The event has been ruined by leavers

Lol @ this, I love Zinger for his/her pessimism and am starting to feel the same honestly.

He wasn't trying to attract attention, and he mightve seen enough posts to make an opinion. I know its late, but stick to the point.

Honestly, leavers dont bother me, but then again I havent played Random Arenas since Factions came out(switched to Fort Aspenwood+other ab battles).

They are a problem though, and I suggest that a limit of 5 leaves per two days to prevent leaving, if you break that limit, you are not allowed to enter the area you left so many times in for 1 day.

Not a great solution, but its something I have never seen suggested before.

EDIT: Also, to all of the people that just scoff and say who cares, RA is a part of the game and its something people enjoy, I dont care if you are elitist, but stop brushing off something many people feel strongly about.

Bah. I shouldn't loose my time refuting your sophisticated rhetoric point by point. Leaving thread takes time I could use to actually play.
You claim not to take a side yet you justify early leaving.
You claim to know a team before they play, saying leaving is fine when your whammo has 5 defensive stances yet you can't know what skillbars have your team and how skilled it is before the match begins. If you're not the monk, it is even harder to know what exactly are playing your teammates, because if you follow what skills they are using as, say, a warrior, that means you're not smashing your target.
Thus this argument fail for early leaving.

And the "they will loose anyway" argument fail for this exact reason too and some others. I have nothing against people leaving when the match cannot be won for sure (3 monks for example).
But you don't know before people start using their skills what is their bar and their skill level. Thus, you can't justify early leaving before the doors open.
You said that in leaver's mind people would loose anyway. But, most leavers don't leave because they can't win the match. They leave because they can't have a 10-win streak. Thus, they are are actually screwing other people for a potential victory, for a glad farming grindfest.
RA's not serious and a minor PvP part you say. On which I agree for the skill level and reward. But not on the number of people playing it. There is for sure a lot more people playing RA than HA or top GvG. Thus it's not so minor.
A-net banned local chat spammers. Still they were a minor annoyance, and moreover, you could turn local chat off. Do you wonder why they did that? For the exact same reason leavers in RA should be limited. I let you find the answer.
If you don't want ban on leavers in RA, would you agree on a remove of the glad points in RA to replace it by a victory title (I.e. a title counting the number of your victories wether they are 10-win or not)?
I don't care at all if I can't reap a glad point in RA. Half of my points come from TA.
Most leavers, still, don't want this because they can only hope to get their glads in RA, as they lack the team preparation (and maybe the skill?) necessary to compete in TA.

As in real life, the arrogance and lack of respect by the minority will ruin it for the majority.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
100% correct

Honestly stop making these stupid threads.

WTB Shiny lock.

iv heard alot on this issue
people say no glad points for RA or play as a monk or my favorite ban them from RA for 10 minutes if they leave but
Gimme Money Plzkthx said the best solution
DEAL WITH IT its going to happen nothing you can do

Of course they're still playing, they enjoy it, but leavers ruin alot of the fun. It is not Grossly overstated and is a major problem. Of course they're not here complaining, not that many people know about GWG. Leaving is not a style of play, it is a form of laziness and pointless, you want a constructed team, GO TO TA, don't leave in RA, where things are......dare i say it.....RANDOM!

I have been on my monk the entire weekend and haven't had more than 1-2 people leave so yeah, it hasn't been a problem for me. =S

Oh btw, ANet should perm ban anyone who says "noob leaver". Thx

With love,
~~

Its not a major problem until I see hard evidence because I don't have any. Minor issue? Maybe...although I never ever think about it. Major problem? No way.

You can't use this argument. I can simply say, if you don't want leavers, YOU go to TA. Why should I have to go when I already enjoy RA as it stands?

For many players, bad players, bad team mix, and no point to play ruins a lot of fun. That is why they leave. Why is anti-leavers' fun more important than theirs? It isn't.

I would say the opposite of what is stated in the quoted post here is true. I would say that playing in RA matches in teams that have zero chance of getting a Glad point is the form of laziness and pointless. Leavers, when they get a good team, actually take care to use good tactics & teamwork, bring good gear and good skillbars, and guide the team to winning. Which is a lot of work. However, anti-leavers do not do any of that work, they just wanna bash around mindlessly at some other players using no tactics, teamwork and not caring about having decent skillbars or gear.

Dare I say that RANDOM means you have allies who aren't going to do what you want, including not play with you if they don't want to. Anti-leavers can just as easily take their own advice and "GO TO TA", instead of trying to dictate that other players should be forced to play with them against their will.

