Epic armor unlockable only by maxing titles (i.e Lengedary Gaurdian)

Sad, but true. But the difference between buying IVI title and buying FoW armor is cost. IVI is going to cost you a lot more.

Anyways..
/signed as I can get it

If you want to think with that opinion, then you can say that anything ingame is ebayable, and its not even worth trying to prevent it.

In which case we might aswell all go sit in a cave and just accept that ebay is going to overrun the entire game.

Maybe my idea will or wont help cut back on ebaying, who knows! But if it was to, is it not worth the try?

My argument is skill > grind.

Sure it takes skill to do all missions on Hardmode, but it takes considerably more skill to figure out how to defeat Mallyx. With the added bonus that if you get it right first go, it only takes 8 hours to do all quests + Mallyx. That cannot be said about getting the Guardian title.

btw.. responding to every /unsigned does not win you the thread. You've explained your case in the OP, your posts are getting repetative after that.

/signed

I like the idea. What if the only way to max the title was through pvp. If it was through pve it would be a boring grind like SS/LB titles.

/goplaywow

To be very honest.

Actually, you need to practice what you are preaching here. I never once said or claimed to assume anyone else didn't like the titles. I'll quote: .
One of the few friends left playing this game I know, is working towards all her titles and she loves it. I also never said anyone else didn't like HM. Just because you enjoy these aspects, doesn't mean everyone else does; try seeing it from a perspective other than your own.

Titles are NOT content though, they are just what they are named; titles. You are asking for making titles a mandatory "level grind" of sorts to enable access to actual content (in this case, the content being armor). This is no different than saying people can not access other content until certain title has been achieved. This is very similar to the horribly annoying faction farm quest (10k) to get through the Kurzick and Luxon areas.

Again, not signed. The title you earned is your reward and the one you opted to go after; whereas the armor sets are the reward(s) I opted for and worked towards. (Note: You are asking to force what you find fun on me, by making me grind the titles to get the optional reward of my choice... thus making the titles no longer optional).

Title grinding armor - /notsigned
More accomplishment armor (like FoW, Primevil, and Elite Canthan) - /signed

Ughh no one would hold a gun to your head and force you to grind those titles, to get this new armor.

Its a choice!!

Your gameplay wont be improved by using this armor.
It wouldnt more powerfull, stronger or give any advantages over other armor.

You talk like your being forced into aquiring this armor, but because you dont like to earn titles yourself you hate the idea.

I could say exactly the same thing about FOW armor, which requires hours of grinding to get gold and rare materials. I think ele FOW is kind of nice, but I dont winge and complain because I dont want to grind for it.

I accept that I wont ever have it and continue playing and use alternative cheaper armor that I can achieve.

I assume you already have max armor for your profession?

So if this new armor was to be introduced and it required LG, would your entire game fall apart or world fall apart if you couldnt get it?

I dont mean to be rude, but you give the impress of being a vanity player who wants the newest stuff all the time regardless of whether you need it.

If that is the case, then you cant say "well just because I dont want to aquire this armor the way its aquired, I dont think it should be added".

As you and I have said, there are people who enjoy grinding and maxing titles and this would be a reward for them. Plus titles have already been made a necessity to gain favor, so why not add to that? Anet has already forced us to max titles to gain favor for 70+ minutes!

But you seem to look at this ideas as..

"Right new armor has been added, I MUST HAVE IT but im being forced to grind through titles".

...im looking at this idea as...

"Ive spent months and nearly a year achieving the best pve title ingame, so I feel some reward would be nice."

It depends on your perspective, but you also have realise armor is optional and im talking about amor that would be available (presumably) at the VERY end of all 3 games and GWEN.

Kind of ultimate armor that you get for completing the ENTIRE game on normal and hard mode. Why isnt that acceptable?

If you play any other game on normal and then hard settings, you tend to get every increasing rewards for completing the game on harder settings.

At the minute we have NO rewards for completing the game in either normal or hard mode other then end game armor. But once you have done the game in normal you have got everything, and you get nothing extra from hard mode.

