Guild Wars was built from the ground up to be PvP (with video evidence)

Then it matters which side they support more, not which they started with, or which they saw as a base for the start of the game. Obviously they favor making money, so I'm sure that means they favor whichever side (if they do in fact favor a 'side' - which is up for debate as well) that makes more money.

So, it's not important which came first, the chicken or the egg. It's important which sells more, and which the restaurant choses to work harder on cooking. That is the issue, leave the past where it belongs.

Oh god it's Ed!

PS. What matters is that promises were not followed through on. The majority of the high level players have stopped playing. It's doubtful they'll return for GWII because of the lack of support we recieved this time round.

Edit:

And killing mobs that are stupid and always do the same thing is so much fun, of course? Not having to think as you drone through mindless hitting c+space is way more fun than actually having to think about doing things, when you're doing them, and the consequences of doing them.

???

Yah, except PvP isnt about thinking about things anymore, is it? Thats gone out of the window since the advent of IWAY and the subsequent gimmick build of the month(s).

In fact its probably more challenging now to do PvP then play one of the 123456 builds that are the current fashion.

Why O why does every say since IWAY it was since this game was released PvP was a mess does anyone remember, spirit spammer, air spike, ele smiters, ranger spike and obs flame spike?

Do you even know what GvG is?

IWAY took more thinking than PvE does. This is because your opponents changed, in their setups and how they played. PvE mobs do not.

Guild Wars was built from the ground up to be PvP (with video evidence)

or

Let the flame wars between PvP and PvE begin!

BTW ..... unless I missed something, I never heard mention of PvP in that video. Competition was mentioned. Now, let the flamefest continue

competition (dictionary.com)

–noun
1. the act of competing; rivalry for supremacy, a prize, etc.
2. a contest for some prize, honor, or advantage
3. the rivalry offered by a competitor

Monsters are not active, they only react to players, they do not hence compete.

Competition is between two competing teams of competitors.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

Point made.

I sometimes think outside the box. Kasparov vs. Deep Blue. I think of that as a competition, even though it was human against AI.

Sorry for going of topic.

The difference is, in that case, it was a competition because there was a prize/recognition at stake from the result. Monsters coded into the game, however, can't logically compete for anything - PvE is simply players striving for the final goal, which they are intended to reach.

LOL I love how IWAY broke the game, but going straight to hall with a spirit build was fine to most people. At least with IWAY you had to win a match before being in Halls.

And we all know why PvP never caught on the way it was expected too. Three letters that ANET refused to accept would be a part of this game will WoW offered it.

IWAY is one of the best builds to have ever graced this game. If you don't recognise that and continuously flame it I feel sorry for you :/

PvP can be fun. So can PvE, give a rest will ya?
One's not better than the other, its just preference.

The topic is "what was guild wars made for ?" in essence.

Its built from the ground up to be competitive? Thats fine. That means the game's combat system is designed to be balanced.

Thats really it. The game engine works good in PvP. It works great in PvE as well.....so whats the problem?

I wouldn't say it broke the game, the thing is with spirit spam and ele smiters was they where so easy to play like IWAY the only difference was Anet took a hell of a lot longer to nerf IWAY.

There is nothing wrong with IWAY apart from Anet letting it live so long no other gimmick build had any where near the shelf life of IWAY, B spike comes close though.

Fame farming and bad players killed this build.

R-Spike, Smite, Thumpers, Adrenal Spike, Obs Flame Spike

?

So... even if the game was made exclusively for PvP, does that mean nobody should be having fun with PvE? Honestly, who gives a crap, have fun with what's fun for you.

Too bad they made HA 6 man... thats what really hurt PvP drastically more than some skill balancing.

In South Korea Televised footage of War Craft III gets much higher ratings than live sports.

Gaming is rapidly growing into a 'sport' in it's own right.

Thats because Korea doesn't have the NFL MLB or NBA.

