A re-occuring issue I find with trading! The main reason I cant stand it!

I bought a really nice scythe the other day on a whim. It was gold, had nice mods but rather high req. All I did was a WTB (in Trade channel) once and got an answer in just a couple minutes. Viewed the scythe, asked how much he wanted for it. He said, "I dunno. 5K?" I said "Make it 4K and you have a deal." "Done !" was the reply. Decent lower end barter, both parties happy. Win-win. I have no patience for those individuals who tell you to make an offer then turn down that offer because it doesn't magically meet some pre-ordained yet hidden reserve only they know.

The problem with trade contracts is that their value varies wildly from ~500g to over 1K depending on the day's price for the jewels. If you're buying saphires, it's closer to 500g usually. (Couple days ago, I believe it was closer to 457g.) But if you're trading for rubies, the relative price of those contracts goes to 1K or higher. Same trade contract, you're still trading in the same number for either jewel. And their value differs if you're trading them for ID kits, keys, etc. All in all, the only sensible trade-in would be the rubies since that gives you your highest market value at present.

BUT if for some reason you didn't know that.......

~Falcon

No demand is the problem, there is no genuine desire for any items, so they can screw around with buyers as much as they want. You can thank greens and other things for this.

A lot of good points in the topic, but there really used to be a lot more bartering. I think there is less now because the economy has tanked and neither side of a transaction has much room to negotiate.

I have to sell things usually under sale value, usually at or under 50% Guru for greens, just to get a sale in a reasonable amount of time. I spent a couple hours yesterday during peak hours trying to sell a Nightbringer - at 10k - and couldnt. On the other side, as a result of a similar dynamic, no one has money to spend.

Point being simply, its the economic troubles that are making people inflexible in sales rather than some social dynamic.

Well, freekedoutfish, what can i say...? Not all ppl want to haggle. We all have families you know, and when i say families i mean 5+ chars. And the thing that bugs me the most is the attitude of GW traders, everyone thinks that his goods are somehow more valuable then others, and therefore should be sold to highest price possible, even if some poor guys can barely afford it. On the other hand, everyone refuses to pay even 500 gp more when buying (i.e. Me: "WTS Black dye, 5.8K, it's 6.5K at trader" Customer: "5.5K, ok?") Is it so fu*king hard to just pay the price? Will you lost all your chars if you just pay the asked price? I am really sick of that. Respect other's ppl time. At least thats what I do. I set the price that doesn't need haggling from very start, so i can sell it without negotiation and get back to more important things. I don't see any point in haggling. Just set realistic price and accept first reasonable offer. Don't waste both yours and other ppl's time with senseless arguing over few K's

This is the exact issue people are talking about here...people LIKE YOU...do not have the common decency to spend a few minutes to find a price both sides will like. Just because you set a price...doesn't mean that's the only price for that item. Buyers naturally want to pay less...Sellers naturally want to get more. You're just an asshat for not considering the other person's position...it's all about ME ME ME. Grow the hell up.

personally...I haggle...If I'm selling I advertise a price that I would like to get but is really a few k higher than what I expect to get. I expect people to haggle. If I'm buying I usually offer slightly lower to see what I can get...sometimes people will haggle...sometimes people will say a simple "nty" (which I don't mind...at least they responded)...sometimes people just ignore what you said completely and you don't hear from them again.

It's all about respect for your fellow player...someone who is willing to haggle is showing respect for your concerns in the game...you should do the same. Or at least say "no haggling" when you put up your WTB/WTS or at the VERY LEAST respond with a "nty" when someone tries to haggle with you.

Fish, the problem isn't with the barter or the haggle side solely.

A spams: \/\/ T S (its in local u see, just a little joke) <Item 1> 'godly' req 9 100k+ecto

Buyer B PMs: I'll give you 100k for it

A CAPS: LOLAWLLAWNMOWER nOOB Ceck Guru, its 100k+ ecto!!!111!!!!
A goes back to spamming

B goes off to buy from someone else for closer to original price or farms said item himself.

