An Open Letter to ANet

Dear A-Net,

First, I would like to clarify that this isn't a flame, or a rant, but rather a collection of warranted complaints and questions that need real answers. Instead of attempting to email this to you (or deliver it in some other fashion) where I assume I would get an unfriendly automated response, I am posting this here where all of the community can also share in whatever answers you may have for me. I certainly hope the discussion in the thread doesn't get too heated, but it's hard to believe that that's avoidable.

I have played Guild Wars for over two years now, and in general I have enjoyed the game for the duration of my stay. I have always followed a philosophy that states that any mistake can be made under almost any circumstances, as long as the mistake is fixed, learned from and not repeated. Unfortunately, the mistakes you make are simply repeated. Until now, I have turned a blind eye, but after three chapters and an expansion, I feel I need to get a straight answer as to what you're even doing anymore.

The original Guild Wars was almost an experiment to see if it was possible to have a successful online game that required no monthly fee. In that aspect you succeeded, to a serious degree. Was it this sales figure success that lulled you into the impression that you could just continue to experiment with your game without taking into account the player base that you were affecting? Truly, the primary problem with your game design, in my opinion, is that you have no real way of judging how happy or upset the community is; they buy the game, then it stops mattering what you do it. The money is in your pocket. You can delete all the skills in the game and your subscriptions won't go away because there aren't any; if everyone stopped playing right now, today, you could look at the sales figures and claim the whole thing was a huge success, and completely ignore the millions of enraged players who would be wondering just how badly they've been duped (no pun intended).

The entire duration of each game so far has been more about making sure everyone stays just happy enough that they'll buy the next chapter/expansion than it has been about making sure that the community is having fun and staying pumped about playing just in general. Unfortunately, this stems from your mis-estimation regarding what the community's primary focus would be at high levels of game play; it was your original plan to have PvP be the only part of the game that really mattered. Much to your surprise, I'm sure, it turned out that more sales were coming from players who wanted to go on presearing e-dates and raid FoW than from HoH/GvG style players. I'm sure you really, really wanted to focus all of the skill balancing and game play improvements on PvP, but with Chapter 2 in mind you knew that abandoning PvE as an important format would mean a catastrophic loss of revenue in the long run.

Unable to abandon one format entirely, you were left with two choices: split PvE and PvP into two entirely separate games with different rules and balancing structures for each, or keep them together in one big completely imbalancable environment in which the goal was to try and keep two entirely separate player groups interested in the same content at the same time. You chose #2. Oops.

Chapters 2 and 3 were wrong for a lot of reasons, but I won't bother going into that much. You must have realized the error, since you... you know... abandoned that format of release altogether. I would explain how it should have been done, but happily you figured it out yourself and went as far as to release it in the form of the game's first expansion: Guild Wars: Eye of the North. I was extremely excited to see that you had finally figured out how to completely separate PvE from PvP, through a combination of normal skills and PvE only ones. The normal skills that are released in this way are easy to keep balanced since you only need to really consider them in the PvP context, because PvE players will always have access to their own set of skills which are balanced separately for their own environment. You also forgot all of the shit you made up about Cantha and Elona that basically no one cared at all about in the first place and rezoned in your focus on what all the PvE players had cared about from the beginning: Charr, Dwarves, the Jungle, the original continent. And then, to top it off, you were going to add in dungeons! Lots of dungeons! A PvE'rs wet dream. Success!

... Or so I had thought. Upon the release of GW:EN, I was greeted by disappointment after disappointment rather than the challenges and content I had not only been expecting, but had been promised. According to all the advertising and information you released about the expansion, it was going to be a high end area, designed for only the better players, where the risks would be made worth it by the rewards.

You lied.

I beat the campaign portion of the game with two friends and 5 heroes eleven hours after the game's release. Here come my first questions...

1. Why don't Destroyer type creatures even have Monks? Rits? Anything that heals them?
Yeah, they hit for a lot. Yeah, you can't really block anything they do. Yeah, they're immune to Burning. Who cares? 2 Necro heroes and 2 Mesmer heroes running hexes, and you don't even take damage. They just die. You can survive an unlimited amount of them, and it's not even a challenge because they have no Condition removal, and their only Hex removal is Hex Eater Vortex and Shatter Hex. I'm supposed to believe that the ultimate hardcore badass foe in the whole world of Tyria, the ones that are going to consume EVERYTHING, don't even have heals? Not even Heal Sig?

2. Why are the rewards you can receive from the endgame Droknar's Key collectors so... bad?
Forget the stats, who cares what the stats are. Someone will like the stats. Let's instead look at the skins... every single one of the things you offer there are old skins dyed pale blue to look like stone. As Souske likes to ask: Are you kidding me? Even the Forgotten at the end of Nightfall had some cool skins (i.e. the Forgotten Blade). I mean, I might have thought the Dwarven Axe was cool if it wasn't, you know, available as an inscribable skin from a collector in the Central Transfer Chamber.

