Healer's Boon, Heal Party and LoD updates
the Puppeteer
Glimmer of Light replaces LoD in my hybrid build
Ensign
As far as PvE goes LoD is still perfectly viable. It's not like interrupts suddenly become a problem when you go from 1c to 2c. Multiple LoDs stacking better now is a net plus.
Healer's Boon is viable now as well, just make sure that the other Monk is ready to spam Protective Spirit in a tight spot.
Word is strong but the lack of a good party healing option on that character really hurts. It's great in 4 person zones but I don't think it can replace LoD in an 8 man zone. Doesn't combo terribly well with Healer's Boon and one LoD doesn't cut it against harder content...maybe in a 3 Monk backline?
Glimmer is still trash, though I'm sure terrible players will love pushing the Glimmer button on recharge and call that Monking.
Healer's Boon is viable now as well, just make sure that the other Monk is ready to spam Protective Spirit in a tight spot.
Word is strong but the lack of a good party healing option on that character really hurts. It's great in 4 person zones but I don't think it can replace LoD in an 8 man zone. Doesn't combo terribly well with Healer's Boon and one LoD doesn't cut it against harder content...maybe in a 3 Monk backline?
Glimmer is still trash, though I'm sure terrible players will love pushing the Glimmer button on recharge and call that Monking.
Age
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spazzer
No primary monk worth his salt uses Healing Breeze, and this update won't change that one bit. 15s duration is nothing to scoff at, but it's still 10 energy, doesn't benefit at all from Healer's Covenant, takes 1s to cast, and only functions as a Heal-Over-Time.
That's why nobody's excited over the HBreeze buff.
BLight still won't see much use because it's just not convenient enough. It's 10 energy with no returns, and there are better elites available to the Prot monk who wants utility. Believe me, I used to love the skill when it was introduced and I hate to see it shamed like it is. I -want- to make BLight work in a build, but it basically functions as an elite Heal Other with "benefits". I like for 55ing that is.
I don't really know about the changes to LoD although I really like Word is is just a good as ZB.will add more later gtg.
That's why nobody's excited over the HBreeze buff.
BLight still won't see much use because it's just not convenient enough. It's 10 energy with no returns, and there are better elites available to the Prot monk who wants utility. Believe me, I used to love the skill when it was introduced and I hate to see it shamed like it is. I -want- to make BLight work in a build, but it basically functions as an elite Heal Other with "benefits". I like for 55ing that is.
I don't really know about the changes to LoD although I really like Word is is just a good as ZB.will add more later gtg.
Spazzer
Pardon. I suppose I wasn't thinking in a solo monk situation, and I've used Breeze myself in times when I've brought Spoil Victor on my 55.
Omniclasm
[skill]Word of Healing[/skill] + [skill]Shroud of Distress[/skill]
What more do you need in arenas?
Edit: And I really can't understand the fascination with Glimmer. The energy vs heal is not that spectacular. Being able to constantly spam a mediocre 5 energy cost heal isn't really that fantastic. You just quickly run out of energy. The only way it could be viable is with Channeling, and being surrounded by 3-4 enemies, then it would pretty much own face.
What more do you need in arenas?
Edit: And I really can't understand the fascination with Glimmer. The energy vs heal is not that spectacular. Being able to constantly spam a mediocre 5 energy cost heal isn't really that fantastic. You just quickly run out of energy. The only way it could be viable is with Channeling, and being surrounded by 3-4 enemies, then it would pretty much own face.
R_Frost
ive never used LoD in any build that i can think of in PvE. my heros usually ran WoH for a healer or RC for a Prot and i never had problems exploring or doing missions. if they are going to make it cast the same time and slower recharge then the non elite heal party they should atleast make LoD heal for more then heal party.
??Ripskin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Word is strong but the lack of a good party healing option on that character really hurts. It's great in 4 person zones but I don't think it can replace LoD in an 8 man zone. Doesn't combo terribly well with Healer's Boon and one LoD doesn't cut it against harder content...maybe in a 3 Monk backline?
Glimmer is still trash, though I'm sure terrible players will love pushing the Glimmer button on recharge and call that Monking. I was watching vD earlier today, and they basically just used WoH infuser and a glimmer, with an ether prod heal party. It worked amazingly well. I think we can lay LoD to rest for now.
