HoS chest runs?

Shiney T

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

[Dawn] Order of Osthilioth

Mo/

Wow. What. The. F**k.

I'm not going to complain about the chest run - I never did it.

But the quest is now almost impossible, for me anyway. I'm not the best player, hell not even close. I play this game casually. I'm on a slow-ish computer.

60% DP before I even get to Cyndr. Mainly because of the new monsters added in are right on a spawn and caster hench or heroes tend to die. I kill one Skelk, and all the 7 heroes/hench are dead before we get a chance to kill another. What makes it worse is that there is 2 groups that generally stand there after you have agroed them and they don't leave in time for you to spawn. YAY more DP.

I use my armour of salvation before I fight Cyndr thinking I will stand a chance, but no. Pyroclastic shot = Partywipe at 60% DP with Armour of Salvation. All 8 dead as soon as they spawn, and i've tried in a PuG and with H/H.

Before you quote me and say it's my fault for being shit at the game, I know I am, and there is plenty people I have seen that are at the same skill level as me. Don't waste your time.

What the hell Anet? Wow ...

korcan

korcan

noobalicious

Join Date: Jun 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord dragon
DOA in hard mode and PVP are the only real challenges left for me in the game. GWEN is endless farming for points to buy reskined armor (already have elite armor) or consumables. No money in it. No fun in it. No challenge in it. DOA is a challenge for me still. Not many areas are anymore.

So, what you consider grinding in DOA I consider a challenge. What others consider a challenge in GWEN I consider endless dribble with no challenge in it.
doa hm might be a "challenge" the first time you attempt it but like everything else in pve, once you become familiar with an area the "challenge" is no longer there and the activity becomes repetitive grinding.

since there really is no "challenging" areas to pve, you seem to equate fun with making money. thats fine, to each their own. but to say youre going back to doa and then to end your post with "i shall not grind..." is being hypocritical.

Sheriff

Sheriff

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

Heroic Order of Tyria

R/W

You know what's ironic?

ANET's nerf is actually killing PUGs. So many people never PUG outside their guilds except for runs like these.

By getting rid of these runs, ANET is "throwing" these players back to their H/H teams.

ANET, you are killing your own game. You are truly clueless.

Davros Uitar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Fool Wolves

W/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheriff
You know what's ironic?

ANET's nerf is actually killing PUGs. So many people never PUG outside their guilds except for runs like these.

By getting rid of these runs, ANET is "throwing" these players back to their H/H teams.

ANET, you are killing your own game. You are truly clueless. Hmm - a few good points there. But tell me, in your opinion was teh popularity of the PUG runs driven by greed or fun? There will be a few that were motivated by fun, but the realistic bet is that the popularity was driven by the lure of some shiny lucre at the end.

What is stopping people from PUGing it now?

Answer is that it got harder to do. You can no longer let one guy run the mission and spam kegs while no one else moves a muscle. Now that HOS PUG has to rely on team work and builds and skill and such. One of the reasons that people don't PUG much is because you are putting your "life" in the hands of the gaming public and you have no idea whether they will drop the ball. NO enough trust flooding about the servers - why have some nasty tank scream at you that you can't heal - why suffer when someone up and rage quits (mind you - my best PUG's have been when people kept on going after multiple rage quitters).

So I agree with you that the nerf has killed the PUG phenom that was the HOS chest run. But I disgree that this particular nerf was a bad thing. I share your concern for the PUG which has died a horrible death, but I don't think that is solved by the developers legislating that there will be a formally approved and easily grasped basket of goodies in the game to encourage PUG at the expense of all other content. Surely you must realise that if a game gave us everything we desired on a plate at the very start, then the game would soon have no meaning - no goals, nothing to play for etc.

Sheriff

Sheriff

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

Heroic Order of Tyria

R/W

Davros,

You make a few good points yourself. The thing is, the PUG has died for many reasons and we shouldn't go over all of them here.

I will mention that two reasons (not saying they're the 2 most important ones) people prefer H/H over humans is that a) H/H don't ragequit b) H/H are more "reliable" (in terms of not lagging out/running off/misclick, etc)

In a "collective run" like the HoS run, a PUG won't suffer too much if one, two maybe even three humans ragequit or get themselves killed due to human error. On the other hand, if a PUG is formed to actually fight all the way, if we don't consider the fact that it might take ages to find the right party combo, usually one ragequitter is enough to put the entire party in jeopardy.