Surely they must..? Asians love American sports.

it's all right

with the introduction of wurm pvp and its wonderful prizes old pvp ppl will come back

Sadly, the most balanced and easiest casual form of PvP they introduced was the Dragon Arena.

qft. like a better version of dodgeball, rawr.

ok, so I guess the trailer for Guild Wars which included Cynn, Devona, and that other ranger henchie was nothing? Wow, I could have sworn that it was PvE in that video. Seriously, GTF over yourself with all of your elitest PvP crap. Do what you want, and have fun with what you want. Why must people be such arrogant assholes like this guy?

So the game was also designed with a PvE element, but clearly the game was designed largely with an eye to competetion which is something which has been argued over endlessly in other threads.

Sadly it doesn't really matter at this point of course as others have pointed out. Best of intentions don't mean much now that a large part of the player base is alienated from lack of proper development of the pvp aspect of the game in the transition from Prophacies to factions>nightfall. Basically its start from scratch hopefully in GW2, and I hope they maintain much of what made PvP in this game so attractive at the start.

Thats imo the exact reason, why this game needs finally more options to gain fame in the game,. so that people get independent from being forced to search for a guild that plays a lot HA, to have a chance to raise your fame.
I ever asked my, WTF does Anet not implement any ways in PVE to gain fame points too !! WTF must it be HA only ...

I think, characters in PvE should gain everytime a certain sum of fame points, when they beat 1 campaign or complete the Add on, which is redoable with the books, so everytime u beat the add on, you get fame points again too.
Then everytime the player maxes a title, the player should receive for the character fame points ...

then should fame points become account based !!!, because what you do with 1 character, the experiece you have won#t you lose with an other character, that has not made so much fame, like ur main character, but the player should be still able to show the emotes with all his/her characters.

Everytime a player completes a master quest, they should receive some fame points, everytime the player makes a certain sum of consecutive wins in RA and TA, they should also receive fame points ...

the only difference in HA shold be then in the end, that HA would be the place, where players could earn most points in 1 rush.

Example:

Master Quest: 50 points
Made Challenge Mission: 100 Points
Any Campaign beaten: 250 points
5 consecutive Wins in RA: 100 points
5 "" "" in TA: 50 Points
Win in HA: 500 Points

Something like this. In this way every player, regardless of PvE or pvp and totally regardless of old bunny of GW or total noob, that started playing for a week ago, they all have the chance to get by time fame, so that the elite players will take them with the party, once you get into parties, its again only a matter of tries, until newer players will understand what they have to do, to win the HA with their party, then they get into the old guilds which have the experience and even clear surely their newbies up, however, but the fame system needs to get account based and needs then more possibilities to gain fame, other than only PVP, because that the great failure on the whole fame system imo !!! which lets players come to the point, which you wrote there for example, what i've quoted from you now. that newbies will have no possibility to come in into the game, because people will simple give newbies no chance to get the experience.

Then as newbie you can only hope, that there exist guilds, which are searching too total new players which will train them then, but such guilds are less, most pro guilds have for something like this not "the time"

Absolutely. I love it.

i was just having lunch and thinking about mentioning that. ^^

1 ranged attack, 1 melee, 1 run buff. Everyone has equal health and mana.

pure balance. It all matters on your skill at attacking, dodging, retreating and overall ping.

/petition for permanent Dragon Arena.

No need to reprint the rest of your post for an answer:

FAME WILL NOT BE INCLUDED IN PVE BECAUSE PVE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PLAYER VS PLAYER REWARDS!!!!!!!!!!!!! Youre not the first to suggest it and you probably wont be the last. but word of warning, it sounds just as stupid each time its posted.
Sadly this is the only thing that actualyl represents Guildwars' origional ideal of Skill> time spent and it only comes around once a year .

but yes /signed for perma dragon arena

. . . . . . .

What? As many points for doing a master quest as for 5 consec in TA? TA gets less points than RA? Fame for PvE period? Fame isn't already account based, since when? I'll have some of what he's smoking.

In before the shitstorm.