Those two questions plagued me at that point, but the hits kept coming. Immediately my two friends and I (hardly fatigued despite our 11 hours of play; we had been prepared for plenty more) decided to try out some dungeons. Picking one at near random, we carefully formed the team build (still 3 people and 5 heroes) and then set out, expecting our first real challenge of GW:EN. Devastatingly, it was instead only more disappointment that we found. That night, after a half dozen successful dungeons cleared, we all retired to bed, wondering why we had even bought the game. Though some dungeons offer clever challenges, nothing, not one, none of the dungeons are even close to the level of difficulty of The Deep, Urgoz, DoA, or even Underworld. Here are a few more questions...

3. Why do only some of the final dungeon bosses posses devastatingly overpowered monster skills?
The final boss of the Sepulchre of Dragrimmar, the Remnant of Antiquities, boasts the devastating skill Diamondshard Mist. Despite the relatively short actual dungeon, it is a satisfying challenge due to his impressive firepower, specifically his monster skill. This gave me hope that each dungeon would have such a challenge at the end, much in the way that Urgoz and Kanaxai can easily decimate an entire party even if the whole rest of the dungeon had not been much of a challenge. Sadly, I discovered that this was not the case. Many of the final bosses of dungeons are really no more capable of killing you than their underlings, i.e. Havok Soulwail, the final boss of the Darkrime Delves. Why is this?

4. Why is it completely impossible to fail a dungeon?
Your party wipes, you rez. Your party wipes at 60% DP, you rez. Your ally, who is required for your quest, dies... he rezes. I had though during the preview weekend that these were just ways of allowing everyone to get a good feel for how dungeons would work, however I was wrong, all of these things are still true. Why? Why are there rez shrines in dungeons when there is nothing of the kind in any previous game's high end area? Why do NPCs just stand back up when killed, after nearly two years of part of the challenge being keeping them alive?

The next morning, I woke up to find out that I just might have been wrong. Careful searching had revealed to the public the location of the only Elite Dungeon of the game. Two hours later, however, I was returned to my previous level of disappointment. Additional questions:

5. Why, in the hardcore expansion boasting specifically high end content, is there only one elite dungeon out of eighteen, and why is it not any harder than the other dungeons?
I called and got one of my friends out of bed to hop on and give it a try with me, and an hour and half and later we had beaten three out of the four bosses leading up to Duncan and had stopped caring, as people had reported that they had already completed the whole thing, and that there was nothing interesting out of the chest. Is this called an elite dungeon just because it's a bit longer than the others? And why is the quest marked not just Master's Level but Elite. It's not.

6. Why are Destroyer weapons so woefully easy to acquire?
Tormented weapons require either a huge amount of game play or a large amount of cash to purchase, and they were even more expensive before the price deflated to its current level. Why do Destroyer weapons cost a fraction of what Tormented weapons (or FoW armor for that matter...) do/did, when they are apparently the elite skin of GW:EN?

Saddened by all this, I formed an additional two questions in my next few days of hero/hench dungeon crawling. In this time I pushed my Deldrimor Reputation title track up far enough to be able to look at armor, but upon inspection of the tiny armor icons I decided that I would be better off looking online to see if anyone had already purchased the sets and gotten some pictures up. As the pictures dripped in, I formed this question...

7. Why are all the GW:EN armor sets just old armor sets with portions of the graphics changed?
Of all the things that I was sure of, I was most sure that there would be some cool new armor that would keep people both interested and grinding for a while to come. How could you possibly release a nearly 100% PvE expansion without a healthy dose of new armor skins? Sure you added in some cool individual things, i.e. Chaos Gloves, Blindfolds, etc., but those hardly sate that appetite that most PvE players have for armor. Having interesting armor is basically one of the primary objectives of your average GW PvE player, and I was pretty sure you knew that. Hell, the new hero armor is pretty awesome... why do they get cool new armor skins while we get old, reskinned garbage?

Finally, bits and pieces of everything I've said so far could be at least partially fixed by one thing: Hard Mode. I have reached the biggest problem that I have with this expansion.

8. Why is Hard Mode not yet in the game?

You advertised Guild Wars: Eye of the North as the place that was supposed to be hard, yet the defining characteristic of all PvE since the release of Hard Mode has been how hard a place is in HM, not normal mode. I won't say that no one cares about normal mode, but for an area that is supposed to be designed for skilled players looking for a challenge, how can you not have HM in the game?

Of all the questions I've asked, I'm sad to say that it's #8, the one that bothers me the most, that I know the answer to. Despite your smart move of abandoning the Chapter system and instead releasing an expansion, you are still a slave to the marketing system that the Guild Wars franchise binds you to. With no subscriptions, your only source of revenue is to ensure that the next game in line is bought, not that people are happy the whole time they are playing the current release.

You are with-holding Hard Mode from us because you need to have something to put out between now and Guild Wars 2 to keep people playing long enough for you to finish making the next game.

It doesn't even bother me that you're doing this, because I understand that you have no other choice due to the system that you have put in place for yourselves as far as income. I would just appreciate it if you'd come out and tell us that this is what you're doing, and give us a realistic estimate of when we can expect to have Hard Mode in GW:EN.

