Hero armor VS Player armor

Hyper Cutter

Hyper Cutter

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Knights of the White Eye [HINA]

Quote:
Originally Posted by A11Eur0
Reskins of what? You makie no sense. Go take a close look, and you'll find that a good bit of 15k armor (it varies depending on profession) from Prophecies differs little from the 1.5k version (I think they even reskinned collector armor once or twice)...

kazjun

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

HoVa

W/N

Jora's deldrimor > all warrior armour.

Actually, all of Jora's armours > GWEN warrior armour.

thetechx

thetechx

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

the mooninites

E/Mo

yea when i saw some of those hero armors, my heart skipped a beat and i gaspped for air. those armors look freaking awesome has hell. but then again, i always thought that some of the henchman armor would be good too.
and i was very dissapointed when i saw the paragon monument armor cause i spent so much time getting my male paragon vabbian armor, and they re-skin it (except for the leggings), make it cheaper, and look better.

SotiCoto

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

What slightly bugs me about A-Net's laziness as regards the new armour... is that they couldn't even be bothered to play mix'n'match with the old mesh pieces.

For instance... Asuran Necromancer armour is a 100% clone of Luxon 15k. They COULD have used the Cuirass mesh from 15k Luxon, the Greaves / Skirt from 15k Canthan... and gauntlets / boots from some other 15k set.... and still retextured them to look right... [excuse my using the armour terms used in Morrowind, but the names are too variable in GW]...

... but they didn't.

And that is what I'm annoyed about.

Given that I tend to mix-and-match my armour anyway to find good combinations (my monk has 15k Kurzick Cuirass + Greaves but 15k Luxon Bracers and Sandals, and a 1.5k Canthan head-pattern beneath her hair).... the very notion that they couldn't try that with the meshes alone and make perfectly matching skins just demonstrates what a complete botch-job they've made of the "new" armours...

noocoo

noocoo

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter
Go take a close look, and you'll find that a good bit of 15k armor (it varies depending on profession) from Prophecies differs little from the 1.5k version (I think they even reskinned collector armor once or twice)...
........What?

15k elite armor sets are the advanced 1.5 ones. For sure, they would have the same model, and the 15k ones have more detail and better quality. It is much different with those EotN elite armor sets which are reskin from other elite ones.

freekedoutfish

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by allience
i was browsing though gw wiki today to see the hero armors. i was amazed by the new art and details put to it. i feel frustrated that players get 3 reskined sets and heroes get new designs.
I thought exactly the same thing. Most of the hero armors are what I would consider original in design and should have been used on us intead.

Nevin

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

If the whole Hero NPC's have more graphical potential then characters theory is true... Then why can tex modders steal hero armor and use it on their characters?

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevin
If the whole Hero NPC's have more graphical potential then characters theory is true... Then why can tex modders steal hero armor and use it on their characters? Um.....show me?

Texmod cannot "steal armors".

It can steal textures, yes. But armor meshes cannot be modified.

Even beyond that, texmod lets you display textures beyond the game's intended resolutions, since its not involved with the game at all. As far as the game is concerned, its rendering what its supposed to.

maraxusofk

maraxusofk

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

San Francisco, UC Berkeley

International District [id多], In Soviet Russia Altar Caps You [CCCP], LOL at [eF]

W/

Am i one of the few who enjoy the war monumental armor? it looks super leet.

the thing though is that the hero armors ARE better. i went abd bought all my heroes armor just to see them. its funny how much bettter the hero armor are compared to the player armor in both nf and eotn. i think elite talhkora, jin, and elite sousuke armor come to mind first, alhtough most of the other hero armor are just existing armors.

i mean, kahmu (dervish) and his armor is so insanely detailed. livia's dress is to die for. even vekk has a nice little crown. i wish we get soemthing similar to those. they dont have to be the exact same to keep heroes unique, but at least toss soemthing that looks similar.

A11Eur0

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter
Go take a close look, and you'll find that a good bit of 15k armor (it varies depending on profession) from Prophecies differs little from the 1.5k version (I think they even reskinned collector armor once or twice)... Ok, so the elite armor is a reskin of the original armor. In some cases. (Glad's and Knights for wars are different, off the top of my head. Druid's for rangers as well) That's understandable. What's not understandable is a brand new expansion saying NEW ARMOR using reskins of old armor, even reskins of reskins.

