True, there is a limit to how much skills can be tested before release.
However one would think that for every offensive skill added an equal and oppisite defensive one would as well.
Given the large number of total skills this would mean that not every possible counter could be brought by a single team this would mean that any team could be defeated if it hit the correct counter to thier build. This has never been the case as some builds have no counters or counters that will only work vs that one build and be subjected to defeat by any other.
As long as offense and deffence are equal the game is about skill of the player.
While the nerfs and buffs attempt to find this balance I believe the innitial skill creation is where Anet is failing to find balance.
Nerfs are good.
Crom The Pale
Str0b0
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Originally Posted by Yanman.be
I'll keep it short.
Nerfs are good. They "renew" the game. For free. How is that bad? I enjoy GW because having the best 8 skills + best usage == win. I don't care if I have to change those 8 skills every month or so. They force me to puzzle with skills. I enjoy this. Free enjoyment. How is that bad? Flame me. Disclaimer: My favourite class, the assassin, got "nerfed" today. So don't start with "Yeah but you didn't get hit by the nerf bat". This nerf didn't make me sad. Instead, I can make a new, perhaps better "best" build, and prove my worth as best assassin ( and best assassin builder ) once again. |
gerg-nad
You can disagree with me, but I find nerfs to skills are driving people from the game. I also think most of the nerfs are motivated by PvP, and being a member of a mostly PvE guild most of them do not like skill nerfs. In some cases folks have given up on whole classes, since the key skills were diminished.
I for one mostly see the skills go down in performance after a nerf, not always, but generally. Good players are not dumb and gravitate to the best skills or combinations, and when a nerf happens, more often than not it is targeted for those skills, so folks get miffed.
There are so many skills out there I am not sure people say it good for variety. I think the game would be better off with less skills. The number of combination of skills for the typical primary/secondary (assuming about 40 skills in each class) and 7 slots, reserving one for a rez, is astronomical so skill variety and variation is not an issue, 80!/(7!)(80-7)! = 3.2X10^9 combinations. You want skill variety you have it in spades.
I play 9 out of the 10 classes, so talk about variety, GW has all kinds of variety. Nerfing skills and the frequency of them being nerfed is not necessary and is hurting more than it is helping the PvE game, imo.
I for one mostly see the skills go down in performance after a nerf, not always, but generally. Good players are not dumb and gravitate to the best skills or combinations, and when a nerf happens, more often than not it is targeted for those skills, so folks get miffed.
There are so many skills out there I am not sure people say it good for variety. I think the game would be better off with less skills. The number of combination of skills for the typical primary/secondary (assuming about 40 skills in each class) and 7 slots, reserving one for a rez, is astronomical so skill variety and variation is not an issue, 80!/(7!)(80-7)! = 3.2X10^9 combinations. You want skill variety you have it in spades.
I play 9 out of the 10 classes, so talk about variety, GW has all kinds of variety. Nerfing skills and the frequency of them being nerfed is not necessary and is hurting more than it is helping the PvE game, imo.
Stormlord Alex
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Originally Posted by gerg-nad
I play all 9 class
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So... they finally removed the Paragon from the game? *gets party hat on*
Uuhm... train of thought... uhmm...
Ok, right. Basically, I'm in a PvE alliance too.
And I laugh when skill updates come out, everyone's so freakin' clueless
Just.nl
Sometimes i hate nerfs but sometimes i like it 
coz you know LoD that is nerfd hard...Why you should take LoD when Heal Party is better?
Then im hating it
but the other side of the story is:
Healers boon, first it was <1 energy same as mending and that sort of skills.
But now its the sameway as Elemental Attunement but now they got one for the Monk.Then i like the nerf.
coz you know LoD that is nerfd hard...Why you should take LoD when Heal Party is better?
Then im hating it
but the other side of the story is:
Healers boon, first it was <1 energy same as mending and that sort of skills.
But now its the sameway as Elemental Attunement but now they got one for the Monk.Then i like the nerf.
Karmaniac
Nerfs are good because they help preserving the old stagnant meta and quicken the transition to GW2
Nerfs are good because sometimes you're too lazy to fix the problem but want to say you actually did something.
