Are immature kids hurting the game?

This has probably already been said before, but here it is again:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19

eudas

its not only genetics, nor only nurture, its both. The debate has been long going on, but from genetic experiments in model systems (which has very little to do with psychology) we can easily conclude that genetics form a basis upon which behavior is based and can be adjusted by associative learning. Behavior that consistently results in negative feedback (being reprimanded) will be stopped in the end. why is there so much bad behavior still, simply because we do not act early and fast enough for the targets to correlate both. And conscience is usually not as strong compared the genetic learning systems. There is just a small percentage of cases which probably can't control their behavior, the big majority was probably not taught well.

One thing I need to say; It isn't always kids. I'm not an adult yet, per se, I'm only 17. You would never find me in Random Arenas District one shouting profanities or racial slurs, but yet, people stereotype by age. I've seen 12 year olds who are more mature than 20 year olds, the problem here isn't age; it's simply maturity. That jazz about revoking children's rights is funny; why not revoke the rights of the minorities, and women at that matter? Let's just take a big step back in time, we won't need to worry about Guild Wars all together, might as well throw your computer out the window.

No ingame gms or moderation = current state of gw local chat

I'm sorry but reporting someone through the site is just a joke.

Age has nothing to do with maturity as some have said, I've seen mature 10 yr olds and immature 20+ through the various MMOs I've played.

Well kids are getting more and more spoiled. There's always the group of brats who are always buying the new games because mom gives them money for nothing. Then in the game, it of course has to be the absolute best, or it's a piece of junk so they complain a lot.

It ruins it for the rest of us gamers who actually have lives and don't have money to buy the latest video card or the latest computer or both...

It's becoming more and more the norm in society that parents are supposed to be friends to their children and that's not the way it should be, damnit!

Make your kids do homework. Make them work for the money to buy games. We'll see how profane they are after they are finished mowning the lawn outside.

Immaturity is not an age, it's a state of mind. I've seen more kids act in a mature way then some adults I know.

Age has nothing to do with being mature or immature. Playing games, video or otherwise allows us to be childlike while still maintaning a level of maturity.

Being foul mouthed is not kids being kids.

QFT.

You'll not hear any complaint from me, I know this is a bit off topic but, Parents are 'Parents' not Brother, Sisters, best friends...etc.
We have two ( 14 & 16) and I would hope that neither of them would be any different online than they would be in any other social occasion.

That should apply to everyone, if you wouldn't do in a real life situation don't do it in game. If you act like that in real life shame on you.

The web is a huge community. People of all ages act stupidly precisely because they can. It's not about being polite, or kind, or considerate. On the internet you play a character, especially since we're in an MMORPG. People can say things and do things they would never think about saying and doing in a social situation, and personally I'd prefer they say the ridiculous things they're saying on the net rather than on the streets.

If someone's really offensive whisper them politely, if they continue, screen shot and report. If they're just a little bit annoying ignore it and continue enjoying the game. If it's in local chat, turn it off. If it's in a mission, no one would think worse of you for leaving if you're offended.

I agree that older age does not automatically constitute maturity. However, maturity does develop over time through experiences, trials and errors, etc. I thought I knew it all when I was 18, but I didn't. I wasn't a screw-up, but I still had a lot to learn. I wouldn't say age has "nothing" to do with being mature.

There are numerous factors that make up each individual (i.e. age, gender, religion, upbringing, etc.). It would be difficult at best to try and label groups of people in an online game.

I don't see a problem with them if you just *looks around* ignore them.

So that makes it acceptable?

If they said those kinds of things on the streets, they would get their ass pounded in to the ground.

Oh yeah, like that works.

<---19

i see people younger than me who are quite mature and personally am astonished by it. i also see people the same age or older than me who are just completely immature lil punks...its not so much an age issue as it is just the general community. not everyone is always going to be nice, just figure it that those who are being the immature ones will get what they have coming and let what must be, be. they can be banned if enough people report with screenies if the person is just being a flat out bastard being racist, sexist, gay bashing, harrasing, etc etc. but if its just cussing and nothing major then they 9 times outta 10 wont do anything since the profanity filter was implemented into the game for said reason. just my opinion anyways

Turn off local chat if it bothers you, i don't have a problem with how other people behave, but perhaps my perspective will also become warped by the time i'm picking up my pension at the post office.

