilds with plenty of people who will share your thoughts and opinions on the game. Thats the beauty of this game. It can be played by yourself in solo farming, by playing with henchmen, by playing the storyline, by farming, by participating in PVP combat, or just goofing off killing random things in game with people u know. Just talk to people. Read the forums, start a general conversation in game, or talk to people you know. Those are the best ways to find players that have similar interests as you do.
While generosity is a good thing, it wil not always be returned to you ten fold. Sure you may help your friends with whatever they need, but they wont always be there to help you when you need it, thats life. There are different strokes for different folks. If someone isnt interested in doing hardmode and going for a vanquisher title, then they wont be interested in doing it. If someone doesnt want to go play Heroes Ascent, then if asked they will refuse to go because it doesnt interest them at the time. Or generally people can be busy in midst of doing their own thing, which is perfectly fine. Look around on this and other forums. There are several people that regularly post mission/groups for exploring/questing/etc... online and many people reply to these and go have fun and get to know other people in the gaming community and the forum community. Pugs happen all the time in game. I can go to almost any area and find at least 1 person askign if someone is doing a certian quest or wanting to do the mission for that area, or go LB point farming, or item runs for greens, etc...
This by far is the most misleading point of your entire rant you made. There are several guilds and aliances that do a lot together. Many top PVP guilds do things such as Heroes Ascent or GvG. Many aliance members will often fill in for a player that isnt online or doesnt have the time to participate in these events at the current moment. Many PVE aliances will go on elite mission runs, or questing, or helping out newer guildmates. You see it all the time and it happens all the time. All you have to do is ask and I will gaurentee that youll be able to find someone out there that will help you in your guild or aliance. If youre not in one, than ask in town. Like i said many players are always lookign for people to go questing or do missions, etc... If you strike up a conversation during the run, than all the better. Add that person to your friends list. Again another great way to find people or a guild. There is also the group search pannel. While yes it is seldom used, it does still have a function and players do check it, have you even tried it instead of spamming LFG all day?

My point to all this is simple. Everyone will have a different objective and a different outlook on what they wish to aquire out of a game. Some play it just for fun. Some play it for the items, to be able to see what good stuff they can find for their characters. Some play it with friends they know in real life. Some play it as a way to get their mind off things in every day life. Some play it (the PVP side) for the competition. Some play it just because they want too no matter what they are doing. Everyone is goign to be different, thats why there is many different options on exactically what you can do in this game, but just because you option doesnt fit into what you would like it to, doesnt mean that youre option is wrong, nor is anyone elses. Its just different. No one has to accept people to do anything. No one has to allow you to do what you dont want to. No one has to allow someone into their gaming style if they do not want too.

So no, the face of the guildwars playerbase doesnt need to change, its peoples attitudes and expectations are what need changing.

Huh, so if people prefer taking a hench over you, then it's obviously wrong and "perfectly appropriate" to wish them ill. And that's not pushing your values on other people?

I'm in a decent enough guild/alliance that's been helpful on a number of the HM missions. Casual and no 3-page applications. But you don't need an awesome guild or dozens of friends to group for HM. All you need is one or two teammates who play well with you and your hero setup. You'll still get the results and the human interaction you want.

I guess you may have thought I wanted to change the face of the GW community by posting this thread. No, not even close. Even if I wanted that.. it would be impossible. I only posted this to give a view from one person, me.. a veteran GW player.. of a problem in the game that has only increased as I've played.

Yes, I've gone guild hunting. I'm frankly tired of it. Guild after guild with broken promises: Join such and such and we help with EVERYTHING. We all have level 20ssss!!!! spam spam spam. We've been playing since beta! spam spam spam.

None of the guild ads matter. What matters is this: people will not join to help you if they have better and more important things for themselves to do. Which is 99% of the time in GW. And generally, it's farming-ABing. As you already discussed before.. I like Hard Mode Missions and Vanquishing. It's all very well for you lucky chaps who like what 99% of GW's community like, it's not hard for you to find your guildmates and friends to go with. But unfortunately hard mode is not very popular with most of GW.. either because they cannot access it or because they prefer other things, as you like to point out. Or, because they are so leet they already finished it although it has hardly been a month since release.