Now if any ANet officials actually read this and consider it objectively, you may wonder to yourself, "Why would I answer these questions? Why would I post here and openly admit our company's strategy?" The answer is actually simple: People are not going to buy Guild Wars 2 otherwise. You fail to understand that the fact that GW2 is not on the same timeline GW1 means that players of GW1 are no longer obligated to pay for it just to stay competitive.

If you do not bridge the gap between company and player that has been so long neglected by sub-par PR, I feel you will not enjoy the same success with this game's sequel as you have enjoyed so far. Please, for everyone's sake, let's put the old animosities aside and have a laugh at the charade that we've endured for so long. Help us in the Guild Wars community feel like we're on the same team as you, all hoping for a good outcome game wise, rather than how it is now, as though we are the children and you are the parents, and we have no say in anything.

Sincerely,
A loyal and concerned player,
Sha Noran

This is a high quality post that should be read.

This is an excellent post, which asks the important questions that ALL of us have been considering since Eye of the North's release. I urge everyone to read all of the post, as there is no point making posts without understanding the whole thing. Hopefully this can result in some good discussion, as it involves a lot of issues that people have been having with EOTN.

Great post! You express many of things I have been feeling about Gw for the last little while. As much as I like EOTN I have felt that it has been insanely easy for "high level content".

Anyway, well written, lets hope someone from ANET will actually respond.

Bravo. Why can we rez in dungeons? It's beyond my understanding.

I too share many of the same concerns... But I would like to add that the game that I play isn't the game that was promised to me. I was told that Guild Wars was supposed to be about the skill level of the player rather than the willingness of that player to grind to get a skill to a certain norn/asura/whatever level.

I like GW:EN a lot but I don't think it's perfect, far from it to be honest. The OP pointed out all of the bad, ugly and damn right stupid stuff in the expansion. And I for one, would like to hear the answer for questions no.2-7.

Very well written, Noran.

No subscription fees means a lack of further investment investment. It's painful considering PvP tournaments suffered, and now it's painful because of the woefully poor characteristics of the PvE. What was GW advertised as? A game with little-no grind? A game where skill > time spent? I'm pretty sure I've been disappointed throughout, ever since the initial release of Prophecies, with how ArenaNet failed to stick to that principle that they highlighted so massively when GW was in production.

In interviews, they have stated pve was develeoped 1st, and pvp 2nd. Pvp was the 1st to be really demo to the public. That being said, the vision was to have 1 game offer both equally. Factions seem to try and help bridge the pvp/pve rift (with ab battles) but Nightfall and Eotn seem to be heavly focused on PvE.

I do see the split with GW2. PvE with a more (guessing AB/AVA pvp like) and a sepearte structred pvp system (TA, HoH,etc).

1. There seem like an insect mass producing race that bent on an instinct based goal - we see as destory, they see as convert.

2. Aggree to an extent - there not as hard as an "end game" part as I was thinking. I think the reason is they do want casual players to be able to do them.

3. Actually those boses were doable for me (hero/hench). I did have gwen set up for intrupt messmer but she was only able to stop that 50% of the time.

4. I like this feature, and it's balanced out by 60dp will have a hard time.

5. Can't comment - not been there yet

6. I think the reason is there Gwen unlocks and having to grind for 11 sets x8 slots (if you own all 3 games) was a big factor on how easy to get.

7. Agree, there ok but I thought they would turn out a lot better.

8. My guess it they weren't done with the EOTN when it released. I say this as the amount sheer amount of "see through soild walls" when changing camer angles compare to previous released as example. I would like to see a detailed interview with the lead dev saying why they chose what they did.

QFT

This whole armor for faction bit seriously concerns me, as well as PvE skills for an insane amount of grind. Nightfall PvE skills I was fine with because you could get level 9 on a skill just from simple playing the game. By the time your done with Nightfall your PvE skill would be rank 9 easy. In GWEN however your reputation does not have an equal playing area's for each faction. I mean come on 3 explorable area's for Ebon Vanguard reputation points?, compared to 18 multi level dungeons for Dwarf reputation points?

It used to be if you had the money and money is no easy task for an average player you can simply buy armor. You went insane on collector items (250 destroyer cores?) for simple armor items. You had all kinds of fun possibilities with CTF style PvP games that could have had monsters to ride in, etc. Even PvP polymock or random 1v1 arenas was possible but you simply missed that opportunity.

You need to re discover your roots again that made GW such a gem in the first place. Otherwise you are doomed to fail in GW2.

Great post dude well worded and worthy of responce. I do have one question i would like to attach. The hall of Monuments is supposed to be set up so in GW2 u can either view your past achievements or possible use the armor and weapons, now question is unless you actually link GW2 to GW1 like u link factions to prophesies how are you to actually use hall of monuments in GW2?

Hard mode, wiping due to bosses, crappy enemies, reskin armor, etc, are not loot related points, and since most of them aren't about loot, calling this thread a "loot whine" is a flame. Yes, I'm looking at you, Mr. Deleted Post. Don't re-post, either.

mm. While I agree on some things to a certain extent, I disagree in many others.