As someone mentioned before, the HOS PUG is one of the very very very few PUGs that were consistently being formed in GW:EN. Killing it is a very very very bad idea that doesn't help Guild Wars at all.

=HT=Ingram

=HT=Ingram

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Anchorage Alaska

Haz Team [HT]

R/W

Well the other factor is I can't get a group organized to go get magmus... Only thing in HoS people seem to want to do is go to get the chest... Which is still a breeze really, you just are fighting your way there instead of running past everything...

And then once at magmus. He is just so hard to kill... I mean you can spike him and spike him forever and not do 1 dmg point to him. so the only thing to do is keg him and that is significantly harder now. and almost impossible on your own.

Personally I think if he remains the way he is he should at the very lest be upgraded to an elite quest... With a better chance at his green if he is killed. Then maybe we can get some groups going down for him as well... Instead of just Diamond farming the boss chest on from the Wurm.

Tarzanboy

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2007

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheriff
I will mention that two reasons (not saying they're the 2 most important ones) people prefer H/H over humans is that a) H/H don't ragequit b) H/H are more "reliable" (in terms of not lagging out/running off/misclick, etc)
I dislike PUGs for different reasons, but that would be another discussion.

Quote:
On the other hand, if a PUG is formed to actually fight all the way, if we don't consider the fact that it might take ages to find the right party combo, usually one ragequitter is enough to put the entire party in jeopardy. Very true, but is a run group, more or less one for HoS, really a true PUG? 1-2 runners with 6-7 people doing nothing until the end (if they ever do anything at all) qualifies as a PUG?

Rather than simply sniping about how this ruins everything, what would you do, aside from the reinsertion of barrel spam, to reintegrate the "PUG" aspect into HoS?

Cheers,
TB

Wrath of m0o

Wrath of m0o

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Boston Ma.

Is That Your Build[HaHa]

P/W

Actuall this chest run was the most enjoyable PuG group's i had ever been in.
Everyone that was in our groups were hardcore players, all with excellent builds. While it was the most fun i had ever had in GW history (mabe except the trader reset) the smartest players in the game were here.
I completely crafted two destroyer weapons for 5k, well except for a few granite a guildy helped me with..Thanks Vega!!

We knew this was getting Nurfed, thats why we got as many runs in as we could, and continued to stay after the new build came out.
If you missed out on this run, i feel bad for you, but like alot of stuff in this game, if your not on top of your game while its hot, you miss out.

Met lots of new friends on this run..sad to see it go. It was just too good to be true.

On another note, if your looking for Diamonds to go with your Onyx..
All my Free Treasure in Nightfall was reset, i spent 3 days running chests with my 8 characters for a little over 160k platinum, a ton of Golds and max mods, and i think like 12-15 diamonds.
Looking for a new run?
Wiki Buried Treasure

fujin

fujin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

Hong Kong, all the way in Asia :O

Officer of United Jedi [UJ]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath of m0o
Actuall this chest run was the most enjoyable PuG group's i had ever been in.
Everyone that was in our groups were hardcore players, all with excellent builds. While it was the most fun i had ever had in GW history (mabe except the trader reset) the smartest players in the game were here.
I completely crafted two destroyer weapons for 5k, well except for a few granite a guildy helped me with..Thanks Vega!!

We knew this was getting Nurfed, thats why we got as many runs in as we could, and continued to stay after the new build came out.
If you missed out on this run, i feel bad for you, but like alot of stuff in this game, if your not on top of your game while its hot, you miss out.

Met lots of new friends on this run..sad to see it go. It was just too good to be true.

On another note, if your looking for Diamonds to go with your Onyx..
All my Free Treasure in Nightfall was reset, i spent 3 days running chests with my 8 characters for a little over 160k platinum, a ton of Golds and max mods, and i think like 12-15 diamonds.
Looking for a new run?
Wiki Buried Treasure Thanks for reminding me

And a little curious, what kind of items did you get from the Locked Chests on the way?

Wrath of m0o

Wrath of m0o

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2005

Boston Ma.

