How to drive away hard core collectors in pve

You're out of line.

And when it's imbalanced. I don't care about the fact that you might own one and promise on your boyscout merrit badges not to use them.

The inscription system works and it works well; it should be ported over to the other two campaigns so it's not locked in to just one.

not to burst all the hardcore collectors bubbles but item collection in guildwars in pointless.

if you have something you consider rare, anets bound to make it readily available in some future update.

most hardcore collectors have already left the game because guildwars doesnt really cater to them.

most people that play wont pay a boat load more for a certain skin just because it has perfect inherent stats if theres an inscribable version with the same skin.

---Mind you 95% of the time I shoot for greens - Easily farmable/cheap---
---Nor do I do much in Prophecies - and certainly not own any high priced weapon of Tyria---

That said. Leave it be.

"But it's better for the economy. More people can afford them!"
--> If you can't afford it in the first place, should you really be buying it?

Think about the reverse.
What if weapons you currently have that are inscribable were made un-inscribable?
What would be the first thing you think of?

"OMFG what weapons do i have that will suddenly jump up in price 10 fold because they're no longer inscribable?!?! Uhmm! Uhmm!!!

You certainly wouldn't say
"Well. My inscribable ______ is worth about 300k. But to make it uninscribable and suddenly it turns into a 800k _____. Nah, leave it how it is"


Moral of the story/thread: Nay sayers don't own any of the weapons in question and if they did, they'd be on the other side screaming "OHES NOES DONT CHANGE EM!!!"

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First thing I thought of as some have mentioned, make inscribable weapons now drop in prophecies and factions but leave the old ones as they are.

[QUOTE=Loviatar]if you want, i'll give you a vamp 5 bow string for free. i got a ton of them and its not worth the time to sell them.

i can only hope that they do make some of the more common such as the limited mini pets. i'm making a collection just since i'm a completionist in gamest. the amount of time it took me to get enough gold and ectos to buy kanaxai, panda, island guardian, roller beetle, shiroken, oni, yeti, and naga was fairly ridiculous and with my current work schedule, I know I won't be able to get enough to buy the remaining minis for a long time.

I have never understood why people choose to pay so much more for low req items. As Herbalizer said, if you're going to be using a weapon you're going to have high attribute points in it anyways and if you're a caster, what are you doing wanding for damage anyways? For the things that are high priced now, they're either on dead accounts (the unconditionals) or very limited in numbers such as the Asian minis, the Rollerbeetle, and the Ghostly Hero.

For the Asian minis and the Rollerbeetle, they'll eventually reach a high enough price to the point where traders won't even bother trading them anymore as they'll reach the max amount tradeable and collectors won't sell anymore. I've already received multiple offers of 100k+1750 ectos for my panda and kanaxai that I've turned down since I know that if I do sell, I won't be able to replace them again.

For the collector who only goes after rare things, you already need a large amount of money. Anything in the 1 million range isn't that hard to achieve since as others have said, 1 million isn't that hard to get. The reason why people think its hard is that they're limiting themselves to farming to gain money when trading is oh so much more profitable.

I can afford plenty of thing, thankyouverymuch, I just choose not to waste my money on overly rare less flexible stuff.

This would be dumb because the inscription system is better in every way. I'd be pissed if they made all my stuff uninscribable. I actually replaced many of perfect uninscribable weapons with inscribable ones when Nightfall came out. (Mostly on casters) Yeah.

I do own some very shiny, nice perfect tyrian skins, with a low req to boot. I was forced to buy the things a year ago when I didn't have other options. Whether I own shinies or not has no bearing on whether I want future drops to suck. I'm enough of a nice guy that I can say "Hey, I have nice things, I'd be ok with other people having nice things, too. My ego is not crushed if someone else has good items."

While I'm clueless as to why you'd want your current weapons to suck more, I guess you can have it your way. I'm just sick of having nearly every drop in tyria and cantha being nearly worthless.