Observer C then spends time getting item 1 to sell for 100k+ twice as many ecto, because A is still spamming said item.

Solution: Get rid of the one price eliteism in traders, equally rid the game of the fixed priced traders....
Or just don't bother with those two groups go for the trader offering a reasonable price in trade, who actually talks.

agreed, the attitude of players doesn't help the trade system at all.

like many people, i sell cheap in order to get a quick sale on most items. if most people are selling something for 10k, i'll advertise for 5k. there's always a jerk or two who wants it even cheaper than that and offer me 2k like they're doing me a favor. bartering is fine and good, but i've found that too often people offer less than half of the asking price, which is just rude, especially on an already marked-down price. bartering != half price.

the sell threads/auctions here at guru aren't much better. just because someone bids 5k on a 80k item doesn't mean they're actually going to get it.

i also blame the completely tanked state of the in-game economy. i'm going for legendary skill hunter and i'm not amused that the prices of skills wasn't lowered to compensate for the crap economy.

lag ftw 12 characters

Fish, I gotta agree with you on the trade situation. I hate trading. Like Woody, I have a storage locker full of golds that are too good to merch, but not good enough to move quickly in trade chat.

I got lucky a few weeks ago and a nice Elemental Sword dropped for me. I knew it was valuable, but had no clue on the exact value so I headed here and had it price checked. I got 2 replies. The first said 100k + 30-50e. The 2nd said 100k + 10-20e and I noticed later that the sticky agreed with that estimate.

I spent about an hour in Kaineng trying to sell. I listed it at 100+25e, a little high, but I had the same theory as Fish (room to haggle down). This was a nightmare. The hour went something like this.....

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword <insert stats here>.....100k +25e
Player 1: Can I see?
<shows sword in trade>
Player 1: Nice, I'll trade you a max bow for it.
Me: no thx. cash only.

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword <insert stats here>.....100k +25e
Player 2: I'll give you a mini hydra + 10k
Me: no thx. cash only.

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword <insert stats here>.....100k +25e
Player 3: Let me see
Player 3: How much?
Player 3: I have a Req 13 Chaos Axe I'll trade for it.
Me: no thx. cash only.
Player 3: Plz, plz, I'll add a purple bow too.
Me: no thx.

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword <insert stats here>.....100k +25e
Player 4: I have a shadow blade I'll trade ya.
Me: no thx, cash only.

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword ....100k +25e CASH ONLY!!!
Player 5: how much?
Me: 100k + 25e
Player 5: I'll trade you a thorn wolf + 20k for it.
(hmm, I was actually tempted here, but I'm not sure of the 2nd year prices)
Me: no thx, cash only.

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword ....100k +25e CASH ONLY!!
Player 6: Do you accept trades?
Me: nope
Player 6: plz, just open trade. i have a nice FDS!

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword ....100k +25e CASH ONLY!!
Player 7: <opens trade> <inserts Icy Falchion>
Me: cash only, no trades.
Player 7: Just hit accept. It's worth the same price, you noob.
Me: cash only, no trades. <closes trade>
(maybe it is worth the same price, but I have no idea if that's true or not)

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword ....100k +25e CASH ONLY!!
Player 8: Will you sell it for 15k
(I don't think I even bothered to answer him)

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword ....100k +25e CASH ONLY!!
Player 9: I have a blade axe. Great stats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll trade for it.
Me: cash only.
Player 9: how much then
Me: 100k + 25e
Player 9: no thx.

I must have had at least 50 offers on this sword. ALL TRADES! Not 1 person offered me gold for the sword. (No, I'm not counting the 15k offer) I would have loved to make 25e on the deal, but I'm realistic too. If someone had counter offered another price in the ballpark I would have happily accepted.

I finally gave up and placed the sword here in the sell forum. It sold quickly for 100k + 11e to a very nice and polite player.


