A re-occuring issue I find with trading! The main reason I cant stand it!

I bought a really nice scythe the other day on a whim. It was gold, had nice mods but rather high req. All I did was a WTB (in Trade channel) once and got an answer in just a couple minutes. Viewed the scythe, asked how much he wanted for it. He said, "I dunno. 5K?" I said "Make it 4K and you have a deal." "Done !" was the reply. Decent lower end barter, both parties happy. Win-win. I have no patience for those individuals who tell you to make an offer then turn down that offer because it doesn't magically meet some pre-ordained yet hidden reserve only they know.

The problem with trade contracts is that their value varies wildly from ~500g to over 1K depending on the day's price for the jewels. If you're buying saphires, it's closer to 500g usually. (Couple days ago, I believe it was closer to 457g.) But if you're trading for rubies, the relative price of those contracts goes to 1K or higher. Same trade contract, you're still trading in the same number for either jewel. And their value differs if you're trading them for ID kits, keys, etc. All in all, the only sensible trade-in would be the rubies since that gives you your highest market value at present.

BUT if for some reason you didn't know that.......

~Falcon

No demand is the problem, there is no genuine desire for any items, so they can screw around with buyers as much as they want. You can thank greens and other things for this.

A lot of good points in the topic, but there really used to be a lot more bartering. I think there is less now because the economy has tanked and neither side of a transaction has much room to negotiate.

I have to sell things usually under sale value, usually at or under 50% Guru for greens, just to get a sale in a reasonable amount of time. I spent a couple hours yesterday during peak hours trying to sell a Nightbringer - at 10k - and couldnt. On the other side, as a result of a similar dynamic, no one has money to spend.

Point being simply, its the economic troubles that are making people inflexible in sales rather than some social dynamic.

Well, freekedoutfish, what can i say...? Not all ppl want to haggle. We all have families you know, and when i say families i mean 5+ chars. And the thing that bugs me the most is the attitude of GW traders, everyone thinks that his goods are somehow more valuable then others, and therefore should be sold to highest price possible, even if some poor guys can barely afford it. On the other hand, everyone refuses to pay even 500 gp more when buying (i.e. Me: "WTS Black dye, 5.8K, it's 6.5K at trader" Customer: "5.5K, ok?") Is it so fu*king hard to just pay the price? Will you lost all your chars if you just pay the asked price? I am really sick of that. Respect other's ppl time. At least thats what I do. I set the price that doesn't need haggling from very start, so i can sell it without negotiation and get back to more important things. I don't see any point in haggling. Just set realistic price and accept first reasonable offer. Don't waste both yours and other ppl's time with senseless arguing over few K's

This is the exact issue people are talking about here...people LIKE YOU...do not have the common decency to spend a few minutes to find a price both sides will like. Just because you set a price...doesn't mean that's the only price for that item. Buyers naturally want to pay less...Sellers naturally want to get more. You're just an asshat for not considering the other person's position...it's all about ME ME ME. Grow the hell up.

personally...I haggle...If I'm selling I advertise a price that I would like to get but is really a few k higher than what I expect to get. I expect people to haggle. If I'm buying I usually offer slightly lower to see what I can get...sometimes people will haggle...sometimes people will say a simple "nty" (which I don't mind...at least they responded)...sometimes people just ignore what you said completely and you don't hear from them again.

It's all about respect for your fellow player...someone who is willing to haggle is showing respect for your concerns in the game...you should do the same. Or at least say "no haggling" when you put up your WTB/WTS or at the VERY LEAST respond with a "nty" when someone tries to haggle with you.

Fish, the problem isn't with the barter or the haggle side solely.

A spams: \/\/ T S (its in local u see, just a little joke) <Item 1> 'godly' req 9 100k+ecto

Buyer B PMs: I'll give you 100k for it

A CAPS: LOLAWLLAWNMOWER nOOB Ceck Guru, its 100k+ ecto!!!111!!!!
A goes back to spamming

B goes off to buy from someone else for closer to original price or farms said item himself.

Observer C then spends time getting item 1 to sell for 100k+ twice as many ecto, because A is still spamming said item.

