This isnt a thread being anti-Anet and suggesting we need a AH to sort out trading. Its a thread concerning the attitude of traders.
I've found during the few times I've ever managed to trade, that people ingame dont actually trade in the traditional sense.
Traditional trading to me involves this process....
1) You adverstise an item for higher then its sell value.
2) Someone takes interest and views the item.
3) They ask what price you want.
4) You ask for an inflated price..
[here is where it changes. Traditional trading would go like this]
5) The buyer barters the price down, and offers a lower price.
6) You barter back and ask for a bit more.
7) You eventually come to a settled price and everyones happy.
Now this isnt how it happens in GWs. In GWs it goes like this...
1) You adverstise an item for higher then its sell value.
2) Someone takes interest and views the item.
3) They ask what price you want.
4) You ask for an inflated price.
[here is where it changes. In reality it goes like this]
5) The person says "Ha noob, grow up, its not worth that"
or
5) The person says "I cant afford that"
6) Trade cancelled!
My point is why?
Is bartering a taboo?
Do people understand the concept of trade?
The issue with this, is that unless you know the exact price for an item, you wont sell anything. People just refuse to even take notice if you post an inflated price.
You're expected to know the exact price of the item your selling, or your a noob, your insulted or your called a scammer! But not everyone is a hardcore trader and knows prices inside and out.
Example of the attitude...
I had an experience in NightFall where I had no idea what the price of Trade Contracts were, because I had never bought them before. However I knew they are used for Rubis, so I was asking to buy them (for what I thought was a high price) of 100g each.
I soon noticed someone in that outpost was posting "Dont sell to Freekedoutfish hes a scammer, TC are worth 700g".
I was like "what are you on?", I'm not scamming. I didnt realise!
We then ended up in a "conversation" for about an hour in that outpost talking about scamming and prices. The point I was trying to make, was that its not a scam to ask to buy an item for less then its worth. The reason being that aslong as both parties are happy with the price, its not a scam.
A scam is where you offer someone an item, and then sell them something else which isnt worth that price.
But my point here is that people are expected to know prices inside-and-out and not everyone does. But instead of saying "ill buy it for less" or "ill sell you it for more", you get "noob" or "cancelled".
Why is bartering never used?
I barter all the time when Im buying an item!
I've realised that the highest you can advertise an item for, and get interest is 15k. Any higher and no one listens. Even if you dont include a price when advertising and then ask for a slightly inflated cost, all you get is "cancelled".
The other isue is a complete lack of commmunication. Buyers wont give you a "no thank you" or "I cant afford that". They make you open trade, look at your item and then just walk off.
No pleasantry at all.
Example of trading....
I had a person advertise to buy a hammer in LA last night, and I wispered him to offer him the Bludgeoner. I asked what he could offer and he said 6k. I told him to come to storage and then he asked where I was. I said I was in LA - dis2 and waited.....
....then he finally wispers me and says he is in Ascalon city and told me to go there. So I go alll the way there, find him and open trade.
First off he opens trade and presses submit before I can even put my item in. That sends off alarm bells. As if he thinks im stupid enough to click accept and loose an item for free.
Then he puts an offer in and instead of the 6k, he offers a really crap axe. I say "you offered 6k in LA" and then he adds 2k to the table.
I posted "Mate, you offered me 6k and I came all the way here" and I get...
..."accept or goodbye". I told him to (in so many words) take a run and jump.
This is a small example of why trading is completely shot in GWs. Its the attitude of these people.
It made me laugh slightly because this warrior was lvl15, and im stood there with Guardian of Tyria. You would think he'd realise I have some experience and not to try it on.
Is it really too much to ask people to..
1) be polite.
2) barter.
3) communicate?
Maybe if trading was an enjoyable experience, because the other players were nice, then it would be so bad.
And dont make posts saying the trading is messed up because we need an AH. That has been said 100000 times and that entire thing has dried up now!
A re-occuring issue I find with trading! The main reason I cant stand it!
freekedoutfish
Omniclasm
The part about bartering is...in real life, if you are trying to buy a used car or something from a random guy, chances are that the car is not really in that high of supply. If you don't make the deal, then you are probably going to be without a car.
If someone is trying to buy junk on GW, and you are offering to much, why bother? The guy next to you is selling it cheaper.
Edit: For the record, I'm not one of the 11 yr olds that do that crap. I don't trade at all, because I end up getting annoyed by people.
If someone is trying to buy junk on GW, and you are offering to much, why bother? The guy next to you is selling it cheaper.
Edit: For the record, I'm not one of the 11 yr olds that do that crap. I don't trade at all, because I end up getting annoyed by people.
Avarre
I actually agree. Bartering would be more useful than an immediate yes or no.
