Whats the point of causing exhastion to a ritualist?
VinnyRidira
What is the reason behind this? Is it another PvP skill balance? The energy in a Ritualist is not that magnificent to warrant this surely.
Omniclasm
For balance? Stop whining about it please. Compare Ancestor's Rage potential damage to Chain Lightning. The 25e spirits to 10e + exhaustion with a 20 second recharge is pretty nice IMO. One exhaustion skill won't kill you.
Mitchel
Because Rt Spike had to die, now it did and I can go yay.
Witchblade
read the update msg, skill changes are a test .. u ll see in a while
Omniclasm
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Originally Posted by Aera
That's because PvE monsters don't run overpowered crap and spoil it for the rest of the players, and they like to keep the game fun for everyone
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nugzta
nerf Enraged then?
Abbess
Exhaustion wont toll the ritualist too much unless you combine too many of the spirits that cause exhaustion. They reduced the energy cost of these skills significantly. In fact, i can see it helping a spirit spammer more than hurting one. Think about it. One exhaustion skills effects wear off quickly. Think of an elementalist that brings meteor in their bar. Have you ever heard them complaining about too much exhaustion?
Theus
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Originally Posted by Abbess
Exhaustion wont toll the ritualist too much unless you combine too many of the spirits that cause exhaustion. They reduced the energy cost of these skills significantly. In fact, i can see it helping a spirit spammer more than hurting one. Think about it. One exhaustion skills effects wear off quickly. Think of an elementalist that brings meteor in their bar. Have you ever heard them complaining about too much exhaustion?
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Pericles
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Originally Posted by Theus
...You my good sir,should be banned on the grounds of stupidity.
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As far all those arrogant pvp-jerks out there: maybe you can think about pve too as more than 50% of the GW community plays pve and NOT pvp, i'm fully aware of the irritating rit-spike teams and that they had to be stopped but now the whole ritualist line is nerfed. Spiritspamming is now made impossible (pretty strange as this was actually the main purpose for the rit).
Ajantis
Go complain to the guy that actually does the balancing instead of blaming the 'other' player group? 
Stormlord Alex
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Originally Posted by Pericles
(pretty strange as this was actually the main purpose for the rit).
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I always thought that the purpose of the rit was merely to be poorly conceived eye-candy, implemented as a hook to get people to buy Factions.
Steps_Descending
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Originally Posted by Pericles
but now the whole ritualist line is nerfed. Spiritspamming is now made impossible (pretty strange as this was actually the main purpose for the rit).
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But hey! Signet of illusion was buffed!
Chicken Ftw
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Originally Posted by Pericles
As far all those arrogant pvp-jerks out there: maybe you can think about pve too as more than 50% of the GW community plays pve and NOT pvp, i'm fully aware of the irritating rit-spike teams and that they had to be stopped but now the whole ritualist line is nerfed. Spiritspamming is now made impossible (pretty strange as this was actually the main purpose for the rit).
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Abbess
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Originally Posted by Theus
...You my good sir,should be banned on the grounds of stupidity.
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Chances are, if exhaustion is piling up THAT MUCH, then you are using exhaustion skills too often. Whether PVE or PVP, I have played my rit with no problem in light of these changes. If you did the math, the exhaustion cause by one of those ritual skills expires before the skill recharge.
Honestly i dont know why PvErs are so negative towards PvPers. The game is split evenly both ways. In fact, in case you havent realized, Skill balances are made mostly based on PvP feedback. Also, remember that Game Devs make skill balances because they want players to ADAPT to new builds and strategies. They want you to be challenged by the game to react to skill balances because otherwise the game would be boring. Without these changes, meta wouldnt change.
So suck it up.
Elnai
Its called: Learn how and when to cast!
Complicated I know :/
Complicated I know :/
Gimme Money Plzkthx
Well, personally I think that exhaustion was anet's answer to balancing rit spike without too much effort. I think that there were many better, more efficient, and more effective ways to balance it (damage, recharge times, energy costs, and cast times) but anet chose not to do it. So, while I find the exhaustion thing a bit ridiculous, it's not like you can't work around it for PvP or PvE, so stop whining.
