PvP is slowly dying

I still enjoy hall of heroes.
Although I liked when pvp determined when the pves could get into uw and fow.


heres my opinions and why I like pvp more

Pve = hench and heroes (always) for me. Its boring to play with no real humans, but they all seem to suck when you do party with them.


Wait thats it.
Am I claiming pvers are all noobs?

....yea basically.
Congrats with your cartograph titles and the liking.

You've clearly got no experience with either of those games if you think you need to grind to win in them.

UO they ain't.

whether any pvper wants to admit it or not, HA was done with the intent of the chest at the end. whether you wanted to get rank 9 or not, you wouldn't do it if there wasn't a reward at the end
inscriptions = fail

Kuntor hit the mark

How can you not see that pvp is dead?

I respect your efforts in trying to fix what Gaile neglected when you came in but you just can't bring a corpse back to life. From the lack of significant skill balancing now a days (something that used to happen every couple months) to the Hall of heroes fiasco, these problems and many others has led many PvP guilds to call it quits. What you have now is a very stale PvP game that's been homogenized for the PvE community.

Yeah I loved it when Japan/Korea/Taiwan never got to see FoW /sarcasm

Will do!

For me, I just don't like the casual play in Guild Wars. I wish there was more skill involved. As it is - for casual PvP, mind you - I can only bring Rock, hope for Scissors and pray I don't run into Paper. That, and the fact that I haven't so far ran into a game that had more assholes (^) than GW.

Honestly there are only a handfull of people who have posted in this thread that have even half a clue on PvP metas, gameplay, etc. or even have the even slightest idea of what they are talking about.
Wrong. Tombs/HA (now) was done with the intent of meeting new people that played on a similar level as you did and forming a guild together to compete in Guild vs Guild combat. The end chest was to give the team a reward for playing and winning against other competitors. The chest wasnt about only the items. It was the only way to be able to earn a sigil for your guildhall. Thus the implimentation of Tombs/HA in the firstplace.

The biggest mistake anet made which helped kill competitive PvP was to stop offering the world championships. They offered two and just basically threw competitive PvP under the bus. This combined with no full UAX for PvP only characters were its 2 biggest downfalls. Others such as lack of skill balances and under-concieved ideas and classes brought into the game only further pushed it down into the ground. All of these things basically gave no one any real focus to strive to be the best at this game anymore. Now we play for a 100 dollar video card that I could go buy in less time than trying to get 7 other people coordinated and talented enough to beat everyone else out there.

ArenaNet's initial design was one of the most innovative on the market when Guildwars: Prophecies was released. A game that was revolved around the idea of the endgame content being strictly PvP and there were every indication of it being that was in the origional design and concept and creation of the game. They were however misguided in their attempts by the fact that not many players took to this and stayed in the PvE storyline of the game, thus forcing them to change their game entirely which has now been seen with Factions, Nightfall, and Eye of the North. While factions tried to adapt and push the more casual gamer crowd into more competitive PvP by the controlling of towns and outposts through faction and Alliance battles, it failed in its pursuit of doing so. The same rewards (aka faction) was given through the game as repeatable quests so it gave the PvE crowd no real reason to delve into the forms of PvP that they currently offered. By the time Nightfall and Eye of the North rolled around, you saw a complete turnaround of EVERYTHING PvP related tied into the origional concept of the game, thus finally appealing to the majority of its customerbase which as the games progressed, saw more PvE content added to the game, and Virtually nothing added to the PvP content. While the PvE customers help to supply your customer base, Anet made a hugely fatal mistake by not supporting its customerbase that helped to advertise its game and promote its game which was the PvP playerbase. Yes there were PvE trials and demos at different events and conventions, It was the Guildwars World Championships and the Guildwars Factions Championships which were used on display to help show the diversity and gameplay that guildwars had and is now lost.

PvP died ages ago. It just isn't as fun as it once was due to title grind and the recent changes.

Anet killed PvP by merging it with PvE. A mistake that cost them big time, but needless to say one that they claim will not be repeated in there next release, Guild Wars 2.

IMO, PvP sucks because it is TOO competitive, teams are out there more to win by any means possible, that is not for me, but maybe for the players of PvP, so I stick to PvE.

All I ask is that Anet seperate PvP from PvE like they plan to in GW 2, then update PvP to make it more balance with out effecting PvE.

pvp was meant to meet new people? rofl are you joking
anyone r6+ shuts out anyone who is 'new' to pvp

Um, what else is new?

QFT...

I don't think it was recent changes personally, the recent changes were things needed at least a year ago.

