Why do people hate Healing Breeze?

isamu kurosawa

isamu kurosawa

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Join Date: Nov 2005

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
But going Prot + Heal on a monk is stupid. U want to max your potential. You have got to be kidding. Hybrid monks are the most effective means of party support currently available.

Guildmaster Cain

Guildmaster Cain

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Why is that? U want to have a Heal Party that has 40 healing and a PS for 14 seconds?

Specialization is better. Just take 1 monk Healing and the other goes Prot. PS can last 24 seconds for instance and HP will heal for like 85.

Splitting attribute points in too many attributes is bad for energy for monks. That is one of the reason why my monk can do WITHOUT e-management. Because the specialized skills are more effective at the same cost. Less often spamming skills = less energy needed.

And dont call me a bad monk, I have solohealed in 8 man parties before with minimum or no deaths. Even after most skirmishes, my energy is still up at 90%. It is all about timing of skills and maximizing their potential. Often the Prot&Heal monks call for energy at these times.
Besides, if you go Prot, what Healing skills would actually be needed? There are lots of Prot spells that heal a quite good, and if you max Divine, they heal even better then a Max Healing spell without much Divine.

Max Divine, Max Healing OR Prot. Maybe take Glyph of Lesser Energy if you need it.

Mike_version2

Mike_version2

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
Besides, if you go Prot, what Healing skills would actually be needed? If your going prot, then gift of health.

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
some stuff... Eeehh, ok. Ok.
I was gonna reply to this but... Not worth the effort. I'm sure someone else will.
All I will say though... All that stuff about solo-healing 8-man areas?
Goes to show PvE is really easy, and really forgiving.

And Whirlwind - you're a fool.
I've played a healer, long in the distant past, while I was still bad at monking. It was easy. Energy wasn't a problem. If anyone can run themselves dry playing a Healing monk... they really need to uninstall, tbh.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Eeehh, ok. Ok.
I was gonna reply to this but... Not worth the effort. I'm sure someone else will.
All I will say though... All that stuff about solo-healing 8-man areas?
Goes to show PvE is really easy, and really forgiving.

And Whirlwind - you're a fool.
I've played a healer, long in the distant past, while I was still bad at monking. It was easy. Energy wasn't a problem. If anyone can run themselves dry playing a Healing monk... they really need to uninstall, tbh. Wrong actually. One of the reasons heal is worse than prot is that it takes too much energy to spam heals.

isamu kurosawa

isamu kurosawa

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
Why is that? U want to have a Heal Party that has 40 healing and a PS for 14 seconds?

Specialization is better. Just take 1 monk Healing and the other goes Prot. PS can last 24 seconds for instance and HP will heal for like 85.

Splitting attribute points in too many attributes is bad for energy for monks. That is one of the reason why my monk can do WITHOUT e-management. Because the specialized skills are more effective at the same cost. Less often spamming skills = less energy needed.

And dont call me a bad monk, I have solohealed in 8 man parties before with minimum or no deaths. Even after most skirmishes, my energy is still up at 90%. It is all about timing of skills and maximizing their potential. Often the Prot&Heal monks call for energy at these times.
Besides, if you go Prot, what Healing skills would actually be needed? There are lots of Prot spells that heal a quite good, and if you max Divine, they heal even better then a Max Healing spell without much Divine. First, you shouldn't need prot spirit to last 24 seconds. second as a hybrid you'd take LoD not HP for a 65ish party heal (and if you have 2 hybrids thats x2). I play hybrid builds and have never needed to regen energy, hybrid builds are more effective on your energy supply as you can more capably deal with any threat rather than covering a problem with just another heal.

A hybrid monk that always calls for energy would do so even if they played a single att line because they are bad players, not because they play hybrid.

Stormlord Alex

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets
Wrong actually. One of the reasons heal is worse than prot is that it takes too much energy to spam heals. I'm talking about spamming WoH and Kiss like the good little scrub I was

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
I'm talking about spamming WoH and Kiss like the good little scrub I was No Breeze? l2bnub

zwei2stein

zwei2stein

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Join Date: Jun 2006

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Maximizing your potentional is NOT having skillbar that says "massive heal" just to fit "massive heal" slot in there.

What you dont understand /perhabs because you never tried it yourself/ is that you do gain more power because of versatility than you loose by reducing two attributes by one and two and putting rest to third.

