Ok so GWEN came and went, what shall we nerf?

stamenflicker

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen
The game is too easy now, and these skills just make things easier. An easier game means less fun for everybody. It is not a matter of what you enjoy, but what is best for the game that matters in the end. And allowing more broken overpowered skills into the game is that what is best. People play certain sets of builds for a reason. They are balanced and effective. People should not be forced into playing say some weird body shot - finish him build over say their traditional splinter shot B/P build.

Sure you can just do whatever by using NPCs but that is not how this game was meant to be played so it should not be made to be a single player game with AIM. The game is meant to be played with real people, and that is how it should be balanced. With this in mind, some skills should be limited to one per party to prevent constant abuse of them.

As for saying things are not overpowered now because we only got to play a bit of the game, means that odds are there are more overpowered things out there. If we can get a balance before the game goes live there will be less inbalance overall, and it will be a better experience for all of us. I swear this board has schizophrenia. Proof positive that you'll never please all the people all the time. If GW EN is too easy, stay in Domain of Anguish with the other 12 masochists that enjoy it.

I have a good friend with an eleven year old kid who is frustrated because he can't beat Nightfall. I was frustrated because I beat it with all ten characters in the first couple of months.

A-Net isn't going to be able to appease everyone, they'll just keep us busy for a while, then move us to the next thing.

I thought GW EN was just fine. Was it easy to mindlessly run around and kill the berzerking zoo? Sure it was. But some of the dungeons were very challenging, and we fought one of the ele bosses on lvl two of a dungeon for several minutes before figuring out what we needed to do. It was fun.

I log in at 9:00 after my kids are in bed. I like having something to do that doesn't spit me back out at the start if I die. I play the game for enjoyment and things like DoA are a hassle. Do I wish DoA would get a big fat nerf? Sure, I do. But then I can accept it exists for people like you who want everything to be a headache.

One of the purposes of Nightfall and the zone effects was to force people to try new skills and branch out with something other than the standard builds. Mission successful. But what A-Net doesn't need to do is start nerfing things just because people have figured out how to do it. Keep the game fun, and let the handful of people that enjoy a challenge stick to the challenge missions if they get too bored.

Aleta

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

California

TTP

R/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griev
I think people should get their accounts banned for a few days for having more than three ele's in their party. This is obviously an exploit that they are abusing.

Also I feel the norn title track should give no bonuses because that is unfair. I don't like snow and I am therefore afraid of going into the far shiverpeaks. I had to get my brother to play half of prophecies for me because of that. BANNED!!!! for coming up with a play style

Exploiting how. I have heros I GET TO CHOOSE which heros I use.
What do you want a pop up box "oh so very sorry you have two eles" How about when I use two monks that an exploit too??

As for not liking snow? err why play then? it's a game not real good grief

stamenflicker

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleta
BANNED!!!! for coming up with a play style

Exploiting how. I have heros I GET TO CHOOSE which heros I use. Agree totally. Some people like tossing in on a group with six smiting monks spamming SoJ. And with the new skill that doubles your smiting spells divine favor bonus, it might actually be even more fun to try something like this. The last thing anyone needs is having a playstyle they enjoy nerfed.

Personally, I love mindlessly running around the torment maps with my A/E shadow nuker. Sometimes I only kill four or five baddies, die, then rinse and repeat. That's not what the game was designed for at all, but that doesn't mean that my play style should get nerfed.

CyberMesh0

CyberMesh0

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2005

Charter Vanguard [CV]

N/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by fenix
Because it shows that you have it on...but your Health doesn't go up. Embarrassed yet? Yeah, I am- because I'm the ONLY person that's ever posted such a silly comment ever on this board.

/sarcasm

Keithark

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

Be Aggressive B E Aggressive [AGRO]

E/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by stamenflicker
If GW EN is too easy, stay in Domain of Anguish with the other 12 masochists that enjoy it.
Humm....I might actually go to DoA with these new PvE skills....might even be playable now

trobinson97

trobinson97

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Guildless :(

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esan
In my opinion (note keyword "opinion"), none of the PvE skills should be so good that it becomes stapled to the skill bar. Currently, "Finish Him!" is one such skill. Dwarven Stability is possibly anoher. Call me old fashioned, but I like my games to have just a little bit of challenge.

By the way, the if-you-don't-like-it-don't-use-it retort is exceptionally silly. Why, besides masochism, would one intentionally not want to play in the most effective manner?
Laughing my ass off at this comment. The if-you-don't-like-it-don't-use-it retort is not only not silly, it's full to the brim with common sense. If you want monsters to hit you harder and not take too much damage from you (which sounds pretty masochistic to me), simply take skills that don't do much damage and little protection. There are plenty of them out there.