Glimmer is still trash, though I'm sure terrible players will love pushing the Glimmer button on recharge and call that Monking. I was watching vD earlier today, and they basically just used WoH infuser and a glimmer, with an ether prod heal party. It worked amazingly well. I think we can lay LoD to rest for now.
Omniclasm
Quote:
Originally Posted by «Ripskin
I was watching vD earlier today, and they basically just used WoH infuser and a glimmer, with an ether prod heal party. It worked amazingly well. I think we can lay LoD to rest for now.
And....we go back to life before LoD. Oh no.
??Ripskin
I never liked LoD.. I felt like I wasn't being useful unless I spammed reversal.
nechronius
Would anybody switch opinions about the current state of Light of Deliverance if they had only nerfed the cast Time to 1.5 seconds?
The nerfing of LoD does bother me, but the removal of the conditional factor is nice. I'll just have to keep LoD on heroes for occasional use and switch to reversing damage spikes with Word of Healing.
The nerfing of LoD does bother me, but the removal of the conditional factor is nice. I'll just have to keep LoD on heroes for occasional use and switch to reversing damage spikes with Word of Healing.
Snow Bunny
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver
Light of Deliverance = D-Shot fodder.
It'll be interesting to see if the unconditional party heal is worth the change. Less healing, 2 second cast.
Nope.
If it remains as such, I will never play it again.
It'll be interesting to see if the unconditional party heal is worth the change. Less healing, 2 second cast.
Nope.
If it remains as such, I will never play it again.
Grammar
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
As far as PvE goes LoD is still perfectly viable.
After spending my entire day off tinkering with builds, I have to agree with you.
LoD is still the best in PVE, despite everything. Nothing else can do what it does, and the 2 second cast isn't nearly as bad in PvE as in PvP (but it still sucks; it's like freaking Christmas when you get that fast cast). The small loss of healing power is completely made up for by the removing of the 80% condition IMO.
Still playable, still the best option.
As for PvP, it looks like ether prod HP Eles are picking up the slack, which is good, because the monks can't pick up all that slack by themselves.
HB + HP is still bad IMO. Two monks and an HP Ele seems to be the better solution.
LoD is still the best in PVE, despite everything. Nothing else can do what it does, and the 2 second cast isn't nearly as bad in PvE as in PvP (but it still sucks; it's like freaking Christmas when you get that fast cast). The small loss of healing power is completely made up for by the removing of the 80% condition IMO.
Still playable, still the best option.
As for PvP, it looks like ether prod HP Eles are picking up the slack, which is good, because the monks can't pick up all that slack by themselves.
HB + HP is still bad IMO. Two monks and an HP Ele seems to be the better solution.
Mark Nevermiss
I never really liked LoD in PVE. In areas with heavy degen or with strong AoE spikes from monsters, it wasnt enough to recover from party wide spikes due to low heal effect and 5 second recast, and furthermore, you had to be close to your party members putting yourself, needlessly, in harms way.
HB+GoLE+HP is a far superior way to deal with all this. All it takes on the part of the monk is to be vigilant to an incoming spike and precast GoLE accordingly. Then you can cast HP twice in rapid succession healing your entire party in a fairly large radius for about 300.
Not to mention that usually most party members have either enchants or hexes or both on them making Kiss with HB an even better anti spike than infuse.
I always liked HB even when it had the upkeep. It didnt work well on hero monks but it does better now.
Btw I only used LoD with Arcane Echo when I had to use it at all.
HB+GoLE+HP is a far superior way to deal with all this. All it takes on the part of the monk is to be vigilant to an incoming spike and precast GoLE accordingly. Then you can cast HP twice in rapid succession healing your entire party in a fairly large radius for about 300.
Not to mention that usually most party members have either enchants or hexes or both on them making Kiss with HB an even better anti spike than infuse.
I always liked HB even when it had the upkeep. It didnt work well on hero monks but it does better now.
Btw I only used LoD with Arcane Echo when I had to use it at all.
