Dev Corner: Imagining Guild Wars 2

ArenaNet's James Phinney talks about developing Guild Wars 2

Every great game starts with a simple question: What do we want to play next? If you aren't passionate about the game you're working on, it is already doomed to mediocrity. And the best way to make sure you're passionate? Make something you want to play.

For the team at ArenaNet, the idea of making Guild Wars 2 started with a single conversation about all the things we wanted to do in the next Guild Wars campaign. Very quickly it became clear that we could move the game forward by leaps and bounds... but only if we were willing to rebuild it from the ground up. Here's what we thought we could accomplish:

• Give players immense freedom of movement. The underlying systems in Guild Wars allowed us to make a very responsive, yet hack-proof game, but they also prevented us from giving players the ability to jump and swim and explore their environment freely. We’ll still keep movement hack-proof, but we want players in Guild Wars 2 to simply enjoy moving around.
  
• Allow players to encounter each other in common, persistent areas. The instancing of Guild Wars gave us a ton of story-telling and gameplay advantages over our competitors, but instanced areas and persistent areas each have their strengths and weaknesses. We want to give players the best of both worlds.
• Let players choose from multiple playable races (including our own unique addition to the fantasy genre, the Charr). Our team takes a lot of pride in the look and feel of each of the professions in the game, but some of the early technical choices we made for them prevented us from even considering introducing playable races. Now we have a chance to make new choices that give players more options.
• Give players deeper options for character advancement. We knew this would be the most controversial of our new goals. Could we do this without creating a game full of grind? As avid fans and players of RPGs, massively multiplayer or otherwise, we saw many untapped opportunities for making this work.
• Make everything about Guild Wars better. When you look back honestly on a game you've made, there are always things you wish you could have done better. Could we create a stronger economy with better options for trading? Definitely. Could we address player concerns about the relationship between PvP and PvE? With a new system, yes. Could we give players more and better storage? Yes! The list goes on and on.

Beyond the sweeping gameplay improvements that we are introducing, we also know that any sequel worth its salt needs to show major graphical improvements. Let’s face it, a lot of people love this game because it is beautiful. We fully intend to stay true to the Guild Wars tradition of looking better than the competition while featuring surprisingly inclusive system specs. (And, as a designer, I’ve got some very talented and hard-working programmers and artists to thank for that!)

Even so, not having to worry about backward-compatibility with the original Guild Wars engine and tools gives us an abundance of opportunities to make Guild Wars 2 jaw-droppingly beautiful. At the same time, new budgets for textures and poly-counts, and a whole new bag of tricks from our in-house graphics gurus, mean that every environment, character, and effect we’re making truly looks like a whole new game.

Getting excited about new graphics and new gameplay ideas is only part of the equation for us, though. As some fans noted when Guild Wars 2 was announced, by adding persistent areas and extensive character advancement to Guild Wars, we risked creating another me-too MMO in the Everquest tradition. Plenty of those games already exist, though, and making yet another has never been our goal. Instead, from the start, we talked a lot about the core principles of Guild Wars.

• Guild Wars isn't a hassle to play. Fundamentally, we made a choice to not build a game around time-sinks and inconvenience. Our streaming updates, instant map travel, character templates, account-wide storage, easily removed death penalty, and myriad of core features are all based on this principle. Although some details would need to change, we wanted the sequel to stay true to this tradition.
• Guild Wars lets you play the way you want to play. We've had a few years now of observing our players and their tendencies and preferences. Whether their play-style focuses on exploration, story, wealth, collection, achievements, socializing, PvP, playing solo or with strangers or friends, our goal is to give them a rich and rewarding experience playing the game they want to play. With Guild Wars 2, we'd seek to diversify their options even further.
• Guild Wars encourages skillful play. If you’re going to spend as much time playing a game as people spend playing their favorite online RPG, it had better engage you socially, viscerally, and, yes, intellectually. From the very foundation of the Guild Wars design, we’ve tried to create a game that rewards clever and active play. We’re confident we’ll do an even better job this time around.
• Guild Wars tells a story. We've learned a lot over the years about running events in common areas, and how to get the best effect out of instances. Guild Wars 2 gives us an opportunity to take that knowledge and apply it in even better ways.
• Guild Wars has no monthly fee. Let's face it: one of the reasons that Guild Wars has enjoyed so much success is that people like owning a game after they buy it. They like being able to take a break without a subscription continuing to drain their bank account. They like being able to buy and experience other games, too. Now we plan to bring that same model to a game with persistent areas, playable races, freedom of movement, incredible depth, spectacular graphics, and gameplay that builds on the best of Guild Wars while taking things to new heights.

