How to drive away hard core collectors in pve

Dr Strangelove

Dr Strangelove

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Join Date: Dec 2005

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07 Aug 2007 at 00:34 - 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malice Black
I still don't understand your infatuation with 'balance', explain..

As far as I'm concern, Anets love of balance killed PvE.
I dunno, I'm kind of a big fanboy for balance in PvE. There's a billion Diablo 2 clones out there where you can steamroll monsters with your eyes closed and both hands tied behind your back. They're fun, for about 15 minutes. It kinda like that in Guild Wars I have to put together a nice build and organize a team before I can steamroll monsters blindfolded.

This kinda-sorta-not-really ties into my fetish for inscriptions and such. There's a billion Diablo 2 clones where you can grind endlessly for uber-powerful weapons so you can kill uber-powerful things at the end of the game. In Elona, it's really nice to be able to just play missions and quests without farming like you're from the midwest. The inscription system doesn't kill farming, though. There are still torment weapons, elemental swords, colossal scimitars, etc. for those with a love of shinies. You can farm and grind those things all day and feel really happy when you get one. When you have to farm endlessly just to get a 15>50 longsword, something is probably wrong.

All this, plus I'd actually like to be able to use my lockpicks in Cantha and Prophecies, since I mostly play there.

boko

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

07 Aug 2007 at 00:34 - 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malice Black
Ah, I forgot, being a mod entitles me to no opinion correct? and I must spend all my time in Ventari's writing up user notes for the same people for the same violations? nah, I'd die of boredom. This thread interests me, so I will continue to post until I grow tired of it. That ok with you?

Spazzer (nice name, pet name perhaps )

I still don't understand your infatuation with 'balance', explain..

As far as I'm concern, Anets love of balance killed PvE.
He does not really care about balance, is it obvious?
Straight from the horse's mouth :


Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazzer
Unconditional weapons are the obstacle stopping us from having inscriptions in all 3 campaigns. Either they get reworked/removed, or they add a new unconditional inscription. Any way they choose to handle this, the two people who would care about it will cry to no end. They'd cry because they lost their unconditional weapon. They'd cry because their unconditional weapon was no longer unconditional. They'd cry because other people have unconditional weapons. I find it very hard to respect them.
He is only using that as a pretext to justify the need to remove those weapons or acheive his wants. Yes wants, not needs. So does most of those for that post. All they want is that they get their stuff easily irrespective of the others feelings. As pointed by the so-intelligent title of this thread :"How to drive away hardcore collectors in PvE", they are set on a very stupid witchhunt... because they are ... stupid ....

Hopefully, ANet knows what they are doing and are going to keep both system. Since I already found out that major parts of GWEN actually happens in Tyria, I would not be surprised if they drops tyrian items with inscription slots in GWEN zones. In other words, Anet may be planning to keep both system for the better. And hopefully, that will also calm down the crybabies on this thread.

Clone

Clone

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Join Date: Jan 2006

07 Aug 2007 at 00:38 - 163
Yes, Anet, please save us from affordable weapons and the horrors of not having to grind for weeks to get decent loot... [/sarcasm]

against

against

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Join Date: Jun 2005

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07 Aug 2007 at 00:53 - 164
I think it would be sexy if my req. 8 rare skin bow collection were inscribable, honestly. Req. 9 items may as well be inscribable anyway, because they are low-class trash. Sometimes, I feel dirty when I think about my Tormented Recurve being req. 9. It's really a disgrace to the rest of my bows, but I just had to have it.

boko

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

07 Aug 2007 at 00:55 - 165
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clone
Yes, Anet, please save us from affordable weapons and the horrors of not having to grind for weeks to get decent loot... [/sarcasm]
Where have you been living? Weapons were always affordable. Collector items are dead cheap. But oh you want prestige items without even lifting a finger.... riiight... Maybe they should just allow everyone to start with everything already.... [/sarcasm]

You want to look good without lifting a finger? Here's a tip for you. Go mod your own GW. This is very popular lately. You can look pretty and can even get more customisation than ever. And leave others to enjoy the game the way Anet designed it.

seut

seut

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Europa

07 Aug 2007 at 00:55 - 166
The inscription system was introduced, because even with the extensive crafter & collector possibilities in Tyria & Cantha there were many wanted combinations not possible to obtain through those means.
To name a few:
- recurve bow with +5energy
- shields with +10armor vs. damage type
- wands & focuses with 15/-1energy and 10% hsr/hct