Tachyon
It's because they (ANet) can't remove the blinkers and see that PvE and PvP are two totally different entities and that by pandering to the whiney PvPer's they ruin PvE for everyone else!
Criminally Sane
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Originally Posted by Azagoth
It's because they (ANet) can't remove the blinkers and see that PvE and PvP are two totally different entities and that by pandering to the whiney PvPer's they ruin PvE for everyone else!
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Omniclasm
I like that they added the exhaustion to the skills. It is better than just doubling the recharge and halving the damage like they usually do to nerf skills. At least they (or he, Izzy) tried to make creative changes instead of just changing a number. For the most part, I think it was a good idea. EXCEPT reducing the recharge on Wielder's Strike. That change made no sense, unless you remove the exhaustion when you do not get the bonus damage.
Longasc
Has anyone seen Rits in HA anymore this weekend?
I have seen one in a team, and it was not Ritspike. RIP Ritspike.
Exhaustion killed the whole thing, and it is bad because Ancestor's Rage was one of two (besides Spirit Rift) AoE Nukes that Ritualists have.
Yeah, they had to tone down Rit Spike. But did they have to kill two skills and the whole build in the process? Sledgehammer nerf. Rit Spike dead, problem solved???
Isaiah Cartwright knows from Elementalists with a much higher energy pool how popular and viable exhaustion is to balance skills. I know several Mind XX elites that get so thoroughly balanced by it that nobody uses them anywhere at all.
The same happened to Wielder's Strike and Ancestor's Rage. Exhaustion makes sense on the Xinrae stuff, but for these two it is a killer nerf.
I have seen one in a team, and it was not Ritspike. RIP Ritspike.
Exhaustion killed the whole thing, and it is bad because Ancestor's Rage was one of two (besides Spirit Rift) AoE Nukes that Ritualists have.
Yeah, they had to tone down Rit Spike. But did they have to kill two skills and the whole build in the process? Sledgehammer nerf. Rit Spike dead, problem solved???
Isaiah Cartwright knows from Elementalists with a much higher energy pool how popular and viable exhaustion is to balance skills. I know several Mind XX elites that get so thoroughly balanced by it that nobody uses them anywhere at all.
The same happened to Wielder's Strike and Ancestor's Rage. Exhaustion makes sense on the Xinrae stuff, but for these two it is a killer nerf.
Shadowspawn X
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Originally Posted by Abbess
Exhaustion wont toll the ritualist too much unless you combine too many of the spirits that cause exhaustion. They reduced the energy cost of these skills significantly. In fact, i can see it helping a spirit spammer more than hurting one. Think about it. One exhaustion skills effects wear off quickly. Think of an elementalist that brings meteor in their bar. Have you ever heard them complaining about too much exhaustion?
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DeBron
The exhaustion is too much for a character who has 45e-55e. Using one exhaustion causing spell creates problems.
This is not the answer, but ANET doesn't care. PvPers can bitch and moan all they want: and they'll get what they want. PvEers are left to deal with it.
Looks like it's time to tackle the next flavor of the month and subsequently reduce that class to garbage.
This is not the answer, but ANET doesn't care. PvPers can bitch and moan all they want: and they'll get what they want. PvEers are left to deal with it.
Looks like it's time to tackle the next flavor of the month and subsequently reduce that class to garbage.
lunksunkunk
Another example of PvP oveshadowing PvE. Ritspike is gone, now its time for another easy-to-use, overpowered, abused team build to come out so that Anet can once again nerf to oblivion. Its a never-ending cycle till all thats left of PvP, much less PvE, is warriors runing around w/ res sig, and heal sig, wanding each other to death, and whoever kites the best wins.
Lothmorg
Wow. Does anyone really believe that ArenaNet doesn't care? Do they really think that they listen to one side more than the other?
They have played PvE. They play and watch current PvP play. They see the changes that need to be made due to overpowered builds and they take the steps to fix it.
There is no favoritism. Think about it. If you were running the show, how would you implement change? You observe and modify - not ask on a message board. They have tons of testers that do nothing but try these changes both in PvE and PvP.