Hyprodimus Prime
I barter, i give a friendly "lol" when we finally reach an agreement. Ive had my cases of "good luck noob" and I hate to say it but I do get offended by it. (thats why I like Ensign's little sig/comment)
Cebe
I hear you, and it annoys the hell out of me when people just don't get the trading system. Too many people in this game have set ideas on how much something should cost and will not fluctuate whether they are buying or selling.
I make it my purpose in life to teach fools how to barter for goods...although you still get the really stubborn ones who refuse to learn.
One other sort of trader who annoys me is the "I only accept leet prices" seller. The sort of person who spams "WTS White Non Max Bladed Shield for really leet price. Whisper Offer. No response = no deal". Best thing to do is ignore them completely...when they find out they never sell anything with that sort of advertising they might stop one day.
The Auction Section of GWG is the best place I've found for selling things...even though it's bang-your-head-off-a-desk SLOW....at least it gets the job done.
I make it my purpose in life to teach fools how to barter for goods...although you still get the really stubborn ones who refuse to learn.
One other sort of trader who annoys me is the "I only accept leet prices" seller. The sort of person who spams "WTS White Non Max Bladed Shield for really leet price. Whisper Offer. No response = no deal". Best thing to do is ignore them completely...when they find out they never sell anything with that sort of advertising they might stop one day.
The Auction Section of GWG is the best place I've found for selling things...even though it's bang-your-head-off-a-desk SLOW....at least it gets the job done.
arcanemacabre
This is a problem that will not find a resolution. It's best to accept it and adapt. In other words, when trading, only offer what you intend to pay, or give the price you intend to sell for. High-end items can still be bartered most of the time, but something worth anywhere from 1g-100k would be better off advertised at what you intend to sell it for.
I do wish it wasn't this way, it makes more sense for it to be as you describe, but here we are. When I trade, I'm always polite, even if the other person isn't, and I always converse with the person. That's something you can continue to do, screw what anyone else does. But the bartering is an issue it's best to adapt to. Otherwise it might seem rude to try and talk someone down from a price they have long "set in stone" and is fairly low-balled to begin with.
Example:
I had a +15/-1 inscription that is normally sold for 7k-15k, according to guru PC (and what I've seen others WTS at). I put up WTS for 5k, lower than the lowest, just to get it sold quicker. I have about 5, and within a few minutes I have people come up and offer me the 5k straight, fine. Then comes the bartering person, offering 3k. Now, why would I want to barter an already really low price? Of course I respond, "No, sorry, 5k each." Their offer seems rude to me, my dismissal seems rude to them.
You can't try to barter in a player-based trading system that isn't used to bartering. It can make everyone look bad, especially when both sides can't really know what's up with the other side. In my example above, chances are the person was an honest barterer, but to me it seemed like someone trying to get that item for as low as possible to just turn around and re-sell it for much higher. Not that there's anything terribly wrong with that, but it's also not a completely honest trade.
I do wish it wasn't this way, it makes more sense for it to be as you describe, but here we are. When I trade, I'm always polite, even if the other person isn't, and I always converse with the person. That's something you can continue to do, screw what anyone else does. But the bartering is an issue it's best to adapt to. Otherwise it might seem rude to try and talk someone down from a price they have long "set in stone" and is fairly low-balled to begin with.
Example:
I had a +15/-1 inscription that is normally sold for 7k-15k, according to guru PC (and what I've seen others WTS at). I put up WTS for 5k, lower than the lowest, just to get it sold quicker. I have about 5, and within a few minutes I have people come up and offer me the 5k straight, fine. Then comes the bartering person, offering 3k. Now, why would I want to barter an already really low price? Of course I respond, "No, sorry, 5k each." Their offer seems rude to me, my dismissal seems rude to them.
You can't try to barter in a player-based trading system that isn't used to bartering. It can make everyone look bad, especially when both sides can't really know what's up with the other side. In my example above, chances are the person was an honest barterer, but to me it seemed like someone trying to get that item for as low as possible to just turn around and re-sell it for much higher. Not that there's anything terribly wrong with that, but it's also not a completely honest trade.
Vagrant
The problem we have is that we're dealing with a lot of younger people (Like, 13 years old and younger), who have no fricking idea what the hell "bartering" even remotely means. These kids don't realize that prices AREN'T SET IN STONE. They vary based on supply and demand, as well as the negotiated price in a barter.
You get a rough estimate of the price by what you might expect the price to be. But then, the rest is negotiation, which is bartering, plain and simple. I've had some very tough barters before -- some people are good at buying/selling. But I could feel satisfied with the price I was getting.
But what I see so often:
"How much?"
"13k"
"Hmm... I can't really afford that... how about 10k?"
"13k, take it or leave it."
"... I guess I'll leave it."
The main problem is people don't understand the idea of negotiation in a bartering situation.