Pure example of PvP elitist attitude. Does it really matter to you so much that you do not wish others to have it? Are you that desperate for attention that you need people online to be able to recognize you with an emote of a pheonix? I hate to burst your bubble, but noone really gives a shit who you are, and quite frankly, no one really cares. That guy had a good idea to come up with a PvE and PvP solution. It is sad that people look to online games to prove they are H4RDCAR 2 DA BUN RAWR! with flashing emotes. Why not give others a chance to get this? Do not give me that bs of you having to 'do HA hours on end' QQ crap. I have not seen one person disrepect the PvP aspect of this game a bit. Why is it that when PvE'ers talk, the PvP'ers think its whining? Give me a break.

/signed for having Fame available no matter what aspect you come from.

Does this sound stupid enough for you, or do I need to repeat it again?

Isn't it s bit overkill to post the same exact topic on both of the two major GW's forums?

Competitive doesn't mean PvP, Pvp IS competitive but - So is the Pve, Everyone is competing against one another to have the best armour, the best weapons, the best titles.

Without Pve this game would of died fast, Without Pvp this game would still be going strong. Pve is larger, has more content and has the majority of the player base playing it.

Really?

Everytime I've been in Korea the only place I can find video game coverage is on the one cable channel that covers it - and it never airs anything for Warcraft. Only Blizzard game that gets coverage is Starcraft.

And none of my family over there has any awareness of this stuff. One person plays Starcraft casually - as in once every few months before he got married he'd stop by in a game hall and play for a bit.

I've seen a bus with the national champion Starcraft team depicted on it, once, in Seoul. But that was it.

By contrast, coverage of Football (known as Soccer here in the USA) and Baseball is all over the place. Everyone is a Football fan, and if it's World Cup season the nation grinds to a halt. Baseball is almost as big, but not quite, because unlike Football there isn't a world league for Baseball because we Americans seem to think 'world series' means USA teams only...

Basketball is also big over there, but nobody in my family follows it, so my familiarity is more limited.

Elitist? Giving fame to PvE is f*cking retarded. It's like giving ecto per RA win or some shit. Why is it that when a PvPer shoots down a horrible, horrible idea, some random PvErs come out and call him elitist for it? Get over yourself, it's a bad idea and anyone with half a brain can see that, whether they prefer to play PvE or PvP.

I can go through Proph in all of 4 missions, master quests are stupidly simple with a decent group, and challenge missions are a joke. You want fame for that? Jesus. What's next, champion title for killing Glint? Gold trim for dancing naked in LA for an hour?

why? Why would this be retarded? because you say so? I say, get over your elitist attitude.

and? whats the problem with this?

again, I ask why is horrible? because you say so? welp, thats 3/3 on your elitist shit

AGAIN, why do you think this is a community-wide thing that this would be bad?...because, I don't know, you 'elitists' think you own/dominate everything in the game? How about making fame available so people can TRY to do the highend PvP arenas if they want to.

sigh, this is getting old. Sure, they might be easy for you and I, but what about those newer players huh? The ones asking for help that you elitist type people just ignore these...people who want to actually help see that some actually do have a hard time doing these.

Actually, that Champion thing isnt such a bad idea. /signed for your idea on Glint. The gold trim? Now thats just silly.

Who'd ever bother trying HA when they could farm fame more quickly in PvE? Maybe a few hardcores, but everyone who's in it for the fame would leave, thus killing it off completely. You can't see that? People take the easiest route to their goals, it's human nature.

Don't assume random shit. Nobody who's actually good at HA randomly insults new players. Hell, I took them in groups sometimes, when my flist didn't supply a full team, and I'm pretty sure Power and a lot of others did/do the same. If you suck, you probably will get booted. If you don't, you stay, maybe even get added to some people's friends lists. You do get a few assholes who'll laugh about your lack of rank, but who cares? If you don't have the tenacity to make your own groups/keep trying/give some effort, you don't deserve anything anyway, really. I know you'll disagree, because you're one of those PvE'rs who wants everything without effort, but whatever.

I hope this is a joke. They're equally silly/retarded. Troll less pls.

Done with thread, cba to reply more to someone who won't likely ever understand.

thank you. you did what I wanted you to do - explain your side. all you said was no this and no that...good, you did more than that.