And my idea is the same as WoW how?

Im failing to see how playing WoW is going to give me my idea!

Eh.. can't be bothered to read the whole thread but I don't really have a problem with this idea so...

/signed

but... I do agree titles can be bought, I see people paying for runs through missions all the time. The way I see it, pretty much the only titles that can't be bought are cartographer, of all things. As you actually have to squeeze your ass into every crack on the map yourself.

Or maybe not, I guess you could pay a friend to do it for you.

Agree with the view that the max title track level should be higher than 'I'm Very Important'. Hell, I'm a title slacker and I'm only one away from PKM already.

Plus if you're going to flex your epeen, it might as well be a sizeable one.

Life and this world have truly become sad if people have to turn to a video game to feel a sense of accomplishment and pride, and in my opinion that IS NOT and SHOULD NOT BE what video games are about. Feeling a sense of pride and accomplishment is good in things like getting A's in school, being good at what you do for your extracarricular activites wethere its football team or the band, and acheiving those things involvles alot of hard work. Video games are about fun and you shouldnt have to dedicate your life to them to have fun playing them. In fact I hope that the developers get away from the grind altogether, the skill grind, the title grind, the fame grind, and just make the game fun to play so people will play because they think it is fun and not because they want to achieve Rank 12 so they can feel like they are better than the majority of people ingame.

Honestly there are things that are cool about the title system but it really has alot of downfalls in it as well.

HA Rank/Fame Title for example.

This title is really awesome and I love the emote, the downfall of it is what people have turned it into. "Forming R9 SF Spike, need blah, blah, blah....meet under bridge title on" (And ive been away from GW for a while so I dont even know if SF is still viable there because all of the forms of grinding in the game have pretty much turned me off) But my point is, Like I really need to have spent 1000 hours or more getting rank 9 to understand how to spike. Its not that hard, and its a video game people, comeon. Also, just to let you know I have been playing GW over 2 years(spent the first year doing mostly PvE), and Im not complaining because I dont have any rank, Im not a rank 9 by anymeans, I dont have quite that much free time on my hands, but anyways, Im just saying what people have turned the titleing system into sucks.

It is very hard for new people to get into the game in PvP because of this, and with other titles becoming more important I think this will spread into the pve world as well. I have seen players turned down many many times when trying to play in HA because they dont have the required rank. They can join unranked groups there arent many unranked groups there, and not that it takes a rocket scientist to play on any team in HA but putting the unranked groups agianst R9 groups is very frustrating for the newer players and the groups dont stay together for long, and break up after 1 or 2 attempts.

Your still missing the point;

Lets try this route.

You say you worked for a year to gain your PvE title. There you have it; you got your title. That's your reward. Gratz.

I worked for a year to gain all the sets of 15k armor, vabbian and so on. I now have my reward.

You are saying my "choice" of rewards should be limited by your "choice" of rewards in such a manner that unless I grind my way through your "choice" of rewards, I can't have access to my "choice" of rewards. Would it ruin my game? Actually yes it would. It would put yet more grind into a game I bought that was supposed to be grindless; yet Anet keeps adding this crap grind to it, and titles are the worst offenders. Adding content behind the grind is insulting and well, sucks.

Your comment about vanity player is not rude at all; it's actually rather ironic that you are looking for "unique" armor that few others would have access to; thus vanity is exactly what you are after. You are asking to have it two rewards for your efforts in your title; whereas the title itself is the reward. I too would like something for free; for all those hundreds of hours spent farming for mats and cash should have netted me something more than it did. However, it didn't; therefore, your choice of reward should not either.

Anyway, I've said enough on it. I can't see Anet making a move like this as it would further alienate the casual players by putting things out of their reach. Do they need the stuff? Of course not, titles aren't needed either; but it's all about fun, and limits on what anyone else might find fun is bad. Good luck to you.

I see your point and I totally respect it.

But your going to have to forgive me that I cant see how adding this armor would be "forcing" people or making titles "manditory". My reason for not understanding is (as I said), its all about choice and this armor wouldnt a necessity.

