Beware the "In-game Store"

Your numbers looked a little odd to me, so I did it myself. Also today.
Edit: Using the "Currency Calculator" http://www.x-rates.com/calculator.html

USD 29 = AUSD 33.27
BPS 17 = AUSD 39.93
Euro 26 = AUSD 41.46

USD 29 = 14.29 BPS ( a difference of near 3 pounds = $6)

The smallest difference is approx 6.50, and the larger 8.20.

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Edit: On the off chance that the above site wasn't reliable, I checked out the National Australia Bank:

USD 29 = AUSD 32.27
BPS 17 = AUSD 38.07
Euro 26 = AUSD 38.73

Still a difference in the area of $6. Since dealing with percents, the final dollar amount will have a greater difference for a larger purchase, like GW:EN - the desired purchase behind this promotion.
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Oh, and some people have been asking about it.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:...s_Mission_Pack
Gaile recognized concern with the pricing, and said she would bring it to the attention of marketing. She also referred them to the forums. I feel the more people aware of this imbalance (using currency values that date back to 2003), the more inclined the Marketing departments will be to revisit and update their pricing - maybe even use an exchange rate from some time in the current calendar year.

Here's a small collection of data. GW:EN prices around the world.

US Online Price - $39.99 US
US Store Price - $39.99 US
UK Online Price - 24.99 GBP
UK Store Price - 24.99 GBP

Now for Australians:

AU Store Price - $49.95 (EB Exclusive, No one else has it in retail)
AU Online Price - 24.99 GBP = ~AU$58.50 + fees

WTF?

Must have something to do with the MASSIVE expenses incurred by sending an access key to your email inbox. Clearly far more costly than sending a box over the ocean to the other side of the planet.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the "Online Store" is it not in the USA? If not where is it located?

Hi CC...

Okay. I'm not going to quote your post since it's lengthy. I'll just point up. Interesting stuff and good points. I now understand your history with PlayNC much better. And I don't believe you should accept that last response from the support team at all. I suspect it was one of their formula answers and wasn't appropriate to your situation at all.

Seems like all you have to do is point out to the support folks (probably more than once before they finally get it) that your master account is paid in USD and you want the US in-game store window as well. It can be so frustrating trying to get a real answer from them, but it seems like if you present them with the facts and refuse to accept their inappropriate formula answer, you'll get the fix you need.

Last question... how do you know what the in-game store and online store are going to charge if the product isn't there yet? It's not in the US store anyway. Would you mind posting the url(s) for this information for me?

Thanks!

EDIT:

I used the currency converter at concierge.com and just now re-entered my figures thinking I might have made a typo, but it returned the same answer. hmmmm. The bank converters are probably more accurate.

The ingame and online store will be charging the same price as issued in the press releases. Gaile stated this elsewhere. It was the source for many people arguing that if they aren't getting the box, the price should be lower.

THe European Press Release (English):
http://eu.guildwars.com/press/article/gwen_pr/
Lists price at L24.99/E34.99 (sorry, i don't have keys for Euros and Pounds)

North American Press Release (English):
http://www.guildwars.com/press/relea...2007-07-02.php
Lists price at $39.99 and E34.99.

Gaile has stated on Guru and GWOnline that these are the prices that will appear in the online store. If we were to raise this problem *after* the prices appeared, it would be far more difficult to have the problem remedied for any who make the purchase upon release. This is why I feel it is important to raise these issues *before* they are actually released in the online store. An ounce of prevention, as it were...

i will give you an actual polite, accurate, and officially confirmed reason for the instore prices and why they will not be changed.

NCsoft is the owner/producer of GW and has set a MSRP (Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price)

the NCsoft store like any other manufacturer will only sell at MSRP if they sell to the public at all.

the retailer can sell at/above/below the MSRP as demand for the product allows.

most of the time it is below MSRP to pull customers from competing stores by a lower price.

if the manufacturer sold below MSRP they force the retailer to meet/beat that lowered price cutting a thin profit margin thinner.

the online store would in effect be undercutting retailers litterally worldwide and force many stores to take a loss or not carry it which would reduce market retail exposure of the product.

i will buy GWEN in the online store as my account was locked in from the first slot i bought.