Solution: Get rid of the one price eliteism in traders, equally rid the game of the fixed priced traders....
Or just don't bother with those two groups go for the trader offering a reasonable price in trade, who actually talks.

agreed, the attitude of players doesn't help the trade system at all.

like many people, i sell cheap in order to get a quick sale on most items. if most people are selling something for 10k, i'll advertise for 5k. there's always a jerk or two who wants it even cheaper than that and offer me 2k like they're doing me a favor. bartering is fine and good, but i've found that too often people offer less than half of the asking price, which is just rude, especially on an already marked-down price. bartering != half price.

the sell threads/auctions here at guru aren't much better. just because someone bids 5k on a 80k item doesn't mean they're actually going to get it.

i also blame the completely tanked state of the in-game economy. i'm going for legendary skill hunter and i'm not amused that the prices of skills wasn't lowered to compensate for the crap economy.

lag ftw 12 characters

Fish, I gotta agree with you on the trade situation. I hate trading. Like Woody, I have a storage locker full of golds that are too good to merch, but not good enough to move quickly in trade chat.

I got lucky a few weeks ago and a nice Elemental Sword dropped for me. I knew it was valuable, but had no clue on the exact value so I headed here and had it price checked. I got 2 replies. The first said 100k + 30-50e. The 2nd said 100k + 10-20e and I noticed later that the sticky agreed with that estimate.

I spent about an hour in Kaineng trying to sell. I listed it at 100+25e, a little high, but I had the same theory as Fish (room to haggle down). This was a nightmare. The hour went something like this.....

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword <insert stats here>.....100k +25e
Player 1: Can I see?
<shows sword in trade>
Player 1: Nice, I'll trade you a max bow for it.
Me: no thx. cash only.

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword <insert stats here>.....100k +25e
Player 2: I'll give you a mini hydra + 10k
Me: no thx. cash only.

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword <insert stats here>.....100k +25e
Player 3: Let me see
Player 3: How much?
Player 3: I have a Req 13 Chaos Axe I'll trade for it.
Me: no thx. cash only.
Player 3: Plz, plz, I'll add a purple bow too.
Me: no thx.

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword <insert stats here>.....100k +25e
Player 4: I have a shadow blade I'll trade ya.
Me: no thx, cash only.

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword ....100k +25e CASH ONLY!!!
Player 5: how much?
Me: 100k + 25e
Player 5: I'll trade you a thorn wolf + 20k for it.
(hmm, I was actually tempted here, but I'm not sure of the 2nd year prices)
Me: no thx, cash only.

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword ....100k +25e CASH ONLY!!
Player 6: Do you accept trades?
Me: nope
Player 6: plz, just open trade. i have a nice FDS!

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword ....100k +25e CASH ONLY!!
Player 7: <opens trade> <inserts Icy Falchion>
Me: cash only, no trades.
Player 7: Just hit accept. It's worth the same price, you noob.
Me: cash only, no trades. <closes trade>
(maybe it is worth the same price, but I have no idea if that's true or not)

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword ....100k +25e CASH ONLY!!
Player 8: Will you sell it for 15k
(I don't think I even bothered to answer him)

Me Trade Channel: WTS Elemental Sword ....100k +25e CASH ONLY!!
Player 9: I have a blade axe. Great stats!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'll trade for it.
Me: cash only.
Player 9: how much then
Me: 100k + 25e
Player 9: no thx.

I must have had at least 50 offers on this sword. ALL TRADES! Not 1 person offered me gold for the sword. (No, I'm not counting the 15k offer) I would have loved to make 25e on the deal, but I'm realistic too. If someone had counter offered another price in the ballpark I would have happily accepted.

I finally gave up and placed the sword here in the sell forum. It sold quickly for 100k + 11e to a very nice and polite player.


On another note, Fish, I mean no offense, but if I had seen you in Kodash Bazaar trying to buy trade contracts for 100g I would have assumed you were a scammer as well. In your case it was innocent ignorance of the going rate but for everyone like you there are 10 more "WTB'ers" who are just trying to scam trade contracts off new players who have no idea what they can sell them for.

