Guild Wars was built from the ground up to be PvP (with video evidence)

We don't need fame in PvE, we need emotes in PvE for titles such as Kurzick/Luxon title track, Sunspear/Lightbringer tracks, Asura/Deldrimor/Norn/Vanguard tracks (so, faction tracks), as well as for the KoaBD track and maybe a couple others. That way when a PvP elitist comes to PvE and flashes their fame emote we can flash an emote back at them.

May as well shut down this thread also

I'm not for fame in pve, as I could care less about fame. However, giving ecto to RA winners is about as stupid as giving stuff like gold crystallines and other pve skins to HA winners. You can craft a perfect weapon or perfect armour already. There is no need for any of the special skins outside of pve. The idea of getting something wanted that much by pve'er for playing the C+SPACE version of PvP is kind of funny.

Go to Quakecon sometime and see how much PvP involves pressing C followed by SPACE. Even those that talk about PvP in Korea, RTS is big there which involves quite a bit more strategy than 8 characters pressing 8 a few keys. GW PvP is for those that are left out of real PvP just like PvE in GW is for those that don't like the hardcore grinding PvE of other games.

Tonka PvP and PvE...

Hahaha, fame for pve, you almost got me there. I thought you were serious. Oh man, I must say that was a really good joke. And you managed to keep straight face when talking about this.
/salute

I'm quoting this because you have put down exactly my thoughts on what, for me, was the biggest issue I've had with the game since I started playing of this year in May. I love PvP and heard it was pretty amazing in this game, which I do believe it is, but If it weren't for the PvE, I would have no clue as to what I'm doing. It's also a good thing that I'm resourceful and like to read up about these things, because for someone new who isn't that involved with learning these things (my brother for example who I got to play the game two months later) PvP in this game is pretty much out of the question.

I would love to participate in the AB or even HA battles...but in reality don't see that happening. In RA I'm getting asked what I'm "running" and I usually don't reply simply because I don't know what they're talking about. The only PvP I do is RA, and it's fun, for a little while, but I wouldn't mind taking the next step...which I'd think is TA, and I have a very difficult time adjusting to things if someone told me to make a certain build. It takes me a while to get used to something new like that, so I can't say with certainty I'd be any good to them. Again, the PvE though has allowed me the freedom to try things out and get used to doing different things, but it will never compensate for the human thinking factor that you get in PvP.

I think for me the most difficult thing about the PvP in general is it alienates and punishes new players who are looking to try it, and want to learn.

Do not get frustrated by a learning curve. Every game, sport, or actiity will have one. PvP isnt just something that you can jump into and be able to execute well or to a high degree of success. It takes some time to fool around with different builds and different professions to be able to understand fully and figure out which ones work and which ones do not. Check the PvP forums here in the Gladiators Arena for some general terminology and general information about the different classes and skills. Talk to people in areas like RA, TA, HA, and such. You would be suprised that people will actually respond to your questions. Yes you will get a lot of dumbass people that will give you a dumbass answer, but you will find a few people who will actually be able to help you. Once you have the idea behind the build or class that you wanna run, go to RA and practice it. Learn your cast times and reactional situations. Granted you might not win, but just take that time to learn your character. Practice kiting, casting, canceling, etc. All the things you would do in a higher level of PvP.

PvP will only alienate the players that do not want to put in the effort to get involved in it. Anyone who is just wanting to play the occasional match here and there will be able to do so, just not as often or with the success they would like, but the same can be said for ANY game that has PvP play in it.

edit: me and spelling today FTL

Focus changes within MMO's; just a point of fact.

I guess then women's sports aren't really sports. Also, I read this article somewhere on the internet that Google isn't finding for me right now. It said that women weren't really people and they shouldn't have been considered people in the first place. I just thought this random article that came from the internet somewhere with 0 documentation would support my bullshit argument. kk bye

After reading the last 2 pages of rubbish, I have one question... Why do people who have no interest in doing HA even want fame?

Nice, trying to claim I'm sexist because I didn't include Women's sports? Even Women's sports are mentioned on television more frequently than "professional gaming" events. Let's see, when was the last time the LPGA was mentioned on national TV? Hm, just recently with the announcement of the 2007 Solhiem Cup. When was the CPL last mentioned? Oh that's right... never.

Can we lock this stupid thread now?

For the cheesy dog**** of an emote. I've heard been able to flash a tiger makes one "Teh Uber 1337"

Hehe, just ask the Charr

A lot to respond to.

So you are basically with the attitude "let PvP die" when it was the most unique part of the game?

I am not claiming that PvE wasn't always in the game, I am claiming that PvP used to be a much larger part of the game than it is now. In Prophecies, the entire game was set up so PvP was the endgame! Nowadays, PvE is taking over and PvP is a fading memory. I'll ignore insults as well.

This is probably the worst idea I have ever heard. Stop wasting time even discussing it. The only people who would even talk about this are players who don't have the skill to earn it correctly.

Not only that, but I find it hilarious that you want a PvP title in PvE. PvP is NOT meant for grind, it is meant for skill.

Nah...some people don't read both.

Competitive means PvP in this case. The Anet founder mentions the game being built from the ground up to be competitive while talking about a PVP EVENT. How hard is that?

Also, your comment that without PvE this game would have died is not correct. There are 2 things that made Guild Wars unique...PvP and no monthly fees. If you kill both of those, then Guild Wars dies. We are halfway there.

This argument is a joke. The REASON these things die is because effort has ALREADY been going elsewhere.

Of course not, I said nothing of the sort, and I don't know how you got that from what I did say. I am simply refuting the point of this thread, which seemed to originally be to prove which "came first." I'm saying it's not important, because it isn't.