Gamestop has a package deal of preorder/GWEN for MSRP same price as the oline store.

my savings on shipping/handling/taxes will be 10 dollars US and pocket change.

i think that is a very nice saving and would do it even without the bonus missions.

hat is why they will not discount the MSRP at the NCsoft store

Yeah the UK prices are out of kilter with the exchange rates since there's no shipping costs involved. Not the best marketing plan to piss off half (or more) of your user base either. Good to hear Gaile is addressing the issue with the marketing/sales team.

When I was doing all the research on the PlayNC site, I read that prices are subject to change with 30 days notice. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Now I wait to hear a report of your progress with the account support team.

PS... I just read Loviatar's response which makes a lot of sense. Yikes... it's the proverbial rock and hard place. Don't want to piss off your distributors either. I guess now we'll have to wait and see now.

That's why I hate when bigger companies take over games. NCsoft should back off and let Anet run things. It's ANET's game and after NCSoft sorta took over, the online store/support/email and password change got really confusing.

NCsoft did not *sort of took over* they were the owners of Anet many years before GW was even released

Anet is the game maker NCsoft is the owner/publisher which supplies all the equipment/servers that Anet as a start up company could not have afforded

they did not take over GW as Anet is making it not NCsoft

sheeshhhh

Then perhaps NCsoft should re-examine the MSRP before it hits the shelves, while there is still time. Clearly this global product is not priced in a balanced fashion in the global market.

Where is the proof that EOTN will be $25 i english pounds? If you consider it's US$40 and Euro$35 it should be $20 in english pounds...

It should be 20 pounds... but it's not. It's 25.

http://eu.guildwars.com/press/article/gwen_pr/

There's the proof. I guess shipping a few megabytes and sending an e-mail costs a whole lot more than shipping a box with paper manuals and a CD halfway around the world like CC said.

The european prices were calculated using the VAT, which is near 19%.
In America they only use sale taxes, which are around 7%.

So the question is: What taxes has ANet to pay, when you purchase from the online shop?
I am pretty sure that a purchase in an online shop, stationed in America is treated like a purchase in a brick-and-mortar shop in America, which would mean they pay 7% taxes on goods, that were priced with 19% on the mind.
Does anyone have any clues about that?

If you dont like using the Anet online store, and you find it hard to purchase GW games from local stores, then I suggest you use playusa.com or play.com.

They take a bit longer to get the games into stock after release, but they are always cheaper then the Anet store and they have excellent service and delivery times.

Also free delivery.

You always have alternative choices to using the Anet online store.

I can't really speak for anyone else, but with the mission bonus pack promotion, which may or may not be an exclusive bonus for the period that it is offered now (it could be offered later for a fee, but no one apart from Anet really know whether they will offer this pack in any other way), it really offers incentive to use the online store to buy GWEN. I have no problem with the store itself. Sure, it has some problems with security, or the lack of, but I'm not really worried about that. However I am worried that if I want to take advantage of the same promotional offer as everyone else, I have to pay more for the expansion. I'm a uni student, and I work two four hour shifts a week. So I don't really want to spend more money than I have to to get the expansion, a prerelease bonus pack, and preferably a bonus mission pack as well.

I just don't understand why the Australian and European players have to pay significantly more for exactly the same product as US players are going to get for (I feel) a reasonable amount.

thats all well and good, but that "Global market" as you put it, doesn't exist... each country they sell the product in has different taxes and inflation rates and this is why there is a difference in price between countries...

This has been happening for the last few years in the music and DvD online sales market with companies like CD-Wow now being taken to court and fined the cost of the taxes into the country they are importing (UK) for selling non UK products into the country and bypassing the price hikes that selling in the UK cause

As far as I'm aware, online purchasing depends on taxes where the customer lives. I live in Oregon, therefore no sales tax. But when I buy stuff online and if I hit Ohio or Oklahoma on the way to Oregon, sales taxes pop up.

I may be wrong, but tha'ts my guess.

Personally I will never get the Mission Bonus Pack because I refuse to pay RRP on the online store for GW:EN, when I can get it from play.com or game for around £17.99.

Chances are that GW:EN will cost around £29.99 on their online store and thats too much for me, even for a game I love.

Unlee Anet make the MBP available with GW:EN in stores or as a stand alone product at a cheap price, im not touching it.

QFT.