The system was added to gain flexibility, not to destroy the fun of rare item collectors.
Even in Nightfall there were a few ultra rare items with high values (Elemental Swords, Colossal Scimitars). The reason why those skins dropped in price wasn't the inscription system, it was the introduction of hard mode with its extended farming possibilities!

sixdartbart

sixdartbart

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07 Aug 2007 at 01:05 - 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
I dunno, I'm kind of a big fanboy for balance in PvE.
Balance in PvE??? God I hope you were joking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
When you have to farm endlessly just to get a 15>50 longsword, something is probably wrong.
You know these are "core" weapons and drop in all 3 campains right?
Kinda hard to walk through Mirror of Lyss without getting a couple of them just from chests.

And just so we are clear I would really like to see the list of weapons everyone is complaining about that you want to see inscribable versions of.

ShadowsRequiem

ShadowsRequiem

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Join Date: Oct 2005

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07 Aug 2007 at 01:09 - 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixdartbart
Balance in PvE??? God I hope you were joking.

You know these are "core" weapons and drop in all 3 campains right?
Kinda hard to walk through Mirror of Lyss without getting a couple of them just from chests.

And just so we are clear I would really like to see the list of weapons everyone is complaining about that you want to see inscribable versions of.
Yah the list of weapons will only be the rarest of rare skins. Most first game items drop in NF

sorry guys if you got a crappy req 9 14 vs hexed serpent axe and you just want to have everything made inscriptable for your own gain :P

sixdartbart

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07 Aug 2007 at 01:25 - 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by seut
The inscription system was introduced, because even with the extensive crafter & collector possibilities in Tyria & Cantha there were many wanted combinations not possible to obtain through those means.
To name a few:
- recurve bow with +5energy
- shields with +10armor vs. damage type
- wands & focuses with 15/-1energy and 10% hsr/hct

The system was added to gain flexibility, not to destroy the fun of rare item collectors.
Even in Nightfall there were a few ultra rare items with high values (Elemental Swords, Colossal Scimitars). The reason why those skins dropped in price wasn't the inscription system, it was the introduction of hard mode with its extended farming possibilities!
umm you mean stuff like in these screens? Please note the lack of inscriptions.
Granted you can't just go to a collector to get these but they were by no means hard to obtain.

It seems to me that people want everything to be available to them with little or no effort and seriously if you need special weapon sets that aren't available at collectors/crafters to kill the retarded AI beasties with all of the IMBA skills available the weapons sets aren't gonna help you at all.

Dr Strangelove

Dr Strangelove

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07 Aug 2007 at 01:28 - 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixdartbart
Balance in PvE??? God I hope you were joking.

You know these are "core" weapons and drop in all 3 campains right?
Kinda hard to walk through Mirror of Lyss without getting a couple of them just from chests.

And just so we are clear I would really like to see the list of weapons everyone is complaining about that you want to see inscribable versions of.
I just did swords because I'm lazy. Figure there's about the same amount of staves, wands, foci, shields, axes, daggers and hammers. Stolen from http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Sword

# Broadsword
# Celestial Sword
# Crenellated Sword
# Dadao Sword
# Dusk Blade
# Golden Phoenix Blade
# Gothic Sword
# Jade Sword
# Katana
# Oni Blade
# Plagueborn Sword
# Platinum Blade
# Shinobi Blade
# Sunqua Blade
# Wicked Blade
# Vertebreaker
# Zodiac Sword
# Non-standard swords

* Jitte (blunt damage)

# Ascalon Razor
# Forked Sword
# Plasma Blade
# Rinblade
# Scimitar
Shadow Blade
Crystalline Sword

Anyway, although I own all 3 campaigns, I play primarily in prophecies and factions. It would be nice if I could share in the excitement of getting a single useful drop after completing the whole damn game in hard mode.

And yes, balance in PvE. Game where you click once and everything dies are retarded. If monsters can't beat the living crap out of me, the game isn't fun. If certain classes are totally useless, the game isn't fun.

As things stand, normal mode PvE is better balanced than most, but still kinda lame. Hard mode PvE is surprisingly well balanced, the best I've ever seen in a game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boko
Where have you been living? Weapons were always affordable. Collector items are dead cheap. But oh you want prestige items without even lifting a finger.... riiight... Maybe they should just allow everyone to start with everything already....
No, I want the damned things to drop when I play through missions and quests. Farming is about as fun as cleaning my apartment with a toothbrush - it takes forever, and the benefit you get in the end isn't worth the headache.