Basic reason is because you are more able to sync with your similary specced coleague.

two simultanous prots lading on spiked target followed by one heal do same as two prots from prot monk and two heals from heal monk: as result your total pool of energy at monks is 5e ahead if you have hybrids.

its about rational use of energy. if your specialized monk is full and party needs straight heals, all he can do is waste energy on DF healing while healing monk burns trought it and gets headaches. similary, if you need protection and straight heals are mostly irrelevant, same happens in reverse. if you have hybrids, they both use moderate amound of energy and are both ready for next encounter faster because they regen in meantime.

its about worst case scenario where one monk is on ground and your remaining one can still take care of most stuff.

and most importantly: there is not enough of good stuff ot put on pure healing monk bar.

also, i.e. PS does NOT have to last longer than ~10s. prot is not attribute hungry. if will notice it quite soon when you start playing it: you do same job with 16 as with 12 in prot. there is no reason not to put points to healing and get some bars-go-up skills.

Stormlord Alex

Stormlord Alex

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets
No Breeze? l2bnub Oooh, I was never that bad...
Well, I was untill I left Pre...

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Breeze was a fixture on my monk bars for around 6 months. Discuss.

Mike_version2

Mike_version2

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets
Breeze was a fixture on my monk bars for around 6 months. Discuss. and mending wasnt? lolololololololololol

elektra_lucia

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2006

England

Leteci is [sexy]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guildmaster Cain
It has good synergy with Dwayna's Kiss. Ofc that also does with all Prot spells. But going Prot + Heal on a monk is stupid. U want to max your potential.
So for a pure Healing monk, it is not a bad idea to bring Healing Breeze. Just dont spam it on everyone, cos it will drain your energy. But the same applies to PS and SB.

SoA and SB might prevent more damage if you are aggrod badly, but it doesnt prevent -10 degen. So in some cases it is much better to have HB.

In a versatile pure Healing monk build, HB definately should be there. Next to a Ress, Hex remover, Condition Remover, Partywide Heal, and massive Heal.
A Prot monk could have a build with the same abilities, except it cant have Partywide Heal, but Aegis instead for example. Which doesnt work against AoE elemental dmg.

Casting HB and Healing Seed is good for healing tanks, especially with 20% enchantment stuff. It is a set and forget, so you can spend energy on healing other partymembers.

I've played 1 year almost exclusively Healing, but now I am more exclusively Protection. HB is certainly good in specific conditions. So is Infuse. Now can we talk about really useless monk skills?

DONT start about Unyielding Aura, it is the most fun skill ever! Time to teach the noobs to listen to you...
It's stupid? Then how about you look up the spell gift of health? There's nothing stupid in it. Hybrid works well.

OH NOES DEGEN SO I MUST PUT HEALTH REGEN. This is your attitude to someone dying. How about let someone degen by 100 health, then heal them 100? That's better than wasting 10 energy on heal breeze.

Quote: except it cant have Partywide Heal, What is extinguish then?
Quote: Next to a Ress LOL. On a monk :'). Rofl!
Quote: Condition Remover Draw conditions if you have an RC .
Quote:
It is a set and forget, so you can spend energy on healing other partymembers. Except heal breeze doesn't heal for much. It's crap. You will over heal, or under heal. What's with this 'tank' business. Warriors do a LOT of damage. You shouldn't be putting so much tanking crap on them and then 'setting and forgetting'. Unless for very very rare places. People say PVE is so much different to PVP. If the PVE'rs played it like PVP'ers, they would find themselves doing missions a lot quicker and dying a lot less.
Quote:
I've played 1 year almost exclusively Healing, but now I am more exclusively Protection. HB is certainly good in specific conditions. So is Infuse. Now can we talk about really useless monk skills? And in this year of monking, you have learnt absolutely nothing. Good job. Heal breeze works nice against shatter enchant. Go play mesmer for a abit. You obviously don't realise all the counters to your bad builds.

It disgusts me that no matter how well it is explained to people, some just don't grasp the concept. Healing Breeze is BAD.

Quote:
And dont call me a bad monk, I have solohealed in 8 man parties before with minimum or no deaths. Even after most skirmishes, my energy is still up at 90%. It is all about timing of skills and maximizing their potential. Often the Prot&Heal monks call for energy at these times.
Besides, if you go Prot, what Healing skills would actually be needed? There are lots of Prot spells that heal a quite good, and if you max Divine, they heal even better then a Max Healing spell without much Divine. Want to do a 2v2? I monk with hybrid build, or I play melee.

I will give you 100k if you win (not a joke).
I will be given 500 gold if I win.
We play EXACTLY the same build for the melee player (unless of course you want to run dolyak sig and what not, then you can). We pick whatever monk bar we like.

Deal? :] If 500 gold is too much, I'm willing to lower it .