Use some low level armor too while you're at it, there's your challenge. If that's not enough, do it in *gasp* HARD mode! If hard mode is too easy, well maybe it's time for you to move on man, because I don't see an Extreme mode coming.

However, If you want to play in the most effective manner, then bring the most effective skills. Lol, you people slay me.

Ringsgold

Ringsgold

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2006

NĂ¡strandir

IMO sarcasm needs a nerf badly, it's soooo OP'd it totally pwns this forum.

Especially this topic.

Also, [email protected] people blaming PvPers, you should make a song, it worked in south park

Sweet Mystery

Sweet Mystery

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Shadow Hunters Of Light [SHOL]

R/

Can't believe someone wants stuff nerfed.... duh.... don't like, don't play. Simple solution.

As to heroes, I like I can add what heros I like to meet a situation. If I need 2 MMs, then I do. If I need 2 monks, then I do. If I want 2 Eles then I do. Now I could have 3 Eles and Cynn... chuck in Winter and lots of cold damage, yeah would help.... but who knows what the final fights will be like... may need them...

Stop the moaning about skills and heroes and get on with playing... you can always NOT use them you know and let others enjoy playing the game.

Chrono Re delle Ere

Chrono Re delle Ere

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

The Land of Hyrule

[GoE]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Reeveheart
I will say this about people wanting skill nerfs...

anet put that the skills would be pve-only because they PLANNED on them being a bit stronger than normal skills.... so bugger off! Thus why you can't use them in pvp o_o

we havent seen enough yet that would merit a nerf I think... MAYBE getting rid of trample... its like EVERY monster has it! Indeed. I read an interview where A-Net said:

"we didn't have to worry about balancing pve skills, in fact, they are a bit stronger than normal skills".

So...what's the matter? Do u all guys were really thinking that gwen would have been all "DoA like" ? O my gosh.

Bergrom

Bergrom

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Alabama

The Ethereal Guard (TeG)

W/R

Engel is nuts. I know him and I disagree with him completely. GWEN does NOT need to be made harder. Jeez.

I found it to be terribly tough. Heck, I barely made it to the Eye of the North! I spent oodles of coin getting run all over the place to I could get a character to Level 20 and spent all my "earned" coin to buy some 15K armor so I could get good defense stats AND look marvelous. What I got in return was hours of frustration and a destroyed mouse.

GWEN is way too hard. It needs to be made more accessible to the casual or new player. I never got a chance to test new skills or builds but I can speak concerning zone balance and it's much to tough for the average player.

I wish now I had not pre-ordered GWEN. I'd have just taken my time fighting through the first game and saved my piles of coin for some "phat lute".

Bah. Nerf it now and save us the aggravation and pain of waitiing.

brian78wa

Banned

Join Date: Sep 2006

Spirit Check

W/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griev
I think people should get their accounts banned for a few days for having more than three ele's in their party. This is obviously an exploit that they are abusing.
Accounts banned? Exploit? lol How on earth is this an exploit for using the skills and the heroes that GW gave us??? if they thought it was an exploit then we wouldnt now have a 3rd hero ele.

OlMurraniKasale

OlMurraniKasale

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

Seattle

Zaishen Order

Rt/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergrom
Heck, I barely made it to the Eye of the North! I spent oodles of coin getting run all over the place to I could get a character to Level 20 and spent all my "earned" coin to buy some 15K armor so I could get good defense stats AND look marvelous. What I got in return was hours of frustration and a destroyed mouse.

GWEN is way too hard. It needs to be made more accessible to the casual or new player. New players shouldn't buy GWEN - its design is definitely for those who've spent time going through the other parts of GW (not running or sprinting or any of that "make-me-a-god-now-please") ideology.

I'm a very casual player with three campaigns under my belt and two years time, and GWEN wasn't too hard. GWEN requires a certain skillset that has nothing to do with the skillbar. Strategy borne from experience will get the frustration level down - my suggestion would be to skip GWEN and go back to the campaign you sprinted through. There's a metric tonne of good content there to enjoy.
----------------------
The Bears Albescent - a damn good story I wrote

brian78wa

Banned

Join Date: Sep 2006

Spirit Check

W/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergrom
Engel is nuts. I know him and I disagree with him completely. GWEN does NOT need to be made harder. Jeez.

I found it to be terribly tough. Heck, I barely made it to the Eye of the North! I spent oodles of coin getting run all over the place to I could get a character to Level 20 and spent all my "earned" coin to buy some 15K armor so I could get good defense stats AND look marvelous. What I got in return was hours of frustration and a destroyed mouse.