They might as well just make everything available at a merchant then. Then you can all buy your crappy items and then add your leet mods to go with it, no work or risk required.

Like, say, a weapon crafter? If they ever implemented that ingame, I would... hey wait a second.

That would totally suck if everything was at a merchant LOL. well its kidna close right now wit stuff being nearly worthless. if crystallines came there though......... another mans junk is anotehr's treasure right? well some ppls treasure are tyrian weapons, while it may be junk to ppl who hate them. why hurt alot of ppl jsut to please some? keep everything as is. im sure most players wont appreciate it more than the collectors.

Well Malice you forgot about a req 7 15% unconditional falchion. Unfortuante the merchant ate it long ago from lag along with my 3 req 7 and 8 15^50 FDS's lol. Was not a happy time for me then. But back to OT.

Just ask Lovitar and them what they think about 15k armors. But people should remember Vanity armors are the same as Vanity weapons. Both should be hard to get or easy to get. I swear people around here flip flop more than a mcdonalds cook at lunch time.

But I think its more due to the fact that some of them actually just want to pretend to have an E-Peen when they really dont and be able to gloat about it.

Thats the idea. Majority of drops inscribable, but few not.

Besides, if inscribables start to drop in Tyria/Factions, why the hell should collectors care? Their precious noninscribables will be most likely left intact and their value would rise even more.

Hahaha!! Oh man! "Pretend to have an E-Peen"? Did you really type that? Are you sure you know what "E-Peen" means?

wait... I have another one coming...


HAHAHAHAHAA!!

Whew! Thanks for making my evening a little brighter

Because people are willing to argue to the death whether their imaginary item is worth more or less imaginary gold

True, why do that - except that hurting a lot of people to please some is not allowing inscribeable weapons to drop in Tyria. There are WAY more people without high end ultra rare skins in Tyria than with - no reason to screw 99.9% of GW's populace to please a few who want to protect their precious shiny items (note, that is what the word "rare" means - people with them are in the minority). If you *really* feel that the above statement is correct (and your whole post is based on the above being the correct case) then you ought to be in favor if updated items. Pretending otherwise generally tends to have those in power write you off as a hack and a sever inability to see past your own nose - I'll assume you were knew the difference but thought we were all just stupid. Best to simply argue that you have something worth a lot of gold and do not want others to have it regardless of what it does to the rest of the players - the truth tends to be more effective, though neither case is very persuasive.

Just leave the old items non-inscribeable as is and all new stuff is updated - that way those that feel there is some great innate thing about non-inscribeable items and fear being screwed still have them and everyone else is also happy. Few carry any non-inscribeable items that are not exactly what they want nowadays anyway so I see no issue with it. Outside of a very few players non-inscribeable weapons are now worthless anyway (and only the very very top end in rarity - which puts them even further into the very small group affected adversely) - I would prefer mine be updated but it is no big deal, they are what I want anyway.

I cannto agree with you more strcpy. leave the old items non inscribale and jsut let the new stuff be inscribable.

Well, why not? Inscriptions make life in Guild Wars easier and cheaper. I don't care my req.8 Tyrian Fellblade will become 'worthless' if they'd make it inscribable, it still got the same stats and it'll finally be fully customizable.

lol yeap almost as funny as you refusing to do math. What else would it be about look in the loot scaling thread about helping casual players. They flip flop so much its rather hysterical. Saying Vanity armors should take months and months on end while vanity weapons should be practically handed over. It is after all nothing but vanity for looks. Unless your gonna try to explain to us why a perfect collectors is subpar to say a perfect High-End Vanity weapon. Come on we are waiting for your explainition or are you gonna refuse that too.

1. He was not out of line. Pointing out someone's lack of research / ignorance is not out of line. Especially when I have posted what I am about to do in threads you have posted in regarding the removal of unconditional weapons.