Lourens

Lourens

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Make player armor also available for heros

Avoc

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

Somone at GWO used texmod to take Sousuke's primeval armor on his own character:



Now, this makes me wonder... Anet said that they made the Hero armors in a completly different way than how they made the player armors and therefore it would be "impossible" to make them into player armors since they were "static" ... well, yeah, sure.

Lucien Beaumont

Lucien Beaumont

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2006

Dominus Mysteri

Me/N

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avoc
Somone at GWO used texmod to take Sousuke's primeval armor on his own character:



Now, this makes me wonder... Anet said that they made the Hero armors in a completly different way than how they made the player armors and therefore it would be "impossible" to make them into player armors since they were "static" ... well, yeah, sure. Wait, how can someone not realize that Sousuke's Primevil is reskinned Vabbian, and that it shares the same mesh?

Cebe

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucien Beaumont
Wait, how can someone not realize that Sousuke's Primevil is reskinned Vabbian, and that it shares the same mesh? His primevil may be reskinned vabbian, but it's the leetest male ele armor in the entire game. Such a shame you can't get it for human players.

SotiCoto

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avoc
Somone at GWO used texmod to take Sousuke's primeval armor on his own character: That doesn't necessarily mean that the two use exactly the same mesh. I have encountered different meshes before that are capable of using the same textures.

As it happens though, I have checked against Guildwiki.... and sure enough the texture-mapping is identical between Sousuke's final armour and the Vabbian. If they're not the same mesh then at least they're variants on the same one with only minor tweaking.


For the record though.... when that person used Sousuke's texture on their armour..... what happened when they tried to dye it? Did they say?

..L..

..L..

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2007

I was so free to take some time and put some of these images I found along threads or just from wiki and put them in here.

Lame ele reskin FTL

= NEW ARMOR!
Krytan armor


+

Obsidian Armor


=

Kick obsidian ranger in the face FTL it was undesirable now its even more undesirable

= NEW ARMOR!
Dracescale


+

Shing Jea reskin

= NEW ARMOR!
The ultimate Mix and Fail

= NEW ARMOR!

Existing monk armor


+

Red/purple dye!

= NEW ARMOR!

1.5k kurzick + hideous reskin

= NEW ARMOR

Another warrior mix and failure!

= NEW ARMOR!

Oh my god my eyes of the north!


Xandra the ritualist hero sends her regards

Entire GW en Playerbase just got OWNED by heroes

Nevin

Nevin

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2005

Haha nice post

noocoo

noocoo

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by ..L..
I was so free to take some time and put some of these images I found along threads or just from wiki and put them in here. Nice find! LOL

and, OMFG!
Xandra's Deldrimor Armor is incredible nice!!!!!11111

Lady Erighan

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2005

Defenders of Gods

E/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by ..L..
Xandra the ritualist hero sends her regards

Entire GW en Playerbase just got OWNED by heroes I just felt the need to bump this picture...

Enough is enough...many of us have lived through 3 chapters and 1.5 expansions and we still don't have armor even remotely close to this.

Zeek Aran

Zeek Aran

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Earth, sadly

BORK

A/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter
Go take a close look, and you'll find that a good bit of 15k armor (it varies depending on profession) from Prophecies differs little from the 1.5k version (I think they even reskinned collector armor once or twice)... Compare 1k Canthan + NF armor to 15k armor of the same name. DUH it's the same armor! The point of the elite armor is for better detail, or more details. You can't compare this to the GWEN armors.

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by ..L..
Kick obsidian ranger in the face FTL it was undesirable now its even more undesirable
Agreed that that is insanely weak for them to do. I don't care what you touch, just not the FoW.

Quote: Originally Posted by ..L..
1.5k kurzick + hideous reskin

= NEW ARMOR It's actually a 15k Kurzick reskin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ..L..
Xandra the ritualist hero sends her regards

Entire GW en Playerbase just got OWNED by heroes You mean Xandra pretty much says "*#%@ you."

Ownt be heroes indeed...*sigh*

iriyabran

iriyabran

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2007

[Lord]

E/

i actually managed to get over the fact that my ele (main char) won't be getting anything new in the chapter because the ele reskins are one of the worst reskins of all armors (norn looks decent but i prefer my fow over it)
but seeing heroes get SO MUCH BETTER armor than players is just mocking with us....

