Whats your view on Anet allowing level 10s now into GWEN?

Nets Wants Money Plain And Simple


As Lame As It Is

My concern with the level 10 thing is not the skill levels of those 10s considering every char starts there but the buff that they receive when going to GWEN and the VERY quick leveling.

I must say I thought it was nice to see only lv 20s around the place seeing as you can find really low levels all over proph. but meah whatever.

ETA:
LMAO They are a company! They have employees to pay and rent and other bills. Geese the world is not free. Guild wars doesn't cost THAT much as it is.

Do people not read anything before they post.....

1) I said I dont mind lvl10s going into GWEN. I changed my view on that!

2) I never said that a lvl10 isnt experienced or unskilled!

3) I said level isnt connected to skill. I said you gain experience and skill as you level up. Whether that be as a new player or from playing previous characters.

What I am trying to say is this, very simply....

If a player at lvl10 is experienced and skilled enough to handle GWEN then great, let them in and they can have fun. But why do they need the buff if their a skilled player?

If a player at lvl10 is not experienced or skilled enough to handle GWEN then why should they get an attribute boost? They shouldnt! They should go away and play other areas until they get more experience and skill until they reach a point where they are skilled enough to handle GWEN.

The buff is completely unrequired!

Its nothing more then a cheap marketting scheme, which may sell more games but it ruins this entire idea of skill. You shouldnt be able to enter an area unless you (personally without any buffs) have learnt the skill and experience to handle that zone.

If you're an existing player who has played for years the you shouldnt need the buff to handle GWEN at lvl10.

If your a new player at lvl10 and you walk into GWEN, you should get a hard shock by how easily you die. That then forces those new players to think "right I need more skill before I try this area and maybe to rethink my build".

Not just to let new players into GWEN at lvl10, max their attributes out and have them wipe the area clean with any old build. That doesnt promote skill!

Your trying to suggest a decision made by Anet, which is motivated purely by profit is going to be in the best interestes of the actual game and the community? Do you not understand how a business works! Yes it may put more money into the company and the game, but what has been changed or sacrificed in order to make that proft?

In this case the sacrifice is allowing lvl10 players into GWEN at an equal level to lvl20s and removing any motivation to improve themselves so they can actually handle the area.

Players should be entering GWEN at lvl10 and going "oh hang on, this is a bit hard at this level... maybe I should rethink my build or skill up a bit first!". Not just walk into GWEN, get buffed at lvl10 and face off against a lvl22 creature with no worries at all.

Personally, I don't mind this. It's not like it's HARD getting to level 20 in the first place. If lower level chars don't want to get rolled by any hostile NPC in GW:EN, they'll wait until thier accually a level were they can surivive

Because it wouldn't be much fun otherwise?

Remember the point of games? To have fun?

What I'm saying is, what is good for Anet is good for Guild Wars, and vice versa. The two are connected: you cannot deny the right for Anet to make money, and you have to trust them to make the best decisions based on their business model. Not everyone like every decision Anet makes, that would be an impossible task. The goal is to piss off the least amount of people possible, while trying to attract the most people possible.

There is motivation to continue to improve: It's called the rest of the Guild Wars chapters and Hard Mode!

It's not like the buff is permanent: it goes away when you either A) leave GWEN or B) become level 20.

So, eventually, players will lose the buff and become like the rest of the level 20s wandering around.

The idea of letting level 10s into GWEN without a Buff is sadistic - what a way to turn off your trial base! Either allow it with buffs or don't allow it at all.

No, you gain experience by playing the game. The fact that you level up at the same time really doesn't do much other than make numbers bigger, which leads me to...

If they're a bad player, getting to the same level of power as the rest of us will not make the game easier. Like i said, leveling up does almost nothing other than making numbers bigger for both sides. If you're a bad player doing small numbers in damage and taking small numbers of damage, you'll still be a bad player when dealing and taking large numbers in damage. Yes, there are some things that are harder, but if they can handle it, let them.

Also, do you honestly think that a "good" player would be truly able to do anything worthwhile as a lvl 10 in gwen? All they would do is be one worthless slot out of 8 unless they ran some sort of weird support that didnt rely on attribute points. Of course, I suppose they technically could hack it, but it's also been proven that 7 hero/hench can clear most things with the one player bringing an empty skillbar, so it doesn't really mean much.

Fish has a point, I hate seeing low lvl's running around top end zones. Plus they ask the most stupidest, nobbiest questions...