First of all is the way you state your opinions as the Divine Truth, ie. "Chapter 2 and 3 were wrong for a lot of reasons". Well, I find some things to fault about Factions, but I still like it, nonetheless. And Nightfall, it is my favorite campaign, as I found the new classes, the story's pacing and many of the environments to be much more pleasing and fun than any of the preceding chapters.

As for the part concerning difficulty, you must again keep in mind not everyone thinks and plays like you. Right now, there is another thread posted by a player who's puzzled by the difficulty of GWEN, and specifically the overpowered monster attacks. Me, I personally think the difficulty is fine, keeping in mind this is normal mode, and should thus be accessible to anyone who wants to play. So if you think what's out there is not a challenge worthy of your time, go play with a 6-player party, or something.

So basically, I'd agree partially with some of your opinions expressed in the first five paragraphs or so, but I disagree with the fact that the game, being an expansion, should be very difficult from the get-go and automatically filter out the more casual players. That is just wrong, unless they somehow marketed their game with huge warnings about only the most elite players ever being able to finish the game's quests (which they didn't, and wouldn't, since it would be terribly unwise, greatly diminishing the game's sales).

I am impressed by your abilities to breeze through the game. However I think that if EoN was as hard as you hoped then a majority of players would be hopelessly frustrated and ANet would be catering the game to players of your level in the same way you suggested that ANet caters the game to PvP players rather than PvE. I am happy I can enjoy EoN, obtain PvE skills, and basicly have fun without first investing 2 years in game. becoming very good at playing the game, and finding friends that can play at the same level.

1. ) To make sure that everyone can beat them, duh. In worst case screnario, 60dped party could chip on them and they wouldnt even have to kill one inbetween of reses.

People not able to best something get whiney, this is not early 90's when people admited they suck if they couldnt finish game and still had fun with it. this is 00's when not being bale to do something on seccond try in video game is end of world and requires torching developers for showing one that hes not smart.

2. ) Yes, good questions.

Why are spears, for example, just dyed collector skins (ffs!)

3. ) See no. 1 They must make sure that when someone picks three dungeons at random, he will be able to beat at least 2 of them withou much pain.

4. ) See no. 1 and 3 Again, they much make sure that casuall player can have fun, even thou it makes gameplay retarded.

5. ) To give people who beat this "elite" ego trip. "Oh, lookie, i did beat this elite dungeon, sweet, my mending DOES rock".

On serious note, Elite areas usually were too hard and forced people to use ludicrous teambuilds or plain exploits to beat them. Easier areas allow more fun teambuilds, and are actually harder because people are not forced to find exploit to make it dead easy.

Okay, there is already exploit making Slavers boss a lot less threatening, but its not really necesary.

6. ) Experiment. tormented weapons were too hard to obtain without serious grinding or ebaying (or duping, heh), so they now made elite items easier. Besides, 100k per item is still not exactly cheap. It's not like you will have every casuall wielding them in week.

7. ) Design 40 armor sets, you have X months to do this. Devs just didnt have time to come up with proper armors.

I dont really mind, for me it means that i can be unconcerned about that reputation grind since all you really need is to get one character to r3 (to get access to perfect salvage kits).

Only Paragon norn armor is somewhat interesting, mostly because all other paragon armors sucks more.

8. ) Just give them few months.

---

I think that you need to realize that GW is not really designed to support "phat loot" collecting.

Stick to the topic, or don't post.

Because dungeons are too hard for most, adding failure would make them impossible for most.

This puts you in top 10% of PvE players. The other 90% are too busy dying on their SF eles and MMs.

You answered your own question. Tormented weapons have absurd costs for no real value.

There is exactly one elite dungeon. The rest are same as Sorrow's Furnace.

Let's not.

I, for one, only care about stats. I never understood why people chase Crystaline or whatever Skin-du-jour is.

Because it is. There are just no absurd environmental effects, or mobs that spike with 500 AoE damage or similar nonsense found in DoA. The dungeon is Elite, but balanced. Play smart, and it's easy.

So you're unhappy with the game for almost 2 years now, but feel the need to critique a chapter that recently came out?

There are other games which provide "challenging" expansions and "long term" gameplay, and "hard to obtain" items.

To the OP, did you read this?

Jeff Strain's speech


http://www.guildwars.com/events/trad...7/gcspeech.php

"...Finally, you can make everyone happy, but you can't make everyone happy all the time. It is risky to try to make decisions that appeal to all players equally. Don't fall into the trap of making decisions based on what causes the least amount of pain, because this can lead to a game that is just kind of "okay" and doesn't really excite anybody. When you have a large, active, and passionate player base, every decision you make, every change to the game, no matter how convinced you are that it makes the game strictly better, will piss someone off, and they'll post about it, blog about it, rant to the press about it, loudly and publicly predict that this is the "beginning of the end" of your game, and send hate mail to your community and support teams. MMO developers have to have thick skins, but always remember that if one of your players is angry with you, it is because he really cares about the game, and that's much healthier for you than apathy. Go with your instincts and make the right decision for your game..."