Think of it this way. You said you didn't know what they were worth. If you had a couple on you and someone in the bazaar offered you 200g each for them you probably would have sold. Later when you discovered their worth you would have felt scammed.

Gotta agree with Raven...for every person who doesn't know how much an item is actually worth when trying to buy them...there's 10 more that know exactly what they are worth...and are trying to take advantage of people that aren't in the know. You could have gone to see how much the trade contracts were going for then divided by 7 (this is how many it takes to get 1 gem)...but you didn't even though you knew they could be traded in for gems...and that's why you got called on it...people assumed you were a scammer.

People not willing to do their homework when trying to buy up items that have a market price that can be determined by going to a merchant deserve to get called on it just like all the scammers out there. It's not like trying to sell some rare weapon whose price is determined by the market and the only place you can get an idea of how much it's worth is by coming to Guru or checking out auction sites.

Another thing that bugs me is the guilds that can take advantage of the discount merchants to sell lockpicks (buying them for 1.2k, selling them for 1.3k...0.2k lower than people can normally buy them from merchants). I'm convinced it's making those guilds incredibly wealthy...skewing the economy even more. No one should have an advantage like that.

I've had this a lot, and I usually barter. I tend to start from a sum which is below what people usually are asking but a sum which still contains some air for bartering.

The thing is, people seem to be mortified of giving a starting price. No matter if they are selling or buying, they always ask you - which is kind of weird especially if they are selling. I reckon the reason is that they have certain image of what they want (Guru price guide or something) and hope that the other guy will offer lots more than the supposed worth.

But let's say someone is selling item X. This is how it usually goes:

"WTS Blahblah"
"How much for Blahblah?"
"Offer"
"Okay, 15k?"
"No"

Here the path strays. Strangely, sometimes the seller refuses to give you a price he wants. He's selling an item, but doesn't reply how much he wants. The reason I already talked about earlier - he wants more than the actual worth. But what happens when someone has a set price?

"WTS Blahblah 15k"
"How about 10k for Blahblah?"
"15k"

And like the OP said, sometimes they won't budge and that's that. Therefore, here the path strays again. I usually like bartering and do a counter-offer, usually something in-between the two offers. Unfortunately, the stubborness works both ways, and the buyer can also have a set sum of how much he will pay with absolutely no leeway for bartering.

I also like to RP a bit while bartering, saying stuff like "Sire! That offer is laughable for a quality product such as this one!" or something in a similar vain. It just feels more right than the usual "Omg noob lol".

This is tripe, its a win win situation. These quilds (and no, my guild has never owned a town) earned possession of the town, there're generally few benefits to this. Why begrudge them the small profit they can get from passing the benefit to others. Selling the lockpicks isn't gonna make them rich when they only keep on the order of 50-100 gold per piece. Plus I buy them from folks I know who DO get the discount and I save big time. Them selling the lockpicks is not unfair, its helping you!

contradicted yourself guy. maybe you should sell something to teh "newbie" for his 4k. or do you think you know "what an item should cost"? bartering is all well and good but don't complain about others not offering what you are asking. or else you are as bad as those who you complain about.
maybe if you tossed the newbie a bone someone would have seen that and not assumed you were just another uberleet jerk selling stuff for too much money. look at any business out there-best way to garner a customer base is to toss out a few "sweet" deals. makes you more approachable.

How does any1 know current prices in this shot to pieces economy??
prices change every day. I stopped trading entirely and I used to be a respected trader here on gwg auctions go figure.

I wish there were more people that knew how to barter correctly also.. I don't know how many things I've sold at a much lower price than usual to not go through all of the trouble of arguing about a price.

Be polite, barter, and communicate? Hmm...this coming from the guy who spewed names at me for mentioning the bad trading system in another locked thread?

I'm glad we now agree.
Bad trading system=Rip off artists and annoying people. It is just human nature.

freekedoutfish, well if you get to read this far on the tread. i agree with Theraven.


a simple "Cash only" or "Sorry no thanks" or "Sorry didn't know that" works for when i'm buying or sell stuff (or in real life). I write more but i'm sure most of the replys on this thread are better put then what i can type.

