Should there be heros in GW2 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

vaxmor

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Ascalon

R/

03 Dec 2007 at 05:59 - 81

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexandra-Sweet

I hope they will atleast force people to take atleast one other human player, like they have now with heroes.

I hope that they will force YOU to take atleast one mending leeroy W/MO.

See? Forcing people to do things works both ways. . .

Going to be HILARIOUS to watch you fail a THK-esque mission for the 15th consecutive time because they force YOU to take that W/MO.

Windf0rce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

03 Dec 2007 at 06:49 - 82

No to heroes. Like others have said, I also believe the point of a MULTIPLAYER game is to be played by more than one person, not solo most of the time.

I would like to see in Guild Wars 2 a system like the now aged Diablo 2 uses.

If you play alone, monsters have X HP, attack, defense, etc. Then as other players join the game with you, things become proportionally more difficult, like 2X for 2 players, 8X for 8 players and so on. This way if you want to play alone you can, and no need to be forced to take AI with you because you cannot do nearly anything solo (like current GW).

Playing by myself + 7 AI characters is BORING.

My opinion.

Vinraith

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

03 Dec 2007 at 07:25 - 83

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windf0rce

Like others have said, I also believe the point of a MULTIPLAYER game is to be played by more than one person, not solo most of the time.

Yup, that'd be true if this was an exclusively multiplayer game. Then again, quite a large portion of the community would never have bought an exclusively multiplayer game. Fortunately for all of us, GW is a game that gives players a wide range of choices about how they can play it, not a game that believes it can force people to play in a way they don't find fun (unlike some posters here, apparently).

prism2525

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Among dead bodies.

The Republic of Sky Pirates

E/

03 Dec 2007 at 08:07 - 84

The problem is that the idea for heroes was great in the beginning: Add a good bot in case a human cannot be found.

Only the thing is that ppl prefer bots to actual players, which is not healthy imo. Sure you're gonna get the Leeroy-guy sometimes but it also might be a bit funny and you're socializing a bit (hopefully).

Since ppl are too lazy/dumb/egoistic/impatient or whatever, I'm sorry but even though I love heroes it's better not to have them in GW2.

Isileth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/W

03 Dec 2007 at 08:24 - 85

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windf0rce

No to heroes. Like others have said, I also believe the point of a MULTIPLAYER game is to be played by more than one person, not solo most of the time.

Actually its a game you can play either way. If you want to play with AI you can, thats how it was advertised and thats why I purchased it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windf0rce

Playing by myself + 7 AI characters is BORING.

Then dont. No one is making you play with AI. However there are people trying to make others pug.

No matter what im not going to pug, remove h/h and I will just quit, I know its the same for others.

Quote:

Originally Posted by prism2525

The problem is that the idea for heroes was great in the beginning: Add a good bot in case a human cannot be found.

Only the thing is that ppl prefer bots to actual players, which is not healthy imo. Sure you're gonna get the Leeroy-guy sometimes but it also might be a bit funny and you're socializing a bit (hopefully).

Why is it a bad thing? We purchased a game that you can play with AI, and we are now playing with AI.

And to be honest I dont want to socialise in GW. I come on I want to relax and have fun. I dont want people telling me how to play the game.

Plus you seem to be forgetting that with heroes you can load up and go, not everyone can spend hours at a time on GW, when you only have 30-40 mins spending 10-15 to get a team doesnt make for a good game. With heroes your in within 2 mins.

Then what about people who go afk often? Would you like me on your team when I have to go afk for 15 mins 2-3 times a mission? Of course you wouldnt, and I dont want to inflict that on others. Using AI means I can play the game when and how I want, if I need to afk I can without ruining it for anyone else. If im on at some strange time when no one else is, I can still play. If I want to go do some mission or quest that no one else is I can go and do it.

pamelf

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

Australia

Lost Templars [LoTe]

Me/Mo

03 Dec 2007 at 08:34 - 86

Yes to heroes. People aren't around forever, or even all the time.

wetsparks

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2006

03 Dec 2007 at 09:08 - 87

I voted I don't care. Personally, as long as there are henchman to fill party spots for group required areas I will be happy. If I am forced to party with someone else to play the game, as much as it would pain me, I won't get it. I like to play with other people, but sometimes I want to play GW and be alone and just do my own thing, and there needs to be an option for that kind of thing.

nightwatchman

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/

03 Dec 2007 at 10:23 - 88

Depends entirely on the type of game that GW2 ends up. In GW1 there are many activities that would never happen if you needed to find 7 other players all the time.