Now hows that for a troll?
EDIT: crap, thread necromancy ftl
Nerfs are good because sometimes you're too lazy to fix the problem but want to say you actually did something.
Now hows that for a troll?
EDIT: crap, thread necromancy ftl
Wildi
nerfs are good/bad generalization is retarded
Takuna
I'd rather not say 'nerfs are good' or 'nerfs are bad' and leave it at that. Sure, I know that nerfs can be very good, like when a profession is overlooked because something else simply outstrips it every way. You can't buff forever. That would be stupid. Nerfind has to be done.
But I'm not going to say they're always good. Sometimes, 'for the good of PvP', there have been annoyances that killed something in PvE. Fortunately, nothing seems to be down for long as there will be other buffs and such.
EDIT: Oh, revival...
But I'm not going to say they're always good. Sometimes, 'for the good of PvP', there have been annoyances that killed something in PvE. Fortunately, nothing seems to be down for long as there will be other buffs and such.
EDIT: Oh, revival...
Jessyi
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Originally Posted by Wildi
generalization is retarded
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Chicken Ftw
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Originally Posted by Jessyi
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phan
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Originally Posted by Yanman.be
I'll keep it short.
Nerfs are good. They "renew" the game. For free. How is that bad? I enjoy GW because having the best 8 skills + best usage == win. I don't care if I have to change those 8 skills every month or so. They force me to puzzle with skills. I enjoy this. Free enjoyment. How is that bad? Flame me. Disclaimer: My favourite class, the assassin, got "nerfed" today. So don't start with "Yeah but you didn't get hit by the nerf bat". This nerf didn't make me sad. Instead, I can make a new, perhaps better "best" build, and prove my worth as best assassin ( and best assassin builder ) once again. |
ensoriki
Belgium bakes part of Yan's ego into every chocolate they make.
Thats why fat people who eat chocolate think they are awesome =P
Nerfs are freaking awesome when they are needed.
I like nerfs when something is overpowered
Or when a certain skill has seen to much play time in order to keep things new.
Of course in that last one, that means it would need to be buffed again later of course.
Thats why fat people who eat chocolate think they are awesome =P
Nerfs are freaking awesome when they are needed.
I like nerfs when something is overpowered
Or when a certain skill has seen to much play time in order to keep things new.
Of course in that last one, that means it would need to be buffed again later of course.
Absolute Destiny
I can understand the need to balance skills in PvP, but why the hell does that automatically mean that the change has to carry over to PvE?
The "metagame" shouldn't EXIST in PvE, and PvErs shouldn't have our skills nerfed because players we will never encounter (because they're PvP only) have found ways to exploit skill combinations.
Nerf skills for PvP-only characters, and skills used by PvE characters ONLY whenever they go to the Battle Isles or the Hall of Heroes.
The "metagame" shouldn't EXIST in PvE, and PvErs shouldn't have our skills nerfed because players we will never encounter (because they're PvP only) have found ways to exploit skill combinations.
Nerf skills for PvP-only characters, and skills used by PvE characters ONLY whenever they go to the Battle Isles or the Hall of Heroes.
ensoriki
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| The "metagame" shouldn't EXIST in PvE, and PvErs shouldn't have our skills nerfed because players we will never encounter (because they're PvP only) have found ways to exploit skill combinations. |
Many games change skills for their pve side (which is also integrated with their pvp)
when a certain skill is far to powerful.
I like gw because many skills change, in fact many of those buffs pvp skills have gotten have allowed pve to farm or have an easier time playing part of the game.
If buffs made for pvp also help pve.
Why shouldn't Nerfs to pvp also nerf pve?
PvE will never be destroyed because A-net will not allow, it so do not worry.
There are also many more skills in PVE that are useful , that are garbage in pvp.
Thus PvE has a lot more choices and has less to worry about unless they are bent on running one build, and one build only.
Also, you should be integrating not being biased.
You should accept both PvE and PvP.
Thats one of the reasons Alliance battles,Fort aspenwood, and Jade quarry exists.