But seeing as Hard Mode is part of GW.. GW needs to offer a viable solution to those who want REAL people to help them with hard mode. Search function in an empty town or a town with people seeking normal mode.. is not a viable solution. Spending time searching through guild after guild for SOMEONE anyone who actually does have the interests I do in GW. Like hard mode? ...It seems to me that most of GW's community who actually wanted to complete it through all campaigns.. already did. And seeing as I'm not allowed to drag anyone away from farming/ABing to help me pursue my interest without people crying about me FORCING myself on them.. well gee. Guess that means I'm shuck out of luck. Good thing the henchmen don't have that attitude. Too bad they also don't have the skill of a good real player.

Looks like everyone else is happy with GW's current PvP-solo-oriented attitude.

Huh, you never fight alone.

Wuwhat?
Could it occor to you that i't's not the trill of killing a other character, but the thrill of playing better, using your advantages and perhaps luck to beat a unpredictable opponent?
PvE gets boring easy as once you know the enemies play style (skills, type of attacks, and ways around being targeted) youre set.
PvE monsters won't change, PvP people do apdapt their style to the enemies(most do at least)
Sometimes in PvE these hard core areas like FOW, UW etc are the once where henchies aren't usefull or even allowed.
in these end game PvE you will also have more then ever to deal with your own team, if someone makes a mistake the entire team can die.
It's Simply more dangerous to go to those elite spots and that's the trill, often the items are just a more then welcome bonus!

PvP damaging your game? only if you mean favor and who controls the jade sea/echovalt forest and that's a minor part!
think before you type.

I am not! I only play guild wars now if guildies want to do something or need that extra person, but then thats the same for all the games that my guild plays, be it other MMO's, FPs or RTS's

however, sometimes i do want to just hang out in GW and if no one is online, then yes, i take heroes and hench... besides, they add another quality to the game, they make people think about builds (or at least think about stealing builds off others, like the PvPx Wiki or GuildShack), either way though, as you said yourself, you can't change the players and anyone that moans or bitches about things changing in the game, it did clearly state on the box that "GAMEPLAY EXPERIENCE MAY CHANGE DURING ONLINE PLAY" and they also agreed to an EULA which clearly states that, although you paid money, you are merely renting the use from ANet (or any other MMO company for that matter) and that service can be stopped or changed at any time!

besides, as has been stated before, PvE DOES get boring and repetitive (to the point that I'm actually deleting characters, as i can't bring myself to do things again and again unless i've done it and I'm going back to get a bonus or help someone do it)...

However, if you have a good group, or more importantly, a great guild, as i have, then no matter how boring the actual game is, its completely overshadowed by the fun had from chatting and the camaraderie... hell, i did a straight run through all the missions and bonuses from Great Northern Wall to Lion's Arch yesterday to help new players out... back to back missions, and god damn i was sore at the end, but i had fun and come out of the session with some great new guildies and with more pride in my guild (as some of my officers were doing it just behind me aswell, we also got 7 new members for it aswell)

Exactly! I recently started playing GW again after a 6 months break (am playing from E3 in 2004). After I finish hard mode I will either farm, do titles, etc. or quit and start playing again when GWEN will be released.

Meh, kickboxing gave me nosebleeds and bruises, and it gave a friend of mine a broken jawbone, GW gave me none of that. GW is a test of skill to me, no slugfest. There is a difference in killing an NPC that goes down in a well of blood (3D shooters anyone?) with brain matters spraying all over the place, or killing a player in GW that goes down cleanly without blood.

As for game issues, PvP comes closest to actually playing the game imo. I only play PvE now when others need help. I like the competitive environment GW PvP offers, it comes pretty close to RL sports when you look at the attitude of people.

"You do what you like, but FOR ME.. killing people-controlled characters is wrong. Getting a thrill out of it is wrong. Very few people in this world can see that, and still fewer see it on their own without "direction".

So like, is chess okay?

Oh yeah, chess is fine, only realistic 3D model avatars of people. And ya know, killing these 3D representations with meteors, life-stealing magic, holy smiting magic, and giant hammers, then subsequently having these dead people be resurrected just to die again in some amazing fantastical way is just wrong.

Sorry, had to, just too funny.

i like GW cause i get to talk/play/interact with other people.

Some of us don't get out much and I have fun playing GW. The added bonus is other people do too.

I'm playing other games now. Anet let too much time go by between campaigns, and playing the same hack n slash missions over and over again is not a fun experience. Titles and weekend events... just beating a dead horse...

No, you're not the only game player still alive in GW. You just found another one, and I can direct you to a coupla hundred more of us. The less attention you pay to the players who don't share your gaming ethos, the more easy it is to find the players who do.

I think it is mostly just the player base has been spread over 3 continents, so there are tons of missions (while the couple of farming spots are limited and thus get many players still).