On another note, Fish, I mean no offense, but if I had seen you in Kodash Bazaar trying to buy trade contracts for 100g I would have assumed you were a scammer as well. In your case it was innocent ignorance of the going rate but for everyone like you there are 10 more "WTB'ers" who are just trying to scam trade contracts off new players who have no idea what they can sell them for.

Think of it this way. You said you didn't know what they were worth. If you had a couple on you and someone in the bazaar offered you 200g each for them you probably would have sold. Later when you discovered their worth you would have felt scammed.

Gotta agree with Raven...for every person who doesn't know how much an item is actually worth when trying to buy them...there's 10 more that know exactly what they are worth...and are trying to take advantage of people that aren't in the know. You could have gone to see how much the trade contracts were going for then divided by 7 (this is how many it takes to get 1 gem)...but you didn't even though you knew they could be traded in for gems...and that's why you got called on it...people assumed you were a scammer.

People not willing to do their homework when trying to buy up items that have a market price that can be determined by going to a merchant deserve to get called on it just like all the scammers out there. It's not like trying to sell some rare weapon whose price is determined by the market and the only place you can get an idea of how much it's worth is by coming to Guru or checking out auction sites.

Another thing that bugs me is the guilds that can take advantage of the discount merchants to sell lockpicks (buying them for 1.2k, selling them for 1.3k...0.2k lower than people can normally buy them from merchants). I'm convinced it's making those guilds incredibly wealthy...skewing the economy even more. No one should have an advantage like that.

I've had this a lot, and I usually barter. I tend to start from a sum which is below what people usually are asking but a sum which still contains some air for bartering.

The thing is, people seem to be mortified of giving a starting price. No matter if they are selling or buying, they always ask you - which is kind of weird especially if they are selling. I reckon the reason is that they have certain image of what they want (Guru price guide or something) and hope that the other guy will offer lots more than the supposed worth.

But let's say someone is selling item X. This is how it usually goes:

"WTS Blahblah"
"How much for Blahblah?"
"Offer"
"Okay, 15k?"
"No"

Here the path strays. Strangely, sometimes the seller refuses to give you a price he wants. He's selling an item, but doesn't reply how much he wants. The reason I already talked about earlier - he wants more than the actual worth. But what happens when someone has a set price?

"WTS Blahblah 15k"
"How about 10k for Blahblah?"
"15k"

And like the OP said, sometimes they won't budge and that's that. Therefore, here the path strays again. I usually like bartering and do a counter-offer, usually something in-between the two offers. Unfortunately, the stubborness works both ways, and the buyer can also have a set sum of how much he will pay with absolutely no leeway for bartering.

I also like to RP a bit while bartering, saying stuff like "Sire! That offer is laughable for a quality product such as this one!" or something in a similar vain. It just feels more right than the usual "Omg noob lol".

This is tripe, its a win win situation. These quilds (and no, my guild has never owned a town) earned possession of the town, there're generally few benefits to this. Why begrudge them the small profit they can get from passing the benefit to others. Selling the lockpicks isn't gonna make them rich when they only keep on the order of 50-100 gold per piece. Plus I buy them from folks I know who DO get the discount and I save big time. Them selling the lockpicks is not unfair, its helping you!

contradicted yourself guy. maybe you should sell something to teh "newbie" for his 4k. or do you think you know "what an item should cost"? bartering is all well and good but don't complain about others not offering what you are asking. or else you are as bad as those who you complain about.
maybe if you tossed the newbie a bone someone would have seen that and not assumed you were just another uberleet jerk selling stuff for too much money. look at any business out there-best way to garner a customer base is to toss out a few "sweet" deals. makes you more approachable.

How does any1 know current prices in this shot to pieces economy??
prices change every day. I stopped trading entirely and I used to be a respected trader here on gwg auctions go figure.

I wish there were more people that knew how to barter correctly also.. I don't know how many things I've sold at a much lower price than usual to not go through all of the trouble of arguing about a price.

Be polite, barter, and communicate? Hmm...this coming from the guy who spewed names at me for mentioning the bad trading system in another locked thread?

