Whats your view on Anet allowing level 10s now into GWEN?

Playing through GWEN as a lvl10-19 using your own inititive + skill without the aid of a buff compared to playing through GWEN as a lvl10-19 with a buff that gives you a slight enchancment on your skills and abilities.

Your trying to suggest the buff doesnt make GWEN even a little bit easier for lvl10-19s?

What shows and incourages more skill; managing to survive and progress through GWEN at lvl10-19 without the aid of a buff or with the aid of a buff?

Logically you would expect more skill is required without the buff! Are you going to argue otherwise?

Just in case you missed it, fish.

No the buff doesnt make GWEN any easier for lvls 10-19 then it is for a level 20. Your trying to suggest you think it does... Oh wait, yes you are 1000 x infinity times over.

Again like I said before, skill starts at level 20, not before. Thats why we do PVP with level 20's and not with level 10's with a buff. I couldnt, and I doubt that anyone other then your elitist self could care less about how someone levels up, the easier it is the better for them.

And yes, you could be level one with no buffs in gwen with lvl 15 heroes and level 20 henchmen. All you need to do is stand back and flag your H/H in to farm your XP untill you level up.

LEVELING UP REQUIRES NO SKILL, IT NEVER HAS, IT NEVER WILL, IT NEVER SHOULD (unless ofc you want to get survivor, feel free to do so).

I leveled up to level 20 with flare. OMG im soooo skilled at GW for getting to lvl 20 XD.

21 pages? End this madness now, please.

Or start posting the pictures of cats.

Quoting is fun is this thread. Everything that needs saying to fish has been said sooooo many times over and over lol.

And heres your cat



http://www.worth1000.com/entries/242...2771QWYU_w.jpg

Its there with an img tag, but I cant see it.

Hang on.... level doesnt equal skill does it not!

How am I the one being elitist when i've said several times now, that some lvl10s are probably skilled enough to handle GWEN, while others arent. I'm sure there are lvl10 players ingame who are better then some lvl20s and could kick their ass easily in 1v1 (if possible).

Yet your stating a player isnt skilled at all until their lvl20?

When have I ever said that I want to make leveling up a slower or harder process? I dont! I actually prefere factions as a campaign because you level up faster, fill your attributes sooner and can enjoy GWs more fully sooner.

I have never once said I want the process harder. Originally I was saying I didnt like the idea of having lvl10s in GWEN, because you are bound to find some expecting to join PUGs and some may not be of any use and they will just be leaching of you.

However, I didnt say all lvl10s-19s are useless and unskilled.

I also later changed my view on that because I accept the game is open ended and you should be able to go where you like.

I fully accept a lvl10-19 could join a full lvl20 group and basically get run through GWEN (which is actually one of the reasons I was against the idea originally!), and I accept they have lvl20 heroes which will make it easier anyway.

So if they will level up fast anyway in GWEN and they can get run through the game with lvl20 pugs and they have lvl20 heroes to help them.... why do we need a buff?

You all state the buff isnt that effective and actually doesnt make you equal to a lvl20 and is virtually useless, but then you state the buff makes them a usefull and effective member of a lvl20 PUG!

If the buff doesnt make them equal to a lvl20, and doesnt have that huge an impact on their abilities then how can it make them usefull to anyone (unless they just happen to be a skilled played anyway)!

If a player is a newbie and just started playing and decides to enter GWEN at lvl10, the buff (which apparently has no real impact) isnt going to make them an effective member of the team. The simple reason being they have no experience of fighting lvl20+ creatures with 2 professions and will most likely stand back and be picked off for being low level and end up leaching while they power level.

Even if they level up fast, what skill will they have as a result of standing back and watching?

If the player is an experienced player and has lots of characters and skill and enters GWEN at lvl10, they shouldnt need the buff to make them an effective member of any lvl20 PUG or to survive GWEN at low levels.

This is the point im trying to make. The buff isnt needed! Im not saying lvl10s arent experienced and cant be valuable members of a team, but not all lvl10s are skilled. Some are new and dont understand the game enough to handle tough areas like GWEN without just piggy backing on lvl20 PUGs.

The buff gives those skilled lvl10s something they dont need, while giving the non-experienced lvl10s a buff which will make the game easier and reduce how much skill they put to use.

If a lvl10 wants to enter GWEN then let them, but dont make anything easier or give them a buff. Let them show their "true" skill without the need of enchancements to their character.

Because the buff makes them an effective teammate. That is the point of it. It has nothing to do with personal skill in a team game, unless you are referring to soloing (without H/H, even). The buff makes everything level. Not easier, but even.

You are taking all of that out of context. It isn't that effective on a personal level, since the other 7 members of a team can do everything just fine without that level 10-19. Once you understand that in context, the rest makes sense, doesn't it?