Yowza. Looking back on what I’ve written, I’m a little surprised at how effusive I’ve been. Thing is . . . that’s just the sort of energy and enthusiasm we’re feeling around the office right now. I believe it’s because all of the guiding principles, lessons learned, and new ideas amount to one simple thing: we are moving forward, making the best Guild Wars we know how to make. And we can’t wait to play it.

James Phinney, Guild Wars Game Design Team Lead

Source: http://www.plaync.com/us/news/2007/1...rner_imag.html

"Guild Wars isn't a hassle to play. Fundamentally, we made a choice to not build a game around time-sinks and inconvenience."

Too bad they went away from that in the "transition" expansion for GW2, and even earlier with SS/LB skills dependent on rank grinding.

Will Loot-scaling be in GW2?

sounds promising.
Well.. at least we get to play the Charr!

I wonder what he has in mind for character development without the level threadmill.

Gaining skills is limited.
Physical change is a possibility.

Theres no way to "power up" without a level threadmill.

Perhaps a classless system would work better for GW's character development?

Cool imagination.

Lets see if they can actually make this happen.

I just dont see level threadmill and skillfull play as compatible.

Besides, what i understand from text is that they do want to add grind, but make it look like its not grind at all.

I jsut shudder what little details they want to change about tuff like map travel. brr.

There's always a gap from concept to reality.

It'll be interesting to see how wide it gets.

This will either be a storke of genious that will have great success, or it will fail epicly. Only time will tell.

Sounds like they are trying to be something for everyone. That concept was one of the drawbacks of GW1

I won't spend a dime on this game untill everything in GW1 is been fixed and added.This is all the nerfs,titles grind it is endless and with no lvl cap more endless grind.GW is suppose to be a casual game no more bring it back to 2005.

They are shifting towards PvE focused, content oriented MMO, which doesn't sound much more impressive than WoW.

Here is the thing: Anet needs to stop listening to who is the loudest.

There are so many fow armor wearing people who who never PvPed a single time and whines on fansite forums, and trying to get all their Runescape and WoW friends to help them yelling out what they want.

It sounds like they have the right idea, for the most part, but I'm still deeply skeptical of persistent areas and lack of heroes/henchmen. Heroes provided greater depth of gameplay for solo players, even if the whole game can be played through by a character alone it's not as interesting as having to manage a party full of skill bars and actions. As to persistence, instancing brought me to GW, all you have to do is look at local chat (yes, turn it on for a few minutes, I know it's painful) to see why I'd rather not have those people intruding on my game experience.

I agree. In fact, I don't know how they can say that since most of the titles are tied to an immense amount of grind. You could argue that Protector is a title that accurately reflects the spirit of the game, and it certainly makes sense from a lore aspect. But just about any other title in the game is an extremely time-consuming event. Sunspear and Lightbringer are pretty easy to max out for titles, but a lot of the others are not.

I guess that it wouldn't bother me so much, but if you look at the Hall of Monuments, almost all of the displayable titles are focused around maxing something or another.

Unless they cut out the grind and stop nerfing for the sake of it then i won't be buying GW 2, the original vision circa 2005 was the best model possible IMO.

I really enjoyed reading that : ) Phinney ftw.

If anyone can make it happen, it's these guys. They really 'deserve' to be a success in my eyes... But then I've seen it so many times before.

The sad thing is I need to believe that these guys can actually do it, that someone 'can' and 'will' push the boundaries. Day by day I see more evidence to the contrary. This industry is truly full of so much shit...

A nice dreamy vision for a future mmo. Personally I predict (yes its too early to tell, just expressing my own thoughts) it'll be really awesome at first (like prophecies), then the nerfs will come. Then come new imba professions with chapters that have a less than exciting/interesting storyline. Then people rage quit. History has long been known to repeat itself. Maybe this game will indeed be different. I'll remain neutral till I've played the beta version.

Trying to please too many people has been the plague of Guild Wars. Too many people wanting too many different things and It all got messed up. I do hope they refine their ideas and stop listening to some people and make the best game they can.

I am for sure going to buy Guild Wars 2, no point in living in the past.

Which they unfortunately must have ignored or gave up on. Every game has had more grind than its predecessor. I'm sorry, but GW:EN is a "game full of grind." And at this rate, and with the talk of possibly no level caps, I have no faith that GW2 will return to their original design of skill over time spent.

I have said it several times before - they should remove class and levels, and replace it with a point-based character generation & advancement system. I would point them to Shadowrun 4ed & World of Darkness for ideas. This would also give them significantly more leeway in balancing skills, qualities, & races.