Burst Cancel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Nevermiss
HB+GoLE+HP is a far superior way to deal with all this. All it takes on the part of the monk is to be vigilant to an incoming spike and precast GoLE accordingly. Then you can cast HP twice in rapid succession healing your entire party in a fairly large radius for about 300.
Not to mention that usually most party members have either enchants or hexes or both on them making Kiss with HB an even better anti spike than infuse.
I always liked HB even when it had the upkeep. It didnt work well on hero monks but it does better now.
Btw I only used LoD with Arcane Echo when I had to use it at all. (emphasis added)
LoD didn't require you to be close to anyone. This isn't Heal Area we're talking about here.
If you're ever getting "party spiked" to the point where you need 300 points of healing to the whole party, you have a different and more significant problem than LoD not being able to keep up.
LoD wasn't designed to save you from OMGWTFBBQ damage. It was designed to mop up the stuff that prot didn't catch, and it was damned good for its job.
horseradish
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grammar
The only way that could be seen as utility is if it cleared a space on your bar for an additional prot spell.
In other words, if you ran this: Glimmer, RoF/Kiss, 6 prot spells.
Glimmer is simply not powerful enough or fast enough (even with the 1 second recharge, which is still to slow to chain it) to allow you to carry only 2 heals on your bar. A third heal is still needed, which means Glimmer fails to condense your bar.
As it stands, you're better off taking WoH + RoF + Kiss, since you need 3 heals anyway. Might as well make WoH the third heal instead of Glimmer.
But even that combo is grossly inefficient and ineffective. As Burst said in the above quotation, big single-target heals simply aren't the tool we need. We now lack the tool we need and have absolutely nothing to replace it with.
Who cares that we now have shiny new hammers in our toolbox?
Sure, they're bigger and shiny than our old hammers, but we already had a toolbox full of hammers before. What we really need is a damn wrench! ANet stole our only wrench from our toolbox last night.
I haven't seen LoD used at all today in Observer Mode. It was always an Ele with Ether Prodigy and HP. That replaces the LoD hybrid monk because monks have no replacement. On the contrary, i've seen a monk from vD use Glimmer of Light. They won the match. naturally. It is powerful enough to allow you to bring only 2 heals, for what hybrid monk doesn't bring Infuse Health? That is the strongest heal monks have. Follow it up with Glimmer of Light on yourself and you're good.
You seem to be so focused on the matter of Word of Healing vs. Glimmer and completely throwing out the skill and performance of the player and the entire group!
Word of Healing is a great elite, but as i have said before, among other valid points i have said before, the 3 second recharge doesn't help when more than one member of your party is below 50% health(a likely situation with the LoD nerf), then what would you do? Save one by pushing their bar way up and letting the others fall, or save all three in the same time frame it takes for WoH to recharge?
RoF is not a heal. It's a prot spell that is able to heal, but the heal is not consistent. Kiss is a good spell too, but you also can't target yourself, which as a monk, you will need.
Big single target heals aren't what we need. We need spammable, versatile heals. WoH is a bigger heal, and Glimmer is more spammable.
What we need is a party heal, which Heal Party is the only option. It is too expensive. Give it to the Ele.
Now, for your "shiny hammers" analogy. Yes, it is true that we got shiny new hammers we don't need, but the best one we had broke, and the others are brittle. The new ones are shiny and sturdy. The new hammers are also for different uses. We do have a wrench, but we are not as adept in "wrenching" as an Ele is.
I am not dismissing WoH. It's a great spell. I simply prefer Glimmer. I have no problem switching to what my party needs, but Glimmer works. It is not useless. It has utility because of the great heal and fast-as-hell spammabiliy. Word of Healing has an even better heal, but fairly good spammability. WoH is not fast enough to deal with consistent pressure and multiple spikes. Glimmer is at least more useful in that situation.
Omniclasm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
(emphasis added)
LoD didn't require you to be close to anyone. This isn't Heal Area we're talking about here.
If you're ever getting "party spiked" to the point where you need 300 points of healing to the whole party, you have a different and more significant problem than LoD not being able to keep up.
LoD wasn't designed to save you from OMGWTFBBQ damage. It was designed to mop up the stuff that prot didn't catch, and it was damned good for its job. But if his 3 SF eles stood in the double meteor showers that the enemies cast, LoD couldn't keep up. Noob.