Unlike other Children I am not Spoiled^^!
I am not that Materialistic, Example I do not want a Cellphone while most Kids do. Even if my Mom asked me if I want I said no^^!
But I don't work for money^^!
And I have a Private Tutor of my own^^!


Raises hand Proudly and Happily^^!

I see anything-everything-everyone being called "gay" in this game, and it really bothers me. Mainly because I am gay. Once in FOW, I was in a PUG and we got in and were fighting from get-go, no time for the bonder to cast all his enchants, or the rit to lay down his Spirits. We survived, at which point the Necro in the group said "that spawn was so gay." Didn't raise an eyebrow in the group. Now if the same situation were repeated, and I said "that spawn was so black" (which I wouldn't), I would expect a sound flaming (and rightly so) and maybe to be kicked from the group.
I am in my late twenties. When I was growing up, in the eighties, we as kids did use "gay" as a catch-all perjerortive term, I guess to replace "retarded" which was popular before, but deemed insensitive. I am really disappointed that after 20 years, kids,(as we are calling them in this thread), haven't progressed to the point of finding a better "cool" word to use to express distaste rather than "gay". Also, I am utterly dismayed that "retard" or "tard" or "(insert noun here)-tard" has made its way back into socially acceptable slang.

Agreed - it's not just "kids" who act/talk like they're spoilt little potty-mouth brats.

Agreed - it's a game and no one should have the absolute authority to dictate behavior to another.

Agreed - there is a certain standard for polite society - and indiscriminate cursing, graphic sexual innuendos/talk/etc, or racial/societal/national slurs should not be tolerated.

I realize I could simply uncheck Local. And, sadly enough, I've been doing it more and more. BUT that means I also miss the opportunity to HELP newbies or others with questions, tips, suggestions, pointers, etc. And that penalizes ME for others' inability and unwillingness to conduct themselves in a relatively mature manner.

I could also add numerous names to my Ignore list - but again, feeling the need to take that action penalizes ME for other's inability and unwillingness to conduct themselves in a relatively mature manner.

On ocassion I've commented on such behavior in Local, "shaming" the offender mildly. Usually it doesn't work.

Reporting them doesn't work.

Ignoring them doesn't work.

So what you're saying is I should either give them the satisfaction of limiting my own game (unchecking Local) or ignoring them. Hmmmm.

<--- almost 44, started the game at 42. Oldest child (the one who showed us all GW) is now 24, the youngest 17, middle son's still active in GW at 19. I never accepted the described behaviors from them growing up - why should I accept or enable it from others now? Why should I feel forced to just because it's an online game and global?

~Falcon

Ps: Under the US Constitution, only adults have any constitutional rights. Children do not. Strange little factoid.

QFT

QFT



you immdiately assume that its kids behind all the insults flying around? you'd be suprised at the amount of adults who have attitude problems. Its like LOL, my local game shops manager plays css with me, hes 27 and about as immature as it gets in game, out of game hes completely different.
why care? ignore it.
society's facked, live with it.

Ok what is against the EULA?
Your original post was flawed. You failed to show any real questionable behaviour. Instead played with pathos appealing comments about children and restrictions.

Your final comment, a clear ploy appealing to morality and embarrsement, is evident of the flaw.

Very fitting taking a virtual situation into a real world institution (in a social mechanisms sense), playing on emotions.

You then proceed to ignorantly blame children, and seek a remedy. How do u even know who or what ages these offenders are?

You conveniently offer your age, no doubt as a means to appeal to Authority. But the age of offenders can't be confirmed, hench the 'Child' tag imposed is for what purpose. Are we to identify these individuals as deviants threatening the arete elements of ethos ( threating our virtues, morality and goodness)

And finally what rules have these people broken? Graphic comments! Your only mention of any kind of specific detail is graphic comments. To which standards do we measure graphic comments? Yours, My own, the Churchs!

As far as I know the game is rated 12yrs+, That adds censorship to the age and a warning to parents.

But where would this enforcement of general chat cease? Political issues, vulgar words, personal ideals, language differences (Most Australians use the S word often in a non-insultive manner, Same with the F word, more a kin to a verbal !). And the severity of these word are relative to usage.

I was so lazy I just couldn't be F-ed
F you, go get F-ed
That last GvG was just f-ed

Language filters already exist within the game to prevent the exposure of certain words.