GWEN is way too hard. It needs to be made more accessible to the casual or new player. I never got a chance to test new skills or builds but I can speak concerning zone balance and it's much to tough for the average player.

I wish now I had not pre-ordered GWEN. I'd have just taken my time fighting through the first game and saved my piles of coin for some "phat lute".

Bah. Nerf it now and save us the aggravation and pain of waitiing. I would have to say youre the one thats nuts. It was very easy. For example.
I was monking in the Frostmaw dungeon we had 6 people. I had my 2 year old niece jumping on me the whole time blocking my view for half the game. Yet we still mananged to get through it np. If you can have someone jumping on you and still make it through its too easy.

brian78wa

Banned

Join Date: Sep 2006

Spirit Check

W/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ringsgold

Also,
[email protected] people blaming PvPers, you should make a song, it worked in south park Actually for alot of the nerfs it WAS because of pvp. N/Mo in pvp nerf N/Rt in pvp nerf. BoA in pvp nerf thats just 3 examples

Bergrom

Bergrom

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2005

Alabama

The Ethereal Guard (TeG)

W/R

You may be right, Brian. I may not have been distracted enough. I guess I could pay some of the local kids to bug the crap out of me while I play GWEN. In the alternative, I could get blind drunk and get the same dreadful results.

It all seemed so easy watching the pro-runners get me to and through the desert. And the fighting has been cool even though I usually die for some goofy reason. Of course, they need to nerf the henchmen too because they are awful. I tried playing with others but after a while, they stop rezzing me and leave me dead someplace. Sucks and I really don't understand why they do that to me.

I just think the game is too hard. Way too hard. I worked all week getting runners to get me to Level 20 and I did not have fun. I can't make up my mind whether I will bother making a second, third or (God forbid) a fourth character. First, I can't afford to buy the gold to get another character to Level 20. I used up my allowance just getting this one raised over the past week.

I think when GWEN goes live this weekend, I will try taking some henchmen with me rather than going by myself. I might even capture an elite. That would be nice since I can't seem to buy one anywhere.

That said, I appreciate your perspective. Maybe things will get better after I play a little more.

Silrathi

Silrathi

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: May 2005

the Other Vancouver

The Ethereal Guard [TeG]

Mo/Me

No, Engel is right, this expansion is too easy. It's 'ascended content' is it not? I took that to mean it was gonna be harder-than-hell-you-better-be-pro-to-consider-it, and instead I get the same idiot rangers in every PUG that can't distract an orison of healing even with a Broad Head Arrow or monks that think the entire protection line is useless. So what? I gotta hench everything to escape the morons? This was supposed to be ELITE man... and it's just not.

Bah!

Griev

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2005

Brantford, Ontario, Canada

Perfectly Normal Beasts [MEAT]

W/

I think we're straying from the real problem here. The game is too linear, forcing meto go through the snow and making me very uncomfortable. We should be able to skip it or something. In my country, Canada, we don't tolerate snow.

And as for the ele's you people need to stop exploiting. EIGHT in a party? I hope you all get banned. There are 3 ele heroes only because some people are afraid of centaurs or asuras. I personally fear felines.

GloryFox

GloryFox

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Good ol' USA, where everyone else wants to be

Now Plays World of Warcraft on Whisperwind

I don't see any reason to nerf anything as of now except faction title amounts. The game was well designed and is at a pace and difficulty level that I personally enjoy playing. The only Nerf I see needed is the faction amounts for Norn, Asura, etc.... Way too high IMO, this game is supposed to be skill over time not the other way around.

I don't see this game as Skill over time anymore when casual players get left in the dust by prepubesant kiddies who have far too much time on their hands playing the game 24/7 then posting on forums about how faction reqs are too low.

Coraline Jones

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Modified Soul Society

Mo/R

I cannot believe that there is even a discussion about "nerfing" PvE-only skills.

If they make the game too easy, well then don't use them. Lots of games have cheat codes. Just because they are there doesn't mean you're forced to use any of them.

There's constantly conflicting information about how "difficult" the game is. In the Services forum, people are paying lots of money to have runs through missions as they can't do it on their own. There's plenty of people that "LFG" every day in towns. Then there's topics like these where people that whine that the game is somehow too easy. Maybe people should realize that there are many different skill levels, and ArenaNet is trying to compensate for that.

I figured that if you're a good player, then you're not going to waste time just killing dumb mobs over and over just so you can get some lousy skills to "uber-l33t" level. You're going to just do the missions or quests and not worry about it. Then when Hard Mode comes out, you'll have all the challenge you need. But for those that are having trouble with the game, the option is there to take a slow-but-sure tactic of grinding away for a title that will allow you to use some powerful skills more effectively. What's wrong with that?