LoD didn't require you to be close to anyone. This isn't Heal Area we're talking about here.
If you're ever getting "party spiked" to the point where you need 300 points of healing to the whole party, you have a different and more significant problem than LoD not being able to keep up.
LoD wasn't designed to save you from OMGWTFBBQ damage. It was designed to mop up the stuff that prot didn't catch, and it was damned good for its job. But if his 3 SF eles stood in the double meteor showers that the enemies cast, LoD couldn't keep up. Noob.
Melody Cross
While I'm very happy to see other elites getting attention, I'm not happy to see LoD broken. Its fairly obvious that whoever is ultimately in charge of skill balance decisions doesn't play monk or understand the class.
LoD is still viable in PvE.
The balance that really caught my eye most (after the LoD skillkill) was Vigorous spirit. Could Anet finally be giving HPrayers enchantments some love after 2 years of neglect? They've a long way to go before HoT can function effectively in combat on par with prot but...here's to keeping my fingers crossed. While I doubt and don't hope that healing will ever surpass it (I'm not looking for a GW WoW) the idea that prot damage negation and HPrayers heal enchants could find synergy makes me a little giddy.
The change to WoH is very cool. High time it was self targeting. The change to HBoon is also pretty sweet. its no longer a trash elite version of a trashier Holy Haste, and HBoon monks can afford to spec prot into their bars and be effective, instead of going full heal and...not...be...effective.. Glimmer? A self targetting Gift of Health means its another ZB; restricted to RA and maybe some split builds but after the initial rush dies down, people will see its not quite as uber as they thought. I'm glad it got buffed the way players talked about and asked it would be. At least now it sees play SOMEWHERE! With proper use of channeling and (I admit it) spamming your behind off, Glimmer is quite powerful in the red bars department. That just makes heal happy monks Diversion targets, not necessarily imba.
GGs
EDIT: @Epic Monkey Battle: I like that build. Ran something very simular in RA during the NF preview and its solid. Recommend you sub out SB for PS. You might like the results.
LoD is still viable in PvE.
The balance that really caught my eye most (after the LoD skillkill) was Vigorous spirit. Could Anet finally be giving HPrayers enchantments some love after 2 years of neglect? They've a long way to go before HoT can function effectively in combat on par with prot but...here's to keeping my fingers crossed. While I doubt and don't hope that healing will ever surpass it (I'm not looking for a GW WoW) the idea that prot damage negation and HPrayers heal enchants could find synergy makes me a little giddy.
The change to WoH is very cool. High time it was self targeting. The change to HBoon is also pretty sweet. its no longer a trash elite version of a trashier Holy Haste, and HBoon monks can afford to spec prot into their bars and be effective, instead of going full heal and...not...be...effective.. Glimmer? A self targetting Gift of Health means its another ZB; restricted to RA and maybe some split builds but after the initial rush dies down, people will see its not quite as uber as they thought. I'm glad it got buffed the way players talked about and asked it would be. At least now it sees play SOMEWHERE! With proper use of channeling and (I admit it) spamming your behind off, Glimmer is quite powerful in the red bars department. That just makes heal happy monks Diversion targets, not necessarily imba.
GGs
EDIT: @Epic Monkey Battle: I like that build. Ran something very simular in RA during the NF preview and its solid. Recommend you sub out SB for PS. You might like the results.
Div
The new HB+HP buff coupled with the LoD nerf bridges the gap between them in PvE. Both are viable methods of party healing in PvE. As for PvP, LoD is pretty bad.
Grammar
Quote:
Originally Posted by horseradish
You say it can, I say it can't. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I just have a hard time believing that only Glimmer + Infuse is enough healing to get the job done. From my experience, it is not. Maybe my opinion will change on this in the future, but for right now I'm still not a fan.
Quote:
I haven't seen LoD used at all today in Observer Mode. It was always an Ele with Ether Prodigy and HP. That replaces the LoD hybrid monk because monks have no replacement.
I agree 100% with you here. Monks indeed have no replacement. Two monks + HP Ele is the way to go now IMO.
Chthon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
Quote: Multiple LoDs stacking better now is a net plus. True. Not sure if it makes up for the heal/person/time nerf though.
