Nov nerf....oh lord
Cloud5646
Shadow Prison is not the only build that uses those skills, they messed up alot of builds that weren't OP as well... that sucks
Jaigoda
They nerfed my Flourish 'Sin build, which majorly owned in TA, but was hardly a cookie-cutter.
Magikarp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaigoda
They'd better change back HotO or I'll be pissed. I can adjust to the BLS nerf, but seriously, without HotO there will no longer be (viable, non-assacaster) spike builds. If A-net wants to nerf our already few (viable, non-assacaster) builds without giving us any buffs, we'll be headed straight for the Paragon basket. And I'm not sure if I'll stick around if I lose my assassin... I'm sure that if there's another nerf or two on 'sins, they're gonna see a big drop in the population.
And to those saying assacasters are imba, please. Stop. Now, it's one of our only useful builds now. And anyway, my monk can neuter them very easily, especially with the new buff to WoH, which tops off more than 1/4th of my health, and almost half of everyone else's. assacasters are a cheesy build that should have never been.
bls is a nerf that takes out two main stream builds, big deal, and HotO is by far NOT that important. there's tons of other BETTER builds. its still a loss i dont want, but some of you make it sound like you're going to quit cause of two skills being changed.
And to those saying assacasters are imba, please. Stop. Now, it's one of our only useful builds now. And anyway, my monk can neuter them very easily, especially with the new buff to WoH, which tops off more than 1/4th of my health, and almost half of everyone else's. assacasters are a cheesy build that should have never been.
bls is a nerf that takes out two main stream builds, big deal, and HotO is by far NOT that important. there's tons of other BETTER builds. its still a loss i dont want, but some of you make it sound like you're going to quit cause of two skills being changed.
ensoriki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magikarp
what the sin needs is dancing daggers recharge at 15-20 seconds, and its energy cost at 10.
BOOM! If thats not a joke....
Fix paradox , revert dancing daggers power by 1 skill balance (the 1 right before it had its current damage
Done.
Fix horns
Make Shadow prison make all your attacks do 15 less damage on target foe
Do + 1...17 damage (17 = 16 deadly arts) if you critical.
BOOM! If thats not a joke....
Fix paradox , revert dancing daggers power by 1 skill balance (the 1 right before it had its current damage
Done.
Fix horns
Make Shadow prison make all your attacks do 15 less damage on target foe
Do + 1...17 damage (17 = 16 deadly arts) if you critical.
ensoriki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaigoda
And to those saying assacasters are imba, please. Stop. Now, it's one of our only useful builds now. And anyway, my monk can neuter them very easily, especially with the new buff to WoH, which tops off more than 1/4th of my health, and almost half of everyone else's.
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Originally Posted by Jaigoda
please.stop
Sp sin's weren't our only good build either.
Old builds from PRe-Nightfall still work. Exception for those that use Horn's of the ox. Thats why the horns nerf sucks, even if you kill sin caster and SP sins...lots of the old sin builds are dead too. That werent imbalanced.
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magikarp
HotO is by far NOT that important.
Either you never played a Sin, or you [email protected] Figuratively speaking, ANet really went 'Marathon Man' on the Sin this time.
Seriously, have you ever had HotO in your bar!? 
Magikarp
Quote:
Originally Posted by ensoriki
If thats not a joke....
Fix paradox , revert dancing daggers power by 1 skill balance (the 1 right before it had its current damage Done. Fix horns Make Shadow prison make all your attacks do 15 less damage on target foe Do + 1...17 damage (17 = 16 deadly arts) if you critical. thats a really absurd way to "fix" sp. its not even sp thats messed up, its tiger stance. make it last 1 second at 0 str, and done. what is there to joke about as far as what i said about DD? its not getting better, and they wont nerf DP. they should make it cost too much to spam, or make its recharge like 20 seconds... or both. its just too good alone, and the combo is even worse. either that or make it a non-lead attack.
Gambit Shinobi
I suppose ANet REALLY wanted to halt the influx of Sins in PvP (even affecting PvE Sins), eh? Nerf the crap out of us while buffing and/or slightly nerfing only 1 skill from other professions. Makes sense...
ensoriki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magikarp
thats a really absurd way to "fix" sp. its not even sp thats messed up, its tiger stance. make it last 1 second at 0 str, and done.
what is there to joke about as far as what i said about DD? its not getting better, and they wont nerf DP. they should make it cost too much to spam, or make its recharge like 20 seconds... or both. its just too good alone, and the combo is even worse. either that or make it a non-lead attack. its not a huge nerf. the way I just put it makes it so that an assassin is Rewarded for getting a critical hit. And at high enough shadow arts it can even BOOST there damage. The change would have to buff the duration however.