This whole forced pound purchase is pissing me off royally.

Loviatar's post explaining why the UK price won't change in the in-game store

A perfect illustration of his point... Prince angers retailers with his giveaway

If NCSoft lowers the UK price of GWEN in the in-game store below that of the retailers, they'll elicit responses similar to this...

"'The Artist formerly known as Prince should know that with behavior like this he will soon be the Artist Formerly Available in Record Stores,' said Paul Quirk, co-chairman of the Entertainment Retailers Association..."

How uncanny this is happening in the UK as well.

no for the following reason made more clear.

even at the present MSRP the retail market (Gamestop for me) has lost a customer for GWEN as they are having to add S/H/TAX to their price which puts a 10 dollar and change PREMIUM on using Gamestop.

they (Gamestop) would have to cut their profit margin by over 10 dollars just to equal the final cost as it stands now.

if the online store gave for example only a 25% discount (my 10 dollars) here is how it would stand for the retailer who accounts for literally 99+ per cent of game sales.

retailer has to cut prices first down to the NCsoft discount price

retailer has to cut prices further to match/beat other retailers

retailer has to charge customer shipping/handling/TAX on top of those price cuts

the store is a convenience item for those who

cant get it otherwise

dont wish to pay extra for S/H/TAX

dont care for the box contents for this item

convenience

the retailer is almost their total market and Anet/NCsoft will not undercut the MSRP forcing the retailer to cut slim profit margin to match

hope this is more clear

Loviatar, I understand what you are saying, but A-Net isn't even matching their OWN price. The initial price listed for the European release is higher than the price in North America.

As to taxes, if the taxes are based on the location of the consumer, they should not be included in the list price, as consumers in Canada (me), and Australia (Fr3ak, Onarik, and Meat Axe for a few) will have different taxes that should be added to the purchase on top of the balanced list price. If taxes are based at the retailers location, with an online store they could locate the retail operation at a server in any country they choose with NO taxes. Again, no taxes included in the list price.

As to building a bad report with commercial retailers. They are already doing this by offering an exclussive incentive to purchase in the online store. No retailer can offer you the same content as the online store. The only possible way they can compete is to lower their price below MSRP, or rely on people's "need" to have a tangible box in hand. At least one incident has already been recounted where a player has walked into a retailer and cancelled their pre-order.
---
Retailer: Why are you cancelling?
Player: Because the publisher is offering additional content for the same price online.
R: They what? (Retailer runs to back room, picks up phone, and starts yelling at distributor).

And no one says they have to build bad report with the retailers by lowering the MSRP to reflect a balanced sale with North America. Lowering the MSRP should be paired with lowering the wholesale to retailers. It was NCsoft that over priced the game to begin with, they should be the ones to make up for it. And if people do indeed buy from the online store in large numbers, then NCsoft will be pulling in a much larger profit margin than they did with the first release due to noteably reduced overhead.

Edit: On shipping: Amazon UK, and Amazon.com both offer free shipping on GW:EN. And the UK 17.98 Pounds is far more competative a price with the North American list price.
Edit the Second: If they lowered the MSRP to 20 Pounds and 30 Euros, Retailers with prices like the one above wouldn't have to change their price at all. They are already beating the MSRP (just by a smaller amount now).

So everyone seems to be helpful and backing up one side or the other...maybe some help here.

I have 2 accounts one for me and one for my daughter. I purchased one through NC and the others retail. Have bought mule slots for both, no problem here.

A friend of mine came over and played HIS account on my computer and now through the magic of the all powerful GW/PlayNC online store...his account is linked to my master account. This wasn't even known until I had someone hint at stealing my account so I went to change my password(BTW, they should make that a hell of a lot more simple) only to find that there was no ability to do so. Sending email after email, conversing with someone at PlayNC, all my cd codes given only to find out that without HIS information they refuse to unlink MY account from HIS game. Thus I can not change any passwords on the other 2 accounts. This was inadvertently done by sharing my computer, and is unrepairable. My friend has let another person take over the account and he himself is in Iraq now. He didn't give the cd code to the person working the game now, and won't be home for 16-24 months.

So now what? And why would I trust them again? To me it seems logical to just unlink them, since its obvious that my games are mine and his game is not. Recourse when the account actually gets hacked because of lack of security????