You get a rough estimate of the price by what you might expect the price to be. But then, the rest is negotiation, which is bartering, plain and simple. I've had some very tough barters before -- some people are good at buying/selling. But I could feel satisfied with the price I was getting.
But what I see so often:
"How much?"
"13k"
"Hmm... I can't really afford that... how about 10k?"
"13k, take it or leave it."
"... I guess I'll leave it."
The main problem is people don't understand the idea of negotiation in a bartering situation.
Milennin
I usually don't bother with barterers, unless they show they can be polite and typ without using chatspeak.
Since I often sell my items a bit lower than the prices in price checks I don't feel there's any need for bartering about my prices.=\
Since I often sell my items a bit lower than the prices in price checks I don't feel there's any need for bartering about my prices.=\
Etta
Yeah I agree, if i have anything worth a high price I just use an auction here. Selling in game is just pain in the bum.
mr_groovy
I allways barter when I buy stuff in game. Depends on the item, but I usually offer 1-3K less then the seller wants to have on items. These are items that go up to 20k. And usually I get a discount to0 ^^. People mostly allways ask a to high price, and even if they are offering it at a low price, for a few k less they will still sell it ^^.
When I sell my items I rather sell them at a few K less, then not at all. But then again I mostly only sell on guru where I don't have to get bartered on.
I do hate it when people are trying to barter with you, after they b/o it on guru. Price on guru == Price in game to pay not less
When I sell my items I rather sell them at a few K less, then not at all. But then again I mostly only sell on guru where I don't have to get bartered on.
I do hate it when people are trying to barter with you, after they b/o it on guru. Price on guru == Price in game to pay not less
freekedoutfish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
I had a +15/-1 inscription that is normally sold for 7k-15k, according to guru PC (and what I've seen others WTS at). I put up WTS for 5k, lower than the lowest, just to get it sold quicker. I have about 5, and within a few minutes I have people come up and offer me the 5k straight, fine. Then comes the bartering person, offering 3k. Now, why would I want to barter an already really low price? Of course I respond, "No, sorry, 5k each." Their offer seems rude to me, my dismissal seems rude to them.
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If its just a cheap item, then I dont mind just giving it away for 5-10k!
For instance I have a perfect dagger and bow (all perfect mods and low reqirement), which you would expect to sell well. I have advertised these for anything from 30k to 20k to 15k, and people either dont take interest, or they look at them and just walk off without a word.
I personally think their decent weapons and nice skins, so I cant understand it. I might be asking a bit more for them, but they are good. But people can still barter my price down if they dont have enough.
It just annoys me so much when people are like "ha, thats not worth that much, are you joking" and walk off. Does it hurt to say "I'll give you [enter value] instead"!?
=DNC=Trucker
I hear you. A week or so ago I decided to sell a few gems in DOA. I don't remember which (torment/margonite), but I advertised selling each 3k. Now excuse me for not visiting and watching trade in DOA within the last day, but apparantly the price was 2k and not 3k!! Wow, I got a lash of 3-4 people calling me NOOB! NOOB! they are worth 2k! I just had to laugh at how sheepish some people can be.
DFrost
To me trading is the most annoying activity in-game. If I find something that is of high value, I always auction it. Low starting bid guarantees that I'll at least get if out of my hands, a higher buyout price gives someone possibility to get the item right away if he really wants it. Everything else I just sell to merchant or put in a stash until I or someone I know has use for it. I just hate WTS/WTB, many of the reasons for it were well said in the OP.
Riot Narita
Quote:
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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
Why is bartering never used?
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When I sell, I advertise at a low price... that way I sell within moments, and can quickly get back to the enjoyable parts of GW. The time I save by doing this, is worth more to me than the extra gold I might have got (if I was prepared to spend forever getting a "good" price and/or bartering).
If people want to barter, I refuse - I'm already selling at knock-down prices, so I don't need to waste time bartering... another buyer will be along in a few seconds to snap up the bargain.
When I buy, I look for any reasonable "WTS" price, or offer a generous "WTB". No bartering, again to minimise time spent on trade.
Mr. G
Oh no you wasnt arguing with me in vabbi right >< I once stood there for 2 hours attacking scammers - But i mean real scammers, I wisp hem to make sure they know prices and blah blah blah
Ive gotta say i was seriousl shocked when te community turned agaisnt me for trying to stop these people cheating others
Ive gotta say i was seriousl shocked when te community turned agaisnt me for trying to stop these people cheating others
The Defiled Knight
This guy is absoloutley right trading system is pretty messed up in this game. Not sure how to fix it though.
bilateralrope
I've also experienced what you describe, which is why the only trading I do is via guru auctions or the guild trading forum. So I'm bookmarking this thread as just another reason we need a better trading system. Though most of the time I just make do with what I find / buy from traders.
freekedoutfish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hissy
In my case, I don't barter because trading is already a deeply unpleasant and tedious experience for me, and I don't want to prolong it any longer than I have to....