I hate PvP. I hate the changes they force on me in PvE whenever they balance skills and classes. It's comes with the territory. Get used to it.
I'll have to adapt they way I play my Ritualist in PvE yet again.
Please don't think that there is any favoritism towards PvP just because something needs balancing.
They have played PvE. They play and watch current PvP play. They see the changes that need to be made due to overpowered builds and they take the steps to fix it.
There is no favoritism. Think about it. If you were running the show, how would you implement change? You observe and modify - not ask on a message board. They have tons of testers that do nothing but try these changes both in PvE and PvP.
I hate PvP. I hate the changes they force on me in PvE whenever they balance skills and classes. It's comes with the territory. Get used to it.
I'll have to adapt they way I play my Ritualist in PvE yet again.
Please don't think that there is any favoritism towards PvP just because something needs balancing.
Kashrlyyk
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Originally Posted by Omniclasm
I'd just liked to mention Enraged.
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Ctb
<b>DeBron:</b> <i>PvEers are left to deal with it.</i>
That's because the PvE community (at least the part that gets farther in the game) is generally smarter than the PvP "community" and can figure things out on its own. Which is why PvP is so frequently dominated not by skilled players, but by lifeless bozos who have endless amounts of spare time to sit and try every conceivable profession and skill combination until they find something that wasn't intended to exploit HA.
It's a minor annoyance. Rits aren't useless in PvE, people just haven't found the new use for them that is needed to keep them popular. Just like the other 32 million times PvPers found some cheap spike build that got previously popular profession combinations nerfed for everyone.
I'll await the next "wwaaaaah waaahhhh, I have to stop and think about a new way to play now wwwaaah" thread which should be around shortly.
As a longtime GW player, I'm still tainted by the pre-Factions attitude of ANET where, basically, they didn't give a rat's ass about PvE because they viewed PvE as the "newbie" part of the game and expected everyone to switch over the PvP once they beat the environment aspect.
Whether they've changed their attitude since then or not, I don't know. I generally stopped paying any attention to them when that gigantic anti-PvE turd called "factions" wasted my money.
That's because the PvE community (at least the part that gets farther in the game) is generally smarter than the PvP "community" and can figure things out on its own. Which is why PvP is so frequently dominated not by skilled players, but by lifeless bozos who have endless amounts of spare time to sit and try every conceivable profession and skill combination until they find something that wasn't intended to exploit HA.
It's a minor annoyance. Rits aren't useless in PvE, people just haven't found the new use for them that is needed to keep them popular. Just like the other 32 million times PvPers found some cheap spike build that got previously popular profession combinations nerfed for everyone.
I'll await the next "wwaaaaah waaahhhh, I have to stop and think about a new way to play now wwwaaah" thread which should be around shortly.
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Originally Posted by Lothmorg
Do they really think that they listen to one side more than the other?
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Whether they've changed their attitude since then or not, I don't know. I generally stopped paying any attention to them when that gigantic anti-PvE turd called "factions" wasted my money.
pingu666
actully the reduced skill cost is nice. i think wanderlust needs a buff in some way tho
HawkofStorms
Look, I'm a primary PvE player, but I understand the need for the nerf to Rit spike. Balance in the PvP game is more important though then not touching your build. Just go and try some underused skills instead of complaining. Fix your builds. Nerfs happen, get over yourself.
sindex
Because the few conservative PvP’ers only want monks and warriors in and everything else out.
