A Litany of Comparison: GW and Hellgate

I think those two lines should sum up his article enough. He was biased against Hellgate: London from the start because of a pay to play model and he doesn't like randomly generated maps. Quite frankly, if Hellgate: London was backed by the billions that NCSoft has like Arena Net is they might not have needed a p2p model, or would have have skipped the single player and free online thing and gone pure p2p since they could take that risk.

I guess he also likes the "Walk forward 100 yards, turn left, kill boss" experience that Guild Wars has, not necessarily a bad thing, but does get boring when playing through multiple times. Wonder why he thinks people still play Diablo 2 on battle.net for? Because there is still a different map to explore and even though you have the same skills, there are different mob placements, different maps, and always more, better, loot to find.

And the skills part really made me laugh. You want to put that comparison in, when in Guild Wars you have to set up a skill bar of 8 and then swap them around depending on enemies you are going to encounter in a zone to be effective against a game where skills are just to bail you out of tough situation and is more about you, your weapon, and killing them before they kill you? (unless you are playing a caster class, but I haven't tried them out in HG: L yet, still working with my Guardian and Hunter).

I have both games (obviously) and even though GW is larger, and HG:L is buggier, they are both fun games. Most bugs are going to be fixed in the December patch (a rough outline what to expect has been posted) and then those stability issues he complained about will be gone. GW is slower paced, group based, and is about balance (both in weapons, armor, and level). HG:L is fast paced, solo but can be played in groups, and about going out and killing stuff to get better weapons, armor, and a higher level (and please no stupid anti-grind comments on that please, in a game about killing zombies and demons, there is no grind in going out and killing zombies and demons). They are just to different to break down like that and say that one game is "obviously" superior.

hellgate london...i feel like i got scamed with that game, i bought it when it came out...it almost made my computer explode with the memory leaks, ,massive crashes....couldnt see other players in you party, unique items with no stats, and much much more, at least they started to fix them, but still...doesnt compare to what guildwars has to offer..and for free, because in hellgate to get the "hard mode" you need to pay haha

I've been playing HG:L for a couple weeks now, and agree with others that GW wins in the replayability department. HG does have some good points, however. I especially like the feature that allows teammates to party portal to teammates who have already started a quest, and that the environment scales according to the number/level of members in your party. This makes npcs irrelevant, since you can play through the entire game alone, or with your friends. I haven't had much chance to play Nightmare mode yet, but am playing Elite mode with a summoner (similar to necro). I like the armor, and the weapon designs are far superior to that of GW. The titles are kind of fun (I Hate Crates, Wuss, The Great Destroyer, etc.), and easy to attain. The community isn't as developed as GW, but probably will improve over time. For now, it provides a nice change from GW.

Kakumei: The Guardian (to me) is similar to a "tank".

Thread necro, look at below thread.

It's still a solid read, though. Sad that so many ignored it.

Bought Hellgate on Halloween. Was hoping for something that would give me a rush and that addictive feeling that the Diablo series and Guild Wars did. I have played Guild Wars almost since release and when they released GWEN, Guild Wars became rather boring for me. So i turned my sights on Hellgate but in all honesty it rather sucks. Its one of those games that has loads of potential but fails on every aspect. They tried to turn a fast action rpg into a MMO format and it doesnt fit.

There are a number of patches and content updates coming at the end of december for Hellgate. Hopefully it will turn it around. Doubt it.

As far as comparing them, the only thing that truely comes to mind are the instances. Hellgate is all about it just like GW. Hellgate is free to play, however they do offer a subscription model that as of right now is pointless. The subscription model offers Guild creation, festivals and certain items. Other than that, the entire game is free to play. I would not recommend picking Hellgate up in its current state.

Oh, and:

You should read this!!!

i really really do not like the way all these mmos nowadays are getting ppl to pay to play, not in the sense of pay to be able to play, but pay to get the new, the good stuff, the cool stuff, basically everything that makes games unique and cool.... its opening doorways, which later, i believe, will spoil these games...