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I've nothing else to do, expect stuff that cost gold = me spending hours trading and not enjoying it.
I'm needing around 100k total to get my next set of Vabbian armor, because I just feel like a change. But I cant shift half the stuff I have, despite some of it being decent.
I could probably make about 60-80k in just a few minutes if they sold at 15k each. But no one bites, or they winge Im asking too much or refuse to barter.
Or you get newbie players asking to buy decent gear for 4k.
I dont blame Anet, I blame the attitude of players not being able to trade politely and/or having this arrogant attitude where they think they know what an item should cost.
You either meet that amount or your a noob as far as their concerned. Who sets values? are they written in stone? An item is worth the value that someone is willing to pay - simple.
I wish I could avoid trading, because the only other alternative is to continue spending hours in outposts trying to find none-existant HM pugs, or put the game away until GW:EN comes out. But id rather not do either.
Winterclaw
Spending 5 minutes haggling down someone 1K is a lot cheaper than waiting an hour to find someone who's offering it 2k cheaper.
*Winterclaw has had occasional luck, but not too much, finding people to haggle as a buyer and a seller.
*Winterclaw has had occasional luck, but not too much, finding people to haggle as a buyer and a seller.
arcanemacabre
Quote:
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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
For instance I have a perfect dagger and bow (all perfect mods and low reqirement), which you would expect to sell well. I have advertised these for anything from 30k to 20k to 15k, and people either dont take interest, or they look at them and just walk off without a word.
I personally think their decent weapons and nice skins, so I cant understand it. I might be asking a bit more for them, but they are good. But people can still barter my price down if they dont have enough. It just annoys me so much when people are like "ha, thats not worth that much, are you joking" and walk off. Does it hurt to say "I'll give you [enter value] instead"!? |
Good story: I had a really nice sword, low req with great mods, and the skin was PC'd at 30-50k. Again, to sell it fast, I slap a pricetag of 15k on it. I had a really interested buyer check it out, including wanting me to "model" it out in a zone (they weren't "up to anything", they just wanted to see the skin on my char). They offered 10k, and I counter-offered 12k, and it was a deal.
I don't mind bartering items like that at all, as long as they are nice about it, like Milennin said. I don't like when people try to seriously undercut the already low price almost instantly. I also don't like when people assume they're going to get a mad discount because they're buying multiples. Like if your selling lockpicks for 1,250 each, and you have 10, instead of offering 12,500 for all ten, they'll slap 10-12k in the trade window.
Eh, there's just a lot of trade faux pas going on in this game, no doubt. I have noticed that sometimes people "fake trade" in order to get a PC on an item. By this, I mean they'll look for someone selling an item they may also have, or advertise WTB a certain item they have (like a green), and find out what people are actually selling these items for. That may be what's going on with the people who don't talk and just close the trade window and leave after you give them a price. Something to consider...
freekedoutfish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Mr. G
Oh no you wasnt arguing with me in vabbi right >< I once stood there for 2 hours attacking scammers - But i mean real scammers, I wisp hem to make sure they know prices and blah blah blah
Ive gotta say i was seriousl shocked when te community turned agaisnt me for trying to stop these people cheating others |
I guess it depends how you go about attacking (what you consider) scammers. As my example shows, not all people who ask for wrong prices are scammers.
I was asking to buy TC for 100g, without knowing they are worth 700g and an entire "conversation"/"arguement" errupted in an outpost over it.
But its only scamming if someone offers to sell an item, but then sells you something else. Especialy if they ask for a high price, more then its worth.
Its not really scamming if you ask for too low or too high a price for an item, because an item is only worth what the buyer is willing to pay. Your not decieving them because the only set prices are those at traders.
There are no set prices on weapons or mods.
So it all depends on what you consider scamming. If you start saying "dont trade with [enter name] because he scams" and he wasnt, then thats out of line.
But he was, then go ahead.
Miral
you know what really grates me?
we have two people, A and B.
A: SELLING GREENAXE3
B: how much?
A: offer
B: 10k?
A: lol noob its worth way more than that
B: ok how much?
A: make a serious offer ktnx
B: Why don't you just tell me how much you want for it?
A: stfu n00b
we have two people, A and B.
A: SELLING GREENAXE3
B: how much?
A: offer
B: 10k?
A: lol noob its worth way more than that
B: ok how much?
A: make a serious offer ktnx
B: Why don't you just tell me how much you want for it?
A: stfu n00b
Iuris
I hate bartering in real life as much as I do in online games. Mostly, it's just about the seller's feeling for how much he can overcharge the other guy.
If I want to sell something, I say how much up front. If I want to buy, I want to know how much I'm expected to pay.