Quote:
Holy haste + LoD works well. Hopefully the party healer knows to keep the distance to not get stripped or shattered.|
Originally Posted by Grammar
As I said in my post, the only way for Glimmer to be viable is if it successfully condenses your bar down to 2 healing skills.
I think the entire point of this nerf was to render us unable to condense all of healing down into 2, or even 3, skills on a hybrid bar. I agree that you can't do it with Glimmer. And I don't think you'll be able to do it with any other option either. (Though I'm sure wishful thinking will be keeping 2-3 heal skill hybrids as "the meta" for quite some time...) If you did find a way to get adequate healing out of 2-3 skills during the course of this week (without outsourcing heal party to an ele or somesuch), I would not be in the least bit surprised to see it nerfed when this round of nerfs is made permanent.
mr_stealth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Nevermiss
I never really liked LoD in PVE. In areas with heavy degen or with strong AoE spikes from monsters, it wasnt enough to recover from party wide spikes due to low heal effect and 5 second recast.
I have to agree with that statement. LoD isn't going to be much help when a lvl 28 ele decides to unleash 200-300 dmg on 3-4 players/heroes. I would rather save a couple of them with more powerfull single target heals than heal them all for 70~hp(and no DF), only to have the next hit kill them anyway(if they didn't die during its 2 second cast). LoD is nice for countering degen/mild dmg, but I very rarely find it usefull/powerfull enough to be worth my elite slot.
I've found that Healing Ribbon can be usefull for when several party members get hit with an AoE. Doesn't take up the elite slot, heals for more, cost less then Heal Party, and has a quicker cast. You can cast Ribbon + another single heal in the time it takes to cast LoD/Heal Party. One person gets a large amount of healing, and the other 2 still get more than either full party heal can offer. Its not a full party heal, but unless you are playing alone (all hero/hench) its easy to keep the party spread out enough to avoid them all being victim of the same AoE. This is speaking strictly for PvE only though(since this is a PvE forum). I rarely PvP, so I will refrain from commenting on any of these skills' usefullness in that aspect of the game.
horseradish
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grammar
As I said in my post, the only way for Glimmer to be viable is if it successfully condenses your bar down to 2 healing skills.
You say it can, I say it can't. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I just have a hard time believing that only Glimmer + Infuse is enough healing to get the job done. From my experience, it is not. Maybe my opinion will change on this in the future, but for right now I'm still not a fan. It really just depends on the party as a whole anyways. And it's not like Glimmer is the only choice. As long as we understand each other, gg 
Mark Nevermiss
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
(emphasis added)
LoD didn't require you to be close to anyone. This isn't Heal Area we're talking about here. If you're ever getting "party spiked" to the point where you need 300 points of healing to the whole party, you have a different and more significant problem than LoD not being able to keep up. LoD wasn't designed to save you from OMGWTFBBQ damage. It was designed to mop up the stuff that prot didn't catch, and it was damned good for its job. You misunderstand me, mate. I really know the difference between LoD and Heal Area/Jamei's Healing Circle, but doing Abaddon's mission in NF, I noticed the healing from HP reached further than LoD [this was many months ago]. I may be wrong, but I could almost be certain that was the case. Btw, how does prot catch the damage in areas such as the one I just mentioned? And I could quote several similar ones
Burst Cancel
You specifically said that using LoD requires you to put yourself "needlessly" in "harms way". This is plainly false, regardless of whether HP reaches further or not (I don't know if it does). The effect on both is sufficient that you'll never need to be within range of an enemy to use it.
I think a better question is: how is prot *not* catching the damage in those areas? Specifically what is special about those areas that you need a 300+ point party-wide heal to survive? If you're eating boss fireballs on multiple members of your party, you need to rethink how you're approaching the game. Mark Nevermiss
OK I would like to see your approach at Abaddon's Gate then
Kale Ironfist
Prot stuff, then LoD what goes through. Simple, no?
Sure, the above is just a gross simplification, but it's what you're supposed to be doing.
Spazzer
I did Abaddon's Gate right after the skill update. I didn't even use any of the new changes, I just brought 3 dual boons (you know, smiters+divine). There was a 4th monk in the party and I don't know what he was running, but we were a murder-train all the same.