Anet should just implement a lock-in mechanism for RA. Once on a team, you are on it until the match ends.
Then who cares if you are unhappy about your team and stand there sucking your thumb crying about "I don't like this team, I'm so psychically tuned to this game that I can tell before a match what is on your skill bar. I am too leet to go to TA where I need skill. I just want to come to RA and ease my way into a laughable title."
The point is that you will not have left so it will be random teams just like the designer intended.

how about this:
code it up such that, if someone leaves before the match starts, they are replaced by a hero with a class, equipment template, and skills template identical to the person who left.

thus, the problem of leavers is solved, without allowing abuse of the mechanic.

eudas

Only problem with that is people will still find a way to abuse it.

well, think of one

i mean,
* doesnt work after the timer, so ya, they can still leave after the timer and screw their team, but most leavers leave before the timer finishes counting down.
* it's not like you can get a different person if it copies their class/skills/eq exactly.
* you can't abuse it to get a hero with full hp/mana if it doesn't work after the timer.

that IMO pretty well covers the bases.

eudas

Could team with friends, and have the friends be what would help be the "perfect" team for their build. And end up having their friend's leave... idk I haven't been sleeping, I'll think of something better later lol.

So I was farming UW and thought to myself... I'm totally bored. Let's try RA again. But if soon as someone leaves prematurely... I would go back to farming.

Sooo. I enter a battle. We lose, no leavers. I enter another battle. Someone leaves.

Come on, man. Don't tell me this problem isn't huge. I see it happening all the time.

By the way I totally forgot Fort Aspenwood gets you some Balthazar faction, too. I think I'll play that instead. In the meantime, I'm hoping this leaver issue will get fixed. And no, removing gladiator points is not the solution.

Ra has constant leavers and is one reason i have no interest in playing there.
i wish i could, it sounds like a lot of fun, but i would rather farm, or do missions or even play a differant game, rather than get frustrated.

wish everyone would be more respectful to one another, yet after reading through the posts and replies on this site, i hold no hope.

Golden Rule: Treat others as you wish to be treated (forgotten or laughed at)
Platinum Rule: Do on to others as they Have done on to you ( common additude)

things need to change. gaming is supose to be about having fun, not ruining it for others or lessening their enjoyment.

fixt imo.


My message would be too short without this line.

if youre going to that much trouble, then
a) you shouldnt be in RA anyway, you should be in TA
b) it wouldnt be any different than if your friends stayed
c) your friends are more intelligent than the hero/henchie AI, so you'd be gimping yourself by having them leave. usually.

eudas

Some, maybe. Others, no.
Personally, I'd much rather have Norgu than many of my friends mesmering.

OH!!!!! Being a mesmer and the worst interupter you'll ever see (3/4 because of the player, 1/4 because of internet issues), I LOVED that one!

It's funny how so-called competent PvP-Players state that RA is fine as it is and there shouldn't be any measures taken to remove the leaver problem, and once you log in you see them either sync in INT or play there for hours including frequent leaving. Bunch of retards.

You just noticed the leavers and leachers?

Evidence mr name caller (notice how all name calling is coming from anti-leavers yet)? I consider myself a competent PvP player and I think changing RA for a few complainers is ridiculous. I am not a habitual leaver/syncer either. I just like the arenas as they are and think all the people complaining either need to bring me some hard evidence or go elsewhere.

This weekend in my opinion brought out the best in RA. I had more good matches this weekend than I have had in quite a while in RA. I found even LESS leavers this weekend than I ever have before (which weren't numerous to begin with). I didn't even play monk all weekend and I only had maybe 2-3 leavers all weekend after tons of games. A lot of monks came out for the event and there were less one sided smashings as well. Good event IMO.

OK, lets try to analyze this interesting breed of GW players called "RA leavers".
1. goal: getting a glad point
2. way: getting a good team via multiple tries and instantly leaving every team they don't approve as one
3. motto: "cya noobs"
4. self justification: "We play to win!"/"We're Spikes!" (check this article to get a hold of this MtG specific lingo)
5. Reason for not playing in TA "It's way harder to get a glad point there" (~99% of them)
6. attitude: they don't give a damn about their team
7. why do they leave before the battle even starts: because they can go it and suffer no consequences or whatsoever.