So yes Buyer Beware!!

What it amounts to is very simple. As long as the store is able to keep Australians from being able to operate according to their own region they are deceptively profitting at the expense of Australian customers. It is actually something which should be looked into by the Australian equivalent of a US Attorney General's Office. If a sufficient number of persons throughout various areas, such as Australia, New Zealand, etc. are being ripped off because of policies which refuse to accurately treat their customers with respect to the legal jurisdiction of their residence merely for the excuse of convenience and with profit obtained, then there is a legal issue. It is a question of fair trade for the consumer and perhaps even some version of fraud, in the broad sense.

A few facts for you:

• Australia is "handled" by the UK office. They provide technical, account, and billing support, they handle distribution, and so forth. Therefore, the currency is British Pounds Sterling. This is not scheme to rip someone off, you see? You're being charged that currency for a reason. (And knowing Aussie prices, is it really higher?)
• It is highly unlikely that we will offer our products in Australian currency. Nor will we support Israeli currency or Namibian currency or Pakistani currency. We do not have offices in those countries and cannot possibly be asked, or expected, to support the hundreds of different currencies that are part of various countries around the world. Credit cards make the exchange from the accepted currencies to your local currency, thank goodness for all of us!
• If you are being charged in the wrong currency -- if you're paying in Pounds but you live in Ohio or Dollars but you like in Tokyo -- please contact support. It's really that simple, and I confirmed that today. Support can reset your region. OP -- Have you asked?
• Brute forcing an account is not possible any longer; it was made impossible some time ago.
• Being able to reset your game log-in when bound to PlayNC is being worked on.
• You are able to reset your PlayNC email address, as well as your password. You cannot reset your PlayNC account name, for security reasons.
• Tempy -- there is no way in the world that someone playing on your computer would be bound to your account. Not your game account; not your PlayNC account. Please contact support immediately -- they can help you. And please PM me your incident ticket, because I will follow up.

I will scan for more questions -- I hope these answers or comments are helpful. And may I suggest that it's very important that people know that much of what is in the initial post was inaccurate and has either been rescinded by the OP or has been corrected by others, including me.

Wow... Did Gaile just compare Australia to Israel and Namibia? That's a new low.

So from Gaile's perspective, yes, the UK Office is charging me an inflated price through the online shop for a reason. That reason is to rip me off. Thank you so much Gaile.

As for, the "is it really higher" part. Are you fricking blind? Every Aussie here and vouch for the price hike because of the currency conversion and the innately higher price from the UK.

Now READ THIS. EB who has a "special" exclusive partnership with you in Australia, and hence the only retailer that stocks Guild Wars is charging FIFTY DOLLARS. Not AU$58.50 + Conversion Fees.

/sigh. I have a feeling the absence of Alex Weekes is being felt.

My comments about currency were intended in a light-hearted way. As in "There are many currencies, and we cannot support each one." I am sorry if that was not clear to you or if you choose--and clearly there is a choice--to pretend high offense to a comment of this harmless nature. Most Aussies I know--and I know a lot--have a great sense of humour and would smile at the reference.

Again, you are distributed to and supported by the NCsoft Europe office. May I ask that you take your concerns up with them? Write them via support, clicking the (dare I say it?) English-UK option. NCE has set the price for the UK and for Europe as a whole, not ArenaNet. And you are writing (far more heatedly than you should) to the representative for ArenaNet, not your distributor, NCsoft Europe. (Do you yell at your baker if the newspaper is late? )

Let's be clear: Prices are not set based on any sort of conversion rate that I can divine. The price in the UK is proof of that, and I've taken that to several people out of concern, since it seems to me--personally--that the price is higher than it might be in a clearcut "dollars to pounds" conversion. But I'm not Marketing, and I'm not Sales, and that is the price that was set, which is out of my control as much as it is yours, and with my regrets. Again, I encourage you to address your concerns regarding the conversion rate and the UK price--which are tied together in this issue--with NCsoft Europe.

Thank you for understanding.

Thanks Gaile, for taking the time to weigh in on this issue. I really really hope you come back to the thread to read this:

That was in reply to this:

In short, I asked them a question, they gave me a muddy answer. I broke down my question into simpler questions in hopes of a a reply that was more clear. I sent in those questions again along with answers I was able to find after two days had passed with no reply (my ticket officially went "critical". I then was told "sorry, we can't do anything." Oddly enough that doesn't seem to jive with what you've said above, Gaile. Maybe "Mandy" wasn't in when they sent the whole reset your region policy out to the other agents.