2. Here is a list of all the unconditional weapons I know of and their owners: -

Gold Max Dmg Battlepick R9 Dmg +14% - Bee65n - Inactive
Gold Max Dmg Cleaver R Dmg +12% - Customized - Inactive
Gold Max Dmg Dwarven Axe R12 Dmg +15% - Zrave - Customized
R12 14% Great Axe - Cap - Customized
R11 15% Great Axe - Haszek - Inactive
R8 15% Great Axe – Spil - Inactive
R8 14% Serpent Axe - Akh - Inactive

R9 14% Half Moon – Stuey - Wont Sell AFAIK
R10 13% Longbow – Rau sold to someone
R9 14% Short Bow - Cap

R 13% Break Hammer – Inactive AFAIK
R 14% Rams Hammer - Cooly - Inactive
R10 15% Shining Maul – Bee65n - Inactive
R8 14% Warhammer (PVP Skin) – The Herbalizer - Customized - Active

R8 13% Falchion – The Herbalizer - Customized - Active
R8 14% Flamberge – Delicate Beauty - Inactive
R9 14% Flamberge - Cooly - Inactive
R11 14% Flamberge - Inactive
R8 15% Forked Sword – Bee65n - Inactive
R10 13% Longsword - Cap - Customized
R11 13% Longsword – Bacon - Inactive
R10 15% Short Sword – Akh - Inactive
R9 14% Wingblade - Cooly -Inactive

Thats alot of inactive people and even when the people who own them are no inactive the weapons are usually customized. Chances of any new ones popping up now or inactive people becoming active are very slim.

There are so few unconditional weapons in the game it is very pointless and very very unfair to change them. Anet have allowed the trading of them since they dropped from Arid Sea chests shortly after the release of Guild Wars. They have allowed the price of them to rise and rise. The Serpent Axe was sold for 1000e Ectos or the equivalent of 7 million gold. The total traded to obtain them is well into the tens of millions. Now that would be highly unfair removing them.

They are no unbalanced in the slightest. Any player aware of game mechanics or weapon damage would tell you that non-unconditional weapons are better than unconditional weapons.

15>50 & 20<50 is superior to 15%

Anyone who is looking to maximize the amount of damage they do would not use unconditional weapons.

Players like to use different combinations of weapons such as 3/1 Vamp, Zealous, Elemental etc. Again this makes the use of unconditional weapons pointless.

All unconditional weapons are is abit of fun, something legendary to own in a game where there is nothing particulary special about weapons. Having slightly unusual and different weapons makes the game more interesting. There is a large amount of interest in them as I have received countless messages enquiring about them and I cant go a day in GW without several people asking to see them. Anet can remove them but it will just make the game slightly more boring and less exciting to players.

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I would say waaaay more than a few thousand. That is the number of players who could spending 1 million + gold on an item.

Many players dont however spend that amount as they buy lots of lower prices weapons, armours, mini pets etc. But if they wanted to they could.

In my guild alone 25 players (or around that number) at one time went to Grotto all in FOW armour. That is one guild out of all the Guild Wars and to get that amount of people online all with FOW armour is definately saying something. To make 1 million gold is not hard and can and has been accomplished by many. Therefore the number of millionaires must be alot.

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And to everyone saying the rich or people who care about uninscriptable items are in the minority, that is a very very dangerous view to have.

History has shown countless times how the majority have persecuted the minorities simply because they believed they were unimportant.

Just because someone is in a minority does not mean they matter / are not important.

It would be nice if the people arguing for the introduction of inscriptable items including altering non-inscriptable ones thought for a minute how much grief it would cause. Alot of time was spent trying to obtain items and to say you dont care about the player's loss is highly unfair and inconsiderate.

[QUOTE]very true so i obviously mispoke.

question please

if a person spends a million+ on their FOW armor and uses up their cash/assets getting that armor do they still qualify as a millionaire even if their assets aside from the FOW are essentially nil?

or is that person an ex- millionaire in FOW armor?

to clarify i was refering to the people who have the liquid assets ranging from spiked eggnogs to ectos to make million+ gold buys on the spot .

since the FOW armor is not of any sales value i was not counting something like that into the equation

First things first, it's 'inscribable'. Not inscriptable, inscripable or anything else. Ok, 'Inscriptible' is valid but the game uses 'Inscribable'.

