Petition: Fix hero AI!

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Heores AI is worst then ever

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Stupid zhed

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I hate it when you flag your heros and they ignore it...

To answer your question, yes, I always have auto targeting turned off. It doesn't alter anything with the heroes.

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I can't stand the fact that they run sometimes across the map to 'gather' some mobs while waiting for energy to regen..

Pulling? Sure Zhed will run in to cast flare and run back.. gg Zhed!

And when you are dead.. the Elementalists will res eachother first.. then the monks and then you.. Why in heavens name?

Talkhora and Goren like running off together in the opposite direction for no reason..

The list goes on and on..

Last night I was in Slaver's Exile, right before ForgeWight, and had Ogden flagged in the SW corner by the large fire pit, which sets you on fire any time u step on it. While my team was debating on what to do, Ogden decides the best strategy is to continually run into the embers, set himself on fire, and run back to his corner. Rinse and repeat as we all watch and laugh. Forgewight is large and scary, yes, but do the heroes really need to commit suicide? Anet?

/signed

LEROOOOOOOOOOOOYYYY ZHEDKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINSSSSS!!

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Zhed is killing my party after his unexpected tank to the destroyers (I made him set to defense)

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I've had many of the problems mentioned in this thread, mostly with caster heroes set to guard but disregarding flags and deciding to leeroy into a mob 1.5 aggro bubbles away, and similar overaggro problems. They have never been great at those things, and although they do seem worse now than before, I figured it was just one of those things and we had to live with it.

But since last night they have started something new: they refuse to follow me. They just stand there. Doing nothing. They aren't flagged, and I am jogging along to the next encounter, but they just stand there. I discovered it last night in Slavers Exile when I gave the signal to attack Rand Stormweaver, and noticed a little too late that only Jora and MoW decided to follow me (ele) into the fray. Livia and four hench decided to stay at the bottom of the hill. After a quick wipe and res, I watched them and they did the exact same thing a number of times.

A similar thing just happend now. I was jogging through Lake of Drakkar with a different character, and NONE of the party followed me. We are not on the frozen lake itself, so the ice is not the issue. I decided to keep going to see if they would ever decide to follow, and it took until they were well outside my aggro bubble (~2x) before they decided to start moving in my direction.

I can deal with over aggro, but not following and not attacking? The whole AI needs serious attention.

I haven't had that issue -- they always follow -- but I've been hearing people complain about it in outposts.

Not funny, Anet. Please fix this. We know the AI can be improved because the enemies don't pull this stupid ****. They stay with their groups and run out of AoE dangers while Koss pulls raptors from the other side of the map and Mhenlo squats in an area that's getting Maelstrom'D to hell.

I've had all sorts of trouble lately with leroying heroes and sleeping heroes. I'm starting to think that Anet dumbed them down on purpose so everyone will stop asking for full hero parties.

Friend had his hero's rez locked out so he wouldn't use it (Ogden kept charging in to try to rez despite being flagged far far away...we were trying to recover from a near-wipe)...lo and behold, he continued running in to try to rez (and die). Even after the skill was "disabled". He got rezzed, and first thing he'd do would be to try to rez an ally instead of healing himself or -obeying the flag-. Yeah, okay, when user input doesn't do what it should, then there's a problem, definatly noticed that when a couple friends and I went out to cap Avatar of Balthazar for my Dervish. Let's just say the heros didn't help. Suicidal Melonni...ugh. And yes she was set to "Guard", and flagged some distance away from the fort. Friend goes in to try to pull some mobs out, and off she goes. Reflagging didn't work until she had the boss aggroed as well, then she ran back to us and stood there while the boss played with our backline.

/signed
for some reason my dunkoro with 16 healing can only cast healing breeze for +3 health regen!!! wtf is going on????

Folks: Nothing changed in the hero AI. The new dungeons present new challenges that the hero AI has not been proigrammed to deal with correctly.

Here are a few examples:
*In the Elusive Golemancer quest, the first part of the second level, where you get attacked by the Golems if you pick up the key and they stop if you drop it. This part is very hard to do solo with henchies because if you tell them to move while getting hit, they don't seem to listen to you.
*In the same level, in the corridor of death where you have to walk with the protection golem past the fire traps or get nailed. Same thing, heroes do not seem to follow your flagging and calling correctly.