What are the chances that you'd find the teams you needed to do cartography or vanquishing for all the zones? Probably nil.

I think a lot of people believe that removing heroes/henches would lead to more people building teams. I'm not so sure, I think that most of the people that play with heroes & henches now, will just not play at all.

wilson

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2005

aggro bubble

[RD];[FW];[GOTS];[baed];[kiSu]

03 Dec 2007 at 10:29 - 89

I don't want any heroes.

Etta

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Mancland, British Empire

03 Dec 2007 at 11:31 - 90

Y'know, for once I would like those Pro-Pugers to tell me a good and justified reason of why people have to put up with.........................(insert your choice of bad pugs experience here) when the alternative to pugs is so much better.

And don't give me "this is an online game, people should be playing with people", I've done that already, thank you very much.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

03 Dec 2007 at 11:31 - 91

I'm prolly gonna buy gw2 anyway, but if I'm gonna play it regurarly will depend on the fact if I can use heroes or not. Pugs are out, heroes are in. Don't wanne go back in time and start pugging again. There will still be a game where 'I can play the way I want': GW1.

prism2525

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Among dead bodies.

The Republic of Sky Pirates

E/

03 Dec 2007 at 11:53 - 92

Quote:

Originally Posted by Etta

Y'know, for once I would like those Pro-Pugers to tell me a good and justified reason of why people have to put up with.........................(insert your choice of bad pugs experience here) when the alternative to pugs is so much better.

And don't give me "this is an online game, people should be playing with people", I've done that already, thank you very much.

I'd rather be able to talk to someone when i'm killing stuff. (apart from guildies and friends)
Also, if the others suck you can blame them. If your heroes suck, then.... well you suck yourself.

Isileth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/W

03 Dec 2007 at 11:56 - 93

Quote:

Originally Posted by prism2525

I'd rather be able to talk to someone when i'm killing stuff. (apart from guildies and friends)

And YOU can.

Dont try and force your playstyle on everyone else however.

Some people prefer to PuG. I fully support those who want to.
Some people prefer to solo. I fully support those who want to.

Just because I prefer to solo, im not going to try and get everyone to solo.
Just because you prefer to pug, dont try and get everyone to pug.

Sirius-NZ

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

Bellevue, WA (I know ... but I moved out of NZ)

Xen of Onslaught

D/

03 Dec 2007 at 12:35 - 94

There's one big problem with PUGs...

...if you're doing something like grinding Norn faction, it's not going to be easy to find someone who is willing to help you through it. To most people, that happens to be really tedious.

DarkWasp

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2005

Paradise

Agency Of Forbidden Fruits [Oot]

R/A

03 Dec 2007 at 14:30 - 95

I would just like to remind everyone on this page that Arena.Net keeps mentioning a companion system.

This would exclude heroes but not AI help.

Check the wiki.

SimonSez

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2007

Sweden

Special Attack Division [SAD]

E/Mo

03 Dec 2007 at 14:33 - 96

I would suggest, that you will get heroes. But not until you have finished the game. There could be like a scenario that they think you done a good job, and that they will assist you in future advantures.

Isileth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/W

03 Dec 2007 at 14:37 - 97

Quote:

Originally Posted by SimonSez

I would suggest, that you will get heroes. But not until you have finished the game. There could be like a scenario that they think you done a good job, and that they will assist you in future advantures.

Again trying to force people into pugging.

Why cant people just let others play how they want?

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

03 Dec 2007 at 14:44 - 98

My guess is GW2 will use a system similar to D2: a single, customizable hero-like AI that serves as your 'right-hand-man.' If so, then that probably means the content will scale up like in D2, and be fully soloable, or become harder when there are more people in a party (more mobs, higher difficulty, etc). Something like that would be fine with me.