If I want to sell something, I say how much up front. If I want to buy, I want to know how much I'm expected to pay.
hallomik
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Common_scams
According to GuildWiki, you were scamming.
Quote:
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Item Scams Main Article: Item scams (a more detailed listing of the item scams summarized here) Many scams involve trading or manipulating items in various ways. Keep the following things in mind: Lately there has been a lot of attempts to sell Black Dye and Glob of Ectoplasm above trader price. Due to the fact that both items have dropped considerably in price. And not all players check trader price. The Mini Asura is being given away free with the May 2007 issue of PC Gamer and other magazines around the world. Minipets do NOT come from Wintersday Gifts or Winter Gifts. Minipets come from Birthday Presents and other non-gift sources. You cannot wear another player's armor, ever. You cannot use an item customized for another player, ever. You cannot un-customize or customize over armor and weapons, ever. With the introduction of the festival hat maker players have the ability to craft multiple hats. All Festival Hats are customized. You cannot use the festival hat maker to make yourself a hat using another player's hat. Do not buy unidentified items unless you have read the main item scam article. Before buying a quest item, always look it up on GuildWiki first and make sure that item can in fact be bought and used to complete the quest. Before buying dye, read the main article. Monastery Credits and Battle Commendations are worth at least 100 . Imperial Commendations, Equipment Requisitions, Luxon Totems, Kournan Coins, Ancient Artifacts and Inscribed Secrets are worth at least 200 . If you sell them for less, you are cheating yourself. 7 Trade Contracts can be traded for a Ruby, Diamond or Sapphire. Always check the Rare Material Trader for jewel prices before selling your contracts. Gray dye is sold at the merchant for 50 . It is also the standard color of newly crafted armor. It is not subject to the usual trader supply and demand prices. There is currently no known use for Diamonds. Always check the sell price of an item at the merchant before trading. People will sometimes try to buy for less. Beware of people advertising "collectible" or "rare" items (not Collectors items). Often the items may simply come from an expansion other than the one they are being advertised in. This scam can involve two scammers: one advertises selling a fake "collectible" or "rare" item, the other advertises buying it a much higher price. Do not be tempted into being the middleman! Check up on the item on GuildWiki or with your guild/alliance mates first. |
arcanemacabre
As far as trade contracts go, yeah, you were definitely undercutting the ignorant if you're trying to buy them for 100g. It's wrong if you knew that they were 7 for a gem, and you knew what gems go for at the time. It's obvious the TCs have a value of 7/value of the highest gem. Value being between the buy and sell of the Material Trader's rates, just like Ecto. The prices of TCs are definitely set in stone, unless you are ignorant of the trade for gems.
So either you didn't know (which you claimed that you did know), or you're abusing the ignorance of others. May not be labeled "scam", but it's pretty rotten practice.
So either you didn't know (which you claimed that you did know), or you're abusing the ignorance of others. May not be labeled "scam", but it's pretty rotten practice.
klrk
i've seen a lot of these noobs , stubborn heads and impolite players especially when i sold my ids (i used to farm a lot)
Doomus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
*snip*
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Brian: How much do you want for this beard?
Merchant: This? Ohh..er.. 20 sheckels.
B: Here you are.
M: What?
B: Here you are!
M: Wait... don't you want to haggle?
B: What?
M: Look, at that, that's not worth 20 sheckels!
B: I'm in a hurry, can't you just give it to me?!
M: 'Ere, Bert, this bloke won't haggle!
Bert: Won't haggle!?
B: Allright..er.. 19?
M: Dear oh dear....
Etc...
Sarevok Thordin
I NEVER barter/haggle because it's just a waste of time and you need to deal with cocky people who'll mock you.
Nikki Moonlight
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miral
you know what really grates me?
we have two people, A and B. A: SELLING GREENAXE3 B: how much? A: offer B: 10k? A: lol noob its worth way more than that B: ok how much? A: make a serious offer ktnx B: Why don't you just tell me how much you want for it? A: stfu n00b |
freekedoutfish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by hallomik
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by arcanemacabre
As far as trade contracts go, yeah, you were definitely undercutting the ignorant if you're trying to buy them for 100g. It's wrong if you knew that they were 7 for a gem, and you knew what gems go for at the time. It's obvious the TCs have a value of 7/value of the highest gem. Value being between the buy and sell of the Material Trader's rates, just like Ecto. The prices of TCs are definitely set in stone, unless you are ignorant of the trade for gems.
So either you didn't know (which you claimed that you did know), or you're abusing the ignorance of others. May not be labeled "scam", but it's pretty rotten practice. |
It pushed the cost of them up. But why is that bad?
Because trade contracts dont just get you rubis and saphires. They also get salvage kits, ident kits, dye remover and bags, etc etc.