"What do i do with a heroes handbook?"
"Why cant i buy this armour yet"
"Where do I get my new heroes?"

Etc, etc. So yea big pain in the butt.

On the up side running peeps from place to place ups my platinum ratings.

So not much problem on that part.

Anyone can be that stupid.

Whats funny is that my friend asked those exact questions to me on his lvl 20 after finishing the game.

dude take own advise and read...
buff is NOT equal to level 20, HP is, but Attributes fail..certainly not how i would have my attributes at level 20

experienced players taking level 10 with buff is annoying...(Attributes capped at 12)not helpful.

inexperienced players taking level 10 with buff is helpful...(HP Bonus) learning curve for them..if they cant handle it they go back and level up at beginning..there choice.

besides you didnt complain when they give a (HP)buff to players(lvl 17) entering Consulate Docks Mission.
Hmmm maybe you did..

I don't see the point other than wanting people to buy GW:EN. It isn't difficult to get to level 20 no matter what campaign you own.

So there are going to be lvl10's in EOTN now, and they get a buff. Big Deal. All this crying about quick leveling and inexperienced players is total BS tbqh.

You also have the ability now to take a new char into EOTN and level them more quickly if you choose, and if not, that's your call.

As far as inexperienced, it's been said here already but seriously, an inexperienced player is an inexperienced player at lvl 10, 15 or 20. Alot of the lvl20's running around EOTN before this update fit the bill precisely, and I'm positive alot of the lvl10-19's there now are experienced players on their umpteenth character.

And to the O.P., although it's a bit off topic, the little comment about Anet doing this but still restricting the BMP... Are you serious? Your going to sit there and whine that EVERYONE is being given a boost in eotn, but YOU are unable to access the BMP? Content that we all had, what, like 6 months advance notice on how to qualify for, and you made a choice not to do it, but now your going to moan how unfair it is? Tbh I hope they never open the BMP to everyone, BC of self-centered little whiners like you.

::sigh:: cry more, seriously.

If the buff has very little effect and doesnt really improve the character, then again I ask; why have it? It just seems gymicy and completely pointless to me!

I just dont get why people want or need the buff. If a low level player wants to enter GWEN then great, but if they find it hard once they get there its their own fault for not being skilled enough at a low level to handle it.

They shouldnt get a buff to make it easier.

Should we add buffs to southern shiverpeaks, the battle ayles, the desert, sorrows furnace, the realm of torment and all elite zones just to make sure lvl10s can survive and not feel disadvantaged?

Ofcourse not, because it sounds dumb when you suggest that.

But what if Anet felt such a change would be a good marketting scheme to get more people to play and buy copies! If Anet did this to make more money, would it suddenly be a good idea?




Plus I wasnt even aware there was a buff on the consolute docks mission? I certainly never noticed one, although I havent touched NF since I ran my existing char through it in HM because its rubbish.

You mistaken a buff that makes everyone "equal" with one that makes everything easier. This is the former. Please don't get confused.

I don't see anything wrong with it. The only reason it won't be done is that it would be a waste of Anet's time. They're not trying to promote their older games, they're trying to promote GW:EN. Man, get with the program.

No, because it's not a bad idea to begin with. By saying it's "suddenly a good idea" implies that it's not a good idea now, which it is. Yeah. See where I'm going with this?

Yes, there is a buff at the Consulate Docks. This isn't a new idea at all.

i don't believe this failure of a thread has reached 17 pages. letting lv10s into eotn lets them hit 20 faster. if you don't let them it'll just take them a few hours more to hit 20.

imo, freekedoutfish is trying to keep all the drawf points to himself. naughty naughty

We got past the idea of allowing lvl10s into GWEN pages back. I let that slide and change my mind about it. My concern now is purely the buff.

Do you really think it would be a good idea to add a similar buff to high end areas in other campaigns like southern shiverpeaks and sorrow furnace?

Seriously? Your not kidding?

Couldn't bother to read through the whole thing, but I don't care if there are level 10s in EotN... good for them. However, the "buff" is total bullshit...

I am really liking the fish

I don't really mind to be honest but i really think its there loss. They should complete their campaign first to understand more of the game

If he isn't I am.

What's the problem getting everyone on a level playing field when that is actually what it's all about in this game?

Oh, and even if the buff is a gimmick: why remove it?

so levels would only be "used" in PVE as part of character development story wise? why give them numbers? (lvl1 etc) why not just give us titles like "assended" "wei no su" etc and buff us accordingly to where we are in the game if we are bellow some arbitrary NON DISPLAYABLE level.