That point has yet to be proven!

yeah no kidding...yet why is it that children (being age 17 and under) can be punished for infringing on said rights. hypocricy much?

Modern psyschology? You mean psychology from the 60s? Or pop psychology? Ever heard of Walter Mischel or person-situation interaction? Not even trait pscyhologists believe in pure trait theory anymore. That's old.

If you knew anything about modern psychology, you'd have pointed out that many theorists believe that parents are not the most influential factor in a child's development. They believe peers are more important. But no one really believes that traits determine all behaviour anymore.

And neuroticism causing rudeness? Do you know anything about psychology? I score very high on measures of neuroticism, and I'm not as rude as the people in local chat. If you're using the five-factor model of personality traits, then the trait you're looking for is agreeableness. People who score low on agreeableness can be intentionally rude.

Please don't pretend you're an expert when you don't know what you're talking about.

... so all racism against minorities is okay if you don't get offended by racism against the majority? That attitude itself is racist. And did I ever say I was okay with racism against whites? I don't believe I did. I find it just as disgusting as any other racism and I think that it's wrong to tolerate it. But thanks for just assuming I had a character flaw and criticizing me based on what you made up.

And I most likely suffer from guilt complexes?? Yeah, given that I'm in a country that wasn't involved in the slave trade. And that my ancestors, who were from other countries, also were never involved in the slave trade. I feel sooooo guilty for what other people in other places in other times did! And even if my country or ancestors were involved... guess what? They're not me and I don't bear any responsibility for anything they did! Crazy, I know.

So I say that an incident of racism against blacks offended me, and you say this is because I'm a hypocrite and have guilt complexes. Even if this were true, the racism is STILL wrong. That you criticize me for being offended by racism... I don't know what to say about that.

But according to your theory, social environment doesn't influence people's behaviour at all. It would follow that adults who act rude do so because they're rude people, no matter what they have or don't have. At least try to be consistent...

A++, You sir are correct

Also genetic factors appear to be influenced by environmental, predisposition to a genetic trait does not ensure activation sololy. (Psychological perpective)

wow that made me laugh deep down inside and hopefully this is sarcasim. They still do have rights in the constitution but certian right adults have they dont have untill their an adult. But they still have due process of law(Juvenile court) and right to have an attorney/parents attorney etc.

but anyway I think anet needs to take these immature peoples racial slurs etc more serouisly. Also, sometimes kids get this from ignorance of thier parents make them think its okay to say these things like racial slurs and other offending things in the video game and in real life. Finally thier peers/parents need say something about and correcting them with out going down to there level.

To some degree, assuredly.

However, as I said before, there is a certain standard for polite society. Constitution or not (since we're talking a global GW community).

My grandma, wise woman that she was, always said that you should start children out as you mean them to end up. In other words, if you expect them to be polite, considerate, non-self-centered, etc., then you should raise them with the morals and lessons to teach them to be such.

Society (at least in the US) for the most part is failing miserably and has been for several years now. Blame it on media baby-sitting (which goes back to parents), governmental nannying, economics, whatever. Fact of the matter is, our younger generations (and I'm talking primarily the early 20s and under) are spoilt brats who have been allowed to believe they are owed anything they want without earning it and who increasingly denigrate any sort of polite society that may have been. :shrug: Not all, but certainly a majority.

.....certainly, but with that prevailing attitude, it will remain "facked" and where will that get us?

~Falcon

I don't let other people's immaturity bother me cause I'm having too much fun playing the game.

Ok, i hate the immaturity and crap that exists in GW, but there is a difference between immature and vulgar.

"Hey, wanna see my super cool new dagger, huh! wanna see wanna see wanna see???? hey look at me!!!!!! I'm dancing with my new daggers!!!!!!!!!!" is immature. It's expected from a 10 year old.

"Hey, your mom %^&#%$^#@ my ^&$% last night " is vulgar and shouldn't be tolerated in a game that's rated T for Teen. But, I can't blame A-net. They have put filters in place and if an A-net employee spots such chat they usually warn or ban the offender. The problem is that this is a free game with no monthly fees so 24/7 moderators are not going to ever be available. Instead I blame the moronic parents that let their precious little darlings get away with this behavior both online and in real life. These kids were raised to believe that this is acceptable and will get them what they want and anyone who objects is simply a prude.