So in short: Yes, I asked support. They said they can't. You said they can.

Me= Confused and angry.

Not surprisingly, I updated the ticket with a mighty angry letter demanding they take a second look. When my head cooled a bit, I updated the ticket again with an apology for my "heated" reply, a summary of the situation, and a request that the issue be escalated. My ticket is once again sitting in "critical" status... waiting for a reply.

So, any chance the people that you were talking to in support could talk to the people I was talking to in support and come out with some kind of consistant answer? Cause this is really starting to wear me out.

Yes, please take note that some of what I claimed in the OP was the result of misunderstanding. I have debated removing the erroneus information for the sake of overall clarity, but fear being accused of "revisionist history" practices. I'll think on that more, but please note that I have conceded to a partial misunderstanding. Any other "misunderstanding" (in regards to currencies and fees) is based on information I have received directly from support or Arena Net Press releases, and so I don't feel the source there to be a problem.

WTF! indeed, If America can pay in USD then why can't we? Your saying the reason we can't pay in Australian Dollars is because you don't have an office here, well let us pay in USD since you have an office there. This is blatantly ripping off us Aussies simply because you can't be bothered changing what we have to pay in, as you said the Credit Card does all the conversion for you, SO WHY ARE YOU COMPLAINING ABOUT AUD? It'll convert if for you no problem there, but it might rake you in slightly less cash instead of forcing us to pay slightly more!? Blasphemy!

Just let us pay for the game, which you want purchased directly from you, in American Dollars or Australian dollars, god just not the stupid pounds.

Well I guess you don't know us as well as you think. Sure we joke around and have a sense of humour, but no, we don't like being compared to 3rd World countries, thank you.

Another thing. No, I don't yell at my baker if the paper is late. But, lets say said baker charges me $3 for a $2 paper. Darn right I'll yell at him.

I did submit a support ticket. Their response was unsatifactory and went I sent a follow up they didn't reply first. And then when I sent a second inquiring about changing the details on my master account, which I have never used and don't even know the user name, they sent me a standard reply asking for all my details, without actually telling me if changing them would actually change my billing currency. Which, then, leads me to posting on these forums and getting conceited replies from you. Yay!

CC -- I am really, really surprised you got that response. Mind PMing me the Incident number(s)? I will follow up on this, because I was also surprised when Mike told me they will reset one's region upon reasonable request, and I actually said I thought that wasn't being done (based on your comments, amongst others).

Anyway, yes, they are supposed to reset it. They are telling us that it will be reset. Let me follow up; I'll look for your PM. Mind you, this is not something I can "handle." I'm not NCsoft; I'm not account support. But I can advocate for you, and I will.

Because you are not in America and that is not the studio but the publisher that has arranged this. Please write to NCsoft and express your concerns.

Onarik -- How unkind of you to make cruel comments about third-world countries. So you choose to take offense. Well, go for it if you wish, but it's a waste of time and whatever effort flaming costs you, because you're talking to the wrong person and I'm not able to do a thing for you.

I speak for the development team.
I speak for the design team.
I do not and cannot speak for the publisher, and it is the publisher with whom you have an issue.

So stop berating me, stop insulting me, and talk to the proper people, because I will not respond to you again.

Who are the right people to contact about pricing, what we have to pay in and conversion rates, and whether we can pay in USD or such?

I have PM'd Gaile my support ticket info. Gaile, thanks for stepping forward to advocate for me, as my direct interactions with support haven't been terribly fruitful. It would be a terrible shame if support were to claim one policy, and enact an entirely contrary one. Conjures images of Janus, to be quite honest.

As to the concerns of the folks in NZ and Aus(what we would affectionaly call "West Island"), I continue to be concerned about the discrepency in pricing. Gaile has given direction to the source of the problem, namely NCSoft Europe. Perhaps a number of us (hopefully a very large number) could create support tickets via the NCSoft Europe support site identifying the incongruent pricing with North America, and how we feel it is unjust. We could provide links to this thread and others like it that identify and clearly illustrate the discord in pricing, highlighting that the current pricing used in the store is more indicative of exchange rates from 2003, and that we would like them to update their pricing models to reflect the current year's economy.