Balan Makki

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

03 Dec 2007 at 14:51 - 99

I'd rather see something like this, as posted in GW2 suggestion thread:

Quote:

Heroic Guild Mates -- If there be companions, heroes, make them guild-mates heroes/companions. You can only increase the size of your A.I. controlled party by selecting an inactive, recently played, character from your guild roster -- instead of heroes, you need to use offline guild members. If you want to run an area but can't find enough people to help, then you choose one of your guild-mates (maybe even their alts?) as the Hero/Henchmen to help you through your adventure. Add an offline time-limit a guildie can be used as a hero, like a month or something. When you log in while someone is using your character as a hero, you begin in Observation Mode, then you can just take control and continue the journey, or gracefully bow-out, leaving behind a surrogate, returning to where you logged off. Entering the game-world, and then breaking the ice with alde acquaintances, can sometimes take more time than playing the game. Builds and skill would work the same as GW1: what you have unlocked you can use. This concept could be used for GW1 to increase the number of A.I. controlled party members beyond the current limit.

Though, I would guess that instancing, and certain questing will dynamically adjust to the party size, player ability etc. meaning that you can solo just about anything.

Vinraith

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

03 Dec 2007 at 14:52 - 100

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

My guess is GW2 will use a system similar to D2: a single, customizable hero-like AI that serves as your 'right-hand-man.' If so, then that probably means the content will scale up like in D2, and be fully soloable, or become harder when there are more people in a party (more mobs, higher difficulty, etc). Something like that would be fine with me.

All of that seems to fit the available information except for the declarations of persistent explorable areas. How can an area be persistent AND scaled?

Regardless, while I'm ok with the D2 design it's a marked step down from GW1, where you had a full party dynamic to manage with heroes. I don't delude myself by thinking they're going to change their minds, Anet's notoriously hard headed in regards to this subject, but an expansion of the existing heroes system would have been the superior design choice IMO regardless of the whiny "why don't people play with me" crowd. The reality is this is yet another concession to the people that want to turn this game into a full blown fee-free MMO, and if that's the drive behind designing the game I can't imagine that the net result is going to be worth playing.

Vinraith

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

03 Dec 2007 at 14:53 - 101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

I'd rather see something like this, as posted in GW2 suggestion thread:

Though my guess is that instancing, and certain questing will dynamically adjust to the party size, player ability etc.

So those of us in small guilds can go screw ourselves, basically. That's nice.

Lexar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

Organised Spam

W/

03 Dec 2007 at 14:54 - 102

Trying to make a team so you can play with other people has become almost impossible in average missions now because everyone will be sitting around with an '8' above their heads and not say a word to each other. They often won't even read local chat. And then if you end up playing by yourself because everyone is too afraid of running the risk of having a poor player on their team (oh noes), so they prefer to go hero-henchie-way. Guildwars is a fun game but if you play it by yourself, then it's simply not as good, or as deep as other single player rpg's.

So no heroes in GW2 please, I would like to play that game with other people, also people I've never met before. Isn't that why we all play mmo's? Maybe the ability of adding a maximum of 2 AI characters in a full team just to make it easier to make balanced teams (usually monks or maybe nukers) would be desirable.

Isileth

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

R/W

03 Dec 2007 at 14:58 - 103

Lexar just because you find something fun doesnt mean the rest of us do.
You are welcome to pug however, but those people who dont want to, dont try and make them just so you have someone to play with.

If GW had no solo play support I wouldnt play. Not everyone plays for the same reasons.

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

03 Dec 2007 at 15:19 - 104

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

All of that seems to fit the available information except for the declarations of persistent explorable areas. How can an area be persistent AND scaled?

From what I understand, the majority of the game, and especially any area that is required to play through the story (missions/primary quests) will remain instanced. They have only stated that they are "adding" persistent zones, as in there will be zones that are persistent, not the entire game. Those zones may favor players who wish to party, but I bet they will be entirely optional.

Str0b0

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Carolina

N/Me

03 Dec 2007 at 15:24 - 105

I assume there will still be bad players with even worse skill bars in GW2 so yeah give me heroes please.

Balan Makki

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

03 Dec 2007 at 15:42 - 106

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinraith

So those of us in small guilds can go screw ourselves, basically. That's nice.

. . . only if you enjoy that sort of thing.