What the hell is your problem? Im not an asshat for not considering other person's position, you are an jerk for flaming me without understanding what i just tried to explain. Maybe sellers naturally want to get more, but I'm not like everyone else. Did you even read? Let me repeat, i ALREADY lower my price so there is no need to haggle it down! For instance, if I'm selling Totem Axe, I wont bother trying to sell it for 6 or 7k, i will simply lower it to 5 knowing that everybody and their mom will demand that i haggle it down to that. Why? Because i have respect for other ppl's time. I don't want to go through stupid process of haggling, i will lower my price to the bottom point from very begging, so i don't have to listen all those: "I don't have that much", "Can I have it for 4k?" and so on. And if you don't even want to buy it for the price I am offering, then feel free to buy from someone else. All I'm saying, buyers should stop trying to get everything for cheap, and sellers should stop trying to get every last cent from the customers. If both sides would just pay a few K's more, or sell for few K's less from very begging, without all that whining, complaining and haggling, we would have more time for normal playing, and would spend less time arguing with people over few stinking K's. And I DO have a common decency, but I don't show it in spending few minutes for finding a price both sides will like, i am showing it in lowering my prices to minimum so we don't have to spend our time on that. People that want to haggle it down even more while trading with me are those 12 year olds who want to get everything for free and annoy the hell out of you while doing it. I guess you fit the description.

I am doing that all the time. I realized the people are just too rude and immature to trade with them normally, so i just give them what they want right away,,,

Why people don't like to barter:

1) Asking price is so high it's out of the ballpark. If you're asking 20k for a 15k item, then people think maybe a deal can be reached. If you're asking 40k for a 20k item, a lot of people are going to figure you're just unreasonable and not even try. Problem is a lot of sellers refuse to accept that the market is falling and insist on overinflated asking prices.

2) Transaction cost is too high. Time is money... er gold. If I have to spend time equal to a non-trivial fraction of the item's price dinking around bartering with you, I'm better off giving up on you and looking for someone who will buy/sell at my asking price, or - better yet - is asking for my asking price.

With regard to trade contracts, the only reason that wasn't a scam was because you were ignorant of their true value. Trade contracts don't have a subjective value like weapons. There is no beauty in the eye of the beholder that makes them worth more or less depending who you're asking. They are worth exactly 1/7 of the average between the trader buy and sell prices for the most expensive gem - not a single gold piece more or less. Anyone who offers to buy them for less, knowing about the Trade Officials, is scamming. No one who knew all the relevant facts (namely the existence of the Trade Officials and the trader's prices) would ever sell to you for less.

Why people don't like to barter:

1) Asking price is so high it's out of the ballpark. If you're asking 20k for a 15k item, then people think maybe a deal can be reached. If you're asking 40k for a 20k item, a lot of people are going to figure you're just unreasonable and not even try. Problem is a lot of sellers refuse to accept that the market is falling and insist on overinflated asking prices.

2) Transaction cost is too high. Time is money... er gold. If I have to spend time equal to a non-trivial fraction of the item's price dinking around bartering with you, I'm better off giving up on you and looking for someone who will buy/sell at my asking price, or - better yet - is asking for my asking price.

With regard to trade contracts, the only reason that wasn't a scam was because you were ignorant of their true value. Trade contracts don't have a subjective value like weapons. There is no beauty in the eye of the beholder that makes them worth more or less depending who you're asking. They are worth exactly 1/7 of the average between the trader buy and sell prices for the most expensive gem - not a single gold piece more or less. Anyone who offers to buy them for less, knowing about the Trade Officials, is scamming. No one who knew all the relevant facts (namely the existence of the Trade Officials and the trader's prices) would ever sell to you for less.

Between widespread commodity mass production and chain stores staffed by people with no negotiating power, people in the western world have become strongly conditioned to evaluate sticker prices and take or leave them at that. Westerners rarely negotiate anything, and become really uncomfortable when asked to - it's almost a cultural taboo. It shouldn't be surprising that people are disinclined to negotiate in game.