GloryFox
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posted by Chicken Ftl Word to you PvE rits out there who're complaining: not many of the good PvE skills for Rit were even touched. If you're spamming Wielder's Strike in PvE, you suck. If you use the spirits that now cause exhaustion often enough to actually be hurt by the exhaustion (how is this even possible when most have 20s+ recharge anyway, unless you load up on multiple spirits that cause it?), you suck. I don't see any nerfs to any of the better skills for PvE... So instead of blaming PvP for everything, learn to play your class first. |
Allow me to educate you on spirit summoning 101 and why you can have 3 25 E cost spirits and still be effective in PvE or PvP. There is this wonderful item you can get in HzH from a collector its a Communing offhand +27E -1E pip +30 hp, when you combine this with armor you end up with 70 E with 3 pips of energy regen. When Blood song was moved to channeling most Ritualist PvX spirit turret summoners had to find a better way of summoning and maintaining energy because you could not divide between 3 attributes (Spawning power, communing and channeling). The awnser came in the form of Offering of Spirit, or Signet of Spirits both channeling. With OoS (the better skill IMO) you could ensure enough energy for Anguish 25, Dissonance 25, Disenchantment 25, as well as Blood song 5, Pain 5, and Shadow Song 10. Thats your 6 primary turrets and an energy management skill plus a Res for PvE or something else for PvP. In this way you can avoid Spawning Power altogether for better turret offense. (no help from spawning power anymore, the better Spirit E, management was and still is, in Channeling) With OoS you can gain 16-18E every 15 seconds -5 from the cost. It's a very good energy management skill at level 13 or 16.
Now turret Summoners must contend with 30 points of exhaustion now. If you look at it in % of energy alone that would be a higher % of energy ineffectiveness than a Elementalist with 3 skills that cause the same exhaustion.
Whereas an Elementalist with 30 points of exaustion could simply deal with it with his/her high energy. A Ritualist suffers more because a Ritualist has less energy overall than an Elementalist and therefore has a higher % of energy ineffectiveness. I just can't see how this is good for the class overall with less energy then the class what was designed to deal with it.
Chicken Ftw
Yawn. /sage for failure and melodramatic PvErs who claim the entire class was ruined by eight skills, most of which have 20s+ recharge, now causing exhaustion. The skills hit weren't even all that good to use in PvE, gtfo with your mindless bitching about how PvP ruins the game for you.
Side note, I'm actually surprised to see some people understand that nerfs are necessary. Am I really in Riverside? Wow. <3
Side note, I'm actually surprised to see some people understand that nerfs are necessary. Am I really in Riverside? Wow. <3
Ctb
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Originally Posted by Chicken Ftw
The skills hit weren't even all that good to use in PvE, gtfo with your mindless bitching about how PvP ruins the game for you.
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Shadowspawn X
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Originally Posted by pingu666
actully the reduced skill cost is nice. i think wanderlust needs a buff in some way tho
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1) grab your ritualist make your best channeling/communing build be sure to use some of the nice newly balanced skills
2) grab the heroes/henchies
3) Go to Vizunah Square make sure you are in hard mode
4) Enter mission and get your guardian point
5) Then post back here and tell me how balanced it was and how much fun you had with those nice new improved skills.
kooomar
What is the deal with people that do primarily PvE ripping on people that do PvP. Do you guys even realize that the high end PvPers are closely knit into the PvE world, probably more closely than most of the people that call themselves the "PvE community." Sure let the flames come, I know they will, but myself and many other people that are rank 9 and higher (again, let the flames come) are also ones with 20+ max titles and high end weapons. Just accept it as a GW community and stop being so freaking prejudice as to what "community" needed the nerf.
This nerf barely hurts PvE rits at all, the energy reduction is next to amazing in fact, and (from spirit spamming 101) maybe you dont need to have a 15 -1 offhand now, since they are less energy, and maybe you can drop one of the 3 spirits giving you exhaustion? 1 or 2 spirits giving exhaustion doesn't even hurt you that bad, with the long recharge.
I dunno, to me it seems that its a test (oh wait, thats because they said that) so, you don't need to get worked up about why they nerfed it, and play along with it. Also, one thing that made me MORE curious, how many of you people that are whining like children have a MAIN toon thats a rit?
This nerf barely hurts PvE rits at all, the energy reduction is next to amazing in fact, and (from spirit spamming 101) maybe you dont need to have a 15 -1 offhand now, since they are less energy, and maybe you can drop one of the 3 spirits giving you exhaustion? 1 or 2 spirits giving exhaustion doesn't even hurt you that bad, with the long recharge.
I dunno, to me it seems that its a test (oh wait, thats because they said that) so, you don't need to get worked up about why they nerfed it, and play along with it. Also, one thing that made me MORE curious, how many of you people that are whining like children have a MAIN toon thats a rit?