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_version2
and mending wasnt? lolololololololololol The quest to get Mending was too hard for me

Mike_version2

Mike_version2

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets
The quest to get Mending was too hard for me Impossible! Blaspheme!

Railin

Railin

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

I used to dislike healing breeze too. Costume Brawl made me sorta like it. :P Not that I have room in my usual skillbar for it though. Or the attributes to spend. ;x

Nindel Forester

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Join Date: Jul 2007

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(reads title) People Hate Healing Breeze?!

(points at a group of 55hp Monks) whopps they use mystic regeneration :S

Chthon

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Basic reason is because you are more able to sync with your similary specced coleague.

two simultanous prots lading on spiked target followed by one heal do same as two prots from prot monk and two heals from heal monk: as result your total pool of energy at monks is 5e ahead if you have hybrids.

its about rational use of energy. if your specialized monk is full and party needs straight heals, all he can do is waste energy on DF healing while healing monk burns trought it and gets headaches. similary, if you need protection and straight heals are mostly irrelevant, same happens in reverse. if you have hybrids, they both use moderate amound of energy and are both ready for next encounter faster because they regen in meantime.

its about worst case scenario where one monk is on ground and your remaining one can still take care of most stuff. This is perhaps the most cogent argument I've heard for why having two hybrid monks is a good idea. (Usually the "argument" in favor of hybrids sounds more like: "Hyrrid is the meta LOL stoopid NOOB go uninstall QQQQQ!!") However, it's also an equally strong argument against running a single hybrid. What do you do when your counterpart isn't another hybrid, but rather Mhenlo, or Redemptor Karl (ung!), or a PUG monk who can't/won't go hybrid with you? I think you'd want to avoid the situation where you have 1 & 1/2 bars dedicated to either heal or prot and only 1/2 a bar dedicated to the other. You're going to end up burning through your energy pulling double duty on whatever your counterpart didn't spec, and probably doing a poor job at it due to a short supply of recharged skills (which is, in turn, due to not having enough skill slots dedicated to the task).

I might add that this puts the H+H player in a real quandary: Is it worth it to spend two of your three hero slots on hybrids to make this sort of backline work? My opinion on this issue is that the performance gap between damage-dealing heroes and damage-dealing hench is much bigger than the gap between monk (or monk-replacement) heroes and monk hench. So, I try to make do with two hench as often as I can. And, when I can't, I try to make do with 1 hench and a 1 hero specced to specialize in whatever the hench is not.

blackknight1337

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H/H best way is to use heroes for damage, 1 hero for hybrid if you don't play a monk. 1 hero/yourself + the 2 hench monks should be more than enough to keep you alive in NM, if you can monk worth anything.

and since I play monk, 2 x SF and a mm = c+space mode

and if you use healing breeze outside of a 55 build, you need a brain tbh. if you have someone getting degen'ed out, that is why you should have a hex and a condition removal. shatter enchant > HB, and then you are getting degened again and you've wasted 10 energy. gg

oh and any hench can take care of spamming healing breeze or healing other, if you must have a monk doing so. alesia is the worst monk ever

Grammar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
I might add that this puts the H+H player in a real quandary: Is it worth it to spend two of your three hero slots on hybrids to make this sort of backline work? Definitely not worth two slots, but definitely worth one slot IMO, just to get an LoD monk in your party.

I bring Ogden (LoD hybrid) on all my characters, and then Lina as the 2nd monk on my non-monk characters.
This way at least you can have one LoD monk in your party, and at the same time fill in the prot holes left by Lina's bar, namely Aegis, a hex remover, and a second condition remover.
I find Lina to be decent, except that she sometimes casts ZB too much and PS not enough. She's actually pretty good with SoA, SH, and Dismiss, but a little hit and miss with RoF. I'd rather deal with her though and leave my last 2 hero slots for damage dealers.

And no, Ogden does not pack Healing Breeze.

elektra_lucia

Banned

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To be honest, you would be better with healers boon hero if you can micro it. Certainly not two hero monks. Better to keep the other's for damage or such. Best defence is a good offence and all that.

http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...20#post3258620
These threads are as bad as each other. No matter how much advice you give to people, not to bring a ress, they won't accept it. Some will just keep bringing ress, some will just keep bringing heal breeze.

zwei2stein

zwei2stein

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Join Date: Jun 2006

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chthon
This is perhaps the most cogent argument I've heard for why having two hybrid monks is a good idea. (Usually the "argument" in favor of hybrids sounds more like: "Hyrrid is the meta LOL stoopid NOOB go uninstall QQQQQ!!") However, it's also an equally strong argument against running a single hybrid. What do you do when your counterpart isn't another hybrid, but rather Mhenlo, or Redemptor Karl (ung!), or a PUG monk who can't/won't go hybrid with you? I think you'd want to avoid the situation where you have 1 & 1/2 bars dedicated to either heal or prot and only 1/2 a bar dedicated to the other. You're going to end up burning through your energy pulling double duty on whatever your counterpart didn't spec, and probably doing a poor job at it due to a short supply of recharged skills (which is, in turn, due to not having enough skill slots dedicated to the task).