Skuld
And that concludes our thrilling study as to why ensoriki is a moron.
ensoriki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuld
And that concludes our thrilling study as to why ensoriki is a moron.
I agree.
But lets keep the flame bait from the mods.
Magikarp
yeah, be nice. i think we can all agree that something's wrong with the overall change, lets just hope they realize its not fixing the real problems by changing hoto.
ensoriki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magikarp
yeah, be nice. i think we can all agree that something's wrong with the overall change, lets just hope they realize its not fixing the real problems by changing hoto.
Thank you for agreeing with me about HoTo and so forth and such which and purple dinosaurs.
Kaida the Heartless
Another QQ thread about HotO.
The skill was broken. At the most, it should have +15 damage at 15 mastery. I can't believe that people are complaining about the "conditionality" of this skill. Stop trying to attack people that are standing next to other people. This condition is about as easily met as the <50% in "finish him". It's so easily met it's nearly non-existant.
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless
The skill was broken. At the most, it should have +15 damage at 15 mastery.
I can't believe that people are complaining about the "conditionality" of this skill. Stop trying to attack people that are standing next to other people. This condition is about as easily met as the <50% in "finish him". It's so easily met it's nearly non-existant. Okay so you're first stating it used to be too damaging, yet you try to support this by saying the KD condition is too easily met? Do you not confuse yourself?
Magikarp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
this is the first chance I've had to cry about it, pleeeaaase forgive me.
Okay so you're first stating it used to be too damaging, yet you try to support this by saying the KD condition is too easily met? Do you not confuse yourself? lol i dont think he's played a sin bobby. i dont think anyone has ever felt HotO was imba lol Sniffy
I agree with what several other people have said. If they just want to kill the Shadow Prison build, just shorten the length of Tiger Stance unless you put points into strength, don't nerf some of the most basic and usable assassin skills into oblivion. Three of my best builds (all non shadow prison) are all useless thanks to the BL nerf, and another three are pretty much toast due to the other nerfs.
Besides that, shadow prison sins were easier to survive against than the Dancing Daggers combo and they still haven't nerfed that. If they want to nerf assassins, nerf the snot out of Deadly Paradox and Dancing Daggers so you can buff some assassin stuff without fearing it'll be used with paradox stuff (Feigned Neutrality, Dark Prison, Shadow Fang...etc). Unless it's their goal to convert us all to Deadly Arts sins....
LightningHell
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
Okay so you're first stating it used to be too damaging, yet you try to support this by saying the KD condition is too easily met? Do you not confuse yourself?
He means that it was too damaging, and the conditional didn't matter anyway. So basically he means that it was too damaging.
I think nerfing Blades of Steel would've been better.
ensoriki
Quote:
Originally Posted by LightningHell
He means that it was too damaging, and the conditional didn't matter anyway. So basically he means that it was too damaging.
I think nerfing Blades of Steel would've been better. Ah I see. And I believe what you think is better. Omniclasm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
Okay so you're first stating it used to be too damaging, yet you try to support this by saying the KD condition is too easily met? Do you not confuse yourself?
Actually I think you confused yourself.
Person A: X skill is overpowered. Person B: Why is X overpowered? Person A: Because it was too damaging with the knockdown. Person B: But the knockdown is conditional. Person A: But the condition is so easily met that it is non-existent.
Magikarp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniffy
Unless it's their goal to convert us all to Deadly Arts sins....
shhh... just between you and me...
............ i think they are 
ensoriki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magikarp
shhh... just between you and me...
............ i think they are
.....can I be in on the secret =P?Lol look at my builds thing (even if you think they suck lol) None of em were actually affected by the nerf >.> but when I make a DM CS build >.> I find myself complaining about horns...
Bobby2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Omniclasm
Actually I think you confused yourself.
Person A: X skill is overpowered. Person B: Why is X overpowered? Person A: Because it was too damaging with the knockdown. Person B: But the knockdown is conditional. Person A: But the condition is so easily met that it is non-existent. Nice try, but no. Kaida started out saying 'it should have been ...-... damage range', then goes off to rant about the KD condition. Whether you KD with it or not, the damage on HotO is the same. The KD condition has been left as is, the damage is nerfed. Now if he would have explained to me why he felt the damage on HotO was too high, I'd be open to arguments. Instead, the cheeky MM spews nonsense. Let ANet nerf Dark Bond and you -might- have an idea of the impact this is going to have on the Sin class.
ensoriki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
Nice try, but no. Kaida started out saying 'it should have been ...-... damage range', then goes off to rant about the KD condition. Whether you KD with it or not, the damage on HotO is the same.