MithranArkanere

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07 Aug 2007 at 01:29 - 171
Getting easy prestige items? Who said that?
Bleh. Weapons like Elemental swords or Fiery/Icy Blade axes are rare, and hard to find, and expensive, yet they may come inscribed. They may be trash if they come without inscription slot, like the (pre-Searin Cristallie skin, for show, no use). And they can come without it. I got myself many weapons with two upgrades and no inscriptions an focir/shilds with upgrade but no inscription.

So don't come saying inscriptions are bad. It just makes rare skins more important, and average skins, like Jade Daggers or Ascalon Bows, just that: average.

Since collector, crafted, quest rewards and unique rares like icy dragon swords or weapons with poperties that do not match inscriptions would not be affected by getting inscribed. It would hurt no one.
They left the unconditional 15% damage untouched, and they could fix them if they wanted to. With inscriptions added, they would keep the unconditional 15% instead getting an inscription slot. Bur modifiers with equivalent inscriptions would get changed, not all of them. That's all.

It would just make a max-req9, 15%^50 the same as a max-req9, 14%^50.
But the important thing would stay the same, and the price should depend on that only:
- Skin
- Base damage
- Requirement.
- Having inscription slot.
Inscriptions can't affect that.

It's not that perfect crystallines would start dropping from Level 2 Resurrect gargoyles or level 0 Mantid Monitors, and a req 7 would always e more expensive than a req 11! For Grenth's sake!

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

07 Aug 2007 at 01:54 - 172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clone
Yes, Anet, please save us from affordable weapons and the horrors of not having to grind for weeks to get decent loot... [/sarcasm]
This sentence fails on so many levels.

Very few things are not affordable for your 'average joe'. Things that use to cost 1million now cost 10k, how is that not afforable. If people really can't get together 10-20k in gold to buy some stuff then they need to either quit or learn to play. Just by playing through the game you can get 100k+, there is no excuse for people to be dead broke.

boko

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

07 Aug 2007 at 01:57 - 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
No, I want the damned things to drop when I play through missions and quests. Farming is about as fun as cleaning my apartment with a toothbrush - it takes forever, and the benefit you get in the end isn't worth the headache.
Welcome to Guild Wars. That has always been the case. I'd even add that it is even worse now. It take forever to get anything now. Titles and items. Special thanks to the constant attempt to fight bots. Ask the PvPers how hard it is to make their char look cool.

Unfortunately, some people went through all this and in spite of all the problems, managed to pull out a little gem. Let them have their candy. They dun't affect the game, not poses any threat to balance whatsoever.

If you can't get those items, or even bothered to get these items, where is the problems? There are other items in game. Just go for the accessible one according to your criteria and time. You ain't gonna be disadvantaged.They do the same dmg. Go for greenies instead. Anet added them especially for this reason. I wonder what is gonna be next? People whining that Elemental sword are too rare or hard to get?

If you dun't have the cash for a porsche, stop being so needy and whiny, and settle for another one. A car is a car. Whatever the brand.

Or Just wait for GWEN. Ain't that far, is it?

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

07 Aug 2007 at 02:05 - 174
Does anyone who is against the inscription system actually have anything to say against the fact that Nightfall's inscription system is a superior system with customizability, usability and flexibility?

All i keep seeing is "its not that hard to get stuff" or "let them have their cake" type responses, which do not address that very important point.

boko

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

07 Aug 2007 at 02:17 - 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
Does anyone who is against the inscription system actually have anything to say against the fact that Nightfall's inscription system is a superior system with customizability, usability and flexibility?

All i keep seeing is "its not that hard to get stuff" or "let them have their cake" type responses, which do not address that very important point.
There is no problem with the inscription system itself. But there is a major problem in the way people on this thread want to implement it. They want to "drive away hard core collectors in PvE".

They want to kick those who actually went through all the trouble to get those items and god knows how hard they are to get, in the nuts, where that hurts the most.