Now, here is what's happening:
*Heroes are programmed to heal any critically wounded party member. The priority of this is increased above obeying your movement commands IF they are close enough. i.e. If you are running (not standing still) and Mhenlo is half an aggro bubble behind you, and someone is critically injured, Mhenlo will stop to heal that person. Even though you are still walking. This is generally a good thing. If you're running from some bad guys and they land a fireball on your party, you want your monks to slap a few quick heals and not just keep walking like zombies.
*However, the new dungeons in GW:EN present the heroes/henchies with new challenges they don't comprehend. For example, Mhenlo doesn't understand that if he lags too far behind the protection golem's ward he's going to get toasted. He stops to heal someone, he drifts out of the ward, the fire traps start nailing him, you flag him forward, but as soon as he gets to what he considers "close enough" he stops to heal himself, only succeeding in getting clobbered more and never actually making it back into the ward. Then Zhed tries to res him and gets machine gunned to death by the trap just as he brings up Mhenlo who keeps trying to heal himself and the cycle continues.

I am not really sure what the solution is. Frankly, I think that part of the quest could use a little toning down. Fewer golems in that room with the key and fewer fire traps in the corridor. I know there are ways to get around hero stupidity (for example, body block the protection Golem so he stops until you mhenlo can heal all he wants) but overall, I think the encounter just has a big "WIPE" written all over it. This problem also exists in any dungeon with a large number of fire or ice traps. The traps near the key in the snowman lair is one other spot where a ridiculously easy dungeon can all of a sudden present a challenge simply because Mhenlo won't keep walking.

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Whether or not there has been a change, heroes ignoring the flags I place for them is a big problem for me. Holding a leash does you no good unless you put it on the dog.

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as soon as theres 1 bone horror attacking the target, all my henchies/heros just stand around the enemy picking in their noses. when i lock target, or call target, it doesnt help! they wait till the poor bone horror dies to attack the thing.

and this is regular PVE, not dungeons, or anything like this. simple prophecies misions.

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Now, despite some claims here that it's us that are stupid -_- I do believe the heroes/henchies are failing to cope properly with the new environment of GWEN.

I have played all three previous campaigns with h/h alone, so believe me...I know how to control them. I flag them, together and seperatly when needed. I blank out certain spells I don't want them to spam, or know need a critical time of execution ( I keep their skill bars up at all times so I can cast the blanked spells for them). Yes, I know how to use henchies/heroes...so do not attempt to call me stupid for noticing a change, no matter how subtle at times.

I noticed right away that Jora just did not like the Watch Yourself skill, and Vekk...don't get me started on him, he was a maniac. Running in constantly with no need. I booted him and brought Zhed back but even he seems a little out of whack. My warrior (when I rarely bring one) does not attack if I'm using a longbow, or casting from far back. He'll stand by me and start yawning. This needs fixed, especially when I'm pinging the enemy over and over to get his attention. Yes, I could flag him into the fight, but I'm too busy casting the heroes spells, and trying to do my job too :/

The AI seems bugged, end of. I've heard complaints from very, very experienced (and non-stupid) players. The game is still playable, and the quests still beatable, but it's taking more effort to get the h/hs to do what you need.

It gets frustrating at times, and you have to learn ways to counter their stupidity. Like the GOLEM thing and the ring of fire ward. I had to blank out every one of my hero monks spells in order to keep him with me and not stopping to heal minions (which they seriously need to stop h/hs doing unless it's the MM) That of course meant playing my role and theirs when it came to fighting

They're needing more weilding than is fair in an expension that presents its own set of difficulties (namely that yes, it's deliciously that bit harder ).

Come on Anet, play fair and give us our old Heroes back

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yesterday it was hilarious i had 2 super tanks in Lina and Menhlo, most of the time they totally ignored the flag. Something must be broke with the ai, if you want to bring us hard mode please to do it the proper way

*Signed*
They don't fight unless I'm holding completely still, if I turn at all they run back to me and get into formation. Also they don't attack the target that I attack+ping, its so pathetic.

Bollocks. This isn't a GWEN-only issue. Tonight I was trying to do Ice Caves of Sorrow (Prophesies) and all was going fine. There's a pathing issue in there where heroes will get jammed up next to a ramp towards the end of the first part, but I got around that with a few seconds' flag-twiddling.