This LoD nerf hasn't changed my PvE monking one bit.
Burst Cancel
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Nevermiss
OK I would like to see your approach at Abaddon's Gate then
I mean absolutely no disrespect, but Abaddon's Gate is a trivial mission, for the following reasons:- You can stay out of range of everything Abaddon does except Words of Madness. - Words of Madness itself can be cleaned up by LoD. Bring two. - The Graven Monoliths are underpowered monsters because there are only two of them per group and they are far too easy to kill. Their Mesmer aspect is singularly worthless, as most of the damage comes from degen. The Dervish and Paragon forms can be protted through like any other physical damage dealer. - Torment Claws are a potential problem if they spawn at inconvenient times. However, their only threatening ability, Torment Slash, can be easily interrupted with Lightbringer's Gaze, or can be protted through. You can get Masters on this mission in both NM and HM with a 2- or 3- monk backline and any damage dealers you want. Armor-ignoring damage works best, but you can take typical fire eles or something similarly uninspired and still finish in time.
Turtle222
hmmm LoD mesmers perhaps?
mr_stealth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kale Ironfist
Prot stuff, then LoD what goes through. Simple, no?
Sure, the above is just a gross simplification, but it's what you're supposed to be doing. What you're "supposed to be doing" is whatever is appropriate for the situation at hand. In many cases, blindly applying the current popular PvP build to a PvE scenario is not the thing to do.
Sk8tborderx
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_stealth
What you're "supposed to be doing" is whatever is appropriate for the situation at hand. In many cases, blindly applying the current popular PvP build to a PvE scenario is not the thing to do.
Since when? The most efficient PvE builds are modified PvP builds.
??Ripskin
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx
Since when? The most efficient PvE builds are modified PvP builds.
...I use the shock axe build on my warrior...in pve.
mr_stealth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sk8tborderx
Since when? The most efficient PvE builds are modified PvP builds.
There are plenty of situations where the prot skills in a mixed build are rendered completely useless, removed before than can be usefull, or even cause more damage.
There are also situations where prot just isn't enough. Prot skills are great on a tank that is up front with most/all of the aggro, or when an overly powerfull melee monster comes back and starts beating on a caster. But, what about when a couple eles let loose on your casters with a firestorm/sandstorm/churning earth/etc that does 75+ dmg per hit. You can get one person protted to give them a chance to get out without taking too much dmg, but you are still left with several people that just lost a lot of HP. LoD at its max attribute isn't enough to cover a single hit like that, so its going to take several casts of LoD to get your party back to full HP. A monk focused more on healing can get the party's HP recovered much faster. Sure, its likely to cost more energy but thats better than having 1/2 of your party at low HP and easily wiped out by the next AoE. As much as I like prot and its advantages, I also understand that it does have its weaknesses and that it isn't always best to rely on it alone.
Racthoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_stealth
But, what about when a couple eles let loose on your casters with a firestorm/sandstorm/churning earth/etc that does 75+ dmg per hit.
Why is your group balling up when you know you're about to fight an enemy with AoE spells?
Antheus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ensign
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It doesn't change the fact it won't save the group from party wide damage. It's still mostly useful for party-wide degen.
Quote:
Quote:
The entire point of a hybrid bar is to address those weaknesses by not using prot alone.
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firestorm/sandstorm/churning earth/etc that does 75+ dmg per hit
And those hit about 5 times in 5 seconds. LoD, even instant cast, won't save you.
Burst Cancel
The argument that heal could pull your team through meatgrinders that prot couldn't is without merit except in very specific situations such as Mallyx, where enchantments in general are rendered useless/harmful.
As much as I like prot and its advantages, I also understand that it does have its weaknesses and that it isn't always best to rely on it alone.