But I dont think we'll agree because we're looking at it from two different perspectives.

I can also relate to how you would feel, because (despite having 4 elite armor sets) Im currently grinding luxon points to get jade for luxon elite armor. Mainly cos I have little else to do.

Plus I admit I can be a vanity player at times. Im currently running around in white vabbian armor, so that says it all.

IF IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO DO IT IS NOT GRIND.

You do NOT need to get 15k armors. You do NOT need titles. It is NOT grind. Grinding is when you are required to do it to advance in the game. You can finish the game perfectly fine without getting titles, expensive armor, etc.

The people who say go play wow, probably have never even played wow or any other similar game that actually has grind. You don't know what grind is. Literally.

Yeah people don't realise it's not grind unless you need to do it to get it, YOU DON'T NEED to get the armor to advance in the game what so ever. Boo Hoo you want every prestige armor set well then if you want the armor earn it. This armor isn't going to have like uber epic awesome stats that are better than any other armor, so it's just another prestige armor for people to work for.

/signed Sure why not. As long as it doesn't look like reskinned rubbish armor.

/not signed

If i have to put in 100 hours on some stupid title just to get a piece of armor I want, i'll go play wow

Want a sense of acomplishment? click on your title, thats you're acomplishment, stop trying to change guildwars into a game it clearly isnt

yeah as i think about it more it would be a nice feature but not nessicary.

i loved ab, then those skilsl came out and i fealt i had to have them and made ab seem like a grind inaway i dont want that to happen to PvE

/not signed

Maybe if it was based only on GWEN titles, but something that requires players to have all 3 chapters? No. I've got all 3, but I know plenty with only one chapter. Are you saying they'd need to go out and buy the other chaps? FoW is core, so all can get, so it's fair. And as bad as grind is, people can still do it if they put in the time. But making people go out to buy the other chapters as a requirement is going too far.

Your going to have to explain that one to me!

How is adding one set of armor that requires LG to unlock it, changing the entire game into something it isnt? What would this be changing it into?

I really dont understand that statement!

How is this going to fundimentally change anything. Its only an idea to add one extra armor set that requires you have achieved Lengendary Gaurdian to buy it.

Yes I can see the entire Tyrian world calling apart now!!

This need to max titles to achieve stuff is nothing new. You have noticed the favor system has changed? You do know that maxing certain titles effect lockpick survival and salvage survival?

Titles already have incentives to complete them. But because those insentives dont result in a material object, people dont complain. Again the only argument I have seen against this idea is...

"I dont like to max titles, and if I cant have this armor then no one can"

...well I like FOW armor, but you dont see me winging because Im realistic that I will never buy it. The reason being that I hate elite zones and I hate the idea of spending hours farming gold, ectos and shards just for some flashy armor.

But you dont see me complaining about FOW armor do you?

There are countless things ingame that require one level of grind or another to unlock, achieve or buy. Im sure some people consider FOW or Vabbian armor a grind to buy, but they dont complain.

But again, I dont see how adding a title related armor set would fundimentally change the game? I dont mind debating this, but can someone please give a reason against this other then "I dont like to max titles, so it not fair on me".

Because I could use that exact same argument for FOW armor, Vabbian armor, Luxon/Kuzack armor and elite zone green weapons!! Everything in this game requires some level of grind or another, so you cant use that as a reason against it.

You have to put some effort in to get everything, and again its a choice! You dont have to own it!!!