Which is really silly, since you negotiate the price on all of your really big transactions anyway - home purchases, cars, and likely your salary if you do anything worthwhile, etc.

I believe it all has to do with the animosity of the internet.

Eh not much else to say here.

You know what is the real problem with trading? People try to buy cheap and sell high who doesn't really understand how it works. It doesn't mean you go buy an elite tome for 8k and resell for 20k. It doesn't mean you go buy a Dead sword for 5k and resell at 50k. It means you see a sword pommel for 10k and you resell for 15k. The high price is still lower than most market price but you made 5k off of it. I hate when "Noobs" spamming in chat saying r10 Jade Sword 100k+5e when they have no idea that the same item can be bought for 35k easily. Or sometimes there are 2 people selling the same item One person would be, "WTS Mini Koss for 45k!" and the other person would be "WTS Mini Koss for 30k!" I mean seriously, who would buy it for 45k if there is someone selling for 30k.

Another thing about trading, people argue over 200g, I mean you can make 400g with the time you wasted arguing over the 200g.

Some people also have no respect for other people's items. I once was selling a req11 inscribable Magmas shield for 100k when they are going for 100k+ on guru Highend forum, a person pm me and said that I was scamming and here is his exact quote, "YOU ARE A FACKING n00b (yes he used zero instead of O), no gold items worth over 10k, even a green items don't go over 40k. 100k is rip off." I mean what do you do with people like this?

But all this complaining has come only to 1 conclusion, people do this because they do not stop and take time to think. [sarcasm] I mean seriously, who has the time to think these days? [/sarcasm]

No to brag but, People ask me how much money I make usually in about a week, I reply with idk, and 2-300kish. And I am instantly labeled as a scammer. For people who actually traded with me, they know that I sell everything at extremely cheap prices.

Now from the economic stand point: Despite of what people say about it's just a game and everything, the gw economy follows every single rule that abides the real world economy. And thus everything cost money. For people who argue, Why would I sell cheaper when I could just wait half an hour or another hour and make an extra 50% on it. But the opportunity cost of the half and hour to an hour will exceed the potential profit to be made with charging extra for your item. In that amount of time, you could be farming, chest running, or doing PvP.

This trading issue cannot be solved because there is no way to truly inform people without being insulted. I've tried to help people out so that they would not be taken advantaged, but one out of three will come out and call me a "loser" for nothing, and their argument is that I have no life. But the irony is that they are probably arguing to someone about 200g.

Another thing is that in guild wars guru sell forum, people bid 2k on 30hp sword pommels, people bid 3k on perfect shields, weapons. And do you think that anyone in their right mind will sell things at those prices? Show people some respect and leave an respectable offer. Bid 10k on the sword pommel, it's little low but at least it shows your respect to the seller and he or she might be in a situation to sell at that price, but no one will ever be desperate enough to sell at the offer of 2k.

These are my experiences and insights of the gw trading community. For those I have offended, I apologize in advance. Hope other people share my thoughts and experiences.

QFT - I spent a few months in Beijing and caught the haggling bug, so it comes natural to me now, but it felt very odd at first as an American trying to negotiate the price on almost everything. One thing I learned from cultures that operate in a barter society: it's never personal. Getting upset that the price is too high/low is silly. Just politely walk away. There's always another deal to be had. Rule number two, which applies to Guildwars, too, do your homework before engaging in any transaction.

Nicely stated. One should take into account the difference in what the buyer and seller feel the price should be, like what you said in your first statement. The seller may believe the item to be worth 20k, for an example, but to the buyer it is only work 10k. It depends a lot on if the buyer thinks it'd be 'nice' to have or if it is more along the lines of a 'must' have. In a lot of ways the Price that the Guru has doesn't matter because people will only pay what 'they' feel it is worth to them. So asking a price they feel is unreasonable will make them walk away, it's nothing personal just they don't want to waste their playing time, as you said in point 2.