However, I must say this. Guild Wars is a lot better than some other games I've played. I recently left a different online game because of this issue. This particular game was rated E for Everyone and was primarily marketed to the 8-13 year old age bracket, however it was played and enjoyed by all ages. The online chat there was horrible. There was no chat filter and almost every sentence included the 'F' word and the main chat consisted of everyone attacking everyone else. It was impossible to hold a decent conversation in any of the open chat rooms.

One player in particular was especially vicious. Let's call him Bob. Bob is an adult (Yes, I'm about 95% sure of this), but Bob had a very nasty temper and a foul mouth. Bob was a very good player (although many suspect him of hacking and cheating) who won about 80% of the games he played. If you played a game with Bob you could expect a long string of nasty insults if you won followed by about 10-20 PMs full of more insults. If you lost, you could expect long strings of harassment telling you to go kill yourself because your playing skills were obviously not up to the minimum standards of the human race and you didn't deserve to live.

I know most would say that the obvious solution was just not to play with Bob, but this wasn't possible in the game format. Most games and tournaments matched you with a random opponent in the game. Much like most PvP matches in GW.

A friend of mine recently found out that his mom had Breast cancer and was diagnosed with about 6 months to a year to live. He played the game a lot and for him it was a way to escape some of his real world problems, like most of us. He had the misfortune of playing Bob and he beat Bob in a match. Bob sent him an e-mail telling him to "Go shoot his ^&#$ mother for giving birth to something as moronic and stupid as him and then to go shoot himself." My friend e-mailed back that his mom had Breast Cancer and please LAY OFF!! Bob replied that he was very glad his mom was sick and hoped she died painfully. Bob continued to e-mail my friend each day with increasingly vulgar e-mails concerning his mom.

My friend kept the e-mails and sent them to the game support staff as did most of his friends on the forums. Nothing was ever done. He never even got a reply from support.

Unfortunately, Bob wasn't the only player like this in the game. There were many more just like him, however he was one of the worst. This was a really fun game to play but it has very few players except the idiots today. Would I allow my 9 year old to play? NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER!!!!

So, in closing (if someone is still reading this. Sorry, I know I tend to ramble) I can't really gripe about Arena Net. I've seen much much worse in online games. A-Net does have a chat filter. It will never be perfect. There are ways around every filter. A-Net support does read e-mails concerning ingame violations and they do take action if it's appropiate.

Actually, no sarcasm. Minors have NO constitutionally granted rights. The "rights" you mention are granted by individual states: There is no constitutional provision specifically for juvenile courts. From Cornell Law School website specifically: "Juvenile law is mainly governed by state law and most states have enacted a juvenile code. ... State statutes creating juvenile courts and providing methods for dealing with juvenile delinquencey have generally been upheld by courts as an acceptable extension of state police power to ensure the safety and welfare of children. The doctrine of parens patriae authorizes the state to legislate for the protection, care, custody, and maintenance of children within its jurisdiction.

The federal role in the field has largely been that of funder and standard setter. Congress passed the Juvenile Delinquency Prevention and Control Act in 1968."

A little education goes a long way.

Now, how do we educate these nastiness offenders in GW that their behavior is offensive and unacceptable?

~Falcon

I can go out and kill someone right, because I can. Does that make it right? If people become desensitized to that type of talk, what is to say it won't carry over to real life.


It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

Sorry to quote part of your post, and take it out of context. I do agree with the rest of your post.

For a while I thought #2 above was the answer to this problem. But after thinking about it, I realized that EULA's, age ratings on packages, parental controls on games, TV, even the volume on an iPod, leads to the "absentee parenting" that is really part of the problem.

Parental controls allow a parent to think "I don't need to worry about what my kid is watching on TV or seeing online because I set up that nifty control thingie," rather than actually paying attention to their kid and interacting with them. In truth, I think any parent of at least average intelligence knows deep down that their kid can find out how to get around these things anyway, they are just there to mitigate guilt for bad parenting.

immature kdis hurt any game digital or in real life. ignore them. dont argue or call them names, pretend they dont exist. drives them bonkers!

and when you log off after having ignored them. :-) report them

Just like when the WTS spam gets too much I just shut off the chat. I am a parent and it does worry me a little seeing what is being said. In fact one time I read people talking about sex mixed with address on were to go etc… Do people not understand that sexual predators play video games to.

