The truth about soloing with Loot Scaling - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

manitoba1073

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

ManitobaShipyards Refit and Repair Station

(SFC)Star Fleet Command,(TDE)The Daggerfall elite,(SOoM)Secret order of Magi

26 Jun 2007 at 06:57 - 1

OK Ill try to explain it as simple as possible. Since some people are confused alot on how Loot Scaling actually works while soloing and not soloing.

First all drops are random.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 8 you have a solo drop rate of around 24%-28% chance to get the drop.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 6 you have a solo drop rate of around 32%-40% chance to get the drop.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 4 you have a solo drop rate of around 48%-56% chance to get the drop.

Now for preseering you have a near 98% chance since its a maximum size group of 2.

That is just the effects of Loot Scalling alone on soloing, with HM involved the only difference is you have a higher chance on the exemptions dropping instead of whites. In NM Its similar without the higher chance of exemptions dropping, while still being exempt.

Now for the rest of it.

Loot Scaling had NO EFFECT on its own except lower drop rates for less than max groups.Dont believe me look at the first 12 hours it was driving prices on everything up, then Anerf had a OH %^$& moment, and added the exemptions list is what allowed the prices to come down by increasing supply.

With HM the only difference is that the chance for drops from the exemptions list is increased.

So for all those out there that thinks it was Loot Scaling that helped you, you are wrong, it was the exemptions list.

Also mods try to leave this stickied so people dont get confused on Loot Scalling anymore.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

26 Jun 2007 at 07:13 - 2

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Now in a zone that has a party size of 8 you have a solo drop rate of around 24%-28% chance to get the drop.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 6 you have a solo drop rate of around 32%-40% chance to get the drop.

Now in a zone that has a party size of 4 you have a solo drop rate of around 48%-56% chance to get the drop.

Now for preseering you have a near 98% chance since its a maximum size group of 2.

So, as your math teacher told you - show your work!

Seriously, I'd like to know how you came up with these percentages, especially the "98%" of pre-searing you claim. You throw out pretty random numbers and expect everyone to just accept them? Or is there some kind of magic formula that was released by the devs or that you worked out on your own? Guesstimates? LoL if it's the last one.

holababe

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2006

Goon Squad [LLJK]

Mo/

26 Jun 2007 at 07:22 - 3

Not to sound too doubting but yeah...some evidence would be nice.

Roshi_ikkyu

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mo/W

26 Jun 2007 at 07:49 - 4

65% of all stats are made up on the spot.

And 15% can be displayed to prove anything.

Serious where is the evidence?

Etta

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Mancland, British Empire

26 Jun 2007 at 07:59 - 5

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!!!
My drop rates are not that much different between solo and grouping, solo still give me as much drop as before.

manitoba1073

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

ManitobaShipyards Refit and Repair Station

(SFC)Star Fleet Command,(TDE)The Daggerfall elite,(SOoM)Secret order of Magi

26 Jun 2007 at 08:27 - 6

You want the proof its simple Ill show you.

its in here. Says a solo farmer will earn double what a single person in a group of 8 would.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile

How does loot scaling work?

Without loot scaling, solo farmers received every loot drop, whereas people who played in a party received only a fraction of loot drops. Thus, solo farmers received up to eight times as much loot for killing the same group of monsters. With loot scaling in place, solo farmers still get more loot than people who play in parties, but the gap is less severe than it was before. It is impossible to quantify precisely how much less because it depends on the type of loot farmed and involves some randomness, but here are some rough guidelines:

People who play in normal size parties, including parties of heroes and henchman, will see no difference at all from loot scaling. At the same time, they will notice that normal mode is now much easier to farm, and that the introduction of Hard Mode provides a place they can play where the loot is better than ever before. Thus, people who play the game primarily in parties will simply make more money than they previously did.