I might add that this puts the H+H player in a real quandary: Is it worth it to spend two of your three hero slots on hybrids to make this sort of backline work? My opinion on this issue is that the performance gap between damage-dealing heroes and damage-dealing hench is much bigger than the gap between monk (or monk-replacement) heroes and monk hench. So, I try to make do with two hench as often as I can. And, when I can't, I try to make do with 1 hench and a 1 hero specced to specialize in whatever the hench is not. Yes, it is still worth it.

for pugs, that pug would still be better off than standart duo healer situation. also, you are unlikely having to do twice as much in attribute that your coleague didnt spec due to nature of fact that you can fulfill role of either side of monking without much strain.

you still gain doubling your monkage in attribute you both specced, but when it comes to attribute only you specced, you are in no reall disadvatange over pure heal/pure prot approach.

for heroes, it is harder, unless you H/F /use heroes with one friend/. I would not use hero monk at all if possible, tbh, but rather pack some heroes with "duality-concept-aware" build. as you said, when henching, you miss damage more than defence, but heroes can bring both to table, so its silly to use pure defensive hero like monk. with some wards and some weakness on enemies, your hench monk can handle a LOT.

only case you want to run hero monk is vanquishing 4/6 man areas, where you do want hybrid because of limited party slots.

matti90

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2006

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Quote:
There's no such thing as a skilled healer. stfu plz.......

isamu kurosawa

isamu kurosawa

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Quote:
Originally Posted by matti90
stfu plz....... not a good idea telling someone to stfu when they are speaknig the truth.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by matti90
stfu plz....... ...

elektra_lucia

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Healers that stand in AOE are less skilled than those that do not.
Healers that under and over heal are less skilled than those that do not.
Healers that use more energy without a positive outcome are better than those who do not use so much energy.
Healers that take an hour to respond and can not infuse are less skilled than those which are fast.

It goes on and on, you're wrong. Get over it.

Quote:
not a good idea telling someone to stfu when they are speaknig the truth. I wasn't aware he did that.

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Not really. He's pretty much right in that it takes almost no skill to watch red bars and heal when they go down.

elektra_lucia

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets
Not really. He's pretty much right in that it takes almost no skill to watch red bars and heal when they go down. Sure, but a healer isn't meant to just watch red bars and top them up when they go down. You're a bad monk if you just do that... That's just the same as saying being a warrior takes no skill because you just press C and hit things. If you play the profession really bad, then yes it won't take much skill to do that.

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What else can a pure healing bar do apart from watch red bars? Preprot with breeze?
Sure you need to heal people on 50% who are under attack over people on 50% that aren't, but that's not exactly hard.

elektra_lucia

Banned

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Go play heal monk and find out. It sounds like you haven't played one before. Quote:
Sure you need to heal people on 50% who are under attack over people on 50% that aren't, but that's not exactly hard. That sounds rather like protecting, looking to see who is under attack. Oh well, guess it takes no skill when the healer does it . Have fun infusing by looking at red bars <3.

Tristan lol

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2007

No point in bringing healing breeze for most typical monking jobs because spike heals are just more useful. Still, healing breeze sees a lot of use on flagrunners and other splitters in GvG. You don't need a high healing spec for it to do what it's intended to do, and in certain situations it is more useful than non-monk class self-heals. The irony is that when GvG elitists pour casual scorn on skills like this, they suddenly wind up having utility in unexpected places.

Snow Bunny

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Join Date: Jul 2007

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibreaktoilets
What else can a pure healing bar do apart from watch red bars? Preprot with breeze?
Sure you need to heal people on 50% who are under attack over people on 50% that aren't, but that's not exactly hard. If breeze had either decreased energy or some other mechanic beneficial to it I'd totally take it as a pre-prot.

Stormlord Alex

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Quote:
Originally Posted by elektra_lucia
Go play heal monk and find out. It sounds like you haven't played one before. Neither have you from the sound of it.
Go on, enlighten us - what can a pure Healer do besides push red bars up (and, with GW:EN, have a stab at removing conditions/hexes)?

Tarzanboy

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2007

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
If breeze had either decreased energy or some other mechanic beneficial to it I'd totally take it as a pre-prot. OMG! The devs were listening! [skill]watchful healing[/skill] FTW!
Wait, it cut the healing in half.
Well it could be used as a cover enchant for Mending!