You got a very good point there.

Yes, I've got a very clear idea of the goals of Guild Wars 2 and what they're bringing to the table. In some way, the team at ArenaNet will deliver the best game they possibly can. As for the grind complaint voiced, that's one of the major reasons they're making Guild War 2: the game was just getting too complex to keep on adding onto (March 07 PC Gamer).

I want to see more solid details, more "features." I know it's still early stage, relatively, but some details that won't change no matter what would be nice. It's my belief that GW:EN was as expansion-oriented as it was, because so much work and effort was being poured in GW2. I doubt I'll be disappointed.

Yes! WoD FTW! Don't worry, the guys over at CCP (creators of EVE online) are working on a WoD MMO as we speak. Depending on how well it's done, I might entirely forego any more GW, monthly fee or not. Their tabletop system is pure gold, at least for a role-player, not a "roll-player."

I like Phinney's ideas, but like many other things - it looks good on paper, but does it translate well?

Also find this a very interesting idea- certainly character development will be one of the ways in which GW2 really has to excel if it wants to offer something special. That system offers some good lessons.

I sounds really creative and promising, I'm just not sure how I feel about persistent play yet. I will definitely be postponing purchasing 2 until I see quite a bit of fan feedback, i.e. the opinions of long-term players who have made the transition, not just any gamers' views. Not because I am disillusioned or pessimistic, I just don't want to ruin my own GW experience.

Very good point...it feels like they tested grind on the GW player population little by little, each chapter was a furthering of said grind experiment. Factions: grinding faction to continue the story, just a little bit though. Nightfall: same thing, but now you have to collect a number of some items for some quests, and introduced PvE skills that rely on SS/LB rank to be as powerful as similar profession related skills that go off of attribute, which is maxed out early on. GWEN took grind to the next level in requiring it to access ALL the new features of the game...new weapons, consumables, and armors. Hall of Monuments displays only the most prestigious items and titles...all of which are grind based. Destroyer weapons only: need to grind to afford them. Need to repeat dungeons or farm money to obtain the gemstones required. New armor pieces that require exorbitant amounts of collector items that need to be farmed for or paid for. These HoM entries will affect the future accounts of GW2. Those who didn't grind will suffer in comparison. Those who grinded will have more stuff to /rank on the casual players with.

in the mix of all that they added titles that made even prophecies grind-based in some fashion.

Enough is enough. Don't pour honey in our ears while at the same time doing exactly what it is you swore not to do from the BEGINNING.

im going to avoid any information prior to release of this. Im not going to preorder, i may buy collectors ed (if available) but i probably will not buy this until a month into play when people are either already sick of it, or absolutely love it. (i still haven't bought gw:en and i will not) The transition from PvP/PvE to PvE is bugging me. In my Honest Opinion, they are slowly killing the BEST PvP and PvE balanced game i have ever played, turning it into another PvE grindfest. Once PvE characters got separated from being able to be truely usefull in PvP i think the game started to fail. PvP'ers have about 4 titles they can actually gain if they strictly pvp. Pve'ers have like 50. So until i get more information, most importantly Players thoughts on the game i will be waiting and not readin.

100% ok with you but I believe in Anet creative power, faith cannot be explained = you have it or not

They will do it, I know it since I started to play GW & I am happy after reading James Phinney.

Do it wtf !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope these ideas translate directly from text to game, but I have not much faith anymore: the reason why I bought GW and all its campaigns was because it is one of the game that has the less grinding, a statement becoming less and less true each day.

GW is simply great! The thing is that its greatness tarnishes even though I would play GW over many other games. Keep it skill over time spent! Keep on the good job, and we will buy this game. Keep the good things, further remove grinding.

Please continue making such great games as GW. But please don't switch to another school of thought, we loved it how it was.

Only my 2 cents,
~Maedhros

Nice to see storage and trade on the upgrade list. Frankly, I'm totally stoked to see the new skill system after their previous references to context-based emergent complexity stuff and stuff. I can only vaguely imagine what they are talking about, but if the guys who designed the GW skill system are hyped about it, so am I.

oh, and Dragonzzz

I think they're doing away with the whole chapter model, hence GW:EN.

I'm really not afraid of GW2, I know the dev team will do a fabulous job.

I think if they continue with expansions, rather than chapters, imba won't be an issue. I hope that is the route they're taking, and I hope expansions are either more 'expandable' or price adjusted.

I am a dreamer....

I still dream of a game that lets me explore the wounderfull environment of GW to its fullest and still has options for adventure and storys.