And along those lines, I don't think that any skill is overpowered if you have to basically needlessly grind to get them. It's not like you pay a plat at a skill vendor and you get the God Spell that kills all. No, you have to farm kills or quests over and over to work up a great title so you can have an uber-overpowered build. But in this thread, I see people saying that it's too easy to max out a title. So in other words, they want even more grind in the game. If anything, I'd say that's the very last thing Guild Wars--or any RPG--needs.

ANet, if you're reading this topic, please don't screw around with the skills. There's only a few things that GW has accomplished by increasing the difficulty of the game. The first is encouraging more cookie-cutter builds. The harder an area gets, the more the player is required to run a specific skill selection to counter the challenge provided by the game. The other thing is that it discourages grouping with PUGs, because you'll discover that heroes and henchmen are consistent and reliable in the quality of service they provide, and some random player might screw it up for you.

In other words, we get tons of skills but nobody uses over half of them, and we're in a multiplayer online game but everybody wants to avoid dealing with any stranger. What a great concept.

=====

Personally, I fail to understand that I can somehow kill a god in Nightfall, but we can't be allowed to get skills that instantly slaughter some stupid Stone Summit Dwarves in the Northern Shiverpeaks.

AlienFromBeyond

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Heros of Titans Realm [HotR]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griev
I think we're straying from the real problem here. The game is too linear, forcing meto go through the snow and making me very uncomfortable. We should be able to skip it or something. In my country, Canada, we don't tolerate snow.

And as for the ele's you people need to stop exploiting. EIGHT in a party? I hope you all get banned. There are 3 ele heroes only because some people are afraid of centaurs or asuras. I personally fear felines. Definitely some good laughs here. I can't believe you people are so gullible.

zanntos

zanntos

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergrom
I just think the game is too hard. Way too hard. I worked all week getting runners to get me to Level 20 and I did not have fun. I can't make up my mind whether I will bother making a second, third or (God forbid) a fourth character. First, I can't afford to buy the gold to get another character to Level 20. I used up my allowance just getting this one raised over the past week.

I think when GWEN goes live this weekend, I will try taking some henchmen with me rather than going by myself. I might even capture an elite. That would be nice since I can't seem to buy one anywhere.

That said, I appreciate your perspective. Maybe things will get better after I play a little more. OK, i can't tell if your posts are extremely sarcastic or just painfully new.
I'm new to the game (only started playing this month) and i had NO problem reaching the Eye. I found that while some things WERE indeed very difficult, playing smart with my Hero/Hench team there were few things i had any REAL problems with. I DID have issues with some of the solo quests due to my incomplete skill list, but meh i've been using this week to knock out the quests for those.

Reading your second to last paragraph, did you try to SOLO solo to the Eye? PLEASE tell me that's sarcasm and you have the sense to realize, "Party size 8" means take SOMETHING or get your rear handed to you. Granted this is coming from a guy who ALWAY takes full 8 hero hench when i can just because i like mowing through "easy mobs" and hunting down the "hard ones"

As for the Topic at hand of Nerfing PvE only skills, why bother, it's PvE only they don't HAVE to be balanced. And sure they may seem overpowered now, but we've only seen maybe a quarter of the expansion and there is no doubt that things can and will get more difficult. Quiet frankly we'll probably NEED them for some of the later missions.

isamu kurosawa

isamu kurosawa

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

United Kingdom

Me/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griev
I think we're straying from the real problem here. The game is too linear, forcing meto go through the snow and making me very uncomfortable. We should be able to skip it or something. In my country, Canada, we don't tolerate snow.

And as for the ele's you people need to stop exploiting. EIGHT in a party? I hope you all get banned. There are 3 ele heroes only because some people are afraid of centaurs or asuras. I personally fear felines. Having 8 ele's in a party would make you less effective than a balanced team

The game is designed to allow for many possible team setups anyway, Taking 3+ele's is in no way an exploit and to suggest banning people for it you must be very short sighted.

Also, it was stated from the beggining eye of the north would partially take playce in the far shiverpeaks and that the preview weekend would centre around that location alone. Do you honestly expect anet to remove all snow from the game just because you don't like it? Hey, why not run texmod and make all snow look like sand!

Definatly the dumbest set of posts ive seen in a lnog time.

Aleta

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

California

TTP

R/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Griev
I think we're straying from the real problem here. The game is too linear, forcing meto go through the snow and making me very uncomfortable. We should be able to skip it or something. In my country, Canada, we don't tolerate snow.