Now tell me, would there actually be a problem if the drops in GWEN were part tyrian and inscriptable while the whole drop system in Tyria stays the same as it is? (while leaving the hard core collectors with their candies untouched)

seut

seut

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Europa

07 Aug 2007 at 02:20 - 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixdartbart
umm you mean stuff like in these screens? Please note the lack of inscriptions.
Granted you can't just go to a collector to get these but they were by no means hard to obtain.
That's where i beg to differ. I used to farm a lot during the Prophecies only days and until i got the Maatu Keep crafter in Factions, my necromancer used a 14/-1energy deadly cesta for my high energy weapons set (yes, 1 imperfect mod only).
Furthermore i remember several people in guru's irc channel promising large sums for a +5energy recurve bow last summer.

In my experience such items were hard to obtain before inscriptions. Collectors/crafters just can't cover all the possible demand in mod combinations.

sixdartbart

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07 Aug 2007 at 02:23 - 177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
I just did swords because I'm lazy. Figure there's about the same amount of staves, wands, foci, shields, axes, daggers and hammers. Stolen from http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Sword

# Broadsword
# Celestial Sword
# Crenellated Sword
# Dadao Sword
# Dusk Blade
# Golden Phoenix Blade
# Gothic Sword
# Jade Sword
# Katana
# Oni Blade
# Plagueborn Sword
# Platinum Blade
# Shinobi Blade
# Sunqua Blade
# Wicked Blade
# Vertebreaker
# Zodiac Sword
# Non-standard swords

* Jitte (blunt damage)

# Ascalon Razor
# Forked Sword
# Plasma Blade
# Rinblade
# Scimitar
Shadow Blade
Crystalline Sword
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't they already make inscribable versions of Canthan weapons available somewhere in Cantha? {I don't go to Cantha cause I'm afraid of catching something but I remember hearing something about them doing that}
Assuming I'm correct about that your list would be cut down to

3 non max swords {all 3 collector items}
Forked sword - which also drops in Cantha
Scimitar - which shares the same skin as several other "core" swords and drops in cantha.
Shadow Blade - Drops in Elona {already inscribable}
Crystalline Sword - {already inscribable}

Remaining list = ummm well don't see much so if you are right about all of the other weapon types I guess it will save a lot of typing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boko
I wonder what is gonna be next? People whining that Elemental sword are too rare or hard to get?
You missed those threads?
I know I have seen a few months ago, no worries there will be more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_songs character description
Its way more fun to argue on GWGuru than to actually play the game
That pretty much covers your purpose here eh?
no response required I don't want to be the reason for more of your spam.

MithranArkanere

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Join Date: Nov 2006

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07 Aug 2007 at 02:25 - 178
Mate, a rare req 9 15..28 Ascalon Flatbow IS NOT a Porsche. But it can take ages to get one with a decent req.

Why should a collector bow be almost better than a gold one of the same req and base damage? Hm... eh... no... no reason to.

Got the point?

boko

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

07 Aug 2007 at 02:27 - 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by sixdartbart
You missed those threads?
I know I have seen a few months ago, no worries there will be more.
Oh dear...The community is in an even worse state than I thought then...lol

ShadowsRequiem

ShadowsRequiem

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07 Aug 2007 at 02:28 - 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
# Broadsword
# Celestial Sword
# Crenellated Sword
# Dadao Sword
# Dusk Blade
# Golden Phoenix Blade
# Gothic Sword
# Jade Sword
# Katana
# Oni Blade
# Plagueborn Sword
# Platinum Blade
# Shinobi Blade
# Sunqua Blade
# Wicked Blade
# Vertebreaker
# Zodiac Sword
* Jitte (blunt damage)
# Forked Sword
# Scimitar
Shadow Blade
Crystalline Sword
Funny i've seen just about inscriptable versions of all these items you have listed. Strange. No?

the other items you listed are strictly collector items.

boko

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

07 Aug 2007 at 02:32 - 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Mate, a rare req 9 15..28 Ascalon Flatbow IS NOT a Porsche. But it can take ages to get one with a decent req.

Why should a collector bow be almost better than a gold one of the same req and base damage? Hm... eh... no... no reason to.

Got the point?
Because gold= rare maybe? SO to get one which is worthwhile, you need ... luck?

And a collector is for those people who dun't want to depend on luck?

Thought that was clear.... the purpose of collectors....

sixdartbart

sixdartbart

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07 Aug 2007 at 02:36 - 182
Quote:
Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Mate, a rare req 9 15..28 Ascalon Flatbow IS NOT a Porsche. But it can take ages to get one with a decent req.

Why should a collector bow be almost better than a gold one of the same req and base damage? Hm... eh... no... no reason to.

Got the point?
You need a gold one why?
You just stated that collector versions are available but you WANT a gold one.