/not signed

I dont want to see GW run around Titles as main topic in PvE.
I already hate the fact about factions points, sun's points and soon others GWEN titles on whose depends skills !!!
I have 10 characters max (every skills, 15k armor and every towns on the 3 maps) on 2 different accounts : do you think i have a big showy title as a reward for that ? NO ! so i dont like it ...
What i wanted basically was a sharable title by accounts and not only by char. BTW, accounts can not still be merged. :'(
Yeah, good commercial idea for ANet : i will have to buy 2 game GWEN as i did for Faction and Nightfall ... and they still dont want me to have my 2 accounts merged. Xx

/not signed

I completely agree with you and want to add some things. One of the best things about GW was that it made it possible for people that are not (and do not have the time to be) "hardcore" gamers to get into MMORPG's without lacking any of the depth that other MMORPGs have and without being bogged down like other MMORPGs. GW still required a good amount of dedication to play. The level at which skills become maxxed can be obtained by everyone after a reasonable amount of time and I hope this is maintained in GW2 even if the level cap is not. For nearly 2 years GW was the only game I played because it does require alot of time to develop your characters and that was ok because its the only game I wanted to play.

The game is now taking a new direction because of the influence of the title system which is actually limiting its playability to those that are not "hardcore gamers" which has really turned me off and I think it will turn alot of other casual gamers off as well, which are probably the major majority of people that play the game. Shortly after the release eluding to the importance of titles in EOTN and GW2 alot of my friends played and worked on titles but after a while we simply got sick of the grind of it and most of my friends stopped playing, and werent on as much. I continued to play for sometime after, but recently have turned to other games to play in my spare time, although I do miss GW and what it used to be.

Rewarding the "hardcore players" who have the time to play this game for 8hrs a day or more is ok, but the reward should not be with special skills or items that other cannot obtained by anyone in the game in a reasonable amount of time. Its hard enough to get the 15K armor now, and it is a major factor for playing and developing your characters. Special emotes or benefits related to the title someway ingame should be enough of a reward. In some cases the emotes and titles themselves have already made the game so you can only play it if you are a "hardcore gamer" and it shouldnt be like that. Its not you you need to spend a gazillion hours playing in order to understand any HA team concept, or to be able to play effectively in certain PVE areas. In HA you cant even really play their unless you are rank 6 or higher unless you want to spend more time looking for a group than you actually do playing the game. On top of that you will be lucky if that group stays together for more than a single round. With all the emphasis being placed on titles this is going to extend into the PVE world as well. Groups are now starting to form in PVE areas requiring certain LB ranks, and I have seen people in AB areas requiring Luxon or Kurzick Ranks.

Like I said, I have been turned off of guildwars for a while now and havent really looked into what it takes to max out the luxon/kurzick skills in detail and dont know how reasonable it is to max these skills out, but I definitely agree with you that the titles themselves are kind of a slippery slope and any rewards beyond say the a title with maybe an emote and some useful benefit like the treasure hunter track has is definitely a very slippery slope.

I already pre ordered EOTN and will play it because it will bring GW, probably my top favorite game of alltime to an end. However if what I can do and obtain in GW2 is going to depend on me being a "hardcore gamer" and grinding out titles I and probably alot of people like me will not be buying it.

I don't understand why those saying "more grinding for armor, nt!" As the OP mentioned, it's not a necessity. Just like FoW armor. If you earned it, good for you but you did grind for it, money wise. Just not for a title. Come about the same thing. Then there was torment weapons which also can be considered a grind should you earn the respective gemstones.

Those people saying that the game is supposed to be fun and not grinding, it still is, again, you don't HAVE to get the armor. Again, just like FoW armor and torment items. I don't have either and I am still having fun. If you feel you HAVE to get the items, well then, that's another issue altogether.

And the OP just suggested certain max titles, if this was implemented, who knows which titles would be used. Say it was Max Sunspear title, you can earn an epic sunspear armor. I think that would be neat. Can earn a somewhat 'unique' armor in a fraction time than a FoW one.

This would also encourage keeping the favor of the gods where some people are worried at some point, there will never ever be favor. Which I doubt entirely but that's another issue.