To the OP. Just a question about your title. You call it a Litany, but as a Litany is a supplication or a petition, asking for help in need or to avert disaster generally, I wonder what in fact your supplication is or if that word was chosen more on the basis of it sounding cool or interesting...

It can also mean:
Probably in reference to the long worn out game comparisons (such as WoW vs. GW), and that it was intended to be a long post.

Still want this game. I need something else to play now and then. This and The Witcher and the two games on my must buy after Christmas list...

Tuoba Hturt Eht's thread was apparently merged with mine, which unfortunately was dead for a month.

I greatly appreciate the support.

arcanemacabre got it right--I was going for the 'long, tedious recital' definition, because that is universally what comparison threads are, especially on Guru.

This isn't accurate--both Elite and Nightmare modes are available to nonsubscribers. Only Hardcore relies on paying.

Edit:

I meant to address this, and forgot. I fully agree that the reviewer in Tuoba's link was incredibly biased against Hellgate to begin with--while I generally came to the same conclusions, his writing and methods were incredibly childish and unprofessional.

Hellgate tries hard to be equal to diablo... they got it.

Problem is diablo is a 10 year old game.

Diablo is 11 years old, from memory.

Diablo 2 is currently sitting at about 7, and I think the LoD expansion is ... 6? Something like that.

It was a pretty good game at the time though, so the model isn't a bad thing to copy. It's just that it needs to be executed properly to work.

I played GW from its release until late September this year, I then started to play HG:L and have not looked back since, even with all the bugs HG:L provides a much more enjoyable experience than what GW degenerated into.

With the release of bug fixes and extra content I see the game being something that i will play for a long time, although i still may purchase GW2 if it looks like ANET has adpoted better mindset.

The only thing Guild Wars competes with
Is nostale, for good fun times.

Horrible game.

I wouldn't install it even if I got it comepletely free. HD space to valuable to use on that peice of crap.

Hehe, this observation almost makes me buy HGL instantly!

I LOVE randomised maps! Played Dungeon Hack a hundred times, why? Because of the randomized dungeons! And the gear hehe.

I know enough players who don't care as long as they can compete. But a good story is always ok I suppose.

Lol! Online gaming does not mean: party up and create some kind of community; That is for communications addicts who play Second life. Online gaming is fun because you can go your own way, and can chose to join a party or not. To create a 'business' model (economy) you need other players. But for playing itself; 90% of the players are causual players who join or leave whenever they like. As an example: it was a BIG mistiake to create AD&D online without making is possible to do the missions alone. Because you can't compare online games with kitchen table games.

Finding gear is what most online players like most. I hope, beg and pray that GW2 will offer more and better droprates. Sounds like HGL does it just fine.

But... I dont intent to buy HGL. I don't like the fee concept for adding more content, and the atmosphere... Too much like Lovecraft (although I love his books). Anyway, the fact that both GW and HGL are developped by ex-Blizzard employers does not make them games of one kind. You don't compare Ultima online with Tabula Rasa either, don't ya?

Well, I have played HGL and it's still a long way away from finished, give it 6 months at the minimum.

Things I don't like: Gear Gear Gear Gear, Stats Stats Stats Stats, No RESPECS, NO RESPECS, NO RESPECS. Game does have potential, But Flagship needs to get a grip and focus their product, as well, clean it up dramatically.

In it's current state HGL is about 12 steps backwards and a several years behind when compared to GW1.

Nothing more mind-numbing that hitting a monster and having it drop 1000 items with 10,000 stats from every orifice.

Can't even compare the 2 games. They are completely different in alot of ways. If any game should be compared to D2 it's going to be Mythos.

Funnily enough, that's exactly what the OP does. And she succeeds.

Indeed she does. Hellgate is just too buggy for me though.

Nice comparison. It was objective, and showed why the games could be compared this way.