"..Pay close attention to complexity creep. Don't assume that most of your players are reading your website and consuming information about your game. Most of your players will never read your website, never visit fansites, and never participate in forum discussions. We are often immersed in the community forums and rants and raves posted to game fansites, and it is easy to lose perspective about the knowledge level of most of our players. Players who participate in fansites and send six-page emails to your community team are experts at your game – they probably know more about it than you do – so it's important to realize that they do not represent the average player. The vast majority of your players are not digging into every detail of every spell or creating lists of animations so that they can react when they see the basilisk twitch its nose. They want to play, not study, so take care to create a game that allows them to do so..."

"...Developing a new MMO requires a lot of money and a lot of time. If you are starting today and don't have at least three years and $30 million dollars, consider developing in another genre. Also be prepared to attract and manage a large development team. We have 140 full-time developers working on Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 at ArenaNet, and that number will probably have to grow throughout the Guild Wars 2 development cycle. It is much easier and less risky to make exciting, innovative games in other genres. Unfortunately, some of us just can't make that decision – we're intoxicated by the thought of building the ultimate MMO, and we feel compelled to dedicate our lives to that pursuit. If that describes you, then by all means jump in and let's keep pushing the boundaries of possibility together. But bring cash – lot's of it – and make sure that you are working with people on the business side who are willing to let you make the best game you can make, because there are no successful B-titles in the MMO industry.

I'll end by paraphrasing the famous Japanese game designer, Masaya Matsuura: Go forth, and do weird and difficult things! ..."

You are just another hardcore Roxxxxxor whiner stop admiring your navel, you are not alone & think about the hundred thousand...and many more players. You want a REAL game challenge ====> play chess at a high level....

GW isn't for hardcore PvE players, if you are really that unhappy, find another game.

great post, well thought out and well written.

I disagree with some some statements in author's post, but agree with some too.

Don't speak like you are everyone, please. As for me, i believe in ArenaNet talent and going to try Guild Wars 2 anyway. Despite of what GWEN is. Actually, i think that too little resources were thrown into GWEN development. That is why there are some shortages (like armours and too fast paced last part of plot).

And about all "hardcore" questions asked - i have one main answer, which, i'm sure, is the same as ArenaNet's could be - GWEN is dedicated to an average player. Not hardcore like you, which has all heroes equipped.

They did it for Factions and Nightfall, why the difference now? They had virtually the exact same timetable. And even so, Gaile has said that while they work on a chapter, they're already working on the next. Which means they had a year to design 40 armor sets? Give me a break, of COURSE they had time

I have to disagree with the OP. I have enjoyed each chapter as it was released and am quite enjoying GW:EN at the moment. I have completed all the quests for the main storyline, as the OP has done, but find many of the quests replayable (I think that's a made-up word) with friends and alliance members who are doing it for the first time. I have done about half the dungeons and have enjoyed doing them, even if some of them aren't so difficult that it takes years of your life. I just got new armors yesterday and didn't feel the grind was especially onerous. Maybe it's just that killing Charr over and over again never gets old.

I don't know what was "promised" to the OP, nor do I know what he/she expected (except from what he/she posted). I am sorry that he/she is continually disappointed with each product, but he/she doesn't speak for me.

P.S.: to those who are concerned with the seemingly insurmountable amount of reputation needed to purchase armors, etc.--you get reputation for certain titles by doing dungeons. For example, after doing the main storyline and all three dungeons and a few quests in the Charr Homelands, I had reached Rank 4 Ebon Vanguard. Getting to Rank 5 didn't require much of a time investment after that (especially in a Siege Devourer). My point is that you can get to these ranks by just playing the game, instead of finding a farming route and doing it over and over again.

EDIT: Removed ref to deleted post.

I know that many players who have been around for a while share the same concerns as the OP. They express the same views in-game, on this and other forums, and on IRC, though not as eloquently. I have also gone over much of the questions raised in the past.

About HM for eotn, I don't think they're holding it back intentionally; much more likely that it's not even finished yet.

Dungeon/NPC rez'ing I understand is needed to make the game more enjoyable for the casual players. Look around and you will see the amount of players struggling/failing eclipses those breezing through the game. EoTN seems to be the most challenging expansion/game yet so that's expected.

The same model/reskinned armors are disappointing though. Whether lack of effort or time only ANet knows.

I must say that EoTN had a lot of fun and interesting moments. The same can't really be said for Factions or Nightfall so it's not all bad. Hopefully the OP also found something to enjoy during the mad rush to complete the game. If not, please take the time to get the most out of future entertainment.

I’d just like to reiterate what someone else pointed out. Anet never advertised GW:EN as and elite expansion, but rather a high level one, where you can only play in it if you’re level 20. That’s all.

I’d also like to point out that if you’ve been paying attention over the last two years, as I have, you’ll notice that Anet did just what people have been asking for. People complained they didn’t want to keep NPC’s alive for the mission to succeed. In GW:EN, you don’t have to. People complained that after spending hours on a quest or mission, they’d get wiped by a single mistake and would have to start all over again. Allowing rez in these quests, addresses this complaint.