Some of which are far cheaper then 700g. Anet in essence has created its own scam. Your fundimentally charging someone 700g for a TC that could be exchanged for an item that could cost no more then 50g.
Going by Anets own discription... (as quoted by hallomik)... that would be defined as a scam, because your charging someone more for an item that its worth (example the Black Dye scam as mention in the quote).
Its a paradox and Anet created it. You cant charge a price, based on the most expensive item that it can be exchanged for. The reason being that its far worse to over-charge someone, then it is to under-charge them.
But the quote which hallomik, would mean that scamming is very easily done without even realising. Unless you have an extensive knowledge of every ingame price, then you could be defined as a scammer if you over-charge or under-charge.
But how do you decide whether someone knew the market price or didnt before hand?
And for the record I didnt say I knew the price of Trade Contracts when I started trading. I said I assumed 100g was alot, and was then (not very politely) told otherwise. [b]Now[b] I know their worth 700g, but for the reasons I stated above I think its hugely-mistaken to use TCs to exchange for rare materials.
As I said, Anet is fundimentally creating its own scam by making you pay higher prices for a token that can be exchanged for a much cheaper item.
Note: I realise there is the arguement that you could buy a bag or dye remover with just gold anyway, because their cheap.
But that is besides the point. You might find yourself skint and needing a TC to get a bag and assuming you could buy one for 25g from a player, because a bag is only worth about 50g.
You then post "WTB trade contract for 50g" without realising, and people start laughing at you and/or assume your scamming. Your then stuffed because you cant afford the 700g just for one bag or dye remover, or some other cheaper object.
I realise its very unlikely you would want to buy a bag, or dye remover or such items at that stage in the game. But still!! You might have a newbie player who doesnt know better.
How is that not scamming to charge 700g for a token that can be exchanged for an item cheaper then 700g?
Clever Anet!!!
Srry is My Trademark
I rekon get rid of Price checks they reduce bartering and defeat the purpose of trading ingame.
Mr. G
Meh my major point in the kodash is that if people want to pay 100g for a contract there welcome to, but if people take advantage of the ignorant (read IGNORANT not STUPID) i find something wrong with that, especially if the buyer is a bot (dam you guru and your lack of names...)
onerabbit
Hate this so much
i remember wen i was selling a 20/20 bow string ingame for 3k
i had 7 sold about in 2 seconds.
and then1 guy was like, omg u noob, learn ur prices, 2k no more.
i just happily lol'd and ignore.
the market value was 8-10k at this time.
i remember wen i was selling a 20/20 bow string ingame for 3k
i had 7 sold about in 2 seconds.
and then1 guy was like, omg u noob, learn ur prices, 2k no more.
i just happily lol'd and ignore.
the market value was 8-10k at this time.
freekedoutfish
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Doomus
Your whole post just made me think of The Life of Brian...
Brian: How much do you want for this beard? Merchant: This? Ohh..er.. 20 sheckels. B: Here you are. M: What? B: Here you are! M: Wait... don't you want to haggle? B: What? M: Look, at that, that's not worth 20 sheckels! B: I'm in a hurry, can't you just give it to me?! M: 'Ere, Bert, this bloke won't haggle! Bert: Won't haggle!? B: Allright..er.. 19? M: Dear oh dear.... Etc... |
They'l never get old.
Big_Iron
I hate trading these days for most of the reasons already stated here. I have a crap-load of golds in greens in storage that I don't need, just because I hate trading so much now. I'll even give stuff away to guildies sometimes just to clean up storage. I keep telling myself I should just offer to sell it all here on Guru, but I just haven't gotten around to it.
My Green Storage
As mentioned, sellers are trying to overcharge and hope for someone that doesn't know/care about the price.
The buyer is trying to lowball and hope for someone that doesn't know/care.
Since most items already have a "fixed" price and they don't change too often unless more are brought into the game, then all you will get are prices set in stone.
Me, I always sell lower then what I see.
If someone says "I'll give you ____" I always PM, "Sorry, but XXX Price is lower then what others are selling it for."
And 8/10 times I'm successful.
Now for those other 2/10 times. I get the "I'll buy it" .... open trade with em .... I see items being placed, I'm thinking, God damn it, I want money you bitch, don't say you want to buy it when you really want to trade.
Or the "Selling such and such for 5k!!"
"I'll give you 2k"
"Sorry 5k"
"No Thanks"
GG, lowball me on a measely 5k item that I probably ALREADY lowered the going price on.
Also too many people that do what Miral has listed.
&$^$^%___SELLING ---------------- !!!!!!!!!!! #$% PM!!!!!! &$%^&$&
How much you want for it?
Offer!
Give me a price of what you're looking for
Offer.
........and that's where it ends.
Cuz if he doesn't know how much he wants, then I sure as hell don't know.