It was a lot of things combined that started over a year ago, the instability (or madness imo) caused by subsequent chapters, the change of tombs to 6v6, the lack of skill balancing, the destruction of the gvg ladder without even an adequate replacement until like half a year later (that was the one that was a kick to my face being a gvg player over all else). I'm sure there are other things people could bring up, like heros, and HB or AB or kill count. I really do think we're all just expecting a bit much, and balancing pvp became too difficult to be done within a reasonable timeframe if at all. Unforeseen complications, it happens.

I'm not going to complain though, GW was great for me. I played it for like 2 and half years, both pve and competitive pvp. It offered me a lot of fun. As it did for most of you if you think about it. Can't really last forever though.

did u bother to even read the post or just pull something out of your ass to raise your post count?

There are plenty of low ranked people that could form a guild together to HA more often and improve themselves as players and a team. What do you think most of the PvP guilds started out doing? The problem is that people do not want to work to get better and learn from their expierences, they think that because they are there, it should be handed to them just because they play the game.

Actually, PvP shouldn't determine if PvE should get to play somewhere. Everyone has favor now, not just Europe.

I hate to repeat what almost everyone else says but if you don't like PuGs, get a guild. And that elitist attitude won't get you a good one.

People don't like to invite egomaniacs who call them noobs.

I know just who you are btw

For me personally, Build Wars ruined PvP for me. It's a real turn-off.

Nowadays, PvXwiki allows you to copy and paste a good build and you can mash the buttons away and win. Ok, that's and oversimplified view but generally speaking it is true.

It's only human for people to want to win and they'll do so by any means and this means that we'll exploit overpowered skills and/or skill combinations. There will always be overpowered and underpowered skills because balancing 1000+ skills is a colossal task for mere mortals.

Take IWAY for example. When they extended the range to radar it allowed the old common IWAY build to function well [4 W/R, N/Mo, N/E, 2 R trappers]. It was overpowered and not many people would disagree. It took a beating with the nerf stick and we all expected to see a refreshing mix of balanced, synergized and co-ordinated parties instead of 5 IWAY teams in halls.

Then Power Of My Rangers held halls for like days on end with dual orders Ranger Spike which was overpowered (although not to the extent of old IWAY) and was nerfed but not to extinction. (At least it required good timing, accuracy and synergy to function.)

Then blood spike, then rainbow spike, then paraway, then ri[f]t spike, spike, spike, spike. Maybe if there were more counters to spikes than Infuse Health it would discourage the 3, 2, 1 mentality and allow creative and enriched play. It's not fair if the designated infuser has a tiny bit of lag, or sneezes or has an angina attack because they will miss their split-second opportunity to save their ally.

I do a lot of Randumb Arena and often reach Team Arenas to face... wait for it... a 3, 2 ,1 spike build [often consisting of Ritualists with about 10 spirits chucking balls at creatures who dare to go near]. They camp at the spirits and wait for something to come near so they can spike it down with 4x 100+ damage Channeling spells.

If its not Rits, it's Conjure Warriors or Thumpers with a ZB prot monk and another ball-chucking spirit spamming camper. All of which they copied from PvX wiki.

GvG is something I've rarely did but I enjoy observing. It's often the case that high-end GvG parties have identical or near-identical builds. Usually 2 Conjure warriors, a Melandru dervish [no conditions? Wtf where they thinking?!], a Diversion mesmer, blind-bot emo, Burning Arrow ranger with Mending Touch, a Mo/A LoD infuser and SoD Prot monk with GoLE.

I feel that the metagame becomes stale and predictible very quickly. Skill balance updates are great, even if they ruin your favourite builds because sometimes they shake up the common builds but it only takes a few days for the new common builds to form that everyone uses.

Just my 2 pence.

if by dead you mean its all the same builds, then yea. /copypasta from gwiki kthx

You have that completely backwords. Most of the stuff was done to protect PvP. The PvErs are the ones that suffered the brute of the skill balances because PvPers abused the hell out of skills.

You'd have to be rather clueless if you think that teams running highly similar meta builds has anything to do with it. The very fact that some people seem to be attributing many gvg builds resembling each other to "wiki" indicates their lack of credibility on this issue.

A metagame where one balanced build is prevalent isn't problematic as long as playing it more skillfully equates to wins.

PvErs cry about anything that remotely forces them to think outside the box. Look at GW:EN section and tell me otherwise, even with your overpowered PvE skills you'll try to find ways to make even the most easy task/dungeon seem like an impossible task and try to tell ANET that's it not the player but the game that is difficult.

PvErs are the majority in this game and they are the most vocal about any change to their homogenized game.(soul reap change anyone?)

+1 to PvP is already dead. It's been dying since the release of Factions, and has progressed far into rigor mortis by GW:EN.
It's dead because ArenaNet morphed into a PvE company. A sensible decision, when PvE makes the majority of sales by far.
Given the vagaries of the MMO market, protecting their source of income should be high on Anet's priorities.