GW:EN was made with the average player in mind. And frankly, it’s still a little tough for the average player, but doable. And please don’t tell me you’re average. Anyone spending 11 straight hours on a game is hard core.

Someone quoted Jeff Strain on this thread. To paraphrase, he said that the people posting on the forums and sending letters to Anet are the hardcore, elite players. But the average player doesn’t go to the forums or even visit their web site. And the average player is the vast majority of the player base. They have to create a game with the average player in mind while trying to produce something that will challenge the hard core gamer. That’s not an easy task to undertake.

One of the problems of game development is that the casual player kneecaps high-end content. The casual players pay the bills, because there are so many more of them. If you make large portions of a game impossible for all but the most hardcore, few people will want to play it, the game fails to sell well, and Bad Things happen.

Unfortunately, catering to the casual players in order to make sure the bills get paid does mean that the game stagnates, especially in PvE environments. In PvP, the game typically evolves as fast as the players do, provided the design team leaves things the **** alone - the best players come up with overpowered strategies, which forces other to come up with even more overpowered strategies, etc. (until the designers just step in and change the game - therefore removing the need for people to actually adapt, which causes the game to stagnate). PvE is static by definition, and the difficulty is determined entirely by the design team, rather than other players. Therefore, we run into a serious design issue - if I make the game really, really hard, it will force people to get better at the game (which is good); however, only a small fraction of the playerbase will care enough to do so (which is bad); end result is that all casual players quit. On the other hand, if I make the game easy, players never have to get any better and the game stagnates; however, this is perfect for casual players, who typically don't invest the time and effort to become better anyway, and casual players are where the money is.

The take-home point is this: you can't meaningfully improve a game by catering to the casual crowd, because they always require a perpetually low bar of difficulty. Hardcore players will always find such a game easy, and will bore easily unless given something else to do (e.g., grinding, which has been amply discussed elsewhere). However, you can't cater to the hardcore players if you expect to make much money. It's a lot easier for competitive games to get around these issues, because, as stated above, the players you compete against define the difficulty, but most PvE-type games simply can't find that happy medium.

No. One of the eighteen is a minigame, another is a fifteen-minute level 15 snowman-blasting run (effectively a minigame as well), and another, Ooze Pit, is a single-level dungeon. Now, ANet advertised that there would be eighteen, 'sprawling' multi-level dungeons. They lied. Most of them are tiny. They are not comparable with Sorrow's Furnace at all.

He's not only arguing that this dungeon isn't worthy of its 'Elite' rating, but that there should be more of its difficulty level or higher. I agree with this.

OP, a good post putting across many valid complaints. I still play the game and enjoy it, and I admire ANet for their achievements with Guild Wars, but Nightfall and EotN have brought numerous disappointments for me, including those that you've discussed here.

Not everyone is as good as you, you need to remember that.

Yes I agree with some points of the OP especially the resurrection of NPC allies (when on earlier interviews it seemed like if they died, they would stay dead and you would no longer have a 'guide' or such) and the fact that there are quite a few armour reskins.

I would say I am an above average player, I used to dabble in PvP and got myself rank 4 Hero (albeit over 2 years ago) I have 3 sets of prestige armour on my main character and 1 on another. I have a variety of titles, but few maxed. Yet probably most of the player base do not even have this, I find GW:EN hard in places and I don't mind admitting that, so really is it too easy?

Should an expansion be limited to the top 10% who play the game?

Actually that was just to beat the game, they played more afterwards and first thing when he/she woke up

I agree with your point. I was once a psuedo hardcore (I thought I was hardcore until I met the 16/hour day 7 days a week gamer). Then I had family and the time to invest in a hardcore game is not there.

I bought GW because I have become the "average" gamer, I really enjoy the depth there seems to be in the game (I've only been on for a week so am still a noob) but also the pick up and play mentality. When I log in I try to find people to group, if not just go out and do it with henchman, I do not have an hour to wait for a party to form...

Had this game been more suited for the hardcore, it simply will not sell and without recurring subscription fees, it would be a flop.

for the OP: There are many MMORPG's that are more suited to the harcore crowd, is it that you like the GW universe or simply don't want to pay monthly fees?

Creative exhaustion. After three chapters on same shedulle, people run out of interesting ideas.

People can come up with great designs, but you gotta give them time to get ideas.

BTW: You cant really compare other chapter armors for one reason: 15k armors were just rehashes of their 1k equivalents. Everyone was fine with it back then.

Besides, they could have spent their doing other models. 10+20 Hero armors. Countless unique models for Asuras (pay close attention to them, pretty much every named npc there has unique face and clothing) and Norns (it seems that asuran/norn clothing is in fact draft for gw2.)

Fortunately, to succeed in PvE, you do not need to be anywhere close to "good".

Jeff Strain's speech made more sense to me.

I know entirely too much about this game- and it is easy for me in PvE. Even new monsters with new skills are easy to figure out. Then I think back to when I was first playing and spent weeks trying to get past Thunderhead Keep or some of the desert missions. The game was not that different then, there were just less people who knew what skills to use or how to play. Now I can blaze a new character through in no time.