People who periodically enjoy farming solo (with no heroes or henchmen) but are casual about it are also likely to see an improvement. They'll find that solo farming is much easier than it was before, because monsters don't have the anti-farming AI that they used to have, and because the game no longer prevents players from repeatedly farming the same monsters over and over. Many types of builds that didn't work in the past, or that haven't been effective since the earliest days of Guild Wars, can now be used for solo farming. Thus, casual farmers will find the game much easier to farm than it was before, and that they can earn more money than before even with loot scaling in place.

People who were advanced solo farmers and who were earning vastly more money through solo farming than through playing the game normally will see the full effect of loot scaling. They will earn less gold and common loot from solo farming than they did in the past. The loot scaling for gold and common loot is not linear with the number of players in the party, and it includes an element of randomness, so while the difference is not easy to quantify, it is by no means a factor of eight. Advanced solo farmers may now earn about twice as much gold and common loot from farming solo as they would if they farmed in a party. While gold and common loot are thus reduced for these players by loot scaling, certain other types of loot are completely unaffected. For example, Skill Tomes are completely unaffected by loot scaling, so they still drop eight times as frequently for solo farmers than they do for people who play in parties. Thus, advanced solo farmers will find that certain types of farming are still extremely productive for them, but they may have to change what and where they farm if they want to earn as much money as they did before.

If ArenaNet makes it harder for players to farm, doesn't that drive players to purchase gold for cash from the professional farmers?

Thus, with today's build, all of the following types of items will now be exempt from loot scaling:

Skill Tomes
Scrolls
Dye
Rare materials
All rare (gold colored) items
All unique (green) items
Special event items

And then you can go on that with math to figure for groups of 6,4,2 since the percentage for a person to get a drop in a full group is around 14%-16%

Operative 14

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

Arizona, USA

[OOP] Order of the Phoenix I

26 Jun 2007 at 08:28 - 7

I want to ask, where did you get the ingame randomizers algorithem?

***********Edit*********

He answered it just as i posted

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

26 Jun 2007 at 08:31 - 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

65% of all stats are made up on the spot.

94.92% of my braincells think you just made that up, .08% aren't sure, and the other 5% is wondering why female mesmers don't have more lingere-style armor like their enchanter's outfit.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

26 Jun 2007 at 08:34 - 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Says a solo farmer will earn double what a single person in a group of 8 would.

I believe the words you are looking for are: "Advanced solo farmers may now earn about twice as much gold and common loot from farming solo as they would if they farmed in a party." Also: "The loot scaling for gold and common loot is not linear with the number of players in the party, and it includes an element of randomness..."

Key words bolded.

Now, I ask again, where are you getting your percentages?

the_jos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Hard Mode Legion [HML]

N/

26 Jun 2007 at 09:31 - 10

Quote:

Advanced solo farmers may now earn about twice as much gold and common loot from farming solo as they would if they farmed in a party

Farming in an 8 person party nets roughly 1/8 of the drops.
Getting about twice as much would be 2/8, or 1/4 or 25%.
Calculating the element of randomness is not really possible.
However, this depends on the implementation. For example, it could be that the randomness is calculated on the type of enemy (where Vermin has a low chance for drop compared to Oni). Even the mode you are in can affect this.
It could be that this was indicated by "but they may have to change what and where they farm"

That's for common drops.
Some items are exempt from scaling, giving a higher overal chance to get a drop.

I think manitoba1073 is correct with his statement between 24 and 28% for 8-person parties.
The lower end because of the 'about' and the high end because of the exempts.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

26 Jun 2007 at 09:54 - 11

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

I think manitoba1073 is correct with his statement between 24 and 28% for 8-person parties.
The lower end because of the 'about' and the high end because of the exempts.

I don't think so. The random factor is most likely between 1/8 and 1/4 for a standard 8-person zone solo. Nobody knows because Anet will not release their "top secret" random drop code. So, anywhere between 12.5% and 28% would be my guess (the other non-loot-scaled items would likely have a less than 3% drop rate combined - agreed there). It's not a guaranteed double amount, it's quite variable.