Is That Your Build[HaHa]

P/W

Um, unfortunatly..
I rarely open Locked chests unless im in an elite area, so i didnt open any of them on these chest runs.

xcenic

xcenic

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2006

N/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by WoodyDotNet
Maybe if they spent less time nerfing and a little more time fixing the broke-ass H/H AI the game would be more fun to play.
damn right my dear breather, they spent more time nerfing and stoping the only thing what we cant enjoy in this crappy "expansion"

greyhawk

greyhawk

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

IGN : Greyhawks Destroyer

guildless

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by xcenic
damn right my dear breather, they spent more time nerfing and stoping the only thing what we cant enjoy in this crappy "expansion" you bitch about everything about gwen, if you dont like the game dont play it, it is as easy as that.
i am not going to get into anything with you, not worth the time but i felt like some one should say a few words.

i have noticed that you do a lot of bitching when they "nerf" certian areas, they are fine tuning the game. every single game i have ever played gets tuned like this to fix issues they never for seen when making the game. the kegs drop rate and slavers exlie taxi were just 2 things they fixed that were bugged, now that they work fine people will bitch cuz they dont get easy items and money. what ever , they fixed it to make it work the way it was suppose in the first place.


PS they do need to Fix the Ai of heroes, tho they might have done this to make players accually play together instead of solo with H/H

lord dragon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2007

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by korcan
doa hm might be a "challenge" the first time you attempt it but like everything else in pve, once you become familiar with an area the "challenge" is no longer there and the activity becomes repetitive grinding.

since there really is no "challenging" areas to pve, you seem to equate fun with making money. thats fine, to each their own. but to say youre going back to doa and then to end your post with "i shall not grind..." is being hypocritical. I guess the difference for me is instead of hitting C, spacebar endlessly without the chance of loss is no challenge. In DOA (hardmode) there is a chance of loss. The rewards are much greater too for the challenge. So the excitement for me is to see if I stay alive and get what I want. In GWEN, I neither get the challenge or the reward as the drops are terrible (already discussed, not gonna bring it up again) and requires no thought to do it.

So, to some, GWEN is a challenge I guess. For others, like me, there is no challenge. If you consider point grinding a challenge, then GWEN is for you. For me, point grinding is endless dribble without the challenge in it, or the reward for the challenge. Until that changes, GWEN offers me nothing now.

It did offer a lot of laughs with alliance/guild, but they nerfed that. So it is back to doa for me until such time that they actually put a challenge in somewhere in GWEN or another area. I don't seem to play as much now as other games are starting to get my attention, but, I will not discuss another game here. I don't think I will be in the line to get GW2 after seeing the GWEN offering until I see the reviews out from a lot of reviewers. If it is endless dribble grinding for nothing, then I will pass. If it offers real challenges, then I will consider it.

Anet had a customer that blindly followed them through expansions. I liked the offering up until now. But, as with everything, once you disapoint a customer, they have a tendency to tell everyone they know about it, and you have to work twice as hard to get them to consider you again. Unless you have a monolpoly of course, and GW doesn't have that.

It is unfortunate as the other 3 were definetly good to great.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

SlippyJack

SlippyJack

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2006

Clan Dethryche [dth]

W/R

Farming is fun for me. What else is there to do in Guild Wars other than that?

All the campaigns have been beaten, vanquished and replayed.... Hall of monuments is filled with crap... Now what?

Give me a break and nerf the nerfing...

oh and:
Quote:
Originally Posted by greyhawk
you bitch about everything about gwen, if you dont like the game dont play it, it is as easy as that. Your $40 is more important than everyone elses? If someone buys the game, they have a right to complain.

Davros Uitar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2006

Fool Wolves

W/Mo

Lord dragon,

Your logic escapes me - is not toughening something up indeed making it more challenging? Did they not then do something you supposedly want to see happen, and to one of your fav areas?

Sorry if I keep seeming to have a go at you in this thread, so I will end that with this post so that you don't start thinking it is personal or anything. It's not intended personally - I find myself drawn to comment whenever I find the logic particularly hard to swallow. Surely you are either against something tougher or for something tougher. You seem also to like highly repeatable things but are against repitition. The only consistency I see leaks through behind the words and implies a tie to rewards rather than the things you argue for (ie less repetition and harder gameplay). That is why I have taken the position I have.

I guess I should stop grinding away at these points.

Please remember...

I must not .................................................. ............