In an AoE situation, LoD is the strongest healing skill available. Even post nerf, where LoD is only 66 points at 14 attribute, it heals your party for 66*8 = 528. WoH, by comparison, can only manage 236 maximum at 14 attribute, so you'd have to cast it twice for each cast of LoD in order to achieve the same healing strength. Given the now 2s casting time on LoD, the skills achieve rough numerical parity, since LoD is one cast every 7s, and WoH is one every 3.75. Pre-nerf LoD was absolutely untouchable however, at 75*8 = 600 every 6s. Your claim that "a monk focused more on healing can get the party's HP recovered much faster" is simply not credible. Spirit Bond or SoA can, on their own, negate pulsed AoE spells like Sandstorm or Churning Earth. Prot Spirit can prevent 340 damage of a 400-damage fireball that a healing monk would have to heal through with brute force. If strong damage mitigation cannot prevent your party from being mauled by AoE, exactly what are the miraculous healing skills that could succeed where prot failed? Quote: |
Chthon
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
In an AoE situation, LoD is the strongest healing skill available. Even post nerf, where LoD is only 66 points at 14 attribute, it heals your party for 66*8 = 528. WoH, by comparison, can only manage 236 maximum at 14 attribute, so you'd have to cast it twice for each cast of LoD in order to achieve the same healing strength. Given the now 2s casting time on LoD, the skills achieve rough numerical parity, since LoD is one cast every 7s, and WoH is one every 3.75. Pre-nerf LoD was absolutely untouchable however, at 75*8 = 600 every 6s.
Your claim that "a monk focused more on healing can get the party's HP recovered much faster" is simply not credible. I'm not sure who are responding to here, but I'll field this one.
LoD's (potential) healing per energy remains in a league of its own. LoD's (potential) total healing per time is also very good. However, LoD's healing per person per time is craptastic, and this nerf just made it a hell of a lot worse. LoD moves bars very, very slowly.
In fact, at rank 15, casting on the recharge, the new LoD has exactly the same healing per person per time as 5 regen. And you know what people say about healing breeze.... (Heh... I find it kinda ironic that some of the same people who swear by LoD also insist that regen/heal over time is such a bad mechanic they'll never use it...)
Since LoD moves bars so very slowly, you've got two options to deal with it:
1) Prot to the point that bars move down even slower than LoD moves them up.
2) Leave the bars for people who aren't in immediate danger alone and use something with better healing/person/time to quickly push up the ones that are.
(Of course, these aren't mutually exclusive options.)
Now, as for whoever claimed that "a monk focused more on healing can get the party's HP recovered much faster," that is true in two related senses:
1) So long as only 2 or 3 bars are dipping at a time (which is true for a fair portion of PvE play), a dedicated healer "can get the party's HP recovered much faster" than a LoD.
2) So long as only 2 or 3 people are staring death in the face at any given time, a dedicated healer can get the bars that matter "recovered much faster."
I don't think the claim "a monk focused more on healing can get the party's HP recovered much faster" is true in the absolute way it was stated. But the general idea it's trying to express is true in many, possibly most, PvE circumstances. And it certainly is not "simply not credible."
Your claim that "a monk focused more on healing can get the party's HP recovered much faster" is simply not credible. I'm not sure who are responding to here, but I'll field this one.
LoD's (potential) healing per energy remains in a league of its own. LoD's (potential) total healing per time is also very good. However, LoD's healing per person per time is craptastic, and this nerf just made it a hell of a lot worse. LoD moves bars very, very slowly.
In fact, at rank 15, casting on the recharge, the new LoD has exactly the same healing per person per time as 5 regen. And you know what people say about healing breeze.... (Heh... I find it kinda ironic that some of the same people who swear by LoD also insist that regen/heal over time is such a bad mechanic they'll never use it...)
Since LoD moves bars so very slowly, you've got two options to deal with it:
1) Prot to the point that bars move down even slower than LoD moves them up.
2) Leave the bars for people who aren't in immediate danger alone and use something with better healing/person/time to quickly push up the ones that are.
(Of course, these aren't mutually exclusive options.)
Now, as for whoever claimed that "a monk focused more on healing can get the party's HP recovered much faster," that is true in two related senses:
1) So long as only 2 or 3 bars are dipping at a time (which is true for a fair portion of PvE play), a dedicated healer "can get the party's HP recovered much faster" than a LoD.
2) So long as only 2 or 3 people are staring death in the face at any given time, a dedicated healer can get the bars that matter "recovered much faster."