Then only toon owner could see his/her "level" but it would be only so that they could grind up a bit before moving onwards in the story.

just as long as Anet does not start handing out "buff" skills as to completely eliminate any merit other than "driving"....oh shi*

I came into GW:EN at lvl 15. The buff only helped me with Health. My attributes were actually dumbed down a bit. With the Hero's and a little help from a guildie, I lvl'd to 20 the next day. I have never, NEVER posted any questions in the chat window. If I need information I go to the wiki or here. I didn't ask Anet for a buff or for them to lower anything. But I paid for GW:EN and will take advantage of whatever Anet offers. Not all lvl 10 chars you see in game are noobs, some are like me who understand what RPG's are about and are only working to get high enough to get into the good areas. Just because some (but not all) of the "veterans" feel that they own the higher areas and want to keep them all to themselves isn't enough of an argument to make any sense. From what I've read so far, I sense that most of this unhappy attitude is coming from a feeling of, "Well, I didn't get any help, why should they." When you enter into an explorable area, that instance of the game is created just for you and your party. The lvl 10 or whatever players are nowhere to be seen. Just you. So how exactly can that affect your part of the game?

As for Anet making decisions about the game. If this is/was a marketing thing, great. The more cash Anet can make, the longer those servers continue to operate and the longer we can play this game (with no subscription fee).

Speaking as a new player, I'm going to say that I don't care for what they've done. I finally made it to Lion's Arch with a L14 Warrior and had to give it a go since I do own EotN and figured it would be fun to take part in the promotion...

Pretty much made me feel like I need a shower, and that's with out even leaving the starter outpost. One hero tutorial later and I've got a max weapon of my choice AND two level 20 heros at my beck and call back in Prophecies.

The buff just makes no sense, even considering its slight handicap in the way it forces a particular attribute point distribution, it just seems stupid. I'm a married guy with two young children, if I can be hitting my mid teen levels in about 2 weeks of Prophecies, I'm not seeing what sort of attention deficited moron this was targetted at. Not that levels mean all that much, but this certainly removes all meaning in your character's development. Since he fights like a L20 but you earn XP like whatever your actual level is, it won't be long before he IS a L20 if you bother to hang around and quest.

Worse is the way it imbalances the game progression back in the home campaign. I wasn't able to bring myself to give up my shiny new healbot dwarf, but Vekk had to go. Areas that I had been wiping in repeatedly with just henchmen became cake with the two L20 heros backing me up. It really kills the sense of increasing challenge that needs to be overcome by your progression as a character and skills. It becomes a situation where you can pretty much let the game play itself until the environment catches up with your new toys, and that's just no fun.

I can see how this mid-game potential acceleration to L20 will be welcomed by the player base to whom the campaigns have become old hat and just want to make some alts, but for the first time player it's a ridiculously overpowered gimmick designed to make this game a bit too accessible. If it were up to me I'd change so you either had to be L20 OR have beaten a home campaign to access the EotN content and I'd toss out the silly buff enchantment altogether.

Well again, my sentiment is so what? If you have another character you likely have a max weapon, runes, EQ, max armor and are well funded at a lower level. If you have Nightfall as well you also have a number of level 15 heroes very easily, whom, if you want, can also be leveled pretty quickly. Pretty much fail to see where two level 20 heroes from GWEN makes that much difference. Find it a little hard to believe this thread is still beating the idea around.

Level 1-19 has as much resemblance to guild wars as polymock and serves no purpose beyond making players that like seeing numbers go up comfortable. Giving players the buff everywhere (or just letting them create L20 characters in the first place) is a good thing as it lets them get on with playing with guild wars instead of forcing them into the L1-19 minigame.

Let's set up this scenario:

Even if you don't buff Level 10 characters, how will that stop them from taking Level 20 Heroes and Henchies to power-level them through the game? The only difference is, they'd have to play support characters or stay behind and flag.

And even if you nerf the Heroes (bad idea), a level 10 goes to Nightfall where he can pick up level 17 heroes, correct?

Bottom line: The Buff is not necessary, but neither is it unfair.

There's really no logical argument against it. The argument for it is it makes the game more fun (I don't have to complete starter area for umpteenth time and can go right to GWEN - which I paid for!).

I'm all for updates that make the game more fun. For those who hate the idea, make a new character and try it out.