Agreed. Hence GvG remains the highest form of PvP with least gimmicks and noticeably requires a greater degree of personal and team skill. I feel that teams with closely similar builds are indicative of a) excellent functionality, utility and convenience and b) embracing/exploiting/abusing [<-- pick one] overpowered skills/builds. The latter is somewhat problematic.

I personally disagree, I don't feel any PvP-oriented changes have adversely affected me, including soul reaping. I notice that as a Necro in PvE,I have to manage and monitor my energy more closely but not to an extent that I suffer because of it.

PvE players tend to be more vocal on the forums but, as one of them, I feel your over-generalizations are harsh.

Harsh yet true for a surprisingly/depressingly high number of players.

WOW I just love how PvP players can troll PvE like this, makes me want to play PvP all day long.

This is why I love AB and Aspenwood I can hit "enter" and play without showing my any evidence of e-mote grinding. Then opposing people can flash their e-motes all day long and by the time they are done typing I can send them back to the res shrine. Its no wonder AB and aspenwood increases a little each day.

E-motes and arrogance for the loss because it creates second class citizens in a virtual world.

PvP has been dead for a long time. How do I know? The Koreans left. They said that they didn't want to play a game where there was no reward. Fun Season after Fun Season made people quit. Even now, it's worse, because all the 'big name' guilds have split, merged, split, merged, and the remnants of them are now a handful of players in a couple of guilds. It's a sad state of affairs.

Huh? Elaborate...

The Korean guilds stopped playing Guild Wars (firstly due to conscriptions, but they did come back at one point), and when they were asked why, they said that they didn't want to play a game with no rewards. This was when there was 4 (?) back to back 'fun seasons', with no explanation as to why there wasn't any prizes being given out aside from capes and in game crap.

PVP was dead when heroes were introduced. A little bit before that also because anet really lacked on the skill balances, and didnt have a skill balance for a long period of time.

Play an FPS game, thats all the PVP you will need. lol.

Enough with the childish bickering, if you can't act like mature people, dont post.

I see this quote quite often from various long time posters.

Would someone please elaborate as I see ANet "balancing" quite often.

What is it that PvP players would like to see balanced that would revive PvP? Can someone clarify please?
I have an idea of what your are referring too but I'd like a hardcore PvP player to fully explain it with examples. As far as I can tell as long as there is a counter the game is balanced, please explain how PvP can be more balanced that would draw crowds of new players to PvP?

Are there too many skills & classes allowed for PvP? too few? How is PvP unbalanced?

really? *loads up bot*

pvp balance needs to be a continuous and gradual process. if a skill is deemed overpowered, then its effectiveness should be scaled back gradually. for example, shaving a bit off its damage, lowering its duration slightly, increasing its recharge by a few seconds. this process will continue at least once a week until the skill becomes balanced.

instead, we get the "nerfbat and booster rockets" skill updates. instead of gradually and continually changing overpowered/underpowered skills at a consistent basis and allowing players to adjust to it, we get the huge nerfbat nerfs, and huge booster rocket boosts. for example, the whole hexway metagame was the result of a single balance update that sent hex duration and power through the roof, and there was not an update to fix it until months later.

if anet really wants to create a healthy pvp playerbase (which they don't, btw. they want all of us to quit so they won't have people who know more about the game than they do yelling at them to fix it), then izzy needs a bigger staff to maintain the "continual, gradual" skill updates. he also needs a new streamlined process, since much of what he wants to accomplish needs to go through higher-ups who don't have a clue about the game, as well as speedier translators.

@Glory Fox

I think you may be just a tad lacking in the whole PVP issue of "If there are counters, everything is okay". Not to mention you are missing the shared thesis of many, whom have posted already. Most of the competitive PVP player base has already moved on because of the lack of balancing issues that took way too long to occur. Some still haven't been addressed. Really no need to beat a dead horse. I'm not to sure there are people willing to make a 10 page historical post about what skills were left unchanged, for how long, how it promoted certain metas, and character mechanics that were left untouched for ages. Fact of the matter is, nothing will bring back the majority of players that left over 3+months ago.

Who the Hell got the Idea of PvP dying? Guildwars Revovles Around PvP Even the Name of the Game Suggests some sort of Player vs Player Combat. Its not that People Suck at PvP or its just dying its just the Ignortant noobs Who Continue to ruin it. I remember When RA was actully a Challenge and the Warrior with a Hammer and Droks Armor was Actully a Challenge and Worth Match to Kill. I also Remember When it was Easy to Get Exped and LEarn something any PvP Aspect Wise. Now if your New or just Suck HA and GVG you Want to stay as Far away from as possible.

What we Really need is a System that Better Introduces PvP to Newbes and Balences out People Who ruin Anything Else Like Leaching Off AB and Quitting Every Match RA.