The 98% for pre-searing is waay off. Between 50-100% is such a large variable, you could estimate around 75% - or 3 out of every 4 enemies will net you a drop. If that's true, then I must be damn lucky, since I was getting 100% drop rate while farming in pre 30-40 runs (after the first few kills). But hey, saying 98% sure does solve that dilemma, huh?

Pandora's box

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Netherlands

Mo/W

26 Jun 2007 at 10:09 - 12

I'm confused about loot scaling because it seems to be broken for 8 man hench/hero parties. Before loot scaling happened I used to get 50-100 gold from level 20+ monsters about every 5th monster killed (normal mode). After loot scaling this has dropped to an average of about 10 gold for killing 5 monsters. And we talk about 8 men hench/hero parties, so full size! Loot scaling should not affect that!?

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

26 Jun 2007 at 10:22 - 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

You want the proof its simple Ill show you.
Its in here. Says a solo farmer will earn double what a single person in a group of 8 would.

And then you can go on that with math to figure for groups of 6,4,2 since the percentage for a person to get a drop in a full group is around 14%-16%

Wasn't the old official word on the street that buyable character slots won't happen since its impossible to implement them?
You sure you want to believe EVERYTHING they serve you without any proof - or especially if the data provided by the community is contradicting that?

JeniM

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2007

W/E

26 Jun 2007 at 10:24 - 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

94.92% of my braincells think you just made that up, .08% aren't sure, and the other 5% is wondering why female mesmers don't have more lingere-style armor like their enchanter's outfit.

My Mesmer has enchanters armor

Roshi_ikkyu

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mo/W

26 Jun 2007 at 10:57 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

94.92% of my braincells think you just made that up, .08% aren't sure, and the other 5% is wondering why female mesmers don't have more lingere-style armor like their enchanter's outfit.

20% of braincells sent there time working out your %, 60% spent there time remembering the female mesmers, 40% realised they didn't know maths!

manitoba1073, thanks for your instigation on the subject, but the gaile quote is hardly evidence. Untill a empirical study is conducted or actual rates are given by Anet, I refuse to believe/ have faith in any such theories.

Roshi_ikkyu

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mo/W

26 Jun 2007 at 10:59 - 16

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Wasn't the old official word on the street that buyable character slots won't happen since its impossible to implement them?
You sure you want to believe EVERYTHING they serve you without any proof - or especially if the data provided by the community is contradicting that?

Don't forget the old 'There is no farming code' response, which loot scaling uncovered there was such a effect in place.

Aphraelyn

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2006

[bleh]

Mo/

26 Jun 2007 at 11:22 - 17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roshi_ikkyu

20% of braincells sent there time working out your %, 60% spent there time remembering the female mesmers, 40% realised they didn't know maths!

I'm pretty sure his maths is right on

Rusty Deth

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Woodland Realm

Mo/N

26 Jun 2007 at 11:39 - 18

Once again Hard Mode FTW!!!

Plus anyone else notice bosses sometimes drop 3 things? Wonder how that factors in, and thats in normal mode most of the time.

Kinn

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Englandshire, England.

The International Association of Mending Wammos

R/

26 Jun 2007 at 11:48 - 19

What about the "anti-nuke" code that is clearly in effect at the moment?

Just to recap - if a lot of monsters die at the same time, the amount of drops from these monsters is significantly reduced compared to what you would get had you killed them one at a time.

This has been proved as one of the mechanisms in place as part of loot scaling.

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

26 Jun 2007 at 12:04 - 20

uhh never heard of that one there, Kinn...

I Is Special

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

NJ

To Gain Extra Mobility We Play [NUDE]

W/

26 Jun 2007 at 12:17 - 21

Its there, imo. I have definatly noticed a diffrence in drops if i kill monsters 1 by 1, instead of 20 at the same exact moment.