The problem for the devs is, by the time Hellgate:London gets the bugs worked out and is able to reset their game reputation, TR will be offering that much more from all the updates, and other MMOs will be coming out(Warhammer, Age of Conan) which are already building good reviews in beta. MMORPG just about had a net-gasm about Conan. I think GW did a good job of showing you need to come out with a solid game out of the gate, and others are following suit by making sure their games are tight.

When some reviewers are calling your game a "beta released as a finished game", you did something big wrong. Sure, most of the bugs will be shored in a month or less, but that is time lost to build a good rep, especially in a genre so packed with options. They could have...maybe...not have had a hard-on for a Halloween release date and instead made it a great, TIGHT Christmas present.

CoD 4 > Halo 3

It was EA, the publisher, that forced the Halloween release date--Flagship wanted to leave it in beta for a while longer, and I really think it would have helped. Once the bugs get fixed, it's going to be a very enjoyable game, but first impressions are -very- powerful in the gaming community, and most won't give it another chance, unfortunately.

They will give it another chance when an expansion comes out, if they don't release it early and buggy. A good expansion, that gets good reviews will peak peoples interest again to help sales. (Also, by then, more people will have computers powerful enough to run it. It doesn't require a beefy system, but you definitely need some muscle to run it.)

Hell, I was lucky enough to recieve a free copy for review from Flagship... I'll not be reviewing it until they release a finished product and i don;t see that happening anytime soon

Sorry but I think the comparison is pointless. Even though item-centric, randomized, solo-oriented, horde-mowing, respec-less gaming is very different from GW, it's still entertaining to a huge population when its done well. (Diablo) Hellgate just happens to be Diablo done badly.

Odd so many people say you can't compare the games....but if you play GW and then buy Hellgate, how do you keep from comparing them? I can say there are things I like better about GW than Hellgate and use GW as a basis for setting the standard I come to expect from an online RPG.

I can say emphatically, and without hesitation: Hellgate is crap...boring, repetative, buggy...I lost a character slot (I only have 2....should have 3) and have gotten no response from their service department. All the maps are rehashed versions of the same thing...randomly generated, sure, but so are the chances of getting heads/tails on a coin (not alot of variety there). The skill tree system seems interesting enough, but there are very few real options to choose from and you can really gimp your character if you don't choose wisely (no refunds).

The online community seems nearly nonexistant at times...you can play a long time without every seeing a single soul in outposts. Chat is virtually dead...except the farmer/spammers.

The mission design is repetative in the extreme: go kill Boss A or 6-10 of Mob B, retrieve item and talk to NPC C. Pretty much it...over and over...no story.

Personally, I can't see how Hellgate got such rave reviews. I bought into the hype, bought the game and played up to level 20. Keep telling myself that I should at least finish with one character, but I find it so VERY painful. I keep hoping it will get better, but it's just more of the same and not very challenging.

Compare away! All you who have played both know that there is a great number of basic similarities....you also know how superior GW is. You can absolutely compare them: online RPG, instanced areas, free to play (kinda), melee-caster-ranged combat styles including Minion Master, relatively low level cap, pretty graphics. The similarities are superficial, but there none-the-less. It's the differences that kill Hellgate...

I will add to Twinraven's point toward the dungeon randomization: It's not too hawt. A lot of areas feel like they're generated from four sections, so it doesn't feel terribly "random." At least it's still a hella cool place to explore.

better to have a little bit of randomness that the same thing over and over and over and over and, for a change of pace, the same thing over again.

You'll tend to compare stupid things though. You'll complain about how Hellgate has no story, makes you grind for items, doesn't offer respecs, random areas are bad, etc. etc. but this all works just fine for Diablo because it's a good game. You miss the completely monotonous and non-threatening enemies, slow gameplay that doesn't require any reflexes, weak sound effects, uninteresting skills, buggy multiplayer, etc. etc. etc. which is really all that is holding it back. You can't judge the core concepts behind an action RPG from a piss-poor implementation of them like HG:L.

You have twenty-four. You only see one empty slot at a time, but keep creating new characters, and you'll see.