Uber Mass

Uber Mass

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

The Netherlands

retired from gw [agro] still ftw

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord dragon
I guess the difference for me is instead of hitting C, spacebar endlessly without the chance of loss is no challenge. In DOA (hardmode) there is a chance of loss. The rewards are much greater too for the challenge. So the excitement for me is to see if I stay alive and get what I want. In GWEN, I neither get the challenge or the reward as the drops are terrible (already discussed, not gonna bring it up again) and requires no thought to do it. I totally agree on the challenge part... DoA makes it a challenge cuz whipe is fail... Did full runs in DoA HM mostly succesfull but some failed in foundry..This part im defo missing in EOTN maybe they add this challenge in HM update soon im hoping for it...

I cant care less for the nerve of HoS chest runs.. simply its a bug like the Slaversbug wich is nerved earlier... So kudos Anet good one now add HM please

intimidator89

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2007

Urgoz Warren

Nice Cream of Ice [Nice]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram
For the record HoS does not have a chest when killing magmus. its a boss kill and a skill cap. and he is near impossibile ot kill. indeed I doubt many will be able to kill it, certainly not alone. not now... maybe 3 or 4 people... we did it with 6 and it was a real pain in the ass to do as we all had to stack up kegs and attack at same time then wait again till everyone had a keg and do it again. anything less he just regens back to full health. between keg spawns.

and No there is NO chest to exploit when doing this. Just a potential green drop, and a Skill cap. Did they change this too? I killed Magmus several times on the HoS chest run and a reward chest always spawned. It dropped diamonds, onyx, greens and golds. I got a platinum bow and staff, both were high req though. Most of the gold drops were merch fodder tho. Most times, there was also a locked chest to loot afterwards as well. Any green drop came from the chest. I got all but the Aegis on my earlier runs. So I bought the Aegis for 2k for my paragon, but I'm sure they will all go up in price now.

The boss and his mobs were not a cake walk with the old keg spam method. Many times I saw a full party spamming kegs when Savannah Heat hits and wipes out 6 out of 8 of us if you don't move quick enough. If the last two are good they can kill off some oozes before they die and we all rez to try it again. Once or twice we did have someone that could finish off the mob solo but that was rare. With the new keg delay, I doubt a full party can kill them with the kegs at all.

The first nerf added 2 skelks. We still ran it with some delay. Then they added 2 corrupted skelks and delayed the kegs. After the three of us leaders on the run kegged the skelk and died, everyone res'd and we tried it again but to no avail. Even if we did clear em, we noticed with the dramatic delay that there was no way to beat all the oozes. So died the chest run.

As for the run, it was the most fun I've had on GW for a while. PUG heaven. I will miss it sorely. EOTN is dead with just some trading and 1 or 2 people looking for groups. There wasn't even anyone trying to do the HoS quest much less a chest run.

Shiro Katagari

Shiro Katagari

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

The Frontier Wolves

R/Mo

So, less whining from me, more activity this time - I did the run again (regular party, H&H, just a little before GWG updated the server), fighting my way down like a good honest tomb-robber, and this time I recorded the relevant stats.

Time taken (from leaving CTC to Magmus' chest dropping): 41 mins

Actual gold acquired: 63

Items acquired:
1 vial Brown dye
White Talon Daggers (96g)
White Flame Artifact (61g)
Armour 33 (Pyrebound Insignia, Minor Command rune)
Armour 34 (Brawler's Insignia, Minor Curses rune)
Blue Bronze Scythe (36g)
Blue Lesser Dark Scimitar (78g)
White Crimson Claw Scepter (55g)
White Evil Eye Staff (53g)
White Hypnotic Scepter (51g)
White Righteuos Maul (54g)
2 Blobs of Ooze

Total value of Merch fodder: 484

Place your own values on the runes and dye

And the chest drop itself was (drum-roll)...
- Adamantine Shield (Armour 16, req 9 Tactics)
- Health +28
- 'Pure of Heart' Inscription (reduce Poison duration by 20%)

So, max gold inscribale shield, but worthless mods - have to check if the skin itself is worth anything, otherwise it's a 360g merch.

41 minutes for a chance of a decent drop from the end chest - and it *is* just a chance, Magmus is a tough cookie and can easily stomp a party into an untenable position. The last 19 minutes or so of the session was dealing with him and his squidgy buddies.

If we arbitrarily say that Magmus' Staff (for example) will drop for you 1 time in 20, then that's 13 hours and 40 mins I would have to spend in order to get it. 20 runs with:
- 500g per run from Merch fodder and coin drops
- 500g per run (on average) from the end-chest run (except on the last run)
- 30k(ish) from Magmus' Staff
Potentially 50k's worth of stuff for 13-14 hours work.