And as for the ele's you people need to stop exploiting. EIGHT in a party? I hope you all get banned. There are 3 ele heroes only because some people are afraid of centaurs or asuras. I personally fear felines.
This is the second time I have just sat here amazed at your uh hmmm
comments. Either you are just being an odd duck or you do not even understand the word *exploit" either way - and if it's sarcasm or whatever
well -

Engel the Fallen

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

Mo/Me

GWEN as most of us were lead to believe was supposed to be high end content. In the preview we saw mid level content with overpowered skills. How is this high end? Most of us already finished the Norm story path which should be a quarter of the game tops and got all the PvE only skills in one day. So about 5 days assuming there is a longer ending and the bulk should be one. Add a day or two of most players finish the bulk of the expansion and now are left with just grind for bonuses in GW2 if they wish to play that game.

The stuff we played was not even on par with late mid end content from Factions or Prop. Let alone true high end like DoA, or later FoW or UW. If you assume DoA is too hard for the normal player, then high end content is not for you. Improve your playing and you will be able to do it. Do not ask for a instant kill button though as some seem to want and which we practically already have.

As for balance for new players, this game is not for new players. You cannot create a new character in it, and IMO, it should be restricted to player who already beaten a game, not got run to the Droks and power leveled. The reason you see so many people paying for runs and runs through missions, is because they do not want to play, and would instead have their characters run through everything till they get to what they need to solo farm.

As for people being stuck completely, what did people expect when heroes are more powerful than players, and henchmen can even replace most PuGs? If someone is stuck, that is the nature of this game now. They have to get better to move on because unless they get a guild no one will help them except other people without in game friends or people as equally bad.

But for the majority of players we are all high level, been through elite areas, have various builds that work well in most areas, ideal armor sets and weapons so the high end game we get is just too easy. Most dungeons can be done with a bring whatever mindset and beaten the first time. I have yet to have even half the party wipe in the dungeons, let alone the easy outside that I was already solo farming a bit near the end of the expansion.

Oh well I guess this is what the community wanted then. A brainless grind game that will give them plenty of time to build up their hall of monuments for free stuff come the second game. Just sad this game is easier than the three starter games and no doubt as more PvE skills and heroes become unlocked it will only get easier.

The only things that should give any player even slight pause is the solo stuff, because then they cannot bring overpowered heroes, and have to think of a bar to take on stuff alone. Was fun watching everyone cry because they could not beat griffin or the fighting arena and wanting both to be made even easier.

WarKaster

WarKaster

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

Los Angeles

SlingBlades

D/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen
GWEN as most of us were lead to believe was supposed to be high end content. In the preview we saw mid level content with overpowered skills. How is this high end? Most of us already finished the Norm story path which should be a quarter of the game tops and got all the PvE only skills in one day. So about 5 days assuming there is a longer ending and the bulk should be one. Add a day or two of most players finish the bulk of the expansion and now are left with just grind for bonuses in GW2 if they wish to play that game.

The stuff we played was not even on par with late mid end content from Factions or Prop. Let alone true high end like DoA, or later FoW or UW. If you assume DoA is too hard for the normal player, then high end content is not for you. Improve your playing and you will be able to do it. Do not ask for a instant kill button though as some seem to want and which we practically already have.

As for balance for new players, this game is not for new players. You cannot create a new character in it, and IMO, it should be restricted to player who already beaten a game, not got run to the Droks and power leveled. The reason you see so many people paying for runs and runs through missions, is because they do not want to play, and would instead have their characters run through everything till they get to what they need to solo farm.

As for people being stuck completely, what did people expect when heroes are more powerful than players, and henchmen can even replace most PuGs? If someone is stuck, that is the nature of this game now. They have to get better to move on because unless they get a guild no one will help them except other people without in game friends or people as equally bad.

But for the majority of players we are all high level, been through elite areas, have various builds that work well in most areas, ideal armor sets and weapons so the high end game we get is just too easy. Most dungeons can be done with a bring whatever mindset and beaten the first time. I have yet to have even half the party wipe in the dungeons, let alone the easy outside that I was already solo farming a bit near the end of the expansion.

Oh well I guess this is what the community wanted then. A brainless grind game that will give them plenty of time to build up their hall of monuments for free stuff come the second game. Just sad this game is easier than the three starter games and no doubt as more PvE skills and heroes become unlocked it will only get easier.

The only things that should give any player even slight pause is the solo stuff, because then they cannot bring overpowered heroes, and have to think of a bar to take on stuff alone. Was fun watching everyone cry because they could not beat griffin or the fighting arena and wanting both to be made even easier. OK......so if it was only the a preview and only the first area we see...whats to say crap doesn't get harder as you move along in the game....do you have some magical power that let you see something everyone else didn't?