The KD condition has been left as is, the damage is nerfed. Now if he would have explained to me why he felt the damage on HotO was too high, I'd be open to arguments. Instead, the cheeky MM spews nonsense. Let ANet nerf Dark Bond and you -might- have an idea of the impact this is going to have on the Sin class. How about they nerf, RoF >.> RoF isn't necessary 100% of the time, its not an imbalanced skill (as far as I can tell) But alot of monks use it. Horns isn't necessary 100% of the time, its not an imbalanced skill (as far as I can tell) but alot of sin's use it, alot of assassin's have a template with horns of the ox in it, and not just an SP sin template. Maybe RoF is too strong an example....but theres not much to compare it to. Omniclasm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
Nice try, but no. Kaida started out saying 'it should have been ...-... damage range', then goes off to rant about the KD condition. Whether you KD with it or not, the damage on HotO is the same.
The KD condition has been left as is, the damage is nerfed. Now if he would have explained to me why he felt the damage on HotO was too high, I'd be open to arguments. Instead, the cheeky MM spews nonsense. Let ANet nerf Dark Bond and you -might- have an idea of the impact this is going to have on the Sin class. Except he said the damage was to high. Then he responded to people trying to justify the damage because the knockdown is conditional. craigrs84
The condition on HoTo is not necessarily a given. Everyone quit saying its basically unconditional just because we can shadow step. If the enemy clumps together its useless. Sometimes people dont do stupid things. You can't reliably count on it to do an extended chain where you tie in say falling spider. It's just not always viable, and here's the thing, when it isn't viable, my chain's broken, and I can't just punch my other attack skill like a warrior to make up for it.
Kaida the Heartless
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby2
The KD condition has been left as is, the damage is nerfed. Now if he would have explained to me why he felt the damage on HotO was too high, I'd be open to arguments. Instead, the cheeky MM spews nonsense. Let ANet nerf Dark Bond and you -might- have an idea of the impact this is going to have on the Sin class. |
I mean that the skill was too overpowered before the nerf. It was overpowered because it was used mostly (from my own experience) in Shadow Prison builds, which means you could teleport onto a foe who was nowhere near anyone else, and they couldn't move into range within time (66% slow), so the knockdown always worked.
Before the nerf, HotO had:
1. Good Damage
2. Easy to meet KD condition
3. Knockdown during instagib combo
Now the skill has:
1. Easy to meet KD condition
2. Knockdown during instagib combo
A bit more fair, imho. If you wan't your knockdown, now you have to sacrifice a bit of damage to get it. It's only fair.
I also stated that the damage could be a bit higher than they mentioned, but it still needed to be knocked a bit.
If you expect to have your HotO reverted, ask the Devs to hit tigerstance instead. This will make it so that you cannot activate your entire combo while your foe is defensless on the floor.
Also, I am only monk secondary for a nice Hardres (if I even need one), silly. I run curses. :]
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by craigrs84
The condition on HoTo is not necessarily a given. Everyone quit saying its basically unconditional just because we can shadow step. If the enemy clumps together its useless. Sometimes people dont do stupid things. You can't reliably count on it to do an extended chain where you tie in say falling spider. It's just not always viable, and here's the thing, when it isn't viable, my chain's broken, and I can't just punch my other attack skill like a warrior to make up for it.
Most enemies won't clump together. There are too many threats that outweigh the damage from a sin to be able to clump safely. Many classes have some really devastating AoE. Clumping together also means you can't kite from your said Warrior while he bashes your face in. Therefore, you should at least find a foe somewhere on the battlefield that isn't standing around someone. Punish them instead of wrecking your chain on a group.
BlackSephir
Used mostly by SP sins- cool, but if you haven't noticed BLS nerf, SP sins are dead. What's the point on nerfing other skills like HoTO.
If you expect to have your HotO reverted, ask the Devs to hit tigerstance instead.
*Ding Ding* Funny GW facts. HoTO was fine til this update- it's then when people realized how omg ovarpawored!1 it was. Quote: |
Quote:
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Elite Hex Spell. Shadow Step to target foe. For 1...8...10 seconds, that foe moves 66% slower. All of your stances are disabled for 10...5...4 seconds. If you are in a stance while using this skill, this skill fails.