But giving players a reason to Guild in Guild Wars makes more sense, as well you no longer have to worry about Heroes/Henchmen. Small guilds will likely be a player with two accounts, pretending to be a guild. Sure this creates a much more dynamic migrations of players, the disbanding, consolidation, alliances etc.

Guilds will be far more robust in GW2 if A-Net continues with the "Guild Wars" title theme.

But yeah, if you're small and you like to play with yourself then that could be an option as well.

Stockholm

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2006

Censored

R/

03 Dec 2007 at 15:59 - 107

Quote:

Originally Posted by Balan Makki

. . . only if you enjoy that sort of thing.

But giving players a reason to Guild in Guild Wars makes more sense, as well you no longer have to worry about Heroes/Henchmen. Small guilds will likely be a player with two accounts, pretending to be a guild. Sure this creates a much more dynamic migrations of players, the disbanding, consolidation, alliances etc.

Guilds will be far more robust in GW2 if A-Net continues with the "Guild Wars" title theme.

But yeah, if you're small and you like to play with yourself then that could be an option as well.

The reson a lot of players have their own guilds is that they don't want to join a guild run by some mini dictator, or they are just feed up with being PM'd every time they enter a town, by guildrecruters. And guilds change over time, so having a small guild is 1 way of being left alone. You can still join friends from other guilds for missions and such.

Balan Makki

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

03 Dec 2007 at 16:28 - 108

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

The reson a lot of players have their own guilds is that they don't want to join a guild run by some mini dictator, or they are just feed up with being PM'd every time they enter a town, by guildrecruters. And guilds change over time, so having a small guild is 1 way of being left alone. You can still join friends from other guilds for missions and such.

Good point, as I've also done this very thing. I guess there could be many ways to encourage players to play together, but as well, allow players to solo alone if they like -- much of the GW appeal currently. Modify my previous suggestion to include: all player created characters, alts etc. for smaller and one-man guilds, but then everyone would be a one-man guild with scantily dressed alts.

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

03 Dec 2007 at 16:51 - 109

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lexar

So no heroes in GW2 please, I would like to play that game with other people, also people I've never met before. Isn't that why we all play mmo's?

Now that's just getting old. Maybe you wanted to pick WoW instead of GW?

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

03 Dec 2007 at 16:55 - 110

Still waiting to hear a good, constructive reason why heroes should not be in GW2 other then "This is an MMO, you have to play with others" or "I don't like playing with heroes so nobody else should be able to".

Mordakai

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2005

Kyhlo

W/

03 Dec 2007 at 18:11 - 111

From what I've read, which is subject to change of course, GW2 will not have Heroes.

It sounds like GW2 will be possible to solo (the Companion I don't understand, the PCgamer article says they are optiional, and your character will be buffed if they choose not to take a Companion, so it remains to be seen how effective they will be).

Honestly, I think Heroes have complicated the game. You have some players who have unlocked every skill and are masters at creating Party Builds to roll through any challenge... then you have others whose heroes still have there original Lev 3 weapons from Nightfall!

Personally, I like just focusing on one character and not worrying about 10 X 13 Heroes (10 heroes, 13 characters) to equip, make builds for, etc. So, if GW2 doesn't have Heroes, I won't mind a bit.

Arkantos, to your point, MMORPGS are competitive by nature, even though Guild Wars does not have to be. Thus, even though I don't have to have Heros, I feel like I do, if that makes sense. And then I want to equip them all with max weapons (thank goodness for /bonus weapons) and unlock more Elites for them to use. Which, on the positive side, has expanded my game. On the negative side, sometimes I just want to go out without checking to make sure all my Heroes are good to go. This is especially annoying in Nightfall, where you have to have certain Heroes in your group, so they are NOT optional.

My conditions for allowing Heros in GW2:

Their starter weapons would grow in levels as they do, like armor.

There would be a way to swap Runes without salvaging.

Maybe Heros should be account based in GW2, so once I get a fully equipped Kos, for example, he'll be the same no matter what Character I choose.

They should never be required.

Of course, without knowing the details of GW2 (there might not even be Runes, for example), it's hard to speculate, but you get the basic idea: Right now, Heroes are too complex to manage over mutiple characters, IMO. Fix that in GW2, and I'm all for it: Who knows, maybe that's what they're planning for Companions?!?