While I do agree with you that what we have seen so far is not overly difficult especially for a well seasoned player who actually played the game as was intended and not ran through or power leveled through each campaign. I'll say what have said it since preview weekend (theres a reason why its in bold text, guess why). Wait until Friday to see the games full content, play the game a few days get to the areas farther in the game get to the more difficult dungeons and then complain if crap is still to easy.

Keithark

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

Be Aggressive B E Aggressive [AGRO]

E/Me

Agree with most of your post Engel, except the DoA part. The main problem with DoA is that it is almost impossible to do with a balance party and is very boring with the accepted build (couple of monks, a necro, and the rest SF ellysand one tank) I would like to se it where you could do it with a tank, couple of monks, a elly, necro, mesmer, ranger, and a rit but as it is now that is not a likely party to get anywhere. I llike really liked GW:EN though and just hope it gets a bit more difficult as you get out of the snow. I do not want another DoA and i do not want it to be like HM either. They already have HM for that. I am already thinking about how hard it will be to take on 13 ice emps all level 35 at one time when HM comes out....ugh!!

trobinson97

trobinson97

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

Guildless :(

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen
GWEN as most of us were lead to believe was supposed to be high end content. In the preview we saw mid level content with overpowered skills. How is this high end? Most of us already finished the Norm story path which should be a quarter of the game tops and got all the PvE only skills in one day. So about 5 days assuming there is a longer ending and the bulk should be one. Add a day or two of most players finish the bulk of the expansion and now are left with just grind for bonuses in GW2 if they wish to play that game.
First off, who's most of us? How do you know who's finished what, besides the relatively few of the GW population that has posted on Guru? Or, is it that you are talking about most of your guild/friends? In any case, just because something is easy to you, doesn't mean it's the same for everyone. Don't like the skills, don't use em' period.

Quote: Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen The stuff we played was not even on par with late mid end content from Factions or Prop. Let alone true high end like DoA, or later FoW or UW. If you assume DoA is too hard for the normal player, then high end content is not for you. Improve your playing and you will be able to do it. Do not ask for a instant kill button though as some seem to want and which we practically already have. You're just too good, great even. You shouldn't try to force everyone to improving their skill level to the greatness that is yours. Why are you so worried about what other people use? Why are you so adamant that people can't want powerful skills? Also, you comment about what we played in the preview event is just an opinion. Except for a couple of places/quests, I found the level the same, if not as roided out as say the Realm of Torment. I figure it will get that way as I further progress the story though. Oh yeah, if you don't like the "instant kill" button, don't use it.

Quote: Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen As for balance for new players, this game is not for new players. You cannot create a new character in it, and IMO, it should be restricted to player who already beaten a game, not got run to the Droks and power leveled. The reason you see so many people paying for runs and runs through missions, is because they do not want to play, and would instead have their characters run through everything till they get to what they need to solo farm. Where did Anet say this was not for new players? I could have sworn it was made for level 20 characters, but why can't a new player play GW and then want to play EotN when they hit level 20? Only takes a day or so in Factions and Nightfall after all. Why shouldn't they be able to play, just like you? I'm glad that Anet doesn't make it's decisions based on your opinions.

Quote: Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen As for people being stuck completely, what did people expect when heroes are more powerful than players, and henchmen can even replace most PuGs? If someone is stuck, that is the nature of this game now. They have to get better to move on because unless they get a guild no one will help them except other people without in game friends or people as equally bad. Yeah because that's just great for business. Again, kudos to Anet for not having you in charge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen
But for the majority of players we are all high level, been through elite areas, have various builds that work well in most areas, ideal armor sets and weapons so the high end game we get is just too easy. Most dungeons can be done with a bring whatever mindset and beaten the first time. I have yet to have even half the party wipe in the dungeons, let alone the easy outside that I was already solo farming a bit near the end of the expansion. You've told us how great you are at this game before, no need to keep repeating. We believe you. Engel the Fallen is damn good at Guild Wars. So good, not even half his party wipes in dungeons and he can solo farm. You're amazing, we get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen
Oh well I guess this is what the community wanted then. A brainless grind game that will give them plenty of time to build up their hall of monuments for free stuff come the second game. Just sad this game is easier than the three starter games and no doubt as more PvE skills and heroes become unlocked it will only get easier. Aww QQ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Engel the Fallen
The only things that should give any player even slight pause is the solo stuff, because then they cannot bring overpowered heroes, and have to think of a bar to take on stuff alone. Was fun watching everyone cry because they could not beat griffin or the fighting arena and wanting both to be made even easier. Because you're so good right? It's funny to me to see someone who's so good sit back and be amused by other people's misfortunes, instead of trying to help them. Whatever floats your boat though Engel the Grea...er Fallen.