So PVE players would come and casually play pvp.
Also if you want your idea to happen.
Then I want that PvE never receives any buffs to skills that pvp does since you refuse to integrate.
Clarissa F
PVE nerfs.....funny.
I don't see any PvP-only skills.
I don't see any PvP-only skills.
ensoriki
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Originally Posted by Clarissa F
PVE nerfs.....funny.
I don't see any PvP-only skills. |
lishi
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Originally Posted by ensoriki
Deep freeze might as well be >.>
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lishi
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Originally Posted by Absolute Destiny
I can understand the need to balance skills in PvP, but why the hell does that automatically mean that the change has to carry over to PvE?
The "metagame" shouldn't EXIST in PvE, and PvErs shouldn't have our skills nerfed because players we will never encounter (because they're PvP only) have found ways to exploit skill combinations. Nerf skills for PvP-only characters, and skills used by PvE characters ONLY whenever they go to the Battle Isles or the Hall of Heroes. |
ensoriki
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Originally Posted by lishi
PvE need balance too, many people dont realize that.
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Quote:
| you chosed the wrong skill for your example, deep freeze is a very good way to snare some mob so they can take the full pounding of aoe |
uh......Armor of mist T_T
makosi
Nerfs don't happen enough which makes me wonder what Izzy does during his day at work.
Magebane, Augury, Shattering Assault, Toxic Shock need looking at but nothing seems to happen.
Magebane, Augury, Shattering Assault, Toxic Shock need looking at but nothing seems to happen.
ensoriki
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Originally Posted by makosi
Nerfs don't happen enough which makes me wonder what Izzy does during his day at work.
Magebane, Augury, Shattering Assault, Toxic Shock need looking at but nothing seems to happen. |
Elaborate please.
Toxic Shock does not really need anything, the only other choice is to revert it.
Rexion
i like how he used the word "Disclaimer". that was the best part of the OP. yay!
Nerfs, well. Yes they are good. Yes they make change. Yes they caused CC-users to learn to actually make a build. So yes, they are good.
I wouldn't doubt ANet nerfs because so many people use the "WoH Hybrid" build on PvX or the really shmancy MM build.
Nerfs, well. Yes they are good. Yes they make change. Yes they caused CC-users to learn to actually make a build. So yes, they are good.
I wouldn't doubt ANet nerfs because so many people use the "WoH Hybrid" build on PvX or the really shmancy MM build.
reetkever
Skill nerfing is bad because the constant changing of skills costs alot of money.
Also, change isn't always good. Not all people like to change their play style after every update.
Sure, some might like it but not everyone. Aside from that, some skill bars are also needed for certain things like missions or farming. If these are nerfed it is bad. Sure, some feel challenged by the fact they can think of a new working build, but the question is: Why want to make up a new build if the old (nerfed) build worked just as well/better?
Another thing is that some skills just get utter worthless after a nerf. Stuff like Firestorm etc is nothing but a waste of pixel now and can just as well be removed from the game.
For PvP, this doesn't matter cause skills are free, only a few skills are actually used and you can just change skillbars at any moment, though...
Also, change isn't always good. Not all people like to change their play style after every update.
Sure, some might like it but not everyone. Aside from that, some skill bars are also needed for certain things like missions or farming. If these are nerfed it is bad. Sure, some feel challenged by the fact they can think of a new working build, but the question is: Why want to make up a new build if the old (nerfed) build worked just as well/better?
Another thing is that some skills just get utter worthless after a nerf. Stuff like Firestorm etc is nothing but a waste of pixel now and can just as well be removed from the game.
For PvP, this doesn't matter cause skills are free, only a few skills are actually used and you can just change skillbars at any moment, though...
ensoriki
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Originally Posted by reetkever
Skill nerfing is bad because the constant changing of skills costs alot of money.
Also, change isn't always good. Not all people like to change their play style after every update. |
Hes not even playing Gw1 anymore....srsly.
People who do not accept change......are potential racists, and genocidal maniacs.
I don't want Wannabe Adolf Hitlers in my GW anyways.