Miral

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2005

Hell. AKA Phoenix, AZ

The Gear Trick [GEAR]

W/A

26 Jun 2007 at 12:24 - 22

sure its not just a matter of the 20 you kill at once being super weak and having lowered drops for that reason?

bad person

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

26 Jun 2007 at 13:03 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by manitoba1073

Now for preseering you have a near 98% chance since its a maximum size group of 2.

You know, I just have to ask...

Is this just what you think (or calculated, whatever), or have you actually put this into practice? The reason I ask is because I farm Pre-Searing a lot. I use the bandits from the Bandit Raid and Protection Prayers quests as my mobs and I can tell you, without a doubt, that the drop rate per bandit is nowhere near the 98% you stated. I haven't recorded how many drops I receive, but rarely do I get 5 and I actually get none more often than that. I'd say my average is between 2 and 3 (but closer to 3) drops per run (8 bandits).

To give you an idea of how much I farm, I recently merchanted a set of 1000 worn belts and also picked up more than 100 dyes from the recent event by farming just the bandits from the 2 quests I mentioned. So, while I don't have hard numbers, I would say I've farmed there enough to know that the 98% you gave is not a reality.

KANE OG

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2005

Ogmios Graybeards

W/

26 Jun 2007 at 13:16 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miral

uhh never heard of that one there, Kinn...

It is very true. It comes up in many threads in the Farming Section. I've also experienced it myself.

KANE

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

26 Jun 2007 at 13:41 - 25

Loot scaling is linked to # of deaths within a short time frame. If you kill slowly enough, you won't be affected by it at all. That makes giving an exact percentage for all farms everywhere impossible.

Alas Poor Yorick

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

26 Jun 2007 at 14:02 - 26

Ok - while math is a good thing, it is only as good as the assumptions that go into it.

You are making the assumption that ANet begins with 100% drop for any area and that the drop rate is then scaled according to party size with a drop rate for a solo party in an 8 man area being about 1/4 that of the drop rate for a party of 8 (based on ANet's statement that a solo player should get about twice times the drops he/she would have received in a part of 8).

The assumption you are making is that the same reduction in drop rate would apply in all areas - so that a party of 1 in pre-searing would have the same drop rate as a party of 7 in an 8 man area - but, since the single player gets all the drops and adding in exempt items, that would come out to about 98%

However, math is only as good as the assumption and the problem with your figures is that your assumption was incorrect. I have already noted that under loot scaling the experienced solo drop rate was about 3 in 5 for pre-searing. that is about 66%. That indicates that ANet was not using the same reduction per person in lower party areas they were using in 8 player areas.

Secondly, it is always a good idea to test your hypotheses. As I pointed out, drop rate has been 100% (after the first 5-8 kills) for Sunqua Vale, Saoshang trail, Panjiang Peninsula (all 4 man areas). According to your figures that should have been a 56% rate. To see if this held true for other areas I tried Haiju Lagoon. I died fighting a large group of Kappas but had killed 79 beasts (after excluding the first 5 kills) with a 100% drop rate. According to your figures I should only have received 32 drops instead of the 79 I actually received.

Again - significant experience of the last several days seems to indicate loot scaling is no longer in effect for low level areas in normal mode.

Alas Poor Yorick

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

26 Jun 2007 at 14:06 - 27

Bad - you might want to run your bandits again - however kill about 5 things before you hit the bandits and see what your drop rate is - it would appear loot scaling has significantly changed or been removed in pre.

Fox- I have never heard of loot scaling being linked to # of deaths in a time frame but over the last few days I have not been killing any more slowly than normal yet have received 100% drop rate after the first 5-8 kills in every low level area I have tried.

Spazzer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

USA

Team Asshat [Hat]

Mo/E

26 Jun 2007 at 14:18 - 28

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

I believe the words you are looking for are: "Advanced solo farmers may now earn about twice as much gold and common loot from farming solo as they would if they farmed in a party." Also: "The loot scaling for gold and common loot is not linear with the number of players in the party, and it includes an element of randomness..."

Key words bolded.

Now, I ask again, where are you getting your percentages?