You fit in the same ballpark as the people the OP described...you have your "reasonable price" and refuse to haggle...well...one person's reasonable price is another person's insane markup...completely refusing to haggle or not telling them "sorry I can't go lower" is the exact kind of person he is talking about. Do you ignore people who try to talk you down? do you laugh in their face and call them n00bs and tell them it's not worth that? sounds to me like you are that type. Why don't you clear that up a bit so we can put you clearly into one group or the other. There is a distinct difference between those groups...in one group you're an asshat...the other group you're not.

i always haggle with the items i'm selling. if someone doesn't want to haggle, i can always find another seller. if i know i don't stand a good chance on making at least 150% profit on the items i sell, then i won't buy them in the first place (except for items that go into my collection ie minis and greens).

This is what I currently trade like, it's so cheap that bartering by the other party is annoying, and that is what I will say at that point. "Mate it is already cheap compared to others I do not see the need to lower my prices even further." But I may have had this only once or twice, most people see that the price is good, and u get a grateful thanks for it, and me runs away with the fast cash thanking them too.

Some mention GURU prices, in general I find them pretty high, compared to guru auction or in game prices.

Westerners don't barter IRL as the nickle and dime profits on small product does not allow that, for bigger products u can almost always barter (they will then go talk to their bosses usually).

One question, someone mentioned window shoppers, and that they hardly ever buy. I share this experience, what makes these window shoppers be so ignorant of the advert, and do they really know what they want?

The problem here lies in the fact that ppl have been told that the fastest way to get rich is to power trade, ie buy low sell high. Young kids not knowing how to do this or being impatient will try all sorts of tricks to get an item at a much lower price. And then they sell for a price 2x the normal price and i'm like wth??? I was in LA advertising to buy a colossal scimitar and this fella says he has one and shows me a req 12. I ask how much and lo and behold he says "MAKE OFFER". So ok i say 40k (yeah i was desperate for one) and she replied 60k. So i said "lets both compromise and settle at 50k. The guy refuses to budge and goes off. I'm like ok... and came on GWG and bought a req 12 for 27k. The moral of the story is buy on GWG.

That makes me laugh actually because I spent about an hour or two in Nightfall last night buying Trade Contracts for Rubis...

I was posting "<WTB> 41 Trade Contacts - 700g each - wisp me"

...and obviously reducing the amount I needed as I went. Most people were fine, but I had about 3 or 4 who would whisper me and ask for more for their trade contracts.

I even had a guy whisper me and say "I have 15, i want 800g each".

I just whispered back saying "no, thats far too much I can only afford a set price" and I explained that at 800g each, im only saving about 1k on the actual price of a Rubi. Plus 100g more, 15 times adds up to quite a bit.

He then had the nerve to whisper me back with "I know my game and I know my prices". I whispered back saying "so do I, and their only worth 700g. Good Bye!"

I had about another 3 people try that on and I just told them go take a run and jump (after being polite and they were rude back)!

I even had a guy whisper me afterwards saying "Well i just sold mine at 800g each". I just said "good for you"!

I finally got all my 40+ trade contracts, but only after an hour of advertising, but I refused to give in to people who charged more.

So what about these people who ask for 800g for a TC, when the given price on the market is 700g. Are they scamming? because someone might be willing to pay that and not realise.

I had quite a few people ask me why I wanted so many, so people obviously dont realise about the Rubis.

Buying isnt so much the problem, because someone is always selling what you want! Its selling that is the hard and frustrating part.

I mean I have a bow with [feathered skin, req9, 15^50, +30hp, 33% poisoned] which I would think was pretty decent. But even advertised at 15k, no one will buy it.

I even had a vampiric +5/-1 mod for a bow which im willing to add to the deal, because I know the 33% poisoned isnt a popular mod. But still no one will touch it.

I realise the skin isnt rare, but at 15k you get a perfect (in my definition) bow. Thats a steal in my view or am I wrong? But people just look at it and move off.

The game is very materialistic. I've never once looked at skins when getting weapons for my elemental. I just get what I feel is best.

I even had a dagger [celestial skinned, req11, 15^50, +30hp, 33% dazed] dagger and no one will touch it for 15k. I dont really want to sell a near perfect dagger for less then 15k, because in my view its a very good weapon.