There are still a bunch of new players out there who are still trying to figure out how to get past the Charr and make it to Pikens Square or are till using Starter Armour in the Shiverpeaks or selling black dye at the merch for 1g piece.

We look down our noses at these people and if they entertain us a bit with their chatter we offer them some help or revel in the moment when they see us raise a Flesh Golem the first time. The PvE game is designed for casual players and if you spend a lot of time at it, it will be too easy for you.

I like all the games and the expansion and will continue to play them. Tweaks, buffs, and nerfs come and go and you adapt, and design is what it is, meant for the casual player.

I understand and respect that the current content is challenging for many, and you must understand that I am not asking for it to be made harder. As I said in my post, a good deal of my concerns would be answered with the release of Hard Mode. I do not find the rezzing in dungeons or even the revival of team allies to be unreasonable in normal mode, but there must be a more difficult alternative for players who are ready for more difficult content.

My concerns have almost nothing to do with loot, either.

I am interested in being challenged, and I feel that Hard Mode will supply that challenge. Quite simply, I'm interested in hearing a reasonable estimate for the release of Hard Mode, and I'm simultaneously encouraging better community relations from ANet's side.

Thank you for your comments so far (aside from the obvious trolls and flames), I hope the civil discussion and flowing of opinions can continue.

I agree with your post and think Anet should and needs to read and think over what is going on in todays GW community, if they done GW 2 will be in dire need when it is realesed and i do not want to see the GW franchise Fall like soo many other MMOs and it will if they keep on the trend set with the disapointment felt from GW:EN.

I am Frustrated with the Lack of HARD MODE for i have acheaved tier 8 couragous delver, tier 8 norn, tier 8, asura, tier 7 workin for 8 agent.
i do apoligize that anet is not expectin people to get so high so fast but i really dont care to much for the stoy line after the 1st time through and i am workin for tier 6 KOBD title track and do not feel right that i have to wait till Anet wakes up and instates a Hard mode.....all i have to add to this waiting to max a title cause Anet did not realese Hard mode yet and has Said nothin about it Yet gives me a unsettling feeling in my stomach.... Im worried that they will wait 1 month or more to release Hard Mode....

For all those people who are wondering how to get so high so fast...Delver=Snowman cave with H/H no pauses inbetween runs and groups the more you pause or wait or go afk the longer it takes, Norn Vijerin Falls or how ever you spell it get every shrine boost kill everything I use H/H cleared entire area only takes roughly 30-45 mins depending on pauses Slows and Afks you will yeald 4-5k points from this area once you receave Hunt bonus do NOT LOSE IT, Asura Magus Stones Clear Everything Grab all Shrine Boost if you do not take any breaks or stops run takes 20-30 mins yealding 3-4k Points..... Vanguard Sagnoth runs take from 30-45 mins and yeald 3-5k depends on boost from shrines and Hunt bonus.
Sorry for adding this in here but It is most likley I will get someone PM or Posting asking how did I do this.

Ok, as others have said, this is guild wars, not "average joe MMO" or WoW...

We know Guild wars like the back of our hands or the inside of our helmets and the only people that I know in my guild and in real life that are really enjoying GW:EN are the 5 new real life friends I introduced to guild wars in the last few weeks because they see it all as one big game... hell, one is a mission monkey and beat prophecies, Factions and nearly nightfall in 2 days of gaming and then jumped onto GW:EN on release day and is still enjoying it because to him, its all the same game...

Its more of the same, and some of use here have been playing since the beta's, but its those of us that have found other things to do and are playing guild wars as the casual game it truly is are the ones that have racked up 5000ish hours but are still happily playing, as we go and play other things and come to guild wars to do stuff with friends/guildies/allies...

I think we seriously need to chill a bit and realize that there is more to GW:EN than meets the eye and that we won't see those benefits for another 18 months/2 years until Guild Wars 2 is released

IMHO, they will implement GWEN's HM soon, but they are still busy with GW2, and just finished GwEN.
I'm fine with the normal mode difficulty. Yes, seriously. Mobs have actually great builds, yes you can counter them as you can predict them once you encountered them, but their builds are a lot better than Prophecies/Factions/Nightfall ones.
The "ELITE" dungeon will be quite a challenge in HM I think.
But I would be glad if A-net implemented HM-specific missions/quests, with high-end loot as rewards. Some quests that are only available for HM, and that are very, very challenging BUT offers also unique rewards (like unique skin max collector weapons). Or make NM repeatable quests in HM a lot harder but more rewarding in terms of plats.
But if you're truly looking for challenge, do PvP. Try to be in Top 100 in GvG. You'll see that's a real challenge.

Specifically to address Hard Mode. I believe they will release it later to renew interest to "hold us over" until GW2 is released.

To me....

Hard Mode = "Twice as Slow Mode".
or
Hard Mode = "Boring Mode".

There is nothing "Hard" about hard mode. The AI is just as stupid.

Lets see:
Step 1 - Send in the heavily prot'd tank or similar.
Step 2 - Draw aggro to a choke point.
Step 3 - Nuke the crap out of everything.
Step 4 - Pick up white drops.