It's pretty obvious that quote means less than double unless you get lucky. I think he's giving us the benefit of the doubt.

hallomik

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

The Illini Tribe

N/Mo

26 Jun 2007 at 14:56 - 29

Here's the actual math for those interested.

Solving for L (Percent of total Loot drops a solo farmer gets:

X = % of drops free from scaling represented as a decimal between 0 and 1. That is, percent of drops that are golds, scrolls, rare matl's, etc.

X equal to 0 means everything scaled (What Anet initially implemented as loot scaling). X=1 means everything exempt from scaling (The old system).

P = Party Size (2, 4, 6, 8)

(does a little algebra…)

If you're soloing, the % of drops you are expected to get (L):

L = (1/P)*(1-X)+X

If you want to represent X as a number between 1 and 100, the formula is (1/P)*(100-X)+X

See attached chart which implies that X is roughly .15 (15%) if the exemption doubles your quantity of loot by soloing an 8 man group.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

26 Jun 2007 at 15:57 - 30

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Wasn't the old official word on the street that buyable character slots won't happen since its impossible to implement them?

WRONG

since i have several accounts this was of great interest to me.

*THEY SAID*

we are not able to implement extra slots AT THIS TIME BUT WE ARE WORKING ON IT

no mention of impossible to do

Quote:

You sure you want to believe EVERYTHING they serve you without any proof - or especially if the data provided by the community is contradicting that?

considering the tiny sample size any figures stated here are completely meaningless

and as much as i disagree with the OP on virtually everything else i have to say his figures will probably end up pretty close to the overall game logs averages which average all drops for all players over an extended period of time

Vagrant

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

Belarusian Standard Time

A/Rt

26 Jun 2007 at 16:03 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etta

You want the truth? You can't handle the truth!!!
My drop rates are not that much different between solo and grouping, solo still give me as much drop as before.

And that's essentially the way drop rates are supposed to work. You get the same amount of loot everywhere.

Which is why you find so many hard mode solo farmers, because they're farming for the golds, greens, and dyes that are much easier to obtain in hard mode, because they aren't scaled to party size.

Levi Garett

Old School Nub

Join Date: Jun 2005

ABQ, NM

Guildless

Mo/Me

26 Jun 2007 at 16:05 - 32

You guys should just take his word for it since Manitoba is the self proclaimed founder of 55HP monking...

youngstar

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2006

W/Mo

26 Jun 2007 at 16:19 - 33

Who would sticky such a thread? I love your completely made up 'facts' about loot scaling.

First of all, the drops "scale according to party size". This means that they are the exact same no matter how many people you have in your party.

How did you get these percentages? You have no work, not a single thing to prove your theory correct. Party size has nothing to do with loot scaling anymore, it was stated in the updates. I like how you say that you have a 98% drop rate in pre-searing because of the party size. It has been noted that pre-searing has become exempt from loot scaling.

Please, prove me wrong, although I doubt you can.

Gimme Money Plzkthx

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

26 Jun 2007 at 16:24 - 34

This looks like a load of BS to me. No one can calculate all the percentages and stuff except anet, and I wouldn't believe anything they told me anyway...

Razz Thom

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Three Feet Below Sea [LevL]

D/Mo

26 Jun 2007 at 17:16 - 35

as far as the "anti-nuker" code, if that is true then it makes Dervish completely worthless. Very, very often i drop three or more enemies in one swing and i still get decent drops.

Razz Thom

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Three Feet Below Sea [LevL]

D/Mo

26 Jun 2007 at 17:26 - 36

as far as the "anti-nuker" code, if that is true then it makes Dervish completely worthless. Very, very often i drop three or more enemies in one swing and i still get decent drops.

Loviatar

Underworld Spelunker

Join Date: Feb 2005

26 Jun 2007 at 19:02 - 37

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by youngstar

Who would sticky such a thread? I love your completely made up 'facts' about loot scaling.