Read my post, I don't have another character higher, this is my first run through a, in my opinion, very well balanced and designed campaign and the balance and design is rendered null and void by just what you can nab in less than 15 minutes in EotN.

No, no one forced me to try it and I already stored the weapon and aren't using both heros because I actually like playing the campaign as it was designed.

For people who already played all the campaigns once, fine, this doesn't change anything except giving them a way to quickly level their alts, but it's poorly conceived from the perspective of a new player who should get to see the campaigns at least once in their designed fashion. From the perspective of someone who considers the meta issues around a game, I can't see how this helps out Anet, either. All MMO style games that I've played are based around the notion of repeating the storyline again and again at some point, I get that, but they're also based around the idea of actually playing that storyline the first time through, Anet seems to have forgotten that and so haven't you.

Without properly labelling this what it is, a "/cheatmode" for the game, Anet is detracting from the new player experience in a way that cannot help their longterm business. When you bill something like this as a promotion that everybody should take part in, it seems like something everybody should take part in, and I'm saying, no, it should be something that everybody who's beaten a campaign once should take part in with characters from that campaign, but others should have to wait. Finishing each campaign once is not that hard from everything I've seen and read, and it goes a long way to making the experience of the games more substantive than picking up a set of maxed out equipment and heros for free half way through the campaigns which makes the "finale" portion of the campaigns far less of a challenge.

Well, that's actually one of the best arguments I've read against it, especially considering the hypothetical player who just bought the Guild Wars Prophecy/GWEN combo pack. They get to Lion's arch at level 10 and they can go to GWEN and make the rest of Prophecies a whole lot easier...

But, to be honest, Prophecy is already "broken" with Drak's Runs, Nightfall Heroes, experienced level 20 players helping, etc. If a player wants to "cheat" themselves out of the "first time" experience, there are already tons of ways to do it.

Bottom line: this is optional, nothing is forcing a new player to do it, and as others have discussed, even with the buff and level 20 heroes, if you have no clue to what you are doing, GWEN can eat you up and spit you out. A new player then has two options: Go back to Prophecy and level up normally, or learn how to play the game in GWEN.

I'm all for giving players MORE choices, it's why I fell in love with Guild Wars in the first place.

I guess the real question is whether this will actually increase sales of GWEN, and to that question, who knows? I certainly hope so.

EDIT: Of course, they cynic will say that the 5 hour trial period was just to get the new player hooked on new Heroes, easy max armor and weapons, and then kick them out making them buy GWEN to get that stuff back.... a buyable "cheat mode", using your words!

I can't help but sit back, stop coming up with my own reasons, and let Mordakai take over for us "don't care" or "it's cool" peeps. You've got the logic and the will to express it lol.

Why play pve if you dont want to develop a character through levels, buy skills, armor and earn stuff. You all speak like you instantly want them to be lvl20 and full access to everything upon creation?

Wait a minute... that sounds remarkably like pvp!

So you basically want a pvp creation system in pve, where you make your character and their instantly lvl20, have full access to all skills, armor and weapons?

You want all this so you can instantly have access to full level creatures and high end areas and kick some ass? Not to mention get better drops and more gold!

People seem to be forgetting that one of the fundimental aspects of pve in an MMO/RPG is to be better then the guy next to you. GWs may not promote this idea, but it still exists in all online games. If your all on an equal footing, own all the same level from the word go, all own the same stuff and have nothing to strive for... why play pve?

They might aswell just scrap the pve develop, merge the battle ayles into pve and let us bring pvp characters into pve. That sounds like what you all want!

Ok, what about this:

Make it like HM, only people with who have completed a campaign on their account can have access to GWEN at lvl 10.

??

No. The fundamental aspect of any game is to have fun. Of course, some people have fun trying to be "better" than the next guy, have "better" stuff, earn more gold, whatever. Since everyone's view of what's "fun" differs, it makes a universally entertaining game impossible to create.

Why play single-player games? There is nothing to compete for.

Believe it or not, some people just play to play. Last night I zoned in and out of Sifhalla waiting for the White Moa flock to spawn. Why? Because I wanted a White Moa pet. Was it hard? No. Did it take a lot of time? No. Can anyone else in the world have a White Moa? Sure.

So why did I do it? Because I wanted one. I wish I could explain the reasons beyond that, but I just can't.

Not everyone finds leveling by itself a compelling reason to play Guild Wars. If they did, everyone would stop playing once they got to level 20.

I play PVE to develop my character, get new armor and weps and skills yes, BUT NOT TO LEVEL UP.