Another Felldspar

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2006

Alchemy Incorporated

Mo/E

03 Dec 2007 at 18:25 - 112

I play Guild Wars a lot. Usually I play with a buddy and we both take heroes. Oftentimes I play with my buddy and one or more guildies -- then we all put in heroes to fill the empty slots that are left. Sometimes I play with allies, and generally if a call goes out on alliance every spot in the team will be filled with a human. Very rarely I play with PUGS, although I have almost always enjoyed the experience when it happens. Once in a great while -- almost never -- I use only heroes/hench. The point is that the same person might choose to play in different ways at different times. Sometimes with people, sometimes alone, sometimes with strangers, sometimes with friends... Limiting any of that is pointless, and yes, offering only henchie AI instead of customizable AI is limiting since it decreases the success possibilities of a party of one. Options are good and there should be as many as possible, considering only the mechanics of the game engine. Options should not be limited to what Joe Blow wants to enforce on other players because of the way that Joe enjoys playing. We shouldn't HAVE to group everytime; yet we should have the OPPORTUNITY to group EVERYTIME.

bpphantom

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Canukistan

The Eyes of Ashtabula [Eyes]

03 Dec 2007 at 18:30 - 113

From what I've read - and I'm sure others have as well based on the answers I've read here - you may choose to have a companion (hench/hero) with you in GW2. If you opt not to take them with you, you gain certain other benefits.

From what I hear, I like GW2.

artay

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2006

Australia

The Agony Scene

E/

03 Dec 2007 at 21:13 - 114

I play the game to have fun with my friends, so I don't care if they add heroes or not, even so isn't it a tad early to discuss? We can always speculate.

Diddy bow

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2006

Jawsome!!!!!!!!!!!

looking for one :p

A/D

03 Dec 2007 at 21:37 - 115

No heroes was fine at the start when there were accually groups in pvp for anythign other than elite areas. And lets face it now days the people who would hero it would just hench it. I suppose its worth a try in GW2 without heroes for a bit but as the game becomes more streched they will be needed. Nothign wrong with the choice.

But isnt GW2 gonna be completly diffrent? Wait and see

.

arcady

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

San Francisco native

Mo/P

03 Dec 2007 at 22:38 - 116

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

Lexar just because you find something fun doesnt mean the rest of us do.

If GW had no solo play support I wouldnt play. Not everyone plays for the same reasons.

If you want solo play, why are you logging onto the internet for it? Games like Final Fantasy, Oblivion, Zelda, and even Leisure Suit Larry (

) have much richer story development and graphical ability.

An online game is social by its very nature. Solo play there is like getting a car not to drive, but to eat lunch.

I and others want this car to go back to being about driving, and save lunch for the meal table.

Heroes were great for customization, and Henchmen were great for filling things out, but they both have ruined the very need for GW to exist on someone's server rather than my hard drive.

Some of you would be better off downloading a hacked version of the database to this game and running it at home - you'd get exactly what you seem to be calling for.

arcady

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

San Francisco native

Mo/P

03 Dec 2007 at 22:40 - 117

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stockholm

The reson a lot of players have their own guilds is that they don't want to join a guild run by some mini dictator,

So go join a good guild instead.

-shrug-

Don't see the problem.

Fluffiliscious

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2007

US

Gods Army of the [Dead]

E/

03 Dec 2007 at 22:41 - 118

I don't really care either way. I think heroes are a nice upgrade from henchies so I think that if they're going to allow henchmen then they should have heroes, too. I mean, if they're going to allow AI chars in groups then it would be nice to have to option to mod their skill bars and armor...

arcady

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

San Francisco native

Mo/P

03 Dec 2007 at 22:45 - 119

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackSephir

Now that's just getting old. Maybe you wanted to pick WoW instead of GW?

Maybe you wanted to pick Oblivion instead of GW?

bel unbreakable

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2006

scotland

shadow hunters of light

W/Mo

03 Dec 2007 at 22:47 - 120

im all for keeping the heros in gw2 who wants to go back to the good old days when you spend an hour getting a group.
start and find you lose 3 ppl inside5 mins cause their mum said their tea was rdy