IF they are able to build a new system to link PvP and PvE, that would eliminate any need for nerfing skills(PvE wise at least) then I for one will love GW2.

IF they can build a persistant world where I can meet freinds and random people while not being overwhelmed by spam or have my loot stolen or my corpse camped, I will love GW2.

IF they can raise or elimiate the lvl cap without forcing massive grind inorder to reach certain areas of play and still let my hard work and time spent playing mean something significant, then I will love GW2.

IF they can do this and more, then everyone will love GW2.

I would imgien they would be grown up versions of the spirit skills in EotN. In that what the skill does depends on what or who is around you. Not just you turn into the spirit of a wolf but maybe you turn into a wolf and your skill set is composed of a combination of your set skill bar and the wolfs basic skill bar.

You could make some interesting situations where you HAVE to turn into a wolf to track down the smell of a dragon, etc. Nothing people with EotN havnt done already.

they'll need to incorporate randomness much better for it to have any real meaning. the nornbear quest was just wrong... you can run to the set positions without the blessing and still clear the quest. more meaningful randomness will increase the fun factor for me..

I brought WoD up because it's advancement is virtualy identical to that of Shadowrun, and it is a great example of priority-based point-buy systems. However, I only play it for the setting & atmosphere - as far as gaming systems goes, Shadowrun Fourth is far superior, although quite similar. Brought up Shadowrun as a prime example for a non-priority point system, as well as how to provide effective balance for playable races in such a system.

EDIT:
Do you know what WoD games will be included in this MMO? The game I'm playing in at the moment is running a combo of Forsaken, Awakening, & Requiem, and I would love to see something similar in this MMO (assuming they are able to preserve the feel of the game adequately).
/EDIT

I think they call it unique because they are based of felines, rather than canines. However, I do agree with you on this.

I've never played Shadowrun, but of the tabletops I have played, I found WoD to be the best system because of how fluid it is. The point-buy system is simply awesome, and I think can translate well to MMO's.

Not much, or rather, hardly anything is known about the WoD MMO, yet. They are keeping it pretty hush-hush, but since the new books came out, they've been pretty devoted to that world and pretty much ditched the old world - which is fine by me since the old world had, dare I say it, too much lore that it stagnated and crippled GM creativity. The new WoD is much more wide open, while still infused with a ton of background lore. I'm willing to bet it will be based on this. So yeah, Forsaken, Requiem, Awakening, and their new one, Promethean will probably be the focus of the MMO.

About the Charr, they really aren't terribly new, but the concept is perhaps new to mainstream fantasy. Ya know, compared to the other creatures they have - centaurs, dwarves, dragons, trolls, etc. On another note, I realize the Tengu are based on some classic mythical creatures, but they are also new to the mainstream fantasy, and I think many of us would love the chance to play one... please?

Sorry for de-railing the thread, but...

Shadowrun is very similar in the manner of dice pools & successes, excepting it uses d6. The main difference is everything is opposed rolls for resistance tests, rather than reductions to a dice pool. Granted, there are some reductions, but those are specific modifiers. Also, weapons have a base damage value dealt, modified by success's, instead of simply adding dice. And you reduce damage taken by your successes on Armor+Body Attribute, instead of armor reducing the attacker's pool. On paper, it looks far more complex, but in practice, it is the most effective and smoothest tabletop system I have played.

Changeling: the Lost has been out for a bit as well. I'm still waiting for updated Hunter...

Kilrathi with horns, then.

It's very hard to be COMPLETELY original in fantasy, though. The Charr are... close enough. At least, despite some similarities in behaviour, they aren't Orcs all over again (just like Grawls aren't goblins all over again...)

What I'm hoping for is a system by which you can choose whether to go into a particular are instanced or persistant. That way, if you want to be sociable you can, but if you don't want to put up with the griefers, you can avoid them.

On levelling without grind - I'd prefer a low cap or levelless system, but it probably CAN be done if they give enough stuff to do while gaining experience so it doesn't feel like grind, rather than just being full of "kill five rats" or "collect five rat tails" - style quests, Fed-Ex-style quests, and general "go out and kill random monsters for no reason until you advance" behaviour.

Ooops, GWEN is already full of the last...

If it ever gets to the point where I can count how many enemies I have to beat or quests I have to complete before I power up, I will no longer play. I have gotten bored of those types of games. Those game only use levels as a restriction on advancement.

Back in 05, does anyone else remember Guild Wars being described as more of a CEORPG (Competitve Online Role-Playing Game) than a typical MMORPG?