I'm glad we now agree.
Bad trading system=Rip off artists and annoying people. It is just human nature.

freekedoutfish, well if you get to read this far on the tread. i agree with Theraven.


a simple "Cash only" or "Sorry no thanks" or "Sorry didn't know that" works for when i'm buying or sell stuff (or in real life). I write more but i'm sure most of the replys on this thread are better put then what i can type.

What the hell is your problem? Im not an asshat for not considering other person's position, you are an jerk for flaming me without understanding what i just tried to explain. Maybe sellers naturally want to get more, but I'm not like everyone else. Did you even read? Let me repeat, i ALREADY lower my price so there is no need to haggle it down! For instance, if I'm selling Totem Axe, I wont bother trying to sell it for 6 or 7k, i will simply lower it to 5 knowing that everybody and their mom will demand that i haggle it down to that. Why? Because i have respect for other ppl's time. I don't want to go through stupid process of haggling, i will lower my price to the bottom point from very begging, so i don't have to listen all those: "I don't have that much", "Can I have it for 4k?" and so on. And if you don't even want to buy it for the price I am offering, then feel free to buy from someone else. All I'm saying, buyers should stop trying to get everything for cheap, and sellers should stop trying to get every last cent from the customers. If both sides would just pay a few K's more, or sell for few K's less from very begging, without all that whining, complaining and haggling, we would have more time for normal playing, and would spend less time arguing with people over few stinking K's. And I DO have a common decency, but I don't show it in spending few minutes for finding a price both sides will like, i am showing it in lowering my prices to minimum so we don't have to spend our time on that. People that want to haggle it down even more while trading with me are those 12 year olds who want to get everything for free and annoy the hell out of you while doing it. I guess you fit the description.

I am doing that all the time. I realized the people are just too rude and immature to trade with them normally, so i just give them what they want right away,,,

Why people don't like to barter:

1) Asking price is so high it's out of the ballpark. If you're asking 20k for a 15k item, then people think maybe a deal can be reached. If you're asking 40k for a 20k item, a lot of people are going to figure you're just unreasonable and not even try. Problem is a lot of sellers refuse to accept that the market is falling and insist on overinflated asking prices.

2) Transaction cost is too high. Time is money... er gold. If I have to spend time equal to a non-trivial fraction of the item's price dinking around bartering with you, I'm better off giving up on you and looking for someone who will buy/sell at my asking price, or - better yet - is asking for my asking price.

With regard to trade contracts, the only reason that wasn't a scam was because you were ignorant of their true value. Trade contracts don't have a subjective value like weapons. There is no beauty in the eye of the beholder that makes them worth more or less depending who you're asking. They are worth exactly 1/7 of the average between the trader buy and sell prices for the most expensive gem - not a single gold piece more or less. Anyone who offers to buy them for less, knowing about the Trade Officials, is scamming. No one who knew all the relevant facts (namely the existence of the Trade Officials and the trader's prices) would ever sell to you for less.

Why people don't like to barter:

1) Asking price is so high it's out of the ballpark. If you're asking 20k for a 15k item, then people think maybe a deal can be reached. If you're asking 40k for a 20k item, a lot of people are going to figure you're just unreasonable and not even try. Problem is a lot of sellers refuse to accept that the market is falling and insist on overinflated asking prices.

2) Transaction cost is too high. Time is money... er gold. If I have to spend time equal to a non-trivial fraction of the item's price dinking around bartering with you, I'm better off giving up on you and looking for someone who will buy/sell at my asking price, or - better yet - is asking for my asking price.

With regard to trade contracts, the only reason that wasn't a scam was because you were ignorant of their true value. Trade contracts don't have a subjective value like weapons. There is no beauty in the eye of the beholder that makes them worth more or less depending who you're asking. They are worth exactly 1/7 of the average between the trader buy and sell prices for the most expensive gem - not a single gold piece more or less. Anyone who offers to buy them for less, knowing about the Trade Officials, is scamming. No one who knew all the relevant facts (namely the existence of the Trade Officials and the trader's prices) would ever sell to you for less.