LONG LIVE PVP WOOOOOOT

*sorta off topic...only sorta*
Rebuff HA by returning the "eternal favor" granted by the "win the hall 5 times". Only this time put it next to the PvE "max titles for favor". So if your country has favor, that time from the PvE gets "banked", and when the PvP favor ends then the banked favor gets put back. Who knows, it just might make HA a bit more...active.


Anyways...yes I am willing to admit that PvP is dying. Dead? No. But dying. There is quite a bit that can be done, yet nothing is being done. To be perfectly honest, I find that Guild Wars has a reputation for having excellent PvP in comparison to other leading MMOs. Why ruin that reputation?

No. Just no.

Nobody who plays HA seriously gives a shit about favor. Never have, never will.

I think the slow die off of PVP has to do with the many invincible builds out there from M/D, ND, ED’s, to Assassins that constantly block all physical damage and instaheal from other damage.

It really gets ridiculous at times but you sure as hell don’t want them nerft as that would obliterate most PVE builds and they get way over nerf batted already as it is.

It would have been nice if PVP and PVE had been more intertwined in GW than they currently are. To some degree AB and Fort Aspenwood/Jade Quarry are, but it would have been nice [IMO] if it had gone further.
Imagine a game where you can choose in the RPG to side with the bad guys instead of playing the hero. Imagine missions where you don't only PVE but also PVP against the other side[s] champions [ala Fort Aspenwood] to determine the future of the continent and who wins the campaign Abaddon or the 5, Shiro or the Empire, the Lich or the Mursaat/White Mantle..etc.
Wouldnt it be cool if instead of the favour of the Gods, we get stuff like Nightfall has taken over Elona today [altered weather effects/more demons swarming the lands..etc.] and then players on the good side mount a counter attack [via missions that are PVE + PVP/quests..etc] to tip back the scales against whoever the bad guy is.
I think such an approach not only would keep interest in PVP high but also make PVE grind less necessary to maintain player interest in the game as a whole.
Of course I doubt such a change is possible at this stage, but it would have been nice nonetheless.

Title of this thread, as well as the OP's concerns are posted year too late. PvP is dead, it cannot even be compared to popularity and quality of pre-nightfall, yet alone pre-factions eras. What we have now are just few remnants grinding irrelevant rewards.

But Vanq and Kunt0r pointed this out before.

From my personal experience...
I quit playing seriously a year ago, still haven't uninstalled yet, like most of my friends who are long long gone. I occasionally play some HA with friends ( those few who remained from the old days ), but at this point, I don't really see the reason nor I have the will to sacrifice so much time to GvG or holding HOH like I did in the past ( daily 7-8 hour sessions, sleepless nights, after that zombie mode @ work and uni ). I just play casually now and then.

PvP was killed by lack of vision, lack of maintenance, lack of care, lack of love and attention from developers. Fans can sustain the scene for only so long... But again, I'm just repeating what others said itt before me. RIP Guild Wars PVP, was great experience while it lasted!

i would like

1vs1 arena : random or prof vs prof (like me/x vs me/y)
2vs2 arena (with heros allowed)

notes
-to avoid spirit spam crap teams must go to a central area....areas outside the central area collapse or have heavy degen.
- look at warcraft3 to see how hero battles should be (control of heroes, optimal view when zoomed out etc)

errrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr... i'd say you're way off the mark there

bad idea? firstly GW only allows 8 skills on a skillbar and the game is balanced for 8v8 play

1v1 and 2v2, you might as well /roll

Dying or not, it's been less fun to even watch games in observer; the at system made ladder disposable, so there isn't much point to play. I don't know if we can date when pvp started dying, but I do believe that a lot of what came with nighfall was responsible; it wasn't as bad before because there wasn't that many skills with questionable balance; if you compare skills introduced in factions, they average as not-so-good/decent, you hardly see anything way too good, and even the too good was more like necessary. When you look at nightfall, you just can't believe why such skills were even placed in the game. And the current balance, which is fairly good, took too long to happen, at the cost of players.

This isn't a real problem, just an opinion, but I do not think that the sin concept helps to preserve a balanced pvp enviroment. You have all skills spread over several classes that supposedely, work together to achieve something, a death; then you pack all you need to achieve the same death in one class, with 4 or 5 skills, under a few seconds. It's not like people don't know how to deal with that, but I, and I'll repeat, _I_ think the "assassination" concept should not have been placed in this way. Offensive shadow step is another mechanic that is terrible.

I honestely don't know how to revert this situation, but I think ladder should encourage players to play again. Rework the k value for ladder, a GW:EN anual championship, anything in those lines, something to give players a goal. All of this concerning gvg, I'm not familiar with HA anymore.