This pretty much covers most of the arguments made here and in all topics like this, no matter how many times people say it's not a vanity issue thats what it comes down to more times than not.

Again I call on ANET to just implement weapon selection at character creation {any skin any req any mods you want} since it will be at character creation there can be no fee.
Anything short of this won't satisfy many of the people I see make the same arguments over and over.

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

07 Aug 2007 at 02:37 - 183
Quote:
Originally Posted by boko
There is no problem with the inscription system itself. But there is a major problem in the way people on this thread want to implement it. They want to "drive away hard core collectors in PvE".
That still doesnt address the fact that the inscription system is better.

The motivations behind some people's approval is irrelevant to the outcome of the implementation, since that wouldnt be the intent of the implementation itself, since i doubt Anet wants to drive their customers away intentionally.

Implementing the inscription system would be a move to equalize the games in weapon system flexibility, customizability and usability.

Quote:
They want to kick those who actually went through all the trouble to get those items and god knows how hard they are to get, in the nuts, where that hurts the most.
That sob story aside, you've yet to present me with a real logical downside to implementing this system into Tyria/Cantha.

The only real downside i see is the fact that it will be difficult to implement and is it really worth all that trouble.

Quote:
Now tell me, would there actually be a problem if the drops in GWEN were part tyrian and inscriptable while the whole drop system in Tyria stays the same as it is? (while leaving the hard core collectors with their candies untouched)
Nothing, other than the fact that still leaves players with just Prophecies or Factions with an inferior system.

Again, the issue which is what i want you to address.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixdartbart
That pretty much covers your purpose here eh?
no response required I don't want to be the reason for more of your spam.
I find arguing fun. Period.

That doesnt invalidate the points that i bring up.

Instead of attacking me, why dont you try to counter my point. Which is how proper argument and debate works.

cellardweller

cellardweller

Likes naked dance offs

Join Date: Aug 2005

The Older Gamers [TOG]

07 Aug 2007 at 02:39 - 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by boko
Now tell me, would there actually be a problem if the drops in GWEN were part tyrian and inscriptable while the whole drop system in Tyria stays the same as it is? (while leaving the hard core collectors with their candies untouched)
I think Dr Strangelove conveyed the problem most people have with the current system quite succinctly:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
All this, plus I'd actually like to be able to use my lockpicks in Cantha and Prophecies, since I mostly play there.
To be honest, I think the only way to appease those that want good looking stuff and those that want rare stuff at the same time is to seperate the two sets. Chrystalines are a good example of this, the collectors are happy because they have something rare to shoot for and normal players don't care because its not a particularly attractive skin (at least I don't know anyone that likes it ). Its only when access to things like platinum staffs is limited that fur starts flying.

Oofus

Oofus

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Join Date: Feb 2006

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

Cold Hard [CASH]

07 Aug 2007 at 02:48 - 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
Does anyone who is against the inscription system actually have anything to say against the fact that Nightfall's inscription system is a superior system with customizability, usability and flexibility?

All i keep seeing is "its not that hard to get stuff" or "let them have their cake" type responses, which do not address that very important point.
Sure I have something to say against Nightfall's "superior system with customizability, usability and flexibility" actually. When you can show me an inscribable version of any of these few examples then I'll agree that you have a singular point there. (ignore the req of 7, that is not the point I'm getting at)



You can't though because it simply is NOT a "superior system with customizability, usability and flexibility", in fact it is INFERIOR. It leaves out MANY possibilities. I could post several dozen other examples of impossible to inscribe stats, but frankly I think 6 random pieces from 1 panel in my storage demonstrates the point well enough. These are pieces I use regularly and would hate to not have the option of using.

Dr Strangelove

Dr Strangelove

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Join Date: Dec 2005

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[HOTR]

07 Aug 2007 at 02:49 - 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
Funny i've seen just about inscriptable versions of all these items you have listed. Strange. No?

the other items you listed are strictly collector items.
From guildwiki:

Inscriptions can only be salvaged from, and added to, items found in the Nightfall Campaign, items from the end chest of the Factions elite missions: The Deep and Urgoz's Warren, or item from the Hall of Heroes chest.

Ok, so cut out vertebreakers and oni blades. There is a tiny chance of some of the above dropping from the HoH chest, but that really doesn't factor into whether drops in Cantha and Tyria should be made inscribable.