Will you please get it through your braindead thick skulls that leveling is insignificant in GW? EVEN THE DEVELOPERS OF THE GAME SAY IT IS.

Sheeeesh, I wish this thread and all the scrubs in it that highly value the meaningless 20 levels in GW would go away. Why do you play GW if your so bothered about leveling when it Is such an insignificant part of this game? Go play WoW instead.

Fish: Letting level 10 players into GW:EN is bad.
Everyone else: No, its not.
Fish: Well, it is because of x,y, and z.
Everyone else: X is wrong, y is a misunderstanding, and z is not important.
Fish: Ok, so letting level 10 players into GW:EN is not bad. BUT GIVING THEM A BUFF IS!!!!!!!
Everyone else: No, its not.

Does anyone else see a trend here? Soon the buff won't be so bad, but there will be a problem with the people getting heroes, PvE items, inscribable weapons, etc., etc., etc.

Fish, there is nothing about the GW:EN change that effects you. Nothing. It does not allow people to do better than you in PvP. It does not allow people to get weapons before you. It does not allow people to get armor that is better than they could already get.

The only thing it does, is give you something to cry about. Unless this turns into a flame war, it won't get closed.... unless you, as the Topic Creator, ask for it to be closed.

Close this thread, as it is pointless. Well, it has some point, it allows people to get post count.

And in the end, isn't that all that matters?

you we the one who started asking for the norn/asuran bonuses outside its area,

lol, good one

What more could be said. I'm done here.

Although I know what you are saying, I don't ignore levels. It adds to my experience as well. I agree with Mordakai because I like playing to play. Leveling up is fun to me, even after 20, I still get a rush when I gain a skill point and the animation flashes. Its exciting. I create new chars for the sole purpose of starting as a newb and leveling up.

Fish, your argument has shifted to unfair play advantage to the fact that it "ruins" new players experience (limiting your argument against the feature of the buff to less and less of a player base as you go along screaming). I could have made a droks run with my first character. I could have teamed up with a 20 who beat it twice before me. But I wanted the full experience for myself and whomever I played with at the point (Guild Your Mom [YoMo]). We didn't do any of that because we wanted to play it normally. Same situation applies now, you can CHOOSE to allow heroes to be a crutch, you can CHOOSE to go into GWEN pre-20 to get the buff (which at a certain level becomes a hex as it has been shown and I have tried it out). Or you can play through Prophecies as a whole first, or another campaign (although I find Prophecies syncs better for obvious reasons), and then join up the fun in GWEN. Its all up to an individual person. Thus, your complaint comes back to the e-preen infested argument, and thats why we don't like you. It is why you are adopted.

The above poster who said he was new and got the heroes early and such, he didn't have to do that, but he did, and he is complaining that he made a choice. I am glad I have those choices, and so do all players I have offered to bring heroes along in early parts of Proph. New players have actually said can we just play without heroes since you aren't supposed to get them till LA or Nightfall? They made a choice, which in gaming, is awesome. There are others who have asked to use my heroes and for me to switch to my 20 char to easily beat a mission. That's their choice. I don't go crying to ANet screaming that they aren't following the beaten path for new people. Why? Because I think its great that we have those choices to begin with.

After trying it out, the Buff is both a boost and a limit. It allows players to get started in GWEN, but also limits their build choices to an extent, and that was the big balancer to me. It limits choice when advancing beyond your "level" until your graduate to the right level. I still felt I had a lot to learn, I still had my LL monk owned because I did not have any experience with a monk. After trying it all out by myself, I see further no part of the anti-buff (since no one will poke their head out to oppose the low level entrance other than arrogant e-preeners and big box sellers) argument.

Godamnit: Now I am writing essays. Switching to Lolcats mode.

The problem is the economy, giving low levels access to high end loot will kill the economy and trade which is a big part of this game that keeps people playing. Why else farm for high end drops? to make gold, no ones going to be making any gold when eventually everyone has the best weapons and mods and allowing low levels access to this will just speed up the death of the economy. There will be nothing left for PVE other than playing through the content. The PVE endgame - looking the best and being the richest will die and there wont be anyone playing PVE. Infact without a viable economy that leads to competition in PVE theres no reason to have this game online except for a 3d chat room.

Oh please. You think the 6 hours (plus or minus) it takes to level up a character to 20 has any impact on the economy whatsoever?

Guild Wars was never about weapons or armor, or else the stats would be different on FOW armor. The sooner you accept that, the more fun you'll have.