Thorton2006
I play a Rit in both PvE and PvP and love the class. This change is annoying, but nothing that is going to destroy my builds. However, what is really irritating are the reduced recharge times coupled with the exhaustion. With an average energy pool of 50, I can't spam a quick recharge spell that is exhausting my energy. If the exhaustion is meant to stop me from spamming, then well done, I have stopped. But why the reduced recharge times?
If a Rit spell has to have exhaustion, increase the recharge time and some benefit (specifically, Dissonance/Disenchantment could last for 45 seconds and have a 30 recharge) - my two cents.
If a Rit spell has to have exhaustion, increase the recharge time and some benefit (specifically, Dissonance/Disenchantment could last for 45 seconds and have a 30 recharge) - my two cents.
Stormlord Alex
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Originally Posted by Thorton2006
But why the reduced recharge times?
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It's like Obsidian Flame, or the Mind spells - you need to judge when the best time to cast it is, weigh up if the exhaustion is worth it, and if you really need something dead.
GloryFox
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Sazgo
To say pve rits arent effected is totally wrong. Spirit rift and ancestors rage was one of the only ways i was getting into elite missions/doa without being a handicap to the group, as it was possible to argue that you can take the place of an ele in the build but now you cant at all, ancestors rage is a joke in its current state, it may as well have a 20-30 sec recharge, spirit rift 2 sec cast time is a huge dps loss as well, i was relying on arcane echo's spirit rift with ghostly haste up before and in between you use your e-management skills but now more time is spent casting what is still the same nuke and nothing has been gained. Arcane echo ancestors rage made it possible to nuke moving targets as well but its kind of a joke now full grey energy bar so fast.
I like to bring something useful to a group with my rit not just be a bad monk/ele that shouldnt be there if people wanted the most effective setup.
On spirits, i was using anguish and wanderlust in the same build as there is currently no useful elite for the offensive spirit spammer build, having 2 with exhaustion just messes you up totally and i see this as an unessessary change, spirits cant be directly controlled and dont do 'spike' damage at all so why the need to nerf.
I wont even consider carrying passive effect ashes when i have to deal with exhaustion with my already average energy pool.
I would of thought if you want to fix a spike you lower the base damage and compensate with this with changeing recharge/energy cost/cast time. Adding exhaustion and cast times just means you cant sustain a good level of damage over time.
I like to bring something useful to a group with my rit not just be a bad monk/ele that shouldnt be there if people wanted the most effective setup.
On spirits, i was using anguish and wanderlust in the same build as there is currently no useful elite for the offensive spirit spammer build, having 2 with exhaustion just messes you up totally and i see this as an unessessary change, spirits cant be directly controlled and dont do 'spike' damage at all so why the need to nerf.
I wont even consider carrying passive effect ashes when i have to deal with exhaustion with my already average energy pool.
I would of thought if you want to fix a spike you lower the base damage and compensate with this with changeing recharge/energy cost/cast time. Adding exhaustion and cast times just means you cant sustain a good level of damage over time.
Diddy bow
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Originally Posted by pingu666
actully the reduced skill cost is nice. i think wanderlust needs a buff in some way tho
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.Channeling magic is pretty much air magic, so it should have exaulstion like air magic as well.
As for spirit spamming i think exustion is a good balence for it. stops people putting up a massive wall of spirits and just waiting on the other team. OFc the other team deosnt want to just run into them all. GG stalemate...
Riotgear
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Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X
What a ridiculous comparison. The ele has 85 - 115 energy pod and the the rit is 40-50 range. Do you even play GW?
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Offloading the cost into exhaustion allows skills to be less expensive provided they are mutually-exclusive and not spammed. While it doesn't make any sense on Wielder's Strike, exhaustion is, in general, a way of providing convenient and flexible abilities by allowing overdependence to be controlled by something other than harsh energy costs or recharges.
Adding exhaustion and reducing costs effectively makes it easier to make builds around one "powerful" spirit without getting screwed on energy, while making it harder for builds that revolve around making a forest of KD/interrupt/de-prot shit.