One more time man, if the game is too easy, you DO have options you know. You could choose to not use those instant kill button skills you talk about. You could try playing the WHOLE game and not just the preview. Along the lines of playing the whole game you can even beat and then (here's a thought) play it in HARD MODE. Or, you could make the sensible choice and walk away from the game that is obviously not worthy of your great skill level. All are worthy choices and I'd support you. Asking that the game be made tougher for everyone, for your perverse enjoyment(because as you said, watching other people struggle is fun for you), just isn't a good suggestion.


The only thing that needs to be nerfed is this topic.

TabascoSauce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Virginia, US

TFgt

W/Me

Engel, have you played in EotN hard mode yet? They made that setting just for you - so that players who desired a higher level of challenge could get it. WarKaster has it nailed - you need to wait and sample the game, not base your entire opinion off of a preview weekend. Looking at past history, if you had made the same judgement about Factions or Nightfall, they only allowed access to the starter areas and the game got measurably more difficult later on, and you would look foolish. So relax, have a glass of milk, and see. If nothing else, Hard Mode should satisfy you when it is implemented.

And for goodness sake, don't be an "entitlement monkey". There are a whole lot of players in this forum who really misunderstand the nature of computer gaming, and substitute it into their lives as an achievement engine to feel pride in themselves. Well, of course if everyone can get the uber armors and weapons, then they are suddenly not so special, so they actively campaign to make the game more difficult, so that they can spend 2,671 hours farming that unique item or armor? It is not real, it is CAD data that has zero production cost beyond the initial design and skinning. It is not solving any of the worlds serious actual problems like hunger or cancer. Heck, everyone can have 14 FoW armor sets and tormented everything and the milk will still be in your fridge tomorrow morning.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Inra

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2007

It's kinda sad to see that with GWEN going on air we may also expect arguing between average PvE players and elite ones (it seems that people are generally born to whine ). I really don't understand it. If you find game to easy with PvE skills then do not use them, too easy with 4 SF eles - nobody forces you to use them. And finally, as many members said: wait with your opinion util you will finish GWEN both in normal and hard mode. At this moment all this talk is kinda like judging that movie is crap just by watching its trailer.

SpeedyKQ

SpeedyKQ

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

E/Me

Its a little early to be talking about nerfing anything specific yet. But couldn't it at least be theoretically possible for a skill to be so good that it makes the game less fun?

If one skill were so broken that every character was using it, to the point that the other title tracks didn't matter, and profession didn't matter, and there was no challenge anywhere, shouldn't that skill be nerfed?

I think Anet should be VERY slow to nerf anything. I don't agree with any of the OP's examples, and nobody likes to see their character get weaker. But there needs to be some balance - Guild Wars is a better game if there are advantages to all four title lines, and the skills from the 10 professions mean something.

No nerfing ever, just because its PVE, is a little extreme.

AlienFromBeyond

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Dec 2005

Heros of Titans Realm [HotR]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aleta
This is the second time I have just sat here amazed at your uh hmmm
comments. Either you are just being an odd duck or you do not even understand the word *exploit" either way - and if it's sarcasm or whatever
well - Okay, seriously people, stop playing dumb. If you can't tell that's he messing with you, you need your head checked. But hey, continue feeding the ridiculous, over the top troll, what do I care? I can just laugh at all of you taking him seriously.

Thomas.knbk

Thomas.knbk

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jul 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by TabascoSauce
There are only two explanations for your behavior. 3. He plays to win. Because that's still possible. Even in PvE.

"Finish Him!" is a skill that makes killing stuff, which tends to be the best way to achieve your goal in this game, a helluva lot easier, that any class can use, and that any class can afford. It's basically a ranged eviscerate that always crits and causes cracked armor on top of that. Oh, did I mention it's non-elite?

Darkside

Darkside

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Chantry of Secrets

[Angl]

D/

I hear the monsters in GWEN are upset about the power of certain PVE skills that are owning them. So yah someone better nerf em before the monsters attack!

Kalendraf

Kalendraf

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2007

Cedar Rapids, IA

Charter Vanguard

W/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~
As for the 3 + SF ele parties, I look at that a crutch, and won't do that. But, to each his/her own. I don't know for sure, but I'm thinking that they can be very effective against destroyers with a little Ranger spirit called "Winter." Sorry, but that won't help. Searing Flames is a dead skill vs. Destroyers because they are Immune to Burning. It doesn't matter if you have a Winter spirit in effect to change fire damage into cold damage, when the fire damage won't even occur.