But because of the market, i'm probably going to be forced to down to 10k or bellow.

For a game where skill and stats are meant to be more important, people are far too fickel about skins and athetics.

For some weapons you have to consider that someone can actually make the same thing for less money.

For example, that flatbow: you can go to the weaponsmith outside the Sunspear Command Post, and craft a 15^50 feathered flatbow for 5K plus a little more for materials. You can then trade for a +30 mod, a poisonous or vampiric mod and still have plenty of change from 15K...

Your bow is decent, but I wouldn't buy it at 15K - it would have to be a skin that you can't simply craft, or it would have to be cheaper. Perhaps if I haggled you down to 10K...? Except I don't do haggling LOL

The reality is, I probably would and will go down to 10k. I'm just soooo sick of selling stuff and I still need enough for 10 rubis (70 trade contracts ) and 25k for the armor.

The next 2 weeks are not going to be fun!! *head > desk*

My trading politics exactly. Only, i don't even bother anymore to reply. Idiots offering 3K for 20/20 Sundering for axe (happened last night) don't deserve reply. I sell cheap. Probably cheaper then 90% of the guys out there, just so both of us don't have to haggle. If you want even cheaper then that, good luck.

Agreed. Time is money.

My prices are reasonable. End of story. If you don't like it, walk away. I'm not saying I never haggle, I'm saying that:
1)Say, I'm selling Kanaxai's Axe for 12K. The price is set so it doesn't need haggling, since other ppl are selling for 15k. If someone offers even lower then what I asked, not because they can't afford it, but because they are used to bitch for every damn platinum, I will simply reply that my price is cheap as it is, and if he/she doesn't like it, they can try to find cheaper.
2) Same goes for selling Rare materials or Dyes 1k lower then trader, and ppl demanding even lower price.
3) Same goes for any other thing that I am selling for cheap and somebody always pops out with offer that just offends you, because if you would accept it, YOU would be noob, not them for offering it, because you know everyone else is selling at much higher price. Some people have pride, you know. By making stupid offers you are spiting on it...
I don't ignore people that try to talk me down. I don't ever call anyone a noob, and i try to be polite and spell correctly, even tho English isn't my mother language. No point in being rude and immature, you won't get far with that attitude. I lost count of how many times did i try to explain to other people that the item isn't worth that low, or, when buying, that they are over-pricing it. But no, everybody wants to profit on you. I mean, that IS normal, but GW players are pushing it too far. So I got sick of it, and so i just pay more, and sell for less then others. I gave up... But everybody has their limits, so when I sell for cheap and the random wammo comes and asks for cheaper, I either respond: "No way, sorry" or ignore. Yeah maybe I am bad trader, because I don't make millions by overcharging everyone, or haggling down the price even when other guy would accept to sell it to me for a bit cheap... But i don't care. My time is more valuable then few K's.

Why would you call someone buying Trade Contracts lower than 1k each a scammer?
Would you call someone a scammer who buys Black Dye for 4k if someone is offering it in the trade channel ?
That's exactly the same.... it's called trading and making profit.

If you see something on ebay, which you know is worth a lot and you buy it for a few bucks: Are you a scammer?

To my understanding TC are worth 700g, so Im not sure why anyone would suggest less then 1k is a scam. It wouldnt make sense to sell TC for 1k each because you need 7 for Rubi and a Rubi is less then 7k.

If you pay over 700g for a TC, your being ripped off. The minute you exceed 700g, your not really saving any gold if you had just bought the Rubi itself.

But I agree! If both parties are happy on the price, then its not a scam.

A scam is when you either extremely undercut or overcharge someone, or you sell them the wrong item on purpose.

But trade contracts are arguably not even worth 700g, because you can exchange a TC for items that are worth less then 700g such as bags and dye remover.

Like almost everybody here, I have a small experience of trading and it's utterly unpleasant.

I have at various times sold mods, weapons and minipets (not the best stuff, not farmed, just to clear storage). Each time I have checked various forums to get the so-called 'value' of these items. Each time I have got bored trying to get these values and ended up taking about 50-80% of this.