I don't think the claim "a monk focused more on healing can get the party's HP recovered much faster" is true in the absolute way it was stated. But the general idea it's trying to express is true in many, possibly most, PvE circumstances. And it certainly is not "simply not credible."
Burst Cancel
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Originally Posted by Chthon
LoD's (potential) healing per energy remains in a league of its own. LoD's (potential) total healing per time is also very good. However, LoD's healing per person per time is craptastic, and this nerf just made it a hell of a lot worse. LoD moves bars very, very slowly.
In fact, at rank 15, casting on the recharge, the new LoD has exactly the same healing per person per time as 5 regen. And you know what people say about healing breeze.... (Heh... I find it kinda ironic that some of the same people who swear by LoD also insist that regen/heal over time is such a bad mechanic they'll never use it...)
Since LoD moves bars so very slowly, you've got two options to deal with it:
1) Prot to the point that bars move down even slower than LoD moves them up.
2) Leave the bars for people who aren't in immediate danger alone and use something with better healing/person/time to quickly push up the ones that are.
(Of course, these aren't mutually exclusive options.)
That aside, I agree that LoD is not enough in heavy damage situations. However, the issue my post was addressing was whether there are any better options.
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66*8 is a lot of healing if you look at it that way, but 66HP isn't going to save any of the players/heroes standing in that AoE if they don't get out very quickly. More powerfull heals on a couple is better than a weak heal to all that ends up doing no good when they all still die.|
Now, as for whoever claimed that "a monk focused more on healing can get the party's HP recovered much faster," that is true in two related senses: 1) So long as only 2 or 3 bars are dipping at a time (which is true for a fair portion of PvE play), a dedicated healer "can get the party's HP recovered much faster" than a LoD. 2) So long as only 2 or 3 people are staring death in the face at any given time, a dedicated healer can get the bars that matter "recovered much faster." I don't think the claim "a monk focused more on healing can get the party's HP recovered much faster" is true in the absolute way it was stated. But the general idea it's trying to express is true in many, possibly most, PvE circumstances. And it certainly is not "simply not credible." If only 2 or 3 bars are dipping, a hybrid monk is categorically stronger. Against a 400-damage Channeled strike, a healer has to heal all of that damage. A hybrid puts PS on the target and forgets about them, letting LoD mop up the excess later. Hybrids can use Aegis, Guardian, and SoA to reduce a lot of incoming melee damage, rather than simply healing through it - again, allowing LoD to mop up the excess. There's also the issue that people are far less likely to die to huge boss spikes if they're protted - healing must be done after the fact, whereas prot simply prevents the damage. Do you see what I'm getting at? Playing a hybrid allows you to use prots to mitigate damage to several party members and then use a party-wide heal to mop up. In the event that something big got through, you have Dwayna's to move individual bars up at a faster rate. My argument is that there are no (or very few) situations where a pure healing bar would save a team where a hybrid bar could not. The original argument that mr_stealth was presenting was that healing monks are likely superior to hybrids in many situations. You have to read my response in light of that argument in order to understand my point.
mr_stealth
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Originally Posted by Burst Cancel
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Prot Spirit can prevent 340 damage of a 400-damage fireball that a healing monk would have to heal through with brute force.
That is, of course, assuming that you are keeping PS on the entire midline. Keeping PS on 4 players would take 16 seconds and 40 energy to get everyone enchanted, and the 1st PS would be wearing off shortly after the 4th cast. I do this myself in some cases, but I have to choose who to keep protected because keeping PS on everyone is just too costly. IMO, dealing with that type of area is more suited for a bonder and a full heal monk. All the prot in the world isn't going to do anything for the damage that has already been taken. Its a great way to stop additional damage from killing them, but you still need to get them back to full health. A hybrid can get that done, but a healer can do it a lot faster.
DokkyDok
On LoD - Haven't tried it since the nerf, can't say much.
Healer's Boon - Never cared for it, as it would discourage protection usage. And after testing it, I didn't get a use out of it. I wasn't willing to let the red bars drop enough to get it's full use... Glimmer - Love it, ran it with a condition & hex removal skills. Threw in Vig Spirit, Divine Spirit, & CoP just to play around, with Dark Escape & Return. This was in an AB. WoH - Had a hard time remembering it was now also a self-heal, and still adjusting. |