First of all, the drops "scale according to party size". This means that they are the exact same no matter how many people you have in your party.
Please, prove me wrong, although I doubt you can.

a pleasure and i will even give you the dev page linkie

Quote:

Without loot scaling, solo farmers received every loot drop, whereas people who played in a party received only a fraction of loot drops. Thus, solo farmers received up to eight times as much loot for killing the same group of monsters. With loot scaling in place, solo farmers still get more loot than people who play in parties, but the gap is less severe than it was before.

notice the little bolded part that proves it is not directly scaled?

top quote go down until you see........

Quote:

How does loot scaling work?

and there it is

less difference not 1/1 scaled difference

as the devs ave stated many times

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10148600

manitoba1073

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

ManitobaShipyards Refit and Repair Station

(SFC)Star Fleet Command,(TDE)The Daggerfall elite,(SOoM)Secret order of Magi

07 Jul 2007 at 21:05 - 38

No the reason im not wrong is very very very simple. Anerf has givin us the only thing we need to know of loot scaling, ITS BASED ON PARTY SIZE and NOTHING ELSE. You can do the math yourself if you want, but in an 8 man area in a full group the chance for each and every player to get the drop is roughly 12.5%. Because no matter what you want to think 8 of 8 is 100% and 1 of 8 is 12.5. Now a solo person will get roughly twice as much. And you can do the same maths for the smaller group areas.

Alas Poor Yorick

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2007

07 Jul 2007 at 22:12 - 39

But it is not based on party size anymore

No matter where I go, if I solo and kill things one at a time I get a drop from EVERY SINGLE KILL except the first few in an area (used to be 5-8 but the last update raised that to about 12) In three weeks of killing thousands of mobs there have been only 2 exceptions to this (and one of them may have been a miscount on my part). I have killed in ALL areas of Shing Jea, presearing, and several areas around old Ascalon and Istan. Maximum Party size varies in those areas from 2 to 6. Yet there has been NO variation of the drop rate.

Small H&H parties in areas that can accommodate 8 person teams have yielded the expected rate from BEFORE loot scaling. Far higher than the rate I was getting with loot scaling in place.

However, solo farming with AoE style and killing several at one time has resulted in a 1 drop in 4 rate - vastly different than the solo rate Melee style.

You math does not work because you are assuming that ANet has not changed the rules.

Experience says they have.

manitoba1073

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

ManitobaShipyards Refit and Repair Station

(SFC)Star Fleet Command,(TDE)The Daggerfall elite,(SOoM)Secret order of Magi

08 Jul 2007 at 00:19 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alas Poor Yorick

But it is not based on party size anymore

No matter where I go, if I solo and kill things one at a time I get a drop from EVERY SINGLE KILL except the first few in an area (used to be 5-8 but the last update raised that to about 12) In three weeks of killing thousands of mobs there have been only 2 exceptions to this (and one of them may have been a miscount on my part). I have killed in ALL areas of Shing Jea, presearing, and several areas around old Ascalon and Istan. Maximum Party size varies in those areas from 2 to 6. Yet there has been NO variation of the drop rate.

Small H&H parties in areas that can accommodate 8 person teams have yielded the expected rate from BEFORE loot scaling. Far higher than the rate I was getting with loot scaling in place.

However, solo farming with AoE style and killing several at one time has resulted in a 1 drop in 4 rate - vastly different than the solo rate Melee style.

You math does not work because you are assuming that ANet has not changed the rules.

Experience says they have.

And you are basing them that Anet has changed the rules. However Anerf hasnt said they have.

Now as Ive said it is still based on party size only. You have just been lucky is all. Plain and simple truth. Still dont believe in that you are being lucky, flip a quarter 10 times count the results. However the chance to get Heads will remain the same 50% no matter what the results are.

Now as far as the AoE killing at same time IT IS A BUG, its more of a proximity bug than a timed kill bug. And for not getting stuff outa the first 12 or so heres a little help. Wait 1 minute before you start killing things, and you will get drops from them also.