The real fun started when, in the beginning of the last part of the mission that I like to call "Run like hell from the Mursaat" that Olias and Koss decided that since heroes are infused, they should TURN THE RED ENGINE AROUND, run PAST the persuing mursaat, and aggro the SWARM in front of the bonus!

I use heroes so I don't have to PUG, FFS.

/signed

This is not a new problem, they've been like that since day one. People have complained about that one since day one, Anet have ignored it since day one. And it's still as annoying as it have always been.

Now, what I want from the hero AI.

If set to agressive:
They attack any red dot that enters their aggro circle.
They stick to that target until it is down, they C-space to attack the nearest target. Not spend most of the fight running from one end of the battle to the other, pulling melee mobs straight into the backline and the soft squishy casters. Because their target priority have spotted something over there! - Your bogstandard, not too intelligent, drawing genitalia on the radar Wammo can manage C-space. Koss should be able to do so too.
As long as their target is still standing, they only switch target if a target has been called, or they have been manually locked to a target.
They only break off the fight when they have run out of red dots within their aggro circle, have been flagged away from the fight, or their aggresive/guard/avoid combat status have changed.

If set to guard:
Their primary target is the one that is called.
Their secondary target - if no target have been called is to attack the target their lord and master (ie. the player) attacks.
If there is no called target and their lord and master is not attacking any target, their current target priority AI kicks in. I know they have one, the way they keep running all over the place.
If their lord and master breaks off and leaves their aggro bubble (ie. oh shit! run for the hills!) they break off from the fight and follow without being flagged. Player movement within their aggro bubble does NOT trigger a break off and reform.

If set to avoid combat:
Well... that one don't really need changing.

Henchies should be set to guard by default.

I think we can all acknowledge that the AI for Heroes has dropped dramatically since the release date of GWEN, across all campaigns. I propose Anet has done this on purpose, and here's why. Many of us sick of PUGs have learned and made great builds for our Heroes, and used them almost exclusively with henchies to accomplish everything we do. I mean, we can assure that our heroes have leet weapons, runes, and tweaked skill sets, which can also do things most human players cannot (MM bombing, interrupting bosses in HM, etc.) Anet may not like this trend, and may be trying to foster a less H/H world that GW has become, by making us realize that *some* humans may now be better than heroes. I also say this because we know GW2 only has one companion at a time, so we know we'll have to play with other *real* people much more often there.

Anet, I suggest that if this is the case, don't claim ignorance, cause as a software engineer, I know something's gone haywire with this AI. If this is accidental, however, please FIX it so I can do Slaver's Exile in less that 6 hours!

/signed

yes fix it please, they are sucking really bad atm (more the before). I could easily vanquish in Hard Mode with a team of hero/hench before GWEN. Doing dungeons in EOtN is doable, but arguably harder because of their sucky AI

Umm, for those of you saying "nothing has changed, it's the monster AI thats new". I dont get how you get that. How does new monster AI make Mhenlo & Zhed tank? That makes zero sense to me, there is definetly a problem here that Anet needs to address.

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I cant stand that my war heroes hit an enemy 3 times, then run away and stand idle for about 5 sec and then return to finish of the sucker. Every creature in Guild Wars has better AI than the heroes now...

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Not sure what's causing the problem, but here's hoping it gets fixed soon. This business of heroes openly disobeying flags is becoming a real problem.

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Devona has gone mentally crazy lately!

Hopefully Anet doesn't go into politician mode, deny everything, and leave the game broken.

/Sign

In hero battles I make Xandra use WoR--She stands there as I get slayed by an assassin 3 feet from her!

Zhed and Vekk love to go off on a spirit hunt in Slaver's Exile, it is rediculous!

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Last night I kid you not I was doing the Sveltarm dungeon in Slaver's Exile, when we (me and my H/H's) accidentally aggroed a bit too much, so flagged them back about 100 feet, only to have Talon, Mhenlo, and Herta run in the exact OPPOSITE direction, into and PAST the mob. Not even the lvl 5 bull in presearing is that stupid. All I could do was laugh at the ridiculous of the situation. Thank god I was still able to finish it...

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I know! They refuse to follow if there's a spirit around.

Guys, it's only an enemy's Favorable Winds. GET OVER IT!