Yea, prices are basically set in stone so there is no real way to barter.
A buyer usually won't pay what you're looking for and a seller usually won't go too low on what he wants to sell.
The buyer is trying to lowball and hope for someone that doesn't know/care.
Since most items already have a "fixed" price and they don't change too often unless more are brought into the game, then all you will get are prices set in stone.
Me, I always sell lower then what I see.
If someone says "I'll give you ____" I always PM, "Sorry, but XXX Price is lower then what others are selling it for."
And 8/10 times I'm successful.
Now for those other 2/10 times. I get the "I'll buy it" .... open trade with em .... I see items being placed, I'm thinking, God damn it, I want money you bitch, don't say you want to buy it when you really want to trade.
Or the "Selling such and such for 5k!!"
"I'll give you 2k"
"Sorry 5k"
"No Thanks"
GG, lowball me on a measely 5k item that I probably ALREADY lowered the going price on.
Also too many people that do what Miral has listed.
&$^$^%___SELLING ---------------- !!!!!!!!!!! #$% PM!!!!!! &$%^&$&
How much you want for it?
Offer!
Give me a price of what you're looking for
Offer.
........and that's where it ends.
Cuz if he doesn't know how much he wants, then I sure as hell don't know.
Yea, prices are basically set in stone so there is no real way to barter.
A buyer usually won't pay what you're looking for and a seller usually won't go too low on what he wants to sell.
lyra_song
Coming from REAL batering (i go to the farmer's market a lot), i know how to haggle.
A lot of in game traders have no concept of bartering, or politeness, or common sense.
A lot of in game traders have no concept of bartering, or politeness, or common sense.
korcan
trading in-game requires thick skin. ive been trading for a while now and at first it was an unusual/unpleasant experience but after a while u get used to the majority of rude and ignorant people.
the first rule of trading is KNOW YOUR PRICES. if you have no idea what an item is worth, post it in the price check section of the forums as most price checkers here have decent knowledge of item pricing. every other price guide on these forums is either outdated or just plain wrong. so if youre getting flamed for trying to sell items for inflated prices, thats entirely your fault.
on a side note, people in game that try advertising their wares with "WTS XXX ITEM 25k [guru price is 50k] SO IM SELLING IT CHEAP!" make me lol. also, most people that want you to offer a price for their items are hoping you have no idea that its worthless and hope you offer some obscene amount of money for it. so my advice is to stay clear of people who want "offers" for their wares, especially if you dont know what the item is really worth.
i only sell items that tend to be "sought after" as theyre much easier to sell and at reduced prices to boot
. the rest of my items, especially nf items, go straight to the merchant because its not worth my time spamming countless hours for something that may or may not sell for 1-5k. most low req. nf items are worthless too so those go straight to the merchant as well.
if you spam an item for an inflated price to start, the likelyhood of anyone showing interest is, well, low. id suggest that if you want to reduce the time you spend selling in-game, lower your prices.
here are a couple of common scenarios that ive encountered while trading.
scenario #1 [the window shopper]
me: wts xxx item 45k, no trades
john doe: may i see?
me: sure
john doe: how much? [the window shopper always asks how much eventhough you have clearly stated the price in your spam advert]
me: 45k
john doe: nty
from my experiences, if someone asks to see your item, the chances of a sale decrease significantly. i usually dont even respond to people who ask to see an item im selling.
scenario #2 [a potential buyer]
me: wts xxx item 45k, no trades
john doe: 35k?
me: 40k
john doe: ok
the majority of potential buyers already know what the item skin looks like and most tend to count-offer or just plain message you with a "ill buy" or variation of.
and a word of advise to people trying to buy items in-game. from what ive seen, 98% of ALL items that people spam in-game are over-priced.
the first rule of trading is KNOW YOUR PRICES. if you have no idea what an item is worth, post it in the price check section of the forums as most price checkers here have decent knowledge of item pricing. every other price guide on these forums is either outdated or just plain wrong. so if youre getting flamed for trying to sell items for inflated prices, thats entirely your fault.
on a side note, people in game that try advertising their wares with "WTS XXX ITEM 25k [guru price is 50k] SO IM SELLING IT CHEAP!" make me lol. also, most people that want you to offer a price for their items are hoping you have no idea that its worthless and hope you offer some obscene amount of money for it. so my advice is to stay clear of people who want "offers" for their wares, especially if you dont know what the item is really worth.
i only sell items that tend to be "sought after" as theyre much easier to sell and at reduced prices to boot
if you spam an item for an inflated price to start, the likelyhood of anyone showing interest is, well, low. id suggest that if you want to reduce the time you spend selling in-game, lower your prices.
here are a couple of common scenarios that ive encountered while trading.
scenario #1 [the window shopper]
me: wts xxx item 45k, no trades
john doe: may i see?