So is it worth it? Well, that's a hard call... and I think that being a hard call means it *is* worth it. If it was clearly worthwhile, then people would run it at the expense of experiencing other parts of the game (as we know they - and I, for the very end of it - did). If it was clearly too much for too little, then everyone would shun it and this part of the game may as well not exist.

Of course, there are caveats. For a start, I've just guesstimated that you'll get a 30k+ drop one time in 20... I may be so far off there it's not funny! But I've run it 9 times in total, and gotten 2 green drops (Magmus' Staff and Cyndr's Heart) so equally I could be off the other way.

Also, even if my guess reasonably accurately portrays the drop ratio, there will be those for whom getting 3.5-4k an hour simply isn't a valid use of their time. Well, good luck to them - for me, it's a good figure. I couldn't bear to do consecutive runs there myself, but when I finally build my total up to around 20, I don't think I'll look back on the runs as wasted time. I hope not, anyway!

Now, saying 'Ok, I'm satisfied with it' is, I know, at odds with my previously stated stance - whatever, I've studied it more, made some guesses, thrown some gut feeling in there, and given the whole thing a gallic shrug. Everything still isn't perfect. I worry that you have to be a little too focussed in how you are able to kill Magmus, removing some freedom (and therefore, potentially, some fun) from a dungeon that otherwise isn't as 'intense' as other places of equal reward.

And there is still that CONSTANT PAIN whereby Heroes take a share of the drops but I STILL have to equip them and get runes for them out of MY drops! Acolyte Jin's probably got so many Golds and Greens by now she could build a house out of them! But she still makes me give her my Forgotten Flatbow... *sniff*

Anyway, that turned into quite an essay... thanks for reading, go pour yourselves a drink now and take a rest!

Peace.

HawkofStorms

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uber Mass
I totally agree on the challenge part... DoA makes it a challenge cuz whipe is fail... Did full runs in DoA HM mostly succesfull but some failed in foundry..This part im defo missing in EOTN maybe they add this challenge in HM update soon im hoping for it...

I cant care less for the nerve of HoS chest runs.. simply its a bug like the Slaversbug wich is nerved earlier... So kudos Anet good one now add HM please Still, most people HATE DoA. I mean, statisitcally speaking, the number of people who like to farm DoA is fairly small. There are a few people who like the challenge. Let them have DoA and stay there.
The average player doesn't like the insane difficulty of certain areas that require Vent/TS and an exact wiki copied build to succeed.

GW:EN could be harder, or maybe even add/have one or two areas that are as difficult as DoA. But if they made the entire expansion like that, a.net would anger a large part of their player base.

Uber Mass

Uber Mass

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

The Netherlands

retired from gw [agro] still ftw

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
Still, most people HATE DoA. I mean, statisitcally speaking, the number of people who like to farm DoA is fairly small. There are a few people who like the challenge. Let them have DoA and stay there.
The average player doesn't like the insane difficulty of certain areas that require Vent/TS and an exact wiki copied build to succeed.

GW:EN could be harder, or maybe even add/have one or two areas that are as difficult as DoA. But if they made the entire expansion like that, a.net would anger a large part of their player base. Agree... overall i like the GWEN expansion ofc they nerf some bugs here and there.. And surely i dont want the whole expansion to be hard ^^

Sheriff

Sheriff

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2006

Heroic Order of Tyria

R/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiro Katagari
So, less whining from me, more activity this time - I did the run again (regular party, H&H, just a little before GWG updated the server), fighting my way down like a good honest tomb-robber, and this time I recorded the relevant stats. Thanks for your post Shiro, here's the proof to what I said earlier.

People that used to PUG to do a run, are back to their H/H habits.

If killing PUGs is what ANET has in plans for us, I don't foresee a bright future.


Disclaimer: I'm a 2-account holder with 16+ chars, have been playing GW since 2004 Beta Weekends and it's the first time one of ANET's decisions gets on my nerves...

=HT=Ingram

=HT=Ingram

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Anchorage Alaska

Haz Team [HT]

R/W

Yes Magmus drops a chest, just not a dungeon chest. its a different thing... Thats all I meant. I didn't know gems ever came out of it... I always got a green or gold weapon...