Anyway, this is off topic. The point is still, and will always be, that drops in factions and prophecies suck compared to those in nightfall thanks to an antiquated system. Please stop trying to change the subject.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boko
There is no problem with the inscription system itself. But there is a major problem in the way people on this thread want to implement it. They want to "drive away hard core collectors in PvE".
Honestly, I don't care whether you collect stuff or not. Inscriptions has nothing to do with this. Last time I checked, there were plenty of rare skins in Elona that are highly sought after, despite inscriptions. Inscriptions just make the more common skins exactly that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boko
Welcome to Guild Wars. That has always been the case. I'd even add that it is even worse now. It take forever to get anything now.
I don't know what you're talking about. Thanks to inscriptions in Elona, I'm using weapons from my own drops, both for myself and my heroes. Maybe, just maybe, this system might be a good idea in the other two campaigns?

I was tempted to make a comment about loot scaling, but I don't want this thread to get derailed again.

boko

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

07 Aug 2007 at 02:51 - 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
That still doesnt address the fact that the inscription system is better.
Nobody said that the inscription system is worse. Less prestigeous and an insult to old skool players, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
The motivations behind some people's approval is irrelevant to the outcome of the implementation, since that wouldnt be the intent of the implementation itself, since i doubt Anet wants to drive their customers away intentionally..

Oh no, it's not Anets that want to drive the hard core players away. It's the lazy players that populate the GW population that want that. That's a player vs player issue. The GW Pvp format forum mode and much more fun to some, as i can see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
Implementing the inscription system would be a move to equalize the games in weapon system flexibility, customizability and usability.

That sob story aside, you've yet to present me with a real logical downside to implementing this system into Tyria/Cantha.

The only real downside i see is the fact that it will be difficult to implement and is it really worth all that trouble.
Really? I thought it was you who was in some other threads ago, saying that diminishing the accomplishment of one was unacceptable, or something along the line.... something like in a thread about PvP getting access to PvE items?

So, if it suits you, then it is suddenly acceptable to diminished one's achievement? O.o

If I am mistaken, please correct me....

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
Nothing, other than the fact that still leaves players with just Prophecies or Factions with an inferior system.

Again, the issue which is what i want you to address.
An inferior system as intended by Anet. They did add inscribable Zodiac weapon in the game afterall. They could as well make the whole cantha continent inscribable too, but they chose otherwise.

You want a better system, then pay for it. Buy NF or GWEN. And what are you going to say about sunspear skills? They make Proph campaign look inferior too, should Anet add them to Proph chapter too? What about heroes?

Added :
Sidenote: Another solution I thought of would be make all drop inscribable but leave the damn collector people and their candies alone. Sound fair? or going to cry more?

Oofus

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Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

Cold Hard [CASH]

07 Aug 2007 at 02:56 - 188
Quote:
Originally Posted by boko
Nobody said that the inscription system is worse.
Scroll up, I just did.

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

07 Aug 2007 at 03:16 - 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oofus
Sure I have something to say against Nightfall's "superior system with customizability, usability and flexibility" actually. When you can show me an inscribable version of any of these few examples then I'll agree that you have a singular point there. (ignore the req of 7, that is not the point I'm getting at)



You can't though because it simply is NOT a "superior system with customizability, usability and flexibility", in fact it is INFERIOR. It leaves out MANY possibilities. I could post several dozen other examples of impossible to inscribe stats, but frankly I think 6 random pieces from 1 panel in my storage demonstrates the point well enough. These are pieces I use regularly and would hate to not have the option of using.
Nice items. The fact that good items with stats like that are very rare, adds justification to the fact that that system is inferior, since a good majority of rare items from Tyria/Cantha do not have such good stats and collector items to match those are impossible to find.

I dont mind having people with their vanity, but you having superior stat weapons, unattainable through collector/weaponsmiths, is an imbalance and flaw.

While the inscription system does NOT have the ability to reproduce all possible mods from the older system, its an obvious move by Anet towards balance since they intentionally made some mod combinations impossible to get. The PvP weapon crafting system mirrors inscription system, and it seems to me that Anet has LIMITED it intentionally so that certain mods will never combine.

Also, the fact that good items exist through the older system doesnt compensate for the huge pile of unusable items that it creates through the random generation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by boko
Really? I thought it was you who was in some other threads ago, saying that diminishing the accomplishment of one was unacceptable, or something along the line.... something like in a thread about PvP getting access to PvE items?