If they spend more time on one 'side' than the other, it is likely because that one side gives them more money - there's just more PvEers than PvPers, basically. Not saying it's right, or even should be that way, just stating what is likely the truth. I honestly feel the game should be a good balance of both, and equal care for both sides. Obviously PvE takes more time to work on, because of skins, quests, environments, etc. But PvP should be cared for - balance, maps, tournaments, exploits taken care of, etc.

However, you seemed to want to show that PvP came first, and therefore more important. I disagree. It doesn't matter, and it isn't more important. Both should be equal - and if that means the devs should get their act together and improve PvP, so be it - get 'r done.

Or it's because game designers were the managers of a company and made a mistake with their marketing strategy for this game.

Hopefully they will have learned from the experience.

Yer they should have learnt from there mistakes but it will be too late, there are better PvP MMO's coming out and better PvE MMO's by the time GW2 is released the community will be dead. Unless they can get it released sometime in 2008.

Sorry if I misread.

However, your claim was that it isn't important which came first, but which makes more money. I have to disagree because it IS important which came first for several reasons.

Here is one:

Bingo.

They originally marketed this game trying to attract a competitive crowd, and are now doing a complete 180. Thus, many people who have supported this company for years (including me) expected one thing and are now being given another.

Fame for PvE?! LOL! no thanks

GLFM must be rank 6+ no noobz!!!1

The only thing that is important for any product's success is how much profit it can make. If they originally designed GW to be primarily a competitive game, which I disagree with, and it did not sell well enough for that reason, then it is in their best interest for the success of the game to alter their strategy. Now, it can be debated that how they altered their strategy and the direction they have taken PvE is not working out. If so, then they took a chance and it isn't working out.

Either way, their original intention with the game is not important and has no effect on the future of the game. I personally think that if they didn't change anything, then GW would be a huge failure by now. Instead, it is making money still. That has to mean something.

Indeed, the original intention is not important. It's supply and demand, marketing. Today and tomorrow are important. The past is good to remember and to learn from.

PvE is paying the bills. Money talks as well as cheer numbers. 'Backfire' is a b..., especialy for pvp...the irony. The pvp elitist is a dying breed, soon we'll have to protect you from extinction. Nah, I won't waste my prot spirit on you. (just kidding)

Actually, the potential for selling as a competitive game was pretty huge. Unfortunately there were mistakes made during the pre-release stages (Korean tournament being hurt by skill updates), and as soon as release came was worse (no UAX, massively long time to grind to unlock, nerfng of all good unlocking spots). When people want to play a competitive game, they want to be able to buy it, and go ahead and play the game. They don't want to have to grind for however many hours to unlock things. This was far before the time of Faction, Rune Traders, etc. I can't even remember how much gold I spent on unid'ed Armors, Super Vigors, Expertise, and Dom runes. There was also an imbalance in terms of items for an incredibly long time, what with no PvP Crafting allowance.

mistress, I take back what I said about you. You really do seem like a good person, and I understand what your reasoning is about not having fame in PvE. Pvers need some love too in regards to emotes, or make a viable system which introduces new people to be able to compete in HA without regards to rank (for example, not being able to display titles in HA outpost). There was another great post on here somewhere where the guy was talking about how PvE and PvP were mixed at one time...why cant we just come together for the love of the game instead of PveRz R TeH NubZ or PvPz Sux0rz?

Before I say anything, letme just make it clear that I play both PVE and PvP and have been playing both PvE and PvP since the beta weekends for Prophecies.

That said,

You want fame for PVE?

No.

You want reasons?

1) Why was fame originally created? Under the best scenario, it was intended to display skill and at worst it displays the amount of experience you have at playing HA.

Therefore, why would you want to award fame to players for doing things in PVE, something which has very little if any elements in it that bear even the most remote similarity to HA.

I understand you want rewards for PVE accomplishments but giving PVP rewards is not the answer.

2) It's not hard for anyone with a half a brain to see the PVP in this game (at least Prophecies gametypes) were designed progressively. RA -> TA -> HoH (HA they call it these days?) - > GvG.


Let's look at PvP in GW shall we?
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In RA you are pretty much only responsible for your own bar and can focus on learning it and playing it well. Your goal here is to learn to put 8 skills together in an effective synergy.

In TA you are given a bit more responsibility, 4 bars, 32 skills to synergize. Also with pre-formed teams, team based tactics and strategies should start to appear.

The game was balanced around 64 skills and HoH gives you the first taste of this. There's a not a lot of mobility related tactics in HoH (as compared to GvG) so the focus here is on making an effective build and the high focus on 8 on 8 fighting here should let you gain experience in target/tactics calling. At the end, HoH gives you a celestial sigil, allows you to buy a Guild Hall and move on to GW's PvP pinnacle, GvG.
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There is no elitism here, people more experienced then you in PvP are simply shooting down a bad suggestion. Some of them may be doing it in a less than polite manner, but that doesn't mean they are being elitist.

Starting in PvP is rough, I'll give you that, but accept the fact that you will likely be bad at it when starting and that you will get yelled at. That's ok, listen to what people are yelling at you for, resist the urge to yell back and learn. Hopefully you will improve your skills.

Lastly, you as, some other people (Yichi I think?) has already mentioned, make use of the PM feature in this game. You will be suprised how nice other people, particularly top players, are as long as you ask them nicely and aren't an asshat waiting to call them on their PvP elitism.

There are quite a few problems with GW PvP at the moment, but I recommend you reserve passing judgement on any of those until you get a considerable more amount of PvP experience. That's not elitism talking, it's really common sense (at least for me) that if you don't have too much experience in something, you should keep your mouth shut until you learn more about it.