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by SotiCoto
That doesn't necessarily mean that the two use exactly the same mesh. I have encountered different meshes before that are capable of using the same textures.

As it happens though, I have checked against Guildwiki.... and sure enough the texture-mapping is identical between Sousuke's final armour and the Vabbian. If they're not the same mesh then at least they're variants on the same one with only minor tweaking.


For the record though.... when that person used Sousuke's texture on their armour..... what happened when they tried to dye it? Did they say? You cant dye texmodded textures. Youll have to manually tweak the texture if you want new colors.

But this isnt even stealing armor, its still only stealing a texture. This is a good example.

I could use texture from a tree and use it on my armor....

Onarik Amrak

Onarik Amrak

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2007

Astral Revenants

P/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by ..L..
The ultimate Mix and Fail

= NEW ARMOR!

1.5k kurzick + hideous reskin

= NEW ARMOR

Another warrior mix and failure!

= NEW ARMOR!

Xandra the ritualist hero sends her regards

Entire GW en Playerbase just got OWNED by heroes You just have to ask yourself... Why...

The Warrior Monument armor is the worst armor I've ever seen. Anywhere.
The Warrior Asuran is pretty close to second worst armor ever.

Do you think that Anet thought they could get away with these lousy lazy reskins? Surely someone at some point along the design process must have said, "This isn't going to go well with our players."

Why in the world would they offer such aesthetically terrible armors?
And they didn't even fulfill their promise of 40 new armor sets!
Dwarven is just a collection of pieces that don't even get recognised in your HoM.

Only the warrior actually has 4 sets because of Silver Eagle, and even that doesn't count towards your HoM.

gg Anet. we got pwnt.

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onarik Amrak
You just have to ask yourself... Why...

The Warrior Monument armor is the worst armor I've ever seen. Anywhere.
The Warrior Asuran is pretty close to second worst armor ever.
As a full set, i think the warrior monument is lousy. Individually, i think they would mix well with the reskin sets.

Wear the helmet with a 15k templar set.
The gloves with a Primeval set, etc.

I personally like the Asuran warrior, although its got an awful dye setup.

Quote:
Do you think that Anet thought they could get away with these lousy lazy reskins? Surely someone at some point along the design process must have said, "This isn't going to go well with our players."

Why in the world would they offer such aesthetically terrible armors?
And they didn't even fulfill their promise of 40 new armor sets!
Dwarven is just a collection of pieces that don't even get recognised in your HoM.

Only the warrior actually has 4 sets because of Silver Eagle, and even that doesn't count towards your HoM.

gg Anet. we got pwnt. Remember.......personal taste and preference.

Mordakai

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

Well, the answer of "why" is obvious, although I don't like it.

It's easier to create one set of armor for one model (a hero) than to create 20 new sets for every player. (profession times gender).

Still don't know what Anet was thinking, though. That we wouldn't notice?

Onarik Amrak

Onarik Amrak

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2007

Astral Revenants

P/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
As a full set, i think the warrior monument is lousy. Individually, i think they would mix well with the reskin sets.
Well that's the problem ain't it?
Warrior Monument is a set.

That's the way they designed it.
That's the way it's supposed to be worn.
That's the way it goes into your Hall of Monuments.

Sure, the helmet would be a good substitute for a 15k Templar helm..
but isn't that because they're practically the same thing?

If Anet wanted Monument to be used piecemeal among existing sets they should have put it in with the other Dwarven armors and created a set that actually has a cohesive aesthetic instead.

..L..

..L..

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2007

Another Few reskins brought to light.

Necro Mixup what a waste


I cant believe they made the same reskin twice -.-


Hydromancer + red dye = NEW ARMOR!!!


Another reskin of a armor already pretty undesirable.


Livia raises her Middlefinger to all female necros out there.

Wish you were a npc now dont ya.

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

I know that it would probably be difficult to give us the hero armor straight as it is, but can we at least get the guys creating the hero armors to switch teams with the player armor designers? Like seriously.

lyra_song

lyra_song

Hell's Protector

Join Date: Oct 2005

R/Mo

Bryant, art teams are usually divided into Props, Characters and Environments.

Anet's job titles on their page include: Artist, Level Designer, Prop Artist, Animators, Game Designer, Writers, Graphic Designers.

I doubt its a different team that did the NPCs differently than the players.