So, if it suits you, then it is suddenly acceptable to diminished one's achievement? O.o

If I am mistaken, please correct me....
The ATS skins? My stance is still that, PvPers should be getting rewarded with PvP, not PvE related things.

Being that Vanity and skins are PvE based rewards, they should remain PvE rewards.

Titles and /rank are PvP rewards and should remain so.

I also mentioned that PvPers, IF they really should get skin rewards, should get items unique to them (unique PvP-only armor sets) and are unavailable through PvP, to make the reward more meaningful.

Quote:
And what are you going to say about sunspear skills? They make Proph campaign look inferior too, should Anet add them to Proph chapter too? What about heroes?
Invalid comparison.

Weapons exist in all 3 games.
PvE skills only exists in Factions and Nightfall (so far)....i dont see them NOT including it in Prophecies actually....
As for hereoes....Heroes only exist in Nightfall (so far).

Oofus

Oofus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

Cold Hard [CASH]

07 Aug 2007 at 03:21 - 190
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
Nice items. The fact that good items with stats like that are very rare, adds justification to the fact that that system is inferior, since a good majority of rare items from Tyria/Cantha do not have such good stats and collector items to match those are impossible to find.
I thank you for the compliment but no, those are not very rare stats. You can buy items with those stats (save for the req7) for peanuts these days. So it does not add justification to any such thing.

ShadowsRequiem

ShadowsRequiem

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Inde is Smoking [Hawt] *ToA*

W/E

07 Aug 2007 at 03:21 - 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
From guildwiki:

Inscriptions can only be salvaged from, and added to, items found in the Nightfall Campaign, items from the end chest of the Factions elite missions: The Deep and Urgoz's Warren, or item from the Hall of Heroes chest.

Ok, so cut out vertebreakers and oni blades. There is a tiny chance of some of the above dropping from the HoH chest, but that really doesn't factor into whether drops in Cantha and Tyria should be made inscribable.

Anyway, this is off topic. The point is still, and will always be, that drops in factions and prophecies suck compared to those in nightfall thanks to an antiquated system. Please stop trying to change the subject.



Honestly, I don't care whether you collect stuff or not. Inscriptions has nothing to do with this. Last time I checked, there were plenty of rare skins in Elona that are highly sought after, despite inscriptions. Inscriptions just make the more common skins exactly that.



I don't know what you're talking about. Thanks to inscriptions in Elona, I'm using weapons from my own drops, both for myself and my heroes. Maybe, just maybe, this system might be a good idea in the other two campaigns?

I was tempted to make a comment about loot scaling, but I don't want this thread to get derailed again.
Imo if you're getting stuff off wiki do your homework a lil more, gold inscript zodiac weapons aren't the only things that drop from the deep/urgoz chest. Countless other cathan skins drop there as well : plat blades and broadsword are two examples.

not just a lil chance in the hoh chest, as it drop almost every single skin.

Sucks compared to NF? huh? items that drop are just as good, dunno about you but i'm content with the drops i've gotten in catha and proph they've been much better then the crap i get in nf.... wonder why.

I also Agree with Oofus 100%. This system isnt superior, it locks out COUNTLESS combos you "could" make
for instance I have a +10 vs piercing dmg and -2 in stance shield. That cant be replicated.

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

07 Aug 2007 at 03:26 - 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oofus
I thank you for the compliment but no, those are not very rare stats. You can buy items with those stats (save for the req7) for peanuts these days. So it does not add justification to any such thing.
You are willing to tell me that rare drops in Tyria and Cantha have large percentage of usable stats?

How about addressing the issue that these stats are not reproduceable except through the random assignment of the old weapon drop system?

Oofus

Oofus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

Cold Hard [CASH]

07 Aug 2007 at 03:31 - 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
these stats are not reproduceable except through the random assignment of the old weapon drop system?
Thank you for agreeing with me. I accept your apology.

capitalist

capitalist

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

07 Aug 2007 at 03:37 - 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
You are willing to tell me that rare drops in Tyria and Cantha have large percentage of usable stats?
I am willing to say that.

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

07 Aug 2007 at 03:41 - 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oofus
Thank you for agreeing with me. I accept your apology.
ROFL. That was precious. I almost spat my apple juice. Thanks for making me laugh.

Im agreeing with the fact that these stats are only reproduceable through a random system.

However that fact is not a positive.


It doesnt make it superior in:
customizability: Your mods are locked.
flexibility: Your mods are locked.
useability: Your mods are locked.