Respecs are coming, and soon. Yes, they should have been implemented at launch, but that's one of the major flaws of the game--a lot of things should have been at launch that they simply didn't have time for.

Why, this doesn't sound anything like Guild Wars at all. Or any other MMO, for that matter.

It didn't. A lot of people slammed it for being incredibly buggy, which it was at release--and still is, though the amount of bugs are decreasing rapidly. It's a shitty game right now, but the potential is there--it just needs time, which is something most gamers aren't willing to give.

OK...then: Hellgate's core concept is nearly as awesome as that of Guild Wars. However, due to lousy implementation, the game is almost as fun as Space Invaders with a broken "<--" key. And hellzya I'll complain...

I can't help but compare Guild Wars to any other game I'm playing...

and so far, Guild Wars wins everytime.

Yeah, I'm having the same problem, having played all the top end MMOs, and hybrid MMOs, I've been spoiled rotten by GW. GW not only plays beautifully, the programing just feels solid, clean, problem free.

I'll give Age of Conan a try, and give HGL a revisit in 6 months, hopefully they'll help tide us over till GW2. Call of Duty 4 is amazing if you dig that sort of thing, but has very steep system requirements and will get you motion sick if your comp system ain't up to snuff.

The thing I did like about HGL: very unique non-targeting combat system, very forward thinking of FS, Age of Conan is supposed to have something very similar. Context Attack system, ala Jedi Knight 2, Heretic 2 (a Ravensoft design). Very unique for an MMO Hybrid, and very player-skill dependent, a lot like GW actually, but instead of 8 skills, you have 8+ attacks, blocks etc. that are executed simply by the direction your moving/jumping/ducking when you hit your attack mouse button.

I believe A Net has hinted that GW2 will have some form of Context Sensitive attacks, it will be intresting to see how they handle it.

GW's needs to add a LOT more LOOT content. The kind that only a FEW hard core players can get to so that some people can stand out amongst others as having something you ain't got and not likely to get in your GW lifetime. This Zashien chest thing has practically done the opposite and made so many things that used to be rare and hard to get now just a lucky click of the button. No experienced required. If you just stand in FA or AB you'll get factions points for nothing (leechig of course, but, they do it). This is wrong deadly wrong for the game. Put more things out there not everyone can get. And there needs to be more types as well. This 15^50 20/20 is getting kind of old. I want more +5 energy type gear out there with fire, cold, lightning and ebon on them. I like to run conjure builds, but, there aren't that many elite green items for use that way. Sure I can make gold crap into what I want, but, it would be nice if there were unique greens that were out there to get as well. Something I can get nobody else can. <smile,grin>

Most people like to get candy. But, I don't know many that like to get the SAME candy over n over day n night, day after day, week after week, month after month and year after year. I myself like a mounds bar, but, sometimes I feel like a nut and want an almond joy. That is what GW's doesn't give to it's players. It gives them the same ole candy bars all the time.

lol12charssup?

Maybe I'm wrong, here, but I'm guessing we're both relatively new to GW based on our respective registration dates. I will, however, state that you simply don't get GW. I've read post after post by you that basically amounts to, "please make GW like every other grind fest slot machine game that's out there so I can grow my ePenis".

If you want a game where allegedly intelligent human beings neglect their real lives so they can have something no one else has for the 15 minutes it takes for another no-life to also win the lottery, there are plenty of games out there for you. I'd wager that most people who play and keep playing GW do so because the game itself is fun and you don't have to sacrifice your entire life to getting some neat gear, and you don't have to worry that the guy who does have the elite hero armor and weapon skin can actually do much more than you with your merely standard max stat gear. There's already quite enough grind in GW as it is to please the people who want to earn something, it doesn't need more, and it certainly doesn't need the sort of garbage I keep seeing you request.

This is rather true for me, as well--I've been terribly spoiled by this game.

Especially the interface. Why can't other games have a UI as clean, responsive, and intuitive as this one?

I actually agree with part of this--the variety of mods in GW is somewhat lacking. I wouldn't at all mind seeing new mods.