/Signed

Try letting us decide how we want to play and not forcing us to Pug, because the heros have all gone stupid. And for crying out loud let us give the heros the new skills and the lightbringer ones. I think the best way for me to play is with one other player and heros.

And the new targeting system is bugged a bit. Sometimes if I was healing a ally even though I have retargeted a foe, for some reason I run up to and touch my last ally.

Here's a screenie I took last night. I was doing the Gwen green flute quest (I forget the name). You can see I have Gwen set on "Guard," but she still ran off and attacked a group of Charr by herself. Is the AI bugged? Uh, yeah.




Yes, I have her set up as a Fast Casting nuker. No comments about the build please. That's not the subject of the thread.

EDIT-> Reduced size of SS as requested.

Does anyone know if Anet has responded to this issue? If they want to save money buy using Fan site forums as the conduit for their customer feedback, the least they can do is reply. Especially when the issue is as significant as this.

Some new issues I've been seeing of late.

Refusing to move period. I was doing the centaur boss in Slavers Exile and I had the entire team flagged just out of range so that we could prepare ourselves, suddenly Zhed runs off up the hill attacks the boss, I flag him back, and he refuses to move even after repeated flagging untill he's casted his meteor shower and gotten us agro'd.

Npc's NOT running when you want them too, or stopping to heal when you don't want them too. This is REALLY annoying. Doing Duncan I was manually moving my hero's to avoid the rifts...yet they repeatedly refused to move, I have 3 hero's move imediatly, 3 take a few seconds and BARLEY get out of range and other 2 cast spells untill just beore it goes off and get two steps and are nailed. This happens repeatedly. They refuse to move at all.

Running up point blank to cast spells even if flagged back.

Warriors doing the can't touch this dance where they refuse to attack a enemy and just run up to it and then flee and then run up to it, then flee repeatedly. I kept having Koss do this in FOW, he be set to attack and he just spend the entire fight runnign around like a idiot.

Not a hero problem but a really REALLY old Henchmen one, henchmen flatly refusing to obey called targets, this is one that *****es me off, I'm so sick of getting a enemy to 10% health and having it heal because my henchmen are all attacking random different targets. I almost break my left mouse button demanding they attack it and they just ignore.

Pathfinding, it's never been great to begin with but I've been noticing that if there is even 1 enemy between your hero's and you they get stuck and can't follow you.

These are just some of the issues I remember.

Yeah I've been noticing that hero's are reluctant to break from enemies any more, really noticable in Glint's Challenge where I'm running between the two enterances, I can't count how many times when I run to the other side because it's getting filled up and I die almost imediatly and I look at my hero's and they are all busy attacking the enemies on the other side, not one even tried to follow.

I don't think the AI is broken.
It seems more like the x,y,z axis distance calculations aren't correct at some places.
Mainly at places with a lot of hight difference (z)
So to avoid the mess that can happen, I flag my crew behind me, before I start making long pulls.

I've submitted my screen and info to support, as I hope others have. So far, nothing from Anet.

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A.Net, please print this post, and affix it to every flat surface in the A.I. guys cubicle; then hire an A.I. guy...

(/signed, by the way)

Flagging doesn't help for a few reasons I find, I still use it but it's really unconsistent.

1. When pulling they STILL run half way towards you meaning that often times they attack the enemy way before you want them too. Nothing worse then pulling a group and turning to see Zhed and the others right behind you.

2. When pulling and if you disable the flag as you approach so you can be haled they will run up to you and even past you before healing many times.

3. Flagging to keep them in wards lasts about as long as the first enemy to get near them, all too often I flag and within seconds my mages are running every wich way ignoring the flags.

4. Flagging back hero's so that your archers can work on a boss *duncan* fails because as soon as combat starts they run in unless they are flagged too far back to be useful.

4 really ticks me off. I was trying duncan by having a archer hit him with spells, then guy with plague/SV cast it on him, and my henchmen flagged just behind the archer to heal the SV/Plague, surprise surprise as soon as the first attack went at the SV they all run in and attack, if I want them to do anything I have to flag them back so far they need to run up to cast proteective spirit.

It's just a nasty cycle I've found that even with avoid combat they can do dumb things, and you can't set the combat aggresivness for henchmen so forget having them hang back to heal they just run in and attack.