Velath

Velath

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

Canada

A/

The thing that irks me the most out of all of this is the fact that the Asuran armour is reskins, yet they're a totally alien race to humans, and they happen to create similar armour to what we've seen before? As far as lore and atmosphere goes, that annoys me more than anything else. I've got no plans of getting any complete sets and have only seen a few pieces that I want for any of my characters.

Avoc

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Again
Agreed that that is insanely weak for them to do. I don't care what you touch, just not the FoW. You got no idea how dissappointed I was when my fow-wearing ranger spent 2 days grinding for the 5th tier of the ebon guard title track, just so I could buy the armor. When I finally reached that 5th tier, I set myself on "offline" just so people wouldn't bug me.
With itchy fingers I went to my storage, picked up the necessary mats and gold and bought the armor.

First I took on the coat: OOooh, nice a coat.
Then I took on the pants: Mmh.. kinda plain, nvm.
The gloves: ... wait, why didn't they change.. oh wait. WTF? Its the same model as my FoW gloves that I spent 15ecto and 15 shards during the time when ecto was 8K a piece. Are you telling me they used the same freaking model?? And that coat.. where have I seen, oh great.

A bit nervous I equipped the boots. I felt pissed upon.

rohara

rohara

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Rt/

heroes are spoiled rotten...they make us pay for their runes, weapons, and insignias...steal our loot...AND they get all the cool armor

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
Bryant, art teams are usually divided into Props, Characters and Environments.

Anet's job titles on their page include: Artist, Level Designer, Prop Artist, Animators, Game Designer, Writers, Graphic Designers.

I doubt its a different team that did the NPCs differently than the players. So if that's the case, they knew that these armors were incredibly subpar and went through with using them anyways?

..L..

..L..

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2007

Id love to see Gaile or anyone else from Anet justify these reskins, We know hero's can have better skins because their only one layer scale whatsoever. This still doesnt excuse the fact that the armors are POORLY reskinned and require work to buy them. I know theres a common selling technique by putting something on a great golden plate but a load of crap still looks like a load of crap even on a golden plate. Reskins are fine if they arent that obviously dissapointing. To the people yelling prophecies had reskins true but prophecies had unique armors 1 normal and 1 elite version of it gwen gives us a crap version of the elite ones we already have gwen should have 2 unique armors just like prophecies and factions and some nf armors.

Foxeye

Foxeye

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/A

I keep telling myself that they plan to slowly give us new armor over the next year or so until GW2 is out, like they did when they recently gave us the new elite armor for monks and warriors.

But yeah, I hadn't looked at all the hero armor until I read this thread...did indeed almost piss myself. Such incredibly gorgeous stuff....so cruel. Especially since we can only have 3 heros around at at time.

THe whole thing...it was bait and switch. I can't see it any other way. Any dev with any sense knows what players expect when they hear "new armor". We have two campaigns of examples of what "new armor" is. Somewhere a long the way you know someone pointed out "um, we say new armor, but we're doing mostly reskins...people aren't going to like it", and someone replied "whatever, they're more likely to buy if they think there are 40 new armors. We'll just play deluded and act like we had no idea they wanted new meshes". Not saying it's a big evil conspiracy, just that I know human nature, and somewhere along the way someone decided that it was acceptable to get folks hopes up in the interest of better sales.

Very disappointing, but, eh, nothing folks haven't said already.

SotiCoto

SotiCoto

Banned

Join Date: Jan 2007

Drazach Thicket

Temple of Zhen Xianren [Sifu]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lyra_song
You cant dye texmodded textures. Youll have to manually tweak the texture if you want new colors. I'm not entirely convinced.
Obviously there is something in the original textures that allows them to be dyed.... some value or other hidden somewhere.... and it can only be a matter of finding that value and tweaking it.

I'll bet it is connected somehow to alpha-channelling or some other form of layering in the texture file.... dictating which parts can be dyed....

O'course this IS just guesswork...

Goldleader

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

Mo/Me

Shame on you for creating a post like this. Now I'm disappointed as well. I didn't need to know that they did that crappy of a job. But now that you pointed it out, I agree...very sad.

Ignorance was bliss.

Markaedw

Markaedw

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

N/

Since now Gaile has gone into one of the armor threads and said "tuff". Are you more, less or neither; inclined to invest any more money in A-Net?