Bottom line, I think it's nice that GW offers something special to the more hardcore players, somewhere in between FoW and regular armor. I feel this would be the case. If you feel this is a grind, then simply don't purchase it. What's the problem? I am happy with the armor I am using just fine. The titles in question should definitely be something around the caliber of Legendary Guardian or Lightbringer than say R12 HA or R12 Kurzick/Luxon. Basically attainable by anyone with a certain amount of time spent, just not TOO much. Speaking of Legendary Guardian, I think it would be a good idea since it would promote more HM mission groups, I personally had trouble finding them. edit: Well I think some bias came to the last point. I was thinking why not have various levels of epic armor. Honestly, why not have a R12 Kurzick/Luxon epic armor? Just because I will never spend that much time on it doesn't mean others can't be rewarded for it. Yes they have the allegiance skills instead but I am mainly talking about the titles in respect to the time it requires to achieve it.

/signed

edit: Other points should be brought up. Those who feel they need to acquire everything just because it's available.
What about minis? The grawl for example. Are you going to complain you paid the game to have fun than to have to attend a convention? Or have to be 100k+x ectos for it? Mini Ghostly, are you going to complain you didn't get all of the items in the game because you don't PvP or HA?

You didn't purchase the preorder, so you don't have access to the bonus items. Do you HAVE to have those items?

Apply this to the epic armor idea. It's not like you won't get a high end armor (in terms of stats).

We are saying this because the post is implying a additional grind for armor, a title grind. Armor is as you say already a grind, its a gold and materials grind which can be obtained doing anything you want and not just doing 1 thing like ABing all day.

I could somewhat agree to making armor a title grind if the gold and material grind were eliminated, but think that this would probably make the game too repetitive and redundant. This would also probably segregate the gaming community into doing 1 thing because armor is the major factor for the vast majority of PvE players.

Also, mini pets have ne effect on the game and i wouldnt object to mini pets as a reward for titles. Armor is considered by most people to be an extension of their character and very important in terms of character development.

Seing a lot of people with different armors and colours is fun.

I dont want to see everybody black or white with the same armor design cuz you know ... "this one is better cuz it costs a lot more *proud*" ...

I prefer to see people with designs they like the best showing somewhat their taste.

United of B..... *woops sorry*

I have no FOW armor for any character since I don't like the grind associated with it, and I don't feel the need for such armor.
If someday I should change my mind, the armor is there, I could grind for materials and money and take it.

I like the OP's idea.
Even if I haven't got the required titles to get the armor, the armor will be there (it's just a different skin in the end, not more powerful or something that will put out the casual gamer from the scene), and by grinding the titles (as one grinds for a FOW) you can take it.

So, more opportunities, more different skins, more content...
Even if it is there, it doesn't meen that you have to take everything the designers put into the game.

So I ask myself:
- is this thing affecting my gameplay? No
- will I be forced to do it? No
- will it be something enjoyable by other players, even if I don't care about it or I havent' got the time and dedication needed to get it? Yes

GW will still be casual-player oriented. Max armor/max weapons/everything unlockable is still there.

So... even if I don't care about such kind of armor, or I won't be able to get it :

/signed

I don't understand people that say "I don't want to spend X hours doing the titles, so don't add this kind of armor"... With the same reasoning someone could say "I don't want to spend X hours farming for ectos and shards, so remove FOW armor"...

/signed
This is very good suggestion in my opinion, because people who spent weekes, months, years for titles should have some special in GW. People who farming moneys for Obsidian Armor have a nice thing. Why title farmers shouldn't get something like this.

What Fish is trying to say in all those mile-long posts is this: "Oh noez, too many people have FoW armor and it's not elite anymore, plz add some uber elite epic armor which I can get straight away since I allready have titles, so my e-peen is a bit longer. Kktnxbai"
So why not, /signed, if that is gonna make you feel more important. Personaly, I don't give a flying fu*k.

"Too many people have FoW"

With 4 million copies sold I'm not surprised, especially considering many people like myself have been with the series for over 2 years now. Furthermore, how does it effect you in the least? If you're one of those people who's had FoW since prophecies you still have that prestige of being one of the first handful of people to get it so early and to have it for so long. Or are you so insecure that you have to have some way to show other people your personal achievements for them to have any worth?

Even if an armor set were introduced under the suggested conditions, you would still see it fairly often in my opinion as many people have had nothing to do BUT farm titles for the last 6 months.