From what I saw using my own ele during the preview, SF might only be useful for a few explore areas, but once you get far enough into the story and start facing destroyers on a regular basis, SF is worthless. With winter, other skills in the fire line might still be viable, but leave SF behind...

Inra

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2007

Well in 80% of games there is so called 'God mode'. PvE skills are kinda like such god mode. But once again it is your choice to play god mode or not (if you play god mode do not complain that game is too easy/boring).

TabascoSauce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Virginia, US

TFgt

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas.knbk
3. He plays to win. Because that's still possible. Even in PvE.

"Finish Him!" is a skill that makes killing stuff, which tends to be the best way to achieve your goal in this game, a helluva lot easier, that any class can use, and that any class can afford. It's basically a ranged eviscerate that always crits and causes cracked armor on top of that. Oh, did I mention it's non-elite? Well, looking back in the thread he was essentially making an inferred statement that the game was too easy, entirely due to "finish him", which seems to be what you are saying as well.

It's really easy calculus to me. If you have a problem with Finish Him, then you have the option of not using it. The difficulty level of the game, if you are very good at it, is entirely in your purview to decide. If you min/max optimize, as any good pen and paper RPG'er is familiar with, then you can maximize your power. That makes the game easier by definition. Alternately, you can play without certain skills, armor, etc, making the game harder.

If you desire the game to be harder merely for your sake, then there is no reason for me to agree to that. You can affect your own game experience, but leave mine to me. I support you playing your way, but you dictating to me how I play is just not cool.

If you simply want to encourage skill diversity, then why bother with my skills? We are not in competition ala PvP. It should be irrelevant to you what I am doing.

I see no real genuine "good-guy in everybody's best interest" reason for you to advocate nerfing PvE skills that were announced 4 months ago in computer games publications as being powerful.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Navaros

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by TabascoSauce
Engel, have you played in EotN hard mode yet? They made that setting just for you - so that players who desired a higher level of challenge could get it. It seems like EOTN won't be having any HM. The HM button is gone in all EOTN areas.

I believe Engel is wrong when he says EOTN is easier than the other games. Every single area in the other GW games is very easy to beat with Heroes if someone knows how to play well. EOTN falls into the same boat as this, not an easier boat than this. The other games could also be beat in a few days, no doubt EOTN can be too. Again, this is not something "new" to EOTN as Engel's posts seem to imply.

EOTN is harder than the other games. Monsters are level 28 or level 29 in non-elite areas of EOTN, and use much better skill bars than 99% of the monsters in the previous games. And they seem to have better AI with how they attack you, too.

DOA is a flop. Hardly anyone players in there. Why would they make another whole game like that? Seems like Engel was expecting EOTN to use DOA's level of "difficulty". If that's what one wants, then no, EOTN does not have that. But I'm sure most players don't want that. Especially since the "hardest" part about DOA is trying to get into a party if you are using an unwelcome class or non-cookie-cutter build (for those who don't know, it's impossible to get a party in that case).

Aleta

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

California

TTP

R/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlienFromBeyond
Okay, seriously people, stop playing dumb. If you can't tell that's he messing with you, you need your head checked. But hey, continue feeding the ridiculous, over the top troll, what do I care? I can just laugh at all of you taking him seriously. Ya I know He's a troll and the original post is just an attempt to cause mischief as far as I am concerned. Of course I am not the perfect, elite player either.

I guess it's my own fault for being bored at work the last few days.

I really do know better then to feed the trolls lol

TabascoSauce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

Virginia, US

TFgt

W/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Navaros
It seems like EOTN won't be having any HM. The HM button is gone in all EOTN areas. You may be right - I don't know for certain. I think that it was not relevant for the preview, so it may be implemented at launch. Or not - I hadn't thought of that.

Doesn't matter. I do not use hard mode anyway. It does not affect me either way. I'd think that it wouldnt be relevant for the preview event, and may be implemented in the final release.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Hollow Gein

Hollow Gein

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

Menos Espadas

N/

^ LOL...you do realize that this weekend was a PREVIEW WEEKEND Besides you probably have to finish EoTN before it will allow you into HM for those areas.

As Tabasco pointed out , YOU decide how easy or hard you want it to be. That's the beauty of this game. Think a skill/hench/hero is overpowered, don't use them. If you're telling me that's a hard concept to follow, then you might just want to quite now. Let's face it, this isn't PvP. The AI monsters don't whine and complain that they got pwned because of cheap build or 'OMG Haxxors' skill.