1) the glint thing was a joke. responding to sarcasm with sarcasm. sorry you did not get that.

2) I am NOT a 'random' pver that wants everything free. I work for my shit and I am damn proud of it. Getting fame however, is beyond my control. I have tried a few times, spamming in HA with the current FoM, but to no avail. I am sorry that some would be in HA just for the fame after they blast PvE so hard. But I find it hard to believe that those in HA would leave to PvE if there was fame to be had elsewhere. Even if it was a lower accumulation rate.

3) I have tried to start groups in HA. Noone was coordinated and it was just frustrating. After about 30 minutes of people calling each other noobs, saying GO GO GO OG OG O GOG O GOG OG OG O gets on the nerve real quick.

Yes this does sound stupid to me. You want a reasoning behind it fine ill give you one.

What does giving fame for killing a bunch of monsters on your way to a dungeon reflect on your Player vs Player experience and knowledge? Simple answer is: it doesn't . Giving a person an emote for a PvE accomplishment I could care less about. Personally for some of the harder titles like the Kind of a Big Deal title track, something should be given to let the PvE players show theit accomplishments other than just a stupid title. But giving a PvP related achievement for a PvE accomplishment is a plain stupid idea. How does being able to kill mobs with a farming build teach you anything about positioning, or tactics, or strat calling in say HA? See the point now? This would only help those that wanna farm the easy way for an emote, that is all. It would further push rank out the window as meaningless even more than it already has been with the double fame weekends, etc. that have gone on in HA, not to mention the fame farming services and builds that ran rampant for a while. All the rank emotes are for is to give anyone that is joining a group a guide to the level of experience that group has, nothing more. Will that group always be successful the higher the rank? No it will not. I have been in high ranked groups that got rolled by lower ranked groups and have been in the lower ranked groups that rolled the higher ranked ones.

My attitude isnt PvP elitest. If you have ever read ANYTHING I posted than you would know that. I speak the truth, wether it hurts or not. And yes truthfully everytime this idea or suggestion has been brought up, It has been met with the same argument that I provided you and was pointed out as a stupid idea by the community, not just myself. But how is my attitude any different than what you posted on here? You say its the PvP elitest attitude that keeps you from accomplishing anything or any ideas that you or others post that keep it from being seriously discussed, which is very very false. The other PvP thread that was up and being discussed got sidetracked because the actual useful information that did get posted, was offset by a bunch of misinformation and when that was corrected it turned into a flamefest because people didnt want to admit that they were wrong even when confronted by this fact.

The fact that you did try to get into this aspect of the game I will commend you on. We need more people with an interest in PvP in this game to keep the community fresh and with new faces and challenges. The PvP community has said this for the longest time. And no I'm not strictly a PvP only player. I do enjoy PvE and some of the aspects and areas of it as a nice break to go have fun with friends. I do it alot actually. If you feel you need too pm me in game as "Mistress Yichi" (my monk) and I can gladly meet you ANYWHERE in this game and would accompany anyone that would invite me too. Now that i got sidetracked back to my point. While you tried, standing in an unranked group in HA will take forever, but can still be done. There are plenty of places such as guildwarspickup on irc, your friends list, a forum for PvP players and guilds on the forums here, theres a "Friends list" in many other forums including this one of people that post their in-game names for guesting anf HA, hell even talkign to people in-game as long as you arent an asshat or pm them something thats immature and foolish. The first HA match i ever did was because i pm'd a guy i knew was a pvp player and did HA from a couple videos that were posted of him and friends in Tombs (HA now). We talked that day for like 2 hours with him explaining some of what goes on in that area and builds and such. He invited me along and I been hooked mostly on the PvP aspect of this game ever since. It doesnt take rocket science to get into PvP in this game, just a little homework

If HA is such a flop there is the need to force people to play it. If it is so unpopular that without the people who's only reason for being there is to farm fame, not because they enjoy HA.

It deserves to die and whatever efforts that goes into it needs to go elsewhere.