So, I suppose that's everything we need to know about them.
Btw. here goes a small sidenote: why do people hate levers? Lets face the truth, leavers are not breaking any rules, they are just using the game features to their advantage trying to get all they can get in shortest time available. Well... the answer is simple. Because they don't care about other people, acting in arrogant and selfish way.
Ok, back for our primary target. For the starters I want to make a comment On "We play to win!" part. Well, basically it's true. They really do. But if they think that it equals to David Sirlin's "Play to win" from his "Playing to win" articles, they're terribly wrong. Sirlin spoke of path of self improvement, not of the path of least resistance. Next goes the "Spike" part. Do RA leavers belong to "Spike" type? I'm not so sure. "Spike" seeks challenge. RA leavers don't. They are more like "Timmy" IMO. They play to get this sweet feeling of overwhelming power by stomping over bad teams and clueless players.

So, after I delivered this nice kick to RA leavers ego, lets have a look at possible solutions mentioned in this thread (random order).

Lock the ability to enter RA for a fixed amount of time for the leaver
possible consequences:
Leavers number: it will decrease drastically
negative effect on people with real life issues and bad connection: fairly minor.
leaver behavior: probably some will try to get their team killed instead of just leaving. Some will just stand there waiting for everyone to die... or win. Most likely most of them will leave RA for good. Or will charge the enemy as fast as possible to get a fast win/loose and leave team.
possible outcome: seems to be more or less OK

Lock the ability to leave once until the match ends
possible consequences:
Leavers number: will decrease... a bit
negative effect on people with real life issues and bad connection: almost none
leaver behavior: they will stop mapping out and start doing it by closing GW and simulating disconnects
possible outcome: not all that great

Faction penalizing for leaving
possible consequences:
Leavers number: doesn't change
negative effect on people with real life issues and bad connection: fairly minor
leaver behavior: no change
possible outcome: no change at all

Glad point penalizing
possible consequences:
Leavers number: decreasing significantly
negative effect on people with real life issues and bad connection: painful
leaver behavior: lots of them will turn into suiciders/leachers
possible outcome: pretty bad

Remove glad points
possible consequences:
Leavers number: almost none left
negative effect on people with real life issues and bad connection: average (they loose a way to gain glad points)
leaver behavior: they will move to TA or disappear as a whole
possible outcome: seems to be more or less OK


So, bottom line: it's not like it is possible to fully protect players from different methods of abuse but it is possible to scale down some of them. Different methods have different drawback but still it's better to try and do something I really hope ANet will take those options into consideration.


P.S. Whoa, that's quite a post I made… I wonder if it's worth separate topic

Nothing to do with the weekend, but I've just been doing some Random Arenas today, and more than 4/5 of the games there were leavers on my team.
Been playing Random Arenas few weeks and months ago and there was usually ~1 leaver in 1/10 games, plus a 50/50 chance to win a game. This has become ridicilous. I can't even play Random Arenas anymore without a fair, random 4 vs. 4 match most of the time now.

OK, just started some games.
1st game: 3 leavers on my party
2nd game: 3 leavers on my party
3rd game: 2 leavers on my party
4th game: 0 leavers, and lost the match
5th game: 2 leavers on other party
6th game: 0 leavers, and lost the match
7th game: 0 leavers, and lost the match
8th game: 0 leavers, and lost the match
9th game: 0 leavers, and lost the match
10th game: 3 leavers on other party
11th game: 0 leavers, and lost the match
12th game: 1 leaver on my party, and won the game

The Introduction of the Gladiator title is the freaking reason for this.

This is what happens when you add such questionable titles/rewards to a game after you already developed the basics. Without thinking of the consequences.

The other problem is: Does RA become more fun when you can get a title for playing there?


Not at all. People would simply not play there.


Can the problem be solved? Not sure if time penalties for joining would be a solution.

Just call it a flawed game mode no one should bother about. Just like Hero Battles, but that it is my opinion. The problem is the fun arena for casuals is not really fun.

So much about a game that was supposedly designed around PvP - the greatest lie about GW, it shows in so many variants and aspects of GW that it did not work out.

Of course, because the other party has no reason to resort to name calling. The anti-leavers aren't the ones exhibiting lazy, anti-social jackass behavior. The leavers are.

A case could be made that anti-leavers are indeed doing that to as much if not a greater extent than the leavers are. The Warrior anti-leaver with Meteor Shower and Charge doesn't give a darn about the players' fun that he is ruining by not bringing something to the table that has any hope of ever winning 10 in a row. Therefore he is being anti-social and exhibiting jackass behaviour against players who play for an actual purpose, ie: to win a Glad point.

I'm not sure if you made this example solely as a response to the earlier post, but it's really annoying being tagged as unwelcome in RA because we play for fun and not to grind titles.

I'll have more luck fighting alongside a warrior with meteor and dolyak signet than I will fighting alongside a guy who leaves because I'm a ranger.