Will never happen, although it's a proper idea.

ArenaNet doesn't have the resources to make 20 sets of armor (10 professions + 2 genders) for a title which few people will get.

Since the overwhelming 50/50 split on this I won't sign it as is.The argument is tie the armor to a title which is mostly a pve improvment.(btw I am a pve player)Personally I think if an "epic armor" is to implemented it should be tied to exp not to titles. I also would like to add, that it shouldn't be armor but an "aura" like a boss of the approprite class. We all have our favy charecters to play,and this is somthing that the "hard core" players in both pve and pvp can get behind. Set the bar really high like 10 million or so, this way you also are not "giving" this away to everyone and you dont need to own all the campaigns to get it. Fow armor used to be prestegious but is now common.I would love to have a visible way to show that this is my primary charecter and that im not an e-bay, just turned level 20, NOOB.

If this is the point then cool if not I must be misunderstanding the reason to add in "epic armor"........

Armor has NO effect on the game. All level 20 armor has the same stats available. Having armor that costs 5k (1k each piece) + materials or 75k+ materials makes no difference. If you don't want to get the max title then get the 5k armor. It has no affect on the game.

Personally I wasnt asking for this to look or feel important (well not 100%), I was suggesting this because (as you have quoted) alot of people have the FOW armor and the reason (aside from effort) is that currently all armor can be very easily bought with enough gold.

If you are already an oober rich player, with stacks of ectos and shards, its not going to require any effort to role a new character and buy them FOW armor in about a day.

Having one set of armor that requires your character to have (for instance) Legendary Gaurdian maxed out, means this armor actually does require effort everytime to unlock.

Its not just a case of the rich players rolling a new player, going to the crafter and making nice flashy elite sets.

Even if you scrapped the need for gold and materials and ONLY required the max title, I wouldnt complain. But the main point of this idea is to add armor that requires genuine effort by that character.

Plus all existing armors have no real eliteness to them. You do purely just need enough gold and materials and you can get ANY armor. Even FOW if you put enough time and grind into it.

The armor I suggest would also be available on an equal footing to ALL players. Even the rich would have to get off their arses and put some effort in.

But as Ive said 100 times now, we have lots of other max sets available if you didnt want it and no one is forcing you. I cant help but the get the impression all the /notsigned replies are from people who have more money then they can handle, and they just dont like the idea of being made to put some actual effort in to unlock it.

But as others have said, FOW armor could be looked at as a grind. Buying and farming gold + ectos + shards isnt my idea of fun and I consider it a grind. Even luxon and vabbian armor is a grind to get rare materials. But we dont winge when you cant get that.

Yes, so say no to grind and put an armor crafter behind elite missions!

and btw, I do not have more money then I can handle, I'm probably poorer then you.

I am opposed to the titles being used this way simply because they are too difficult to get. They take too much time and cost too much gold - directly or indirectly.

/not signed

First off, I do want to say that im not completely against you but I also have some points that I want to make after this. If this is just 1 set of armor to fall into the same class as FOW armor I could agree, as long as other elite armors including FOW are still available through buying them. Honestly if this is just getting the Legendary Title or whatever I think it would actually require less time and effort than it does to truly earn FOW armor, and Im working on that anyway, but I am definitely against the title grind + gold and materials grind in it. I dont think you should have to fall into the hardcore category to obtain the elite things in the game and adding to the material grind with a title grind as well would do that. I would rather see the game as more dependant on your skills and how well you use your brain in the game to make it easier to make your achievements. Also if this armor was made, I would like to see the armor itself or an improved version of it to be able to be passed on into GW2. Maybe the stats would have to level with the character to reach the maximal level, but that seems reasonable, and it would provide a benefit to doing all of this stuff because we all know that GW is coming to an end and we are all going to have to start over. Passing on our items at least wouldnt make it seem like such a total loss, especially if you have truly earned high end things liek FOW armor. I just finally acquired the materials to get my FOW armor around this past December or so, and believe me it is an acheivement that I worked to get for nearly 2 years.