When it comes to inscriptions, I'd be happy for Tyria and Cantha to see inscribable weapons dropping because it means I can have the skins I like with the stas I like. For the rare collectors, it would make their collections rarer and probably increase demand for non-inscribable perfect items. Surely that would please that portion of the player base aswell as the non-collectors?

Unconditionals don't bother me. As The Herbalizer said, they aren't imbalanced, and they give pleasure to those who collect and trade them. Historical artifacts if you like.

Guild Wars is aimed at the casual player and world-wide inscriptions are the way to go if the dev team believe in that mantra. I wouldn't apply inscriptions retroactively though because it would upset a lot of people and it's probably a coding nightmare.

Most of them couldn't care less about anyone else Herb, you know that. They just want what they want and to hell with anyone and everyone who doesn't conform to their views. I see a lot of “inscribables are better for everyone” when what they really mean is “inscribables are better for ME”. I’d like to know what makes them think their wants are more important then other people’s wants. Weather someone is in the minority or the majority their wants should not trump the other sides. Most of the people in this thread, and the dozens of other identical threads in the past, simply are not interested in “fairness”, if they were they would try to consider some type of compromise such as having both types of weapons drop, inscription based and non-inscription based, where some skins drop as both types and other skins drop exclusively as one or the other type. But no, they are not interested in the “fairness” they espouse, only in making things exactly the way they want with no compromise and no quarter given. They should have all things their way and anyone who disagrees with them must be a selfish, greedy prick right? That’s pretty much the sentiment I see here. It’s sad and very immature.

I'll try and be more sympathetic here for a moment.

I understand that for some ultra-rare skins, making them inscribable makes them less rare and feel like less of an accomplishment.

For most weapons, though, allowing the inscription to be retroactively changed is a big benefit. 15 over 50 mods could then be pulled off, imperfect inscriptions could be replaced, etc. I'm not sure which of the two is a better idea, to be honest.

For changing drops, I see no reason why non-inscribable weapon should continue to drop. They're *bad*. In 2 years of playing, I doubt I've gotten more than 10 usable drops in tyria/cantha. I've never gotten any usable caster weapons. (I count usable as perfect mods, I'm a perfectionist to whom that extra 1% matters, not for rarity, but because I want to be as effective as possible). It's not about free weapon for everyone, but about a better system that's a hell of a lot more fun for everyone involved. It used to drive me insane to get 3 class caster weapons, 18% hexed chaos axes, etc.

As for changing unconditional weapons, I'm torn. They changed all the other imbalanced PvE items a long, long time ago, pissing off the crowd that's pissed off right now. I'll take herbalizer's word that they're extremely rare and not used in PvP, which is a tic for them staying. It really is a toss-up on that one.

I though Zrave was inactive also..

Nice list there Herb., knew I could count on you :P

FoW doesn't mean jack anymore, so no, no gold = poor no matter what armor you have.

There should be masses with 1mill+ tbh only those with some kind of dedication will make it though. It use to be possible to farm 1mill in a week.

In nf somthing like 95% of items are really easy to get perfect cus of the inscription system, GW:EN will most lightly be the same.

But now days you can get a req 12/13 of any canthan/ tyrain skin for pretty cheap as well. there are exeptions but there are exeptions of inscription only items too.

So why would any one want to implement an inscription system to proph/factions when the weaps can already be aquired cheapish anyway? is it functionality or jealousy?

Because some people might NOT have nightfall and want to get the same flexibility in weapon choices of those players who do.

I invite all flames by saying this....................leave the req7 and 8 non-inscribables the way they are. Then make them PvE only. No reason to argue anymore.