Just because you think playing RA is a waste of time if you can't farm titles in it, doesn't mean the rest of us feel the same way. I don't see why your opinion should hold more weight than ours in regards to what the purpose of RA is "supposed" to be.

Leavers and Anti-Leavers that demand others should bend to their will, are as bad as each other.

Its really annoying being tagged as unwelcome in RA because I play to win instead of playing for fun. Why is your view more important than mine, especially when I enjoy RA as it stands and am not complaining about it?

And I said elsewhere in another thread that I played easily over 100 games on the weekend and saw less than 10 leavers total...2-3 of those on my team. You guys must be playing a different game than I am because I wouldn't call that a problem at all.

I'm not saying your view isn't, I'm only pointing out that both sides' opinion should hold just as much weight, just that the "if you don't play to grind titles, you're not doing it right" mentality doesn't apply to all of us. If we find leaving to be annoying, it is a problem. The only way you could claim that it's not a problem would be that our opinion doesn't matter.

I just tried getting some matches in before bed. It's off hours here in europe so RA wasn't exactly packed and you got the odd "no opposing team" dud. It was pretty much 4-5 teams worth of players wanting to play. Problem was, there were no monks around and everyone was constantly leaving trying to get one. It was kinda amusing getting a glad point with a leaver in my team about half the matches, since the other team always had 1 or more leavers. Out of the 11 matches we had, only 2 were symmetrical and those were 3v3's.

Honestly I find leaving annoying as well. I am simply in the "don't do anything stupid to RA" category because I don't think its a bad enough problem and I don't want to kill RA.

And you are right, I can't claim its not a problem if people are saying it is to them...unless of course I could prove it didn't exist which I can't. I can claim that the problem isn't large enough to warrant drastic changes though. These kind of claims would require research from multiple parties though and will never be thoroughly done. I'm just saying from my experience, that I don't think the problem is as horrible as some people claim.

Fair enough. We should probably leave this thread at that.

Hmm what was that other arena called? Oh yeah "Team Arena" roffle.

An event being ruined by idiots reaping the rewards without doing anything? OH NO!!


...what else is new?

FYI I have created a Poll about interest in possible RA changes in respects to Glad points. Have your statistical say here. Maybe this will help bring us all someway towards finding out some actual figures...

Intro:

There have been many threads about this, it would be useful to see the current actual statistical status of agreement for best solutions, in one place, so that something substantial and tangible may come of all the discussions. I believe this is more useful than a couple of very vocal people on either side of the 'argument' deciding what is and isnt fact, resulting in threads going round and round without actually getting anywhere definitively.

Premise - the current RA system is slightly flawed in such that some people can choose to circumnavigate the randomness that RA is supposed to include, for the purpose of attempting to gain points in a title track easier than should be possible.

Aim = improve enjoyment for players who don't like to experience intentional leavers, by reducing the incentive for people to leave, while balancing the reward for Title track advancment.

Poll - All Random Arena Suggestions to date - Glad Points / Leavers

By the same token, anti-leavers should not think that just because they have fun playing for no point, that everyone else feels the same way and therefore is obligated to play with them. Anti-leavers pretty much always want their opinion to hold more weight than leavers' opinion in regards to what the purpose of RA is "supposed" to be.

Notice how the leavers did not start the uproar about this issue on the forums, or call the anti-leavers names/insult the anti-leavers all the time. Yet the anti-leavers started the uproar, and always call names to leavers.

Rather than doing all that, leavers just leave in-game and let the Warrior with Charge and Meteor Shower continue to play how he wants to in RA. Instead of trying to impose their will upon him.

That would seem to suggest on the whole, that the anti-leavers are the ones who far more often than leavers, think that their opinions have more weight and should be imposed on everyone else who does not agree with them.

No. By leaving, you are imposing your will upon him to fight 3v4. Thus, you impose a failing style of play to three others players. That's why you have an uproar and name calling to you.

Stop trying to reverse the situation.

AFAIK an exploit is knowingly using a failing in the system for personal gain(usually at the expense/discomfiture of others). The glad title is supposed to reward those players who demonstrate enough skill to earn it. Leaving repeatedly in RA could be very easily interpretted as an exploit to get a title without really earning it. It shows no skill to leave repeatedly until you find a team to suit your needs. You are exploiting the fact that the other team will be random thereby easier to defeat.

In the above example about the bad warrior, maybe it is his first trip into PvP land and doesn't know any better. he never will when all he has for constructive criticism is "l8r n00b". wow, that helped huh. anyway, repetative leaving = exploit = banned account. Stand up and earn your title. Stop trying to exploit the system for your own non-skilled benefit.