Short of gathering lawyers and filing a class action suit, this is likely the best recourse. If it fails, we could always fall back on the lawyers , or boycott the online store. I know that I can't afford a lawyer, so if the my situation isn't addressed in a fashion I find satisfactory, I wont be making any further purchases in the online store - but that's just me.

Please write to support. If you're in Aus or NZ, I encourage you to submit a ticket and share your concerns via the Support Tab on the website, and then English-UK. This will route you to the NCE support team.

Now, mind you, I'm not advocating a mass letter sending campaign or anything of that type. But I want you to know the proper channels, and I am truly unable to do more than I have, which is point out the concern of the players and share my own thoughts. (Call it advocacy, and believe me, I do!) Now, there were discussions about pricing and decisions were made some time ago (I was not party to those discussions). Frankly, I think it's unlikely that there would be a change. But you can have a voice and you may write if you desire, by all means.

I wonder -- have exchange rates be varying a lot lately? Pricing can be decided months out -- could this exchange have been more reasonable in, say, January or March than it is now? That would be interesting to know!

Quite possibly :P Our dollar has jumped in worth compared to the American dollar as of late.....

Well, I previously looked this up, and since you asked...

I back tracked the currency exchange rates over the last few months... and then years. This year the Monthly average for USD:GBP has hovered around 1:0.50 (0.51 in January and 0.495 at present). The exchange rate witnessed in comparing the list prices of 39.99USD to 24.99GBP is 1:0.625. The last time the currency was exchanging at that rate was August of 2003 (the monthly average listed for Aug. '03 was 1:0.627457GBP). This is why I suggested that NCE revisit their pricing model to reflect the current year.

Currencies do change from month to month (to be honest, they change hourly), but countries like the UK, the USA, and many European countries have fairly stable economies. And barring unpredictable crises like the WTC attack in 2001, these currencies don't typically see sudden, drastic changes in short periods. They are relatively stable economies, and the trading value of their respective currencies is somewhat predictable. That the exchange rate between the USD and GBP has only altered by about 0.015 over the last 6+ months is evidence of that.

PS: Gaile, It's past our bedtimes.

Firstly I would like to point out the "good" side in this...

Because anybody here could and very easily do so, just go out and buy this game at retail either online or not then you have to bring to thought what it is that makes them so eager to use the store.

Well taking out the idea of Character Slots etc as if it was then this would have become an issue long ago it has to be the new idea of the bonus missions available ONLY from the in-game store.

Us Aus/Nz, or any other country besides EU/US, players just like everyone are just as passionate about Guild Wars as anybody else and when you make such a lore-full mission relating to a question that has puzzled people from the beging of Guild Wars [What Happened to Gwen btw if you were wondering :P] then of course they are going to take the chance in finding out.

They are of course going to find it every bit unfair that they are disadvantaged that they are charged that extra amount because of the country that they live in which is often in no way in their controll. Come on what difference should it make what country we are in isn't this an EQUAL world. [Well we at least like to think so]

So thinking about those topics etc there are many solutions to this ordeal.
One of which is to make another way that they can access the extra content because that is really what they are complaining about. Maybe include it with the CE Edition or something for Pre ordering. If they can't wait until then, then it will become their OWN decision to buy it via the in-game store just dont force them to use it which really is the cause of this palavor IMO

Something interesting my friend said.

"Selling the Bonus Mission Pack for $1 is better than getting it for free"

On topic. The British Pound has always been unfavourable to Australians.
Only recently has the Aussie Dollar risen against the US.

Gaile covered this... America is its own continecnt and NCSoft America covers America, Canada and that continent

NCSoft Europe (in Brighton, UK, may I add) deals with the ENTIRE European continant AND Australia and New Zealand... So this is why you get the elevated cost, because your continent has been lumped in with European and as such it doesn't directly deal with your currency

NCSoft Asia (as i recall has an office in Hong Kong) deals with the Asian market and so deals with the Asian currencies and even does GW as a P2P model...

People here also need to remember that ANet just make the game, thats all they do, NCSoft deal with the servers, marketting, packaging, sales, etc...