Kids are kids and they will find other means to chat like this especially in today’s techno world. GW is an easy not often thought of means of communicating.

Fact of life. A asshole will always remain one. U cant say in ur work life u dont know assholes. Well, trust me, he was always like that. I dont feel im a child but i am in the younger section of players. At 17 i can also say there are people who ruin a game, but these same people are what make real life just as annoying. Welcome to reality, hope all sees you well. If you get lost in your endovours remember, a ass will be a ass, but there are pleanty of people who dont have a ego so big it emmits a gravatational force.

And yes, i do realize that the word asshole my be in fact immature but it decribes these people to a tee.

The title of this thread should be changed to "Immature Players" as there are many that play this game that are older than the "kiddy age" and are still complete asshats.

It is an online game. You are going to run into retards. Deal with it.

imo when it comes to the kids in this day and age...yes it is quite true that quite a few (not all) have that gimme gimme attitude and are basically never expected to give anything in return. they believe the are owed everything just...cause, and this is seeing this behavior in my won family (cousins and whatnot.....no kids in my immediate family anymore) and from what ive seen there are a few big factors for this behavior.

1:society
everyone is telling all the newer parents how to raise their kids but now everyone has this....complexity about their kids that they are perfect lil angels who could do no wrong and im sure when they do something wrong its just an accident. case in which my cousin stole a pocket knife from me (note he is 8 friggin years old...stealing a knife) he pulls it out to show his friends saying its his blah blah...i ask where he got it from. he says i dont know i brought it from my mothers house. i said hunh...funny cause my knife just up and went missing...afterwards i show him and his father the case that goes with it. he says ok and gives it back...ok everything is fine at this point...he knows he stole it and he got caught end of story. but his father in a pinacle of his own self righteousness holier than thou attitude says "well his friends probably just thought it was his and put it in his backpack" to which i reply... the only things his friends do are take his things and leave them everywhere...let alone put em back. a lil note about his friends...they too are raised on the perfect lil angel mind set...and given everything they want and then some and really dont care who they piss off to get it. thats one way i believe kids in this day and age are just lil heathens.

2:government city/state rules and regulations, etc etc
the government has become more and more involved in how everyone raises their kids since the baby boomer age (1945-1965) what with the car seats until your like 9 years old or whatever and cushioning everything cause god forbid a kid ever feels a slight bit of pain. back when i was a youngin i remember going riding in my fathers friend's truck in the middle of the desert...laying on a ledge in the window behind the back seat...no restraints whatsoever and being perfectly fine. in this day and age you can have a kid triple restrained if they weigh less than 80 pounds with them bouncing around the car like a ping pong ball. basically....we're being forced to baby our kids and take those extra lil precautions...and it doesnt take long for them to think that we now hafta hold their hands for everything.

3:the melting pot
now...once these kids come of elementary and middle school age...they are now interacting with hundreds of other kids raised on this philosephy....even if your kid wasnt. part of it rubs off...whether its wanted to or not. one day you may actually have a good kid that does what hes told and isnt a lil hellion about it either...the next day you start hearing the gimme gimme stuff and its all over.

so basically to actually raise a kid in this time era to be actually good....know what the word "no" stands for and does what theyre told and isnt a complete rude lil punk it takes some very good parenting and probably a little bit of luck too. now note...i did say most but not all kids and a lot of this even applies to adults as well so no one is really immune to it. just my $.02

As a 25 year old girl playing this game, I definitely think immaturity is a huge problem. I tend to play the game with local chat turned off, and often my alliance of the moment is really idiotic as well. Usually a bunch of young boys and men, and yeah girls too who are really just too stupid for their own good. These are the types of things you see online, people act out because there is alack of authority or whatever to react to their stupid behavior.

I suggest you find an 18+ guild or a small close knit one. It's even more annoying if you PVP because going on ventrilo and what not with these immature little brats is incredibly frustrating. :O It is a million times worse than dealing with idiots in text format lol.

All that being said, you're just going to run into that in online gaming, and it's just best to keep a friends list and play with people who you can tolerate.

I edited my original post saying I should have done just that.

tits or gtfo imo.

No, seriously, who's more immature: the people who use profanities a lot, or the people who whine copiously on the forums about it?

You should be kicked for a comment like that to a serious discussion.

I'm pretty damn sure that being abusive is againt the EULA, soooo flame bait the kids then screenshot and report the kids to your hearts content