Shiro Katagari

Shiro Katagari

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

The Frontier Wolves

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheriff
Thanks for your post Shiro, here's the proof to what I said earlier.

People that used to PUG to do a run, are back to their H/H habits.
Well, possibly true, but this isn't really proof - I H&H'd in this instance because it was to be a timed test run, so I needed to be in full control If the run itself is still a viable means of earning rewards, then PUGs are still a viable way of doing it.

Generally speaking, a good PUG should always be better than a H&H team. Of course, as Feargal Sharkey once very nearly sang, a good PUG these days is hard to find. Get a decent PUG together, get bonded, co-ordinate your Pain Inverters on Magmus, and you might be able to cut the run down to 20 mins or so, thus doubling the gold-per-hour figure I quoted (aka randomly pulled out of the aether) earlier.

Validating the dungeon run in it's current incarnation doesn't invalidate the use of PUGs with it, just because I chose to run H&H in this instance. It just shows that, should you want to do the run and cannot find a PUG to do it, it's still possible to go the Heroway.

That said, the PUG you join had better be prepared to deal with Magmus...

Peace.

lord dragon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2007

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Davros Uitar
Lord dragon,

Your logic escapes me - is not toughening something up indeed making it more challenging? Did they not then do something you supposedly want to see happen, and to one of your fav areas?

Sorry if I keep seeming to have a go at you in this thread, so I will end that with this post so that you don't start thinking it is personal or anything. It's not intended personally - I find myself drawn to comment whenever I find the logic particularly hard to swallow. Surely you are either against something tougher or for something tougher. You seem also to like highly repeatable things but are against repitition. The only consistency I see leaks through behind the words and implies a tie to rewards rather than the things you argue for (ie less repetition and harder gameplay). That is why I have taken the position I have.

I guess I should stop grinding away at these points.

Please remember...

I must not .................................................. ............ I am not taking as a go at all . Let me see if I can explain myself better.

I like an area that gives me a real challenge and has the reward for that challenge. By toughening it up, it reduced the size available of teams that will do it. This take the fun out of it for me because, I do like to play with people, not ai. That said, I do believe that there are people who do like to play with ai, and there is nothing wrong with it.

Also, with the small reward at the end, it no longer is a viable area for me. I do like a challenge, but I also like the reward at the end when I am successful.

I guess you could say I like to gamble a bit on an area with high damage mobs and high rewards that fit the mobs. With the change, they increased the challenge, but the reward stayed the same and the teams disapeared.

Now, you may consider this selfish in a way, but remember, my characters are finished. No need to continue with armor ect. I have the weapons I want on them so there is no further development needed in the equipment aspect. What I get is usually given away freely to guild members or sold to pay for armor with people coming into the game. When you are sitting on max gold in storage and plenty on each character, it is no longer farming per se, it is just having fun.

Again, I do like teams. They are the reason I play an MMO. GWEN gives neither the risk or reward for me. It is endless C, spacebar for a title I care nothing about. The armor sucks, so no need to farm a title with C, spacebar. The only enjoyment I got from the game was this run as it gave me endless laughs watching people die in the attempt, but still getting something at the end that they felt was worth the time. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time in the game on a consistent basis.

I knew it would come to an end. I could see that a mile long coming. So I enjoyed the time with the alliance/guild that I could.

As for repetition, in DOA, one mistake can cost a team. It takes skill to pull out of a bad situation and not wipe. I don't require people to have certain skills, ect. I don't require that they have a certain title to play with me. Just a desire to have fun. So, with newer players trying it for the first time a lot of times, this is a challenge. It is not the same run each time as things change by players actions that make it exciting.

Compare that to GWEN's C, spacebar mentality, and there is no comparison.

We were told this was going to be a hard area. No hardmode at the start. Have no idea when it will happen. Someday I guess.

We were told 40 new sets or armor. We got reskins.

We were told new weapons. We got reskins.

So, limited risk, no reward equals no fun for me. I figure with the couple of hours of laughs I got with the boss run, that equated to $5 worth of fun. You may argue for a higher amount, but, in my mind that was fair.