Why wouldn't this work? I'm sick of nerfing all other assa skills but problematic ones, i.e. SP and DP
fireflyry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless
I'm not 100% against the nerf to HotH, it's obviously been made for a reason, but +11 damage at 15 DM for a dual is a joke, regardless of the knockdown imo. Edit:The obvious flak from most people seems to be simple.Many of us abhore cookie cutter builds and if the devs want SP out of the game fine but there are much better ways to go about it without effecting players like me who used the skills in everything but the SP build. Maybe I'm wrong but it just seems like a bad fix to counter one abused build that many of us Sin mains hate as much as anyone else yet it has effected the whole class and the majority of none SP players. Sloppy.
Kaida the Heartless
I suggested throwing exhaustion onto Shadow Prison. But I know why Izzy doesn't want to... :] Sry,had to go there!
This would require them to bring more Energy Runes (to be able to finish thier combos) and less Survivor Runes, which means they can be taken out much easier, but still pack a really strong punch. At the same time, I like the Lotus change since it promotes more L+O+D and less O+D+O+D.
fireflyry
All this update has done, from what I've seen so far, has increased the amount of A/Mo's running DA builds ten-fold, at least in AB which is my main PvP fix.
Urrrggghhh. I seriously hope they fix it....soon. Edit:Oh and to add the change to BLS does anything but promote L-O-D.All it does is make the skill useless.Seriously who needs e-management as a lead at 10 cost and 12 recharge and who the heck would use such a skill as a lead in the first place? All it's done is ruined the skill and put it in the trash can when compared to other superior and more effective, not to mention better suited, leads apart from the select few who may find a place for it.As a lead...it's garbage imo and seldomly fits in the chain mechanic as e-return anymore.
Saphatorael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless
At the same time, I like the Lotus change since it promotes more L+O+D and less O+D+O+D. Thing is, L+O+D chains just suck. Or you're forced to do a weird combo, ranging from L+L+O+D, L+O+O+D, L+O+D+O, or L+O+D+L. Or just like the old-school AoD sin, 5 skills. And I don't consider that viable due to the nature of it so easily being interrupted. So far I've only found 1 L+O+D combo that actually killed something, and it needed a Conjure X with it. Haven't tried it yet since the Conjure 'fix'. Well, and there was that one L+L+O+D build I also ran once, wasn't that great either.
fireflyry
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saphatorael
Thing is, L+O+D chains just suck. Or you're forced to do a weird combo, ranging from L+L+O+D, L+O+O+D, L+O+D+O, or L+O+D+L. Or just like the old-school AoD sin, 5 skills. And I don't consider that viable due to the nature of it so easily being interrupted.
QFT.
If this new update was meant to solve that it = mega fail.
ensoriki
This is silly but I did it way back (I bet most of you have too)
Illusion of Weakness, Desperate Strike Wild Strike Twisting fangs It doesn't exactly suck >.> But its not wonderful Anyways why am I defending L-O-D right now >.> needs moar buff.
Yanman.be
Make SP a stance
ensoriki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanman.be
Make SP a stance
lol =Pbut uh >.> ummm uh .... Siphon speed+ Shadow step + snare >.> Siphon speed takes exposes spot >.> see that?
Bowstring Badass
Only thing that affects me really is the HoToand BLS(lead now wtf....). Guess I will just run Death Blossom instead of HoTo for my ab combo. [skill]Aura of Displacement[/skill][skill]shock[/skill][skill]falling spider[/skill][skill]death blossom[/skill][skill]impale[/skill][skill]dash[/skill][skill]shadow refuge[/skill]
fireflyry
I run a different combo but posting new builds...at least for me.....is not the point.
I'm getting the feeling that they want Sins to die to prep for GW2. Like fully....die. Well RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO ya Anet....Sin is the only reason you have had my business post Factions. Kill it...cool...I'm off to another game. Such is life.Take care. Cloud5646
This was the wrost planned nerf ever... ruined all my builds.
It was mainly to fix the hero battles arenas but it f***up alot of builds and forms of pvp and pve as well... that's not something smart... I'm in favor of bannin SP build from HB and revert all the skill nerfs... If they don't revert the changes after the weekend I'm quiting too
Saphatorael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloud5646
This was the wrost planned nerf ever... ruined all my builds.
It was mainly to fix the hero battles arenas but it f***up alot of builds and forms of pvp and pve as well... that's not something smart... I'm in favor of bannin SP build from HB and revert all the skill nerfs... If they don't revert the changes after the weekend I'm quiting too ... just make another build? |