Rinse and Repeat

PLEASE CHANGE THE DAMM AI so that they are not so stupid. I like getting the crap beat out of me by a tougher/smarter mob the first time, it makes me think about my build and new ways to utilize new combinations of skills.

I could care less if 90% of the community couldn't do it. There is plenty for non-hardcore players to do. Most non-hardcore players probably haven't done everything in all 3 campaigns to even think about a hard-mode.

[/soapbox]

about the destroyers not having healers, i think that is part of their being badass mother$%&#ers

Well I just finished reading all the posts in the thread (there arn't an incredible amount of them but most are well thought out and still deserved my attention and time). First of all I would like to point out that I am absolutely ecstatic about this topic. No not because I hate GW:EN, no not because I hate Arenanet, and no not because I like to argue. I am stoked that this topic has been started because of the level of discussion that can be brought into the topic.

I would agree (bear with me) that I am disappointed with a large section of the GW:EN content. I am an armor RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO at heart and was disappointed that I would not be adding to my collection from the new armors. I am also a big fan of boss battles, most specifically the ones that make you sit there hands flying over the keyboard, nose an inch away from the screen, sweating heavily....and you still loose, and curse the world, your party, and finally anet for the idiocy of such an overpowered boss. I've always enjoyed figuring out how to defeat these bosses. I would learn from others in the game but I would refuse to use gwwiki until I had at least beaten the boss once.

Now. Its quite obvious (if not from the above statements than from the fact that I am even taking the time to post in the forums) that I am not an average player. I am not exactly a well known name in GWguru but I have been at the least, an avid reader since I discovered that the site existed. I play both PvE and PvP almost equally. So while I used to be called a hard core GW player, I have moved on. GW is still a game I play regularly but I havent pulled an all nighter with her in a while.

However, back to GW:EN...and being disappointed. So as I stated I was disappointed with the expansion. For a while. And when I say a while I mean until I really started looking.

GW:EN is full of little references and inside jokes that only the old timers and hardcore GW geeks would possibly remember or understand. Sure some of the monsters weapons and armors are reskins, but then you get to see Gwen yelling at a char, or see Cynn pouting in the background as Mhenlo flirts with another monk npc.

It was this discovery (more specifically how I discovered it) that changed the way I viewed GW:EN. A new player to the game (I really should say newer since "new" players cant actually be completely new to GW:EN) was asking why "the fire ele henchy was pouting" I look over and there she is pouting as Mhenlo is off talking to the prot henchy. I quickly explained to the newer individual and went on my way.

My toons Ordel and Maiti can now be found wandering the countryside searching for references to the older games and to GW2. The sheer number and the care with which the devs placed these references is just astonishing.

Now it is true that I haven't exactly refuted any of the statements made by other people. However I thought I would attempt to spit out my opinion in between lunch and going off to my Diff Eq class and attempt to show what GW:EN has given us that the other games never really did.

Also, as it has been stated GW:EN (atm) is more of a struggle for the average player and is a breeze for the elite commandos of presear. However, keep that in mind as you play. Perhaps retire your heroes for a while. Reopen the all chat channel and look around, find a newer player, and offer them some help. Sometimes they say no, but most of the times they graciously thank you.

Other than that all I can say is that GW:EN is an adventure. It was stated that only the developers have a say in what a game's PvE is. To an extent this is true. However, you are still the player. And the player will do what they will in a game as diverse as GWs is.

Sorry for adding another long post that isn't quite as well thought out as the OP (which I wish to say was very nicely stated and I applaud the creation of the thread). I felt that noone had mentioned the things that I just have and I felt that they needed to be mentioned.

Good hunting fellow heroes.

I didn't rush to the end of the story. But I've to say the story is way too short. I didn't realize until I'm at the central xfer chamber finishing the last mish. I was like lol. I wanted more. Or at least a longer story. GWEN basically has the same story as Faction's; Finding people to unite and fight the evil monsters.

What i've been doing was just farming those Asuran, Ebon Vanguard, Deldrimor points. I just think that there's not much depth in this expansion. I mean yes, Dungeons are cool. But i expected more.

I totally agreed. Why are those destroyer weapon so easy to attain. I mean just 5k and some material, that's it. O.o That's just not right. It's just not even a rare loot.

I like the Norn, Asuran weapon they offer in game. It's just awesome to use their weapons up to your taste.

Like many of you said, the armor is just reskinning. I mean it's just the same from previous campaigns. Noooooooooooo... You know a lot of us really look up to what we wear/use in game. I like this game because you can customize basically any gear you use in game for your character. If there isn't anything new, less people will stick with this game. Anet do some Post-Release armors, will ya? Like you did for the Prophecies. That helps!

I'm not a PvE fanatic but I'll find some PvE folks to pve with. Heroes are just broken...once again...I beat the game basically with henchies + heroes. Correct me if I'm wrong is this a Massive Multi-player game???? Only Multi-player part i see is in PvP ><;

GWEN can be better just the fact is they didn't do their best, should I put it this way?