Limited bar space + over priced + limited healing + enchantment stripping + better skills to put into a bar = dead skill.

Cheers,
TB

Tarzanboy

Academy Page

Join Date: Sep 2007

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Neither have you from the sound of it.
Go on, enlighten us - what can a pure Healer do besides push red bars up (and, with GW:EN, have a stab at removing conditions/hexes)? He can kite!
He can strafe!
He can wand!
He can flex!
He can keep the troops entertained while res chant cycles!

Cheers,
TB

elektra_lucia

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He can put heal seed on the wrong person.
He can infuse the wrong person or too late.
He can over heal people.
He can under heal them.
He can stand in AOE.
He can fake cast.
He can cast normal, and get interupted.
He can pre veil well!
He can veil badly!
He can look at where everyone is, to see if they will spike. Who they spike, or at what time they will spike.
He can watch a mesmer for diversion.
He can watch another player to see if an interupt is charged.
Slower spells on healer, make it easier to be interupted.
He can fake cast so power block doesn't hit him.
He can change weapon to +10 vs X when X hits him.
He can draw the wrong conditions!
He can be delayed about drawing dazed.
He can watch red bars and not see diversion is comming, shame, or an interupt .
He can tell team to pull out when low energy, or manage energy well enough to 'push in'.
He can kite all match, and the moment he stops it will be too cast then gets interrupted, or he can kite, stop, wait a bit and then cast.

TheLichMonky

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Join Date: Apr 2007

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Quote:
Originally Posted by elektra_lucia
He can put heal seed on the wrong person.
He can infuse the wrong person or too late.
He can over heal people.
He can under heal them.
He can stand in AOE.
He can fake cast.
He can cast normal, and get interupted.
He can pre veil well!
He can veil badly!
He can look at where everyone is, to see if they will spike. Who they spike, or at what time they will spike.
He can watch a mesmer for diversion.
He can watch another player to see if an interupt is charged.
Slower spells on healer, make it easier to be interupted.
He can fake cast so power block doesn't hit him.
He can change weapon to +10 vs X when X hits him.
He can draw the wrong conditions!
He can be delayed about drawing dazed.
He can watch red bars and not see diversion is comming, shame, or an interupt .
He can tell team to pull out when low energy, or manage energy well enough to 'push in'.
He can kite all match, and the moment he stops it will be too cast then gets interrupted, or he can kite, stop, wait a bit and then cast. And you have a better chance of a hero doing that than an actual player

Burst Cancel

Burst Cancel

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Join Date: Dec 2006

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All of the things you are listing are generic player skill that have essentially nothing to do with playing a healer. Battlefield awareness is something all good players have, regardless of the position they are playing. Weapon-swapping isn't profession-specific. Baiting interrupts with fake casts isn't monk specific either. Over/underheal is a problem for any monk, as is condition/hex removal, emgt, etc.

The point is, you're answering the question literally while ignoring what the question is actually trying to highlight: making red bars go up in and of itself is generally not a skill-based activity. You see red bar go down, you make it go back up.

There's no point in discussing things in a hyper-literal, nitpicky fashion, especially on an internet forum. What you're basically doing is narrowing the issue down to something that is only tangentially related (overall player skill vs. *healing* skill), and then trying to beat that - i.e., Straw Man.

Spazzer

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I would like Healing Breeze more if it was 1/4s cast and lasted longer.

elektra_lucia

Banned

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
All of the things you are listing are generic player skill that have essentially nothing to do with playing a healer. Battlefield awareness is something all good players have, regardless of the position they are playing. Weapon-swapping isn't profession-specific. Baiting interrupts with fake casts isn't monk specific either. Over/underheal is a problem for any monk, as is condition/hex removal, emgt, etc.

The point is, you're answering the question literally while ignoring what the question is actually trying to highlight: making red bars go up in and of itself is generally not a skill-based activity. You see red bar go down, you make it go back up.

There's no point in discussing things in a hyper-literal, nitpicky fashion, especially on an internet forum. What you're basically doing is narrowing the issue down to something that is only tangentially related (overall player skill vs. *healing* skill), and then trying to beat that - i.e., Straw Man. Nice post. Fail though (sorry). The argument was that playing healer takes no skill. Not compared to other professions. Playing healer takes no skill, period. Therefore it's wrong. It doesn't matter if I named everything which you'd do playing a warrior too. They're still skills to have.

Multiple professions deal with interrupts but that doesn't mean it's not worth while mentioning. Healer monk takes a lot of flack .