And lets not forget that those mods are random and out of the player's control, and the system produces garbage much more easily than it does use-able items.

Your system is not superior. Its just random.

cellardweller

cellardweller

Likes naked dance offs

Join Date: Aug 2005

The Older Gamers [TOG]

07 Aug 2007 at 03:41 - 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oofus
I thank you for the compliment but no, those are not very rare stats. You can buy items with those stats (save for the req7) for peanuts these days. So it does not add justification to any such thing.
In 2 years of playing I have had a total 2 staves with perfect mods and drop for me I've never had a shield, offhand or wand drop with perfect stats, regardless of the req or the skin. Saying that they're not rare is either untruth or a massive statistical anomoly.

A solution that could satisfy both parties is the ablity to have drops stay as they are, but allow inscriptions to be added to them in a one way process that will change a 15/-5 to a "Strength and Honor".

ShadowsRequiem

ShadowsRequiem

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2005

Inde is Smoking [Hawt] *ToA*

W/E

07 Aug 2007 at 03:49 - 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by cellardweller
In 2 years of playing I have had a total 2 staves with perfect mods and drop for me I've never had a shield, offhand or wand drop with perfect stats, regardless of the req or the skin. Saying that they're not rare is either untruth or a massive statistical anomoly.

A solution that could satisfy both parties is the ablity to have drops stay as they are, but allow inscriptions to be added to them in a one way process that will change a 15/-5 to a "Strength and Honor".
That is a good idea as long as the make more inscriptions.

The problem still stands with unconditional mods. Thats why it should be left as it is.

Dr Strangelove

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

07 Aug 2007 at 04:07 - 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
Imo if you're getting stuff off wiki do your homework a lil more, gold inscript zodiac weapons aren't the only things that drop from the deep/urgoz chest. Countless other cathan skins drop there as well : plat blades and broadsword are two examples.
Meh, my bad, I've only completed the elite missions a couple times each. The point still stands that inscribable weapons don't drop for 99% of Cantha. I ignored HoH because again, not Cantha or Tyria. I'm not annoyed because of some specific skin that I think I'm entitled to, I'm annoyed because the drops I get in Cantha and Tyria are mostly useless.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
Sucks compared to NF? huh? items that drop are just as good, dunno about you but i'm content with the drops i've gotten in catha and proph they've been much better then the crap i get in nf.... wonder why.
I call shenanigans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowsRequiem
I also Agree with Oofus 100%. This system isnt superior, it locks out COUNTLESS combos you "could" make
for instance I have a +10 vs piercing dmg and -2 in stance shield. That cant be replicated.
Combos not available in PvP... Combos that could be considered "better". Max items with a req below 9. How on earth do you think this helps your arguement?

boko

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

07 Aug 2007 at 04:11 - 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
The ATS skins? My stance is still that, PvPers should be getting rewarded with PvP, not PvE related things.

Being that Vanity and skins are PvE based rewards, they should remain PvE rewards.

Titles and /rank are PvP rewards and should remain so.

I also mentioned that PvPers, IF they really should get skin rewards, should get items unique to them (unique PvP-only armor sets) and are unavailable through PvP, to make the reward more meaningful.).
In other words, you change your coat as it suits you. You vouch for the that accomplishment is respected and not diminised, yet on another side, you vouch for the hard work of others to be diminished just because YOU want to get some weird combo of item, or skins.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
Invalid comparison.

Weapons exist in all 3 games.
PvE skills only exists in Factions and Nightfall (so far)....i dont see them NOT including it in Prophecies actually....
As for hereoes....Heroes only exist in Nightfall (so far).
Oo... It is completely related. Inscription came with NF, and Anet decided NOT to implement them in other chapters. They added it for Zodiac only. Yet they did it for all armors irrespective of chapters. They have their reasons. So,please respect them. Anet caters to everyone, not just YOU. Guess what there are other people playing the game apart from you. It's NOT up to the players to decide that they need to drive away hard core collectors in pve. Who are you to decide who is to be chased out?

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

07 Aug 2007 at 04:31 - 200
I have a q8 15^50 Broadsword and a q8 15^50 Shinobi blade, and a q7 15^50 Falchion, all unscribable

Do you have an idea of how much effort was put into acquiring those weapons? How much they cost?

I have never heard of/seen another of either. I've seen a q9 15^50 shinobi blade.

An inscription system would ruin the beauty of these weapons.