I do appreciate your opinion. I just don't share it.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

Zeph

Zeph

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2006

Wales, UK

Expect Extreme Violence [EEV]

Quote:
Originally Posted by =HT=Ingram
Yes Magmus drops a chest, just not a dungeon chest. its a different thing... Thats all I meant. I didn't know gems ever came out of it... I always got a green or gold weapon... Not exactly sure what your on about but when you kill Magmus, a chest spawns and it's a dungeon chest, exactly the same as every other dungeon chest that I have seen. (and I've finished all dungeons, most of them many times)

Hyper Cutter

Hyper Cutter

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2006

Knights of the White Eye [HINA]

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord dragon
We were told new weapons. We got reskins. No, we got new weapons. Greens have always been mostly reskins (or not even that), they don't count...

lord dragon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2007

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper Cutter
No, we got new weapons. Greens have always been mostly reskins (or not even that), they don't count... Actually, we didn't. And greens do count as in any game so far. We didn't get new weapons, we got reskins. Would you like to to explain each one in detail for each weapon and go over exactly what the reskin was? I would be more then happy to oblige.

Don't get me wrong, in other campains this was done some. In GWEN is became ok to do it all for the most part.

Why do you think the greens and other weapons in GWEN are very liminted in value? They look like everything else so the players know it already.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

byteme!

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord dragon
Actually, we didn't. And greens do count as in any game so far. We didn't get new weapons, we got reskins.
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Sword
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Axe
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Hammer
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Bow
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Daggers
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Scythe
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Spear
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Wand
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Staff
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Shield
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Focus_item

You telling me that all the GW:EN weapons are reskins? Everyone single last 1 of them? I'll just pick 1 out of the blue. Amethyst Aegis. Here's another just for fun. Violet Edge. They reskins too? Destroyer Maul?

lennymon

lennymon

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Seattle

Odin's Hammer [OH] - Servant's of Fortuna [SoF]

R/

reskin this: Greater Sage Blade

Sprites

Sprites

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

royaume de la lumi??re :D

LOGW

E/Me

lol ^^ i never thought of running that
and i take a good hour to finish it

byteme!

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord dragon
You did check your links right? All are generic links. Who cares? You didn't answer my question. The rest is irrelevant.

Imaginos

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord dragon
You did check your links right? All are generic links. and each generic link there has a section down near the bottom showing all the skins found in GW:EN. Many weapons have new skins. Sadly the armors are almost all reskins for everything.

lord dragon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2007

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by byteme!
Who cares? You didn't answer my question. The rest is irrelevant. Actually I did. Really doesn't matter now. Headed into a new MMO as I didn't like the GW changes. So have fun guys. May be back for GW2 after I find out about the grind. The good news is there are a lot of MMO's out there to choose from. This is just one of them. Will miss it a little with all the time spent in it. I had my fun, and now have moved on.

Took the advice of someone on the board and took a good look at all there was to offer.

See you in the next game.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

Quote:
Originally Posted by lord dragon
I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me. But if you don't grind, you can't craft things like Spectacles...

wetsparks

wetsparks

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

well lord dragon, I would like to know what mmo you found that had less "grind" than guild wars does.

lord dragon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2007

R/

Quote:
Originally Posted by wetsparks
well lord dragon, I would like to know what mmo you found that had less "grind" than guild wars does. It would be very inappropriate for me to discuss another MMO's name here. This is an arenanet moderated board. It would be in poor taste. Trust me though, there are plenty out there to try and a lot are more like GW proph and the original concept of skill>time.

Please remember...

I must not GRIND. GRIND is the mind-killer. GRIND is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my GRIND... I will permit it to pass over me and through me.

wetsparks

wetsparks

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

So in other words you are lieing out your ass?

=HT=Ingram

=HT=Ingram

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2005

Anchorage Alaska

Haz Team [HT]

R/W

Yea it certainly isnt any of the big 3 in the MMORPG market... cause everyone of them I have guildies from and they all say even with the marginally optional grind that is in GW, its a pittiling in comparison to games like WoW or others... As those games REQUIRE it. GW its 100% optional. If you want more PvE skills or want more options for armor skins or whatever then yea there is some grind for it.. but if you just want to play, Do the grind game on 1 character and get a run assist for other characters so you can play whatever you want, when ever you want, how ever you want... Everything you grind for in GW:EN or NF for that matter is optional... (well except to get off N00b island in NF ;( darn sunspear points, but even that is not too bad in comparison. )

Try that in other games and your toast cause you get to an area and are trapped on all side with no way to get out, cause all roads you are sorely outmatched without the help. And there is no hope of making back where you belong for that level.