me: sure
john doe: how much? [the window shopper always asks how much eventhough you have clearly stated the price in your spam advert]
me: 45k
john doe: nty
from my experiences, if someone asks to see your item, the chances of a sale decrease significantly. i usually dont even respond to people who ask to see an item im selling.
scenario #2 [a potential buyer]
me: wts xxx item 45k, no trades
john doe: 35k?
me: 40k
john doe: ok
the majority of potential buyers already know what the item skin looks like and most tend to count-offer or just plain message you with a "ill buy" or variation of.
and a word of advise to people trying to buy items in-game. from what ive seen, 98% of ALL items that people spam in-game are over-priced.
amish lifeguard
Quote:
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Originally Posted by freekedoutfish
This isnt a thread being anti-Anet and suggesting we need a AH to sort out trading. Its a thread concerning the attitude of traders.
I've found during the few times I've ever managed to trade, that people ingame dont actually trade in the traditional sense. Traditional trading to me involves this process.... 1) You adverstise an item for higher then its sell value. 2) Someone takes interest and views the item. 3) They ask what price you want. 4) You ask for an inflated price.. [here is where it changes. Traditional trading would go like this] 5) The buyer barters the price down, and offers a lower price. 6) You barter back and ask for a bit more. 7) You eventually come to a settled price and everyones happy. Now this isnt how it happens in GWs. In GWs it goes like this... 1) You adverstise an item for higher then its sell value. 2) Someone takes interest and views the item. 3) They ask what price you want. 4) You ask for an inflated price. [here is where it changes. In reality it goes like this] 5) The person says "Ha noob, grow up, its not worth that" or 5) The person says "I cant afford that" 6) Trade cancelled! My point is why? Is bartering a taboo? Do people understand the concept of trade? The issue with this, is that unless you know the exact price for an item, you wont sell anything. People just refuse to even take notice if you post an inflated price. You're expected to know the exact price of the item your selling, or your a noob, your insulted or your called a scammer! But not everyone is a hardcore trader and knows prices inside and out. Example of the attitude... I had an experience in NightFall where I had no idea what the price of Trade Contracts were, because I had never bought them before. However I knew they are used for Rubis, so I was asking to buy them (for what I thought was a high price) of 100g each. I soon noticed someone in that outpost was posting "Dont sell to Freekedoutfish hes a scammer, TC are worth 700g". I was like "what are you on?", I'm not scamming. I didnt realise! We then ended up in a "conversation" for about an hour in that outpost talking about scamming and prices. The point I was trying to make, was that its not a scam to ask to buy an item for less then its worth. The reason being that aslong as both parties are happy with the price, its not a scam. A scam is where you offer someone an item, and then sell them something else which isnt worth that price. But my point here is that people are expected to know prices inside-and-out and not everyone does. But instead of saying "ill buy it for less" or "ill sell you it for more", you get "noob" or "cancelled". Why is bartering never used? I barter all the time when Im buying an item! I've realised that the highest you can advertise an item for, and get interest is 15k. Any higher and no one listens. Even if you dont include a price when advertising and then ask for a slightly inflated cost, all you get is "cancelled". The other isue is a complete lack of commmunication. Buyers wont give you a "no thank you" or "I cant afford that". They make you open trade, look at your item and then just walk off. No pleasantry at all. Example of trading.... I had a person advertise to buy a hammer in LA last night, and I wispered him to offer him the Bludgeoner. I asked what he could offer and he said 6k. I told him to come to storage and then he asked where I was. I said I was in LA - dis2 and waited..... ....then he finally wispers me and says he is in Ascalon city and told me to go there. So I go alll the way there, find him and open trade. First off he opens trade and presses submit before I can even put my item in. That sends off alarm bells. As if he thinks im stupid enough to click accept and loose an item for free. Then he puts an offer in and instead of the 6k, he offers a really crap axe. I say "you offered 6k in LA" and then he adds 2k to the table. I posted "Mate, you offered me 6k and I came all the way here" and I get... ..."accept or goodbye". I told him to (in so many words) take a run and jump. This is a small example of why trading is completely shot in GWs. Its the attitude of these people. It made me laugh slightly because this warrior was lvl15, and im stood there with Guardian of Tyria. You would think he'd realise I have some experience and not to try it on. Is it really too much to ask people to.. 1) be polite. 2) barter. 3) communicate? Maybe if trading was an enjoyable experience, because the other players were nice, then it would be so bad. And dont make posts saying the trading is messed up because we need an AH. That has been said 100000 times and that entire thing has dried up now! |
Diddy bow
What annoys me is you say "WTS so and so 10K"
and someone whispers "how much"
... learn to read please, the ammount of people who do this is just silly
and someone whispers "how much"
... learn to read please, the ammount of people who do this is just silly