[QUOTE=Loviatar]What I meant was if so many people in one guild alone online at the same time could obtain the gold required for FOW armour which is around 1 million (or was) then it shows the ease at which it can be obtained.

I know a number of FOW owners who dont have a clue about making gold yet they managed to get it through incredible luck.

Even now you can obtain a large amount of gold for doing nothing whether it be gold drops, mini pets etc. Only the other day I obtained a Mini Gwen worth around 100k +50 Ectos on a mule account.

I have read stories about how people have obtained 1 million gold from just "normal" play.

There are also alot of players who were millionaires but spent their gold on say items. They become poor but soon are millionaires again through selling other items they own. I know people who regularly do this and although they could be poor now they in the future could easily become a millionaire again.

In terms of what is a millionaire I would say it is someone who has wealth tied up in gold, materials or dye.

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I am pretty sure you can own Nightfall items even if you do not own the game. I purchased several Factions weapons when all I owned was Prophecies.

A PvP character can gain weapons from PvE through purchase, just as a Prophecies only player can gain Nightfall item through purchase.

But this still requires finding someone who has the item your looking for, and having the money to buy it.

In the fact that this is a reliance for exclusive items (not just in skin, but requirements, modability, etc) through another player from another game, there is a serious hindrance on that player's ability to be independent.

Anet gives players the option to play through the game solo with hench and heros alike. So creating a situation where a player is forced to rely on other players for items is hypocritical, especially with the superior crafters and collectors in Nightfall.

Sorry bro but that wouldn't go nearly far enough for some of these people, I can hear it already "put them at character creation since I don't have any gold yet"

The title of this thread made me laugh,
"How to drive away hard core collectors in pve"

Aside from Malice and Herb are there really any left???

I seem to remember a few of us explaining that demands just like this would come along if they added any inscriptions and look --- here they are.

I added a screen of what I believe may be the rarest item in GWs just for Herb and Malice, maybe not I don't play anymore but I only know of 1
{the rest of you can't look}

EDIT They very well may want the same flexibility in skill choices too but how would they be entitled to have something from a game they didn't buy?

Sorry to disappoint, but Malice is officially a poor person I got rid of everything I owned quite a while ago. Herb is one of the few original collectors left.

It has nothing to do with wanting everything given at character creation, but has more to do with the inscription system being better and more fun for everyone. There are still rare skins in nightfall, and still things worth collecting, my point is that a) not everyone has nightfall to get the useful inscribable weapons and b) you can only get so many req 9 illusion 20% HCT healing prayers 20% HSR fire magic items before your head explodes

The inscription system isn't fun, it removed all the fun IMO.

He was out of line, and you are wrong. Everyone knows that you value virtual property more than everyone else around here; I'm not expecting much from this beginning.

A list changes nothing. All this does is confirm what everyone knows--there are Unconditional weapons still in the game, over two years after they stopped dropping.

Would you care to tell my why they stopped dropping, or is this a touchy subject for you?

Yes, thank you for mentioning that they are customized. The reason they are customized is for use in PvP. PvE players have no interest in customizing weapons. I'm glad you have confirmed this point for me.

Wrong. You are writing under the idea that an inactive account is gone. You are writing under the suggestion that since those players do not play anymore, their weapons don't matter. You're completely forgetting about the fact that the accounts are still active. They can log in at any moment, or sell it to a friend.

It does not matter if they are not currently playing. That was never an issue with unconditional weapons. Nor has the rarity ever been an issue. The only times these points come up is from someone who owns one (like you) trying to justify their purchase of a virtual property. They are game-breaking items. They do not belong in the game.

Again going back to your love of virtual worth. Still, did you ever think to ask yourself why an item like that would be worth so much? It's easy--it's imba.

Weapon-swapping is an action that causes you to miss a swing. If you're going to start into your classic "I keep a 20v50% weapon swap with my unconditional weapon", I'm going to choke on my water.

Oh shit, there I go.