If, if, if. They won't have any experience, you're right. But guess what: experience will come as they play, no matter where they play. The power-level argument is old and has been refuted by even yourself by being fine with level 10-19 to access GW:EN, with or without the buff. If the player wants to power level, they will, period.


EXACTLY. That is the point of the buff. Otherwise they would have no choice but to stand there and watch. At least with the buff they can jump in and get dirty without dieing like a b*tch and doing piddly damage.

C'mon Fish, Macabre. Let it go man, all this indifferent nonsense isn't doing anyone any good,
it just going round in circle.
The holiday season is upon us, good will toward all man (even the wammo).
Tell you what, I'll buy you two beers as well.

It's really a silly thing to discuss in the first place. I think I just keep going because of how silly it is.

Oh, and I'll take you up on that beer offer anyday!

They don't. But that's besides the point - you need to prove why the Buff should be eliminated. Or are you going to argue that PvE skills should be eliminated b/c we don't "need" them?

It doesn't make them equal, but it makes a level ten more useful, yes. Again, explain why this is bad.

There you go again, pretending it takes skill to stand back and flag your Heros and Henchies.

Come on Freek! I expected more from you. Either make a coherent argument, or STFU.

Misquoted FTW due to lack of understanding ZOMG. Seriously you need a brain.

'Skill starts at level 20'

Because the day or two it takes to get to level 20 are completely meaningless and insignificant to a characters overall skill level.

Every tom dick and harry in GW can get their character to level 20. How you level up or play before level 20 doesnt affect your skill level one bit. A skilled character can roll a new character and level them up yes, but the level you see on a character does not determine their skill level one bit as you assume it does. After all, In the other campaigns we have a noob island for new characters, the sole purpose of which is to raise your character to level 20. You always have the option to leave to the mainland if you want and play with level 20 henchmen to level yourself up.

Lets have a vote for fish to STFU

/signed.

/sigh

The buff is not even a big deal. Level 10 N/Mo wanting to play MM? Guess what, you max Death Magic at 12, not 16. This is true for any class/attribute. Until they hit level 20, they are under the buff, making them stop at 12 attribute points. Even worse, is the people wanting to run a build with only 2 attributes, maxing both. 16 Dagger and 13 Critical Strikes isn't possible until they hit level 20.

They get a buff, yes. The buff does not make them better than a level 20, it makes them worse (for 95% of the builds).

I am still waiting to hear a reason why this effects Fish... or anyone.

You dont have to keep posting in the thread do you? Maybe you should STFU urself!

Im bored now anyway, if someone wants to close this they can, im unsubcribing.

it does not affect anyone, but you've got to agree, now that this is happening, survivor title has way too many help, and it is time Anet help the older characters, and to let them have a chance of getting the title. JUST FOR FAIRNESS SAKE, how can Anet keep helping new character to get survivor title and ignore the many petitions for older characters to get a chance to gain the title?

and i have no problem what so ever that level 10 can now run around in EOTN, just don't ask for gold, and runs to places. lol annoying, already given "priviledge" and they want more.

Wait, now you're bored?

If only you had become bored a few days ago...

I've never seen you get this nasty, Mordakai.

Bad mood today. Taking it out on poor Freekedoutfish...

I think this thread makes everyone angry.

QFT

This thread has gotten ugly........oh wait that was 21 pages ago lol. I'm seeing generally good posters reduced to mean spirited attacks. Very sad. Don't argue with stupid. They pull you down to their level and beat you with experience. Enjoy the holidays. Stop the insanity guys. be the bigger person and just let this damn thread die. Please?

It bothers me somewhat in the sense that the expansion was meant to be high-level content. Quite blatantly it isn't, which is why they are able to allow scrubs into the expansion.

GW:EN is too easy... I was hoping for a step up in difficulty from DoA, with less "broken-ness" and more actual skill involved.

Then take it out on moi on TF2! I'll play nice..

I think the goal of GWEN was to offer a product that would appeal to both the casual gamer, and the hardcore gamer. Whether it succeeded or not is open to debate: Some casual players felt the armor grind was "too much," while Hardcore players finished the game in several hours with not much more use for it.

It's funny, but I think the simple inclusion of more (or less redundant) armor and even more weapon skins (including better Destroyer skins), would have made the game much more appealing to both casual and hardcore. (ie, the Hardcore would have a new set of weapons to collect, although the Gemstones would have to NOT be available at the merchant for it to work)*, and "grind" for better armor might be more appreciated.

* Or keep the Destroyer weapons as is, and offer a rarer subset in the more Elite Dungeons...


Anywho, I apologize if my comments got out of hand. I should have stopped posting in this thread long ago...

Hate to admit it, I don't have the Orange Box yet! It's on my list, however....