HOWEVER, when I am on the buyind end, things seem to be quite different. Someone offers something in the trade channel - I am keen to have a look - and I offer something less than the price they ask. I treat them as sellers in the same way that I behave as a seller. But just like in the OP, the result is so very frequently ... abuse.

Sorry but this is not a supermarket. When are people going to realise that the basic rule of economics is:

An item is only "worth" what someone is prepared to pay for it.

People go onto these price guides and it tells them "Your minipet is worth 30k" and so if someone offers them 20k the response is "OMFG n00bster it's WORTH 30k". It's only 'worth' that if someone parts with 30k of their hard earned cash. If, an hour later, the item is still not sold and my 20k is still the only 20k on offer, sorry people, that's all it's WORTH. People talk about trades being done below the market price.....erm, whatever something sells for IS the market price.

If people didn't come over insulted, treating these price guides like they are some kind of bible, treating anyone that offers below these as a scammer... GW would be a much nicer place to trade.

Amen!!

The only time you can EVER dictate the price of something, is if the merchant is selling it at a set price!

Then and only then, can you make a comment about whether they are ove-charging or under-charging you!

But since the majority of items, which get traded arent sold by the merchant (i.e mini pets, customised weapons, rare drops and tomes), then no on is in any position to say "thats not worth that much".

And no offence to the auction section, but even that isnt the gospil on prices. Those are prices tictated by a minority of the guildwars community. The majority of people dont use it, just as the majority of people dont use these forums.

So why should we let the minority dictate the cost of an item?

Especially since most of the people who use the auction section, are probably richer then your average player and experts at trading (assumption I know).

Its just another example of the minority dictating how things run.

Me too, I've tried to barter and teach people how to barter, but they don't listen, they want their "leet" prices and that's all.

Auction is the only place I buy really. Sometimes if I have some cash and wanna spend it I'll go to LA or K center and see what people are selling, but most of the time those experiences are bad because the seller will only take super inflated prices.

This guy has wisdom.
Time is money. Barter makes you loose time. So bartering makes you loose money. The thing is to evaluate the money you will gain by bartering Vs the money you will loose by not playing.

Selling In-Game is the best way to loose a lot of time, and then a lot of money. What's the point of spending 3 hours trying to sell a 20k thing in a town when it takes the same time to farm ithe same gold in Elite missions uh?
I ALWAYS sell on Auction sites. Minimal time investment for maximal prices available. Additionnally, it automatically sets your item at the right price.

For your buyer issue....
Fish, I would be the kind of trader you dislike. I always make offers ways under the exact price for buying. Because I currently know very well that the seller is loosing a lot of time spamming its WTS while i'm doing missions/quests.
That's how I regularly buy cheap elite tomes (9k and under depending of their rarity). This is bartering.
Example:
Him: WTS Ritualist elite tome 15k.
Me: 8k.
Him: 14k
Me: No, 8k. Take my IGN. When you will be fed up with waiting, PM me.
.....
Go on mission...
....
Go back in Town...
Me: So? 8k is okay? You've waited enough?
Him: 10k?
Me: no, 8k, PM me when you will agrre to sell it to me at this price.
Him: Okay.... Here's your f*cking tome.
Me: thnx *trade accepted*

Selling and bartering in-game is IMO the best way to loose a maximum of time without actually playing.
Auctions sites are your friends. WTS spammers your ennemies.

stick the word FIRM next to the price of your item [ie. wts xxx 10k firm] and haggling problem solved, for the most part.

like others have mentioned, a sellers view of cheap isnt always going to coincide with a buyers. if u think your price is dirt cheap and dont want to deal with hagglers, simply put the word FIRM next to the price.

so u want your item open to haggling? simple put the abbreviation OBO [or best offer] in your spam advert [ie. wts xxx 10k obo] and hopefully you get some counter-offers.

if you dont want to deal with hagglers, window shoppers or item traders, say so in your spam advert [ie. wts xxx 10k firm, no trades, no "can i see"]and problem solved.

people arent mind readers. so try clearly communication what you want when trading in-game