Cut the crap, Herbalizer. You don't weapon swap in that situation unless it's to something more defensive. It's useless to swap to more damage because you miss a swing. There is a delay in this action while your character switches weapons. I know for a fact that you don't do this, because you would know this fact if you ever tried.

Because of weapon swapping? I already handled this.

Because of rarity? I already handled this.

Do you know who I am? I'm kind of a big deal around here!

Seriously, you're only defending them because you own one. Naturally, you'll try to downplay them. I bet you'd even quit the game if it was taken away from you (which is the title of this thread, actually). That kind of slant really hurts your arguement, especially after you condone calling people ignorant just because they don't share your outlook on "special" virtual items.


Actually, I'm betting a "few thousand" is the number of players who have logged in the last week. Tens of people playing a video game!

Quoting this just because I can't leave it alone.


Yes, yes, down with democracy.

People know me!

Huh? I've got items that would be devalued as well. I want that inscription system very badly, however, because I know I'll have the tools to personalize my character the way that I want--in a manner that is balanced.

So then explain to me the reason why stuff was removed from PvE and put into PvP only avenues to get. Seems theres already a precendent that anets has going. Seems more to me that anet is the hypocritical one according to ur views.

What harm would come from turning future drops in Tyria/Cantha inscribable? (by this, i mean everyones weapons currently would stay as they are).

Would this increase the rarity and therefore price of non-inscrip items as they no longer can be dropped? Or would it push the general price down because the same thing "more" available...

If you really want the undoncitional items removed you only need make a fuss on a couple of forums and itll happen, i think its an issue that they would rather leave alone aslong as its not mentioned but if more people became aware of the imbalance it would be fixed pretty quick.

I'm not really too fussed about inscriptions, pretty much all my warriors items lost the bulk of their value after inscriptions were added but it was really badly needed for casters, getting perfect caster items before was impossible.

I am against making all weapons inscribable, even though I would not be affected by it much, seeing as I only have a small number of weapons that would be affected. GW has been going on just fine without these changes, so why change it now and piss off a number of people? I just see no need in changing what is already fine.

Also, on the point of making gold easily, I bought my FoW armor over the course of four months. It didn't take a lot of real grind farming, I just casually farmed and got lucky off of a few nice items - inscribable ones at that.

please clarify "Stuff", if you mean ATS skins....those aren't tradeable.

Skill choices arent even part of the discussion.

Skills are unattainable if you dont own the expansion (i remember only 1 exception to this, iirc). Weapons and items are purchasable even if you dont own the expansion. This is the fundamental difference and negates your comparison. My comparison of the PvP character getting PvE items is more valid since even PvP-only accounts can gain PvE items.

Im not saying to put spear crafters in Prophecies, but the CORE classes are available in all the games.

All weapons behave the same way. They do damage, they have mods. The fact that Nightfall has a "unique" weapon system creates incompatibilities with its sister games.

Not only that, but the collectors and crafters in Nightfall have weapons that no reason NOT to exist in Factions or Prophecies (like Restoration requirement wands).

When the inscribables drops in Tyria and Cantha will give all players regardless of their game a uniform system.

[QUOTE]thank you but no.

once upon a time long ago that 4 was actually worth selling but since it was the best salvage i had ever gotten to that date i kept it and still keep it for the fun of remembering the wow feeling way back when i got it

How sad to see people fear the devalue of virtual items. Poor elitists that can't bare the thought of not being elitist anymore if anet make all weapons inscribable.

I've not seen anything in this thread to not implement inscriptions, except 3 desperate people trying to hang onto their elite status. Their answer, get more money. Either by farming or playing the market, both are boring and time consuming. Also that list of unconditionals pretty much consists of people that don't play anymore, they can't complain if they don't play. Having a whole guild walk around in obsidian armor, only shows a guild with bad taste. none of the obsidian armor actually looks good imo.

because they did it for tyrian and canthan armor by changing to an inscription system, which was also introduced in nightfall first.