I dont like that you think everyone in this game that has a little bit of gold in their storage has done nothing to earn it. I have always liked that you can use a high level character to obtain things to help out your newer characters in guildwars, and I dont think there is anything wrong with that, and it is work. This game would really be a grind if you had to earn nearly 100k with each character to get your armor. There are smart ways to make gold in the game and that is ok. You are making it sound like people that have acquired alot of gold in the game have done nothing to earn it, which is wrong. The only case that this is true in is in the case that they ebayed their gold, and that is what needs to fixed. Making the game bot proof would fix it, and solve the problem of superhigh prices in the economy.

Just because FOW armor is becoming more common does not mean its not elite. The game has been around for over 2 years and people have been working on it a long time. The longer that the people that want it have to get it, the more people you will see with it. Also prices of ecto and shards have come down. I remember trapping in UW with my first character getting ecto when it was selling to the trader for like 14-17k or so. It was not the most efficient way to get it, but as time went on I learned more.

Anyway my point is, this new armor would be no different, it would be more common after a period of time. The only difference would be that ebaying gold could not contribute to this armor. I think that ebaying gold is done mainly through bots, and that the bots are what should be fixed.

/signed under the following conditions
1 set of elite armor the way describe in the same class as FOW and acquired through the max HM mission title I can agree with as long as other forms of elite armor of the same class like FOW and 15K ascended are available through material as well.

There seems to be a miss-conception that I'm a hardcore player and/or that anyone aiming for Legendary Guardian is a hardcore player.

I dont personally concider myself hardcore and I dont concider LG a hardcore title. Hard Mode missions arent that hard, they they require hardcore players to complete them.

You just require good players and alot of patience.

I also personally feel to achieve protector and then guardian should be a natural progression for most players. If you play a FPS like Halo you would do it on normal first and then replay it on a harder setting without thinking, because you want a better challenge.

I look at LG and hard mode in the same respect. Its a natural progession to move into hard mode once you have protector and its not isolate to just hardcore players.

I would also have expected that any self-respecting player who loves PvE would want to achieve LG because its fundimentally the highest achievement you can gain in terms of PvE.

I could be wrong and obviously some people consider LG a grind and have no want for it. But my question to them would be "why do you play PvE if you have no want to get protector and guardian?".

This is why I cant agree or accept this idea of maxing LG a grind or having it mean this armor is only for hardcore players. Playing hardmode missions is alot easier and more accessible then playing most of the elite zones, and yet we have FOW armor which can only be accessed inside an elite zone.

Yet people are perfectly willing (including non-hardcore players) to spend hours grinding ectos, shards and piles of gold to get FOW armor. Why? Because it gives you some kind of advantage, or because its nice looking or because you want to feel l33t? I couldnt care.

But the point is that if people are willing to strive for FOW armor by going through hours of grinding by doing nothing more then farming or trading and a few easy quests, then why not have an armor set that actually requires you complete missions in hard mode?

What at the minute do we have a reward for completeing the entire game in hard mode? Nothing!

If this was a FPS and you completed it in hard mode you would normally recieve some kind of reward for doing it in a harder setting. Thats one failing of hard mode, is the lack of reward other then slightly better drops.

Also what about the weapons in DOA which require rare drops from that elite zone? Those are completely out of reach of me, because I dont have the time to farm those rare material drops. So I could complain that those are unfairly out of reach, but I dont.

The fact is that we already have stuff ingame that could be concidered purely for hardcore players like FOW armor, DOA weapons, Hero normal and elite armor. All of those require endless hours of grinding or playing through hard elite zones.

All of which are out of reach of me personally because I dont enjoy elite zones, but do you see me saying "well i dont like elite zones, so its not fair I cant get those items or weapons, ragh ragh ragh"! No you dont.

I accept that things exist that I will never get my hands on, but I dont mind because they wont improve my gameplay. They are purely athetic!

no way, stop making this a generic grinding game.

/notsigned

Grinding is evil.

Well dunno if you noticed, but GWEN has added armor that requires you to max certain titles!!!