Whats your view on Anet allowing level 10s now into GWEN?

I absolutely agree. It is about skill, that was my point. But why give a player an automatic buff because their under lvl20 when they enter GWEN? How does that aid their skill ingame?

If GWs is about skills they shouldnt need the buff. If they player chooses to enter GWEN under lvl20 they and their "skilled" enough to face off against a lvl22 creature, at lvl10, using an amazing skill bar and experience then great.

But if they choose to enter GWEN under lvl20 and aren't "skilled" enough to make a great skill bar and die every 2 minutes then tough. They should have earnt some experience first before entering GWEN.

The automatic buff actually removes this idea and need for skill. Once they get that attribute buff their limited skills become more powerfull anyway and their health may increase. Ity removes the need to take skill or tactics or experience in with them because they are equal to a lvl20 and can kill anything a normal lvl20 can.

If they didnt have that buff and were lvl10 with less powerfull skills and health, then they would have to put alot more thought into their abilities. But Anet has killed that need.

We all know that at lvl20 you can basically steam-role most areas in GWEN or other campaigns. But at lvl10 with non-buffed attributes would take alot more concideration on resources and your limited skill bar. If they survived I would stand up and say "OMG thats a skilled player", but to see a buffed lvl10 player in GWEN doesnt say "skilled" to me.

You all talk about this buff making lvl10 characters on equal footing to lvl20s in GWEN. But why should a lvl10-19 be on equal footing? It makes no sense.

Not to mention when they enter GWEN they instantly get 4 lvl20 heroes very easily within the first 5 minutes. Add that to the buff, and where exactly does skill come into it? They might not even be good at using heroes or have limited skills for those heroes too, but they would still make a huge difference.

Your then giving a lvl10-19 player a walk in the park through high end content with a buff and lvl20 heroes which will probably power level them.

Bottom line; they need to remove the buff and maybe make the heroes the same level as them when they aquire them. Let lvl10s in if they want, but dont hold their hand and make it easy as pie if they choose to fight much harder creatures.

If you were to walk into a really tough area in Oblivion or some other RPG or MMO, would you get an instant buff to make sure you survive or you would get slaughtered? Ofcourse not! You would become the prime target to all the creatures and die within seconds.

So why should it be different here? This is just marketting gone wrong and Anet doing stupid things to keep people playing.

PUGs...useful? I've never heard such a thing.

There are two types of Level 10-19 characters in GW:EN.

First, you have characters on accounts with at least one other Level 20 character. That player will have the experience you're talking about.

Second, you have the characters on accounts with no Level 20's. If these characters go into GW:EN, they will be missing exactly the experience you say they will need to beat the enemies there. So they will either try, fail, and go back to lower level areas, or they will adapt and develop skill. What's not to like?

Any character in GW:EN will be tested on exactly the types of experience you're talking about. They won't be tested on their level.

You have to remember that most of the game's content is for Level 20's. This means that unless you have developed the skills to play on this level, you will fail. Most experienced players will find this funny, as it quickly becomes easy to roll through most PvE, but that's the theory. Being newly Level 20 does not guarantee success in a Level 20 environment. Especially if you haven't yet earned a decent skillset, or any Elites, and have an unchangeable attribute spread.

To put it another way, you say that the game teaches you experience and skill that you will need to succeed in Level 20 content. If this is the case, then simply having a Level 20 buff won't give anyone that skill and experience, and they'll fail.

So, at worst, it allows inexperienced players to see what they need to learn, and at best, it lets experienced players quickly level a new character, to enjoy the game again.

Huh? It makes them equal to a level 20. They still need some skill (and getting a balanced group of Heros and Henchies) to survive the hardest areas of GWEN, especially if they have a limited skill set with no Elites.

Look, every other Guild Wars product has some content for characters under level 20. GWEN did not. Anet decided to change that to try and make the expansion more popular. End of story.

Skill is still in play: you have to make Skill Bars for those Heros! (unless you want to use the half skill bars they are set up with)

Is it Power leveling if you have to do it yourself? BTW, you only get around 35 xp for each kill. You're treated just like a level 20, so don't expect your level 10 to become level 20 in 30 minutes.

Why? All this outrage, and I don't understand how it hurts you. Why do you care now Level 10's have another option than to run through the same beginner area for the upteenth time....

Bad example. Oblivion is scaled to level.

Yep, those stupid people at Anet trying to get people to buy their products.

WTF is wrong with them! They shouldn't let anyone new into the game, so only the Old Guard will remain "elite".

What content in GWEN is aimed for anyone lvl10-19? None of it is. All creatures are ove lvl20 and intended for players who have completed atleast one campaign and fought creatures up to that point.

Just because they let lvl10s in doesnt mean they have "added low level content" to GWEN.

But now they can experience it and decide to buy it or not without having to wait an additional 10 levels. This is good.

It does not matter what we think. Anet does what "they" want to.

Start thinking like a business then re-ask the question.

If letting level 10's in sells more copies then, they win and you keep playing for free.

How does this effect you? It doesn't. If you want to PUG, then PUG. If you don't want to PUG with people who aren't level 20, then don't. It isn't like they are entering HA at level 10, with buffs to make them as good as the people level 20. Its PvE, and it only impacts you if you want it to.

And for your information, not all monsters in GW:EN are level 20 or above.
As a starter for you, consider these:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Krait_Neoss

Maybe you will allow level 18 people to play with you now?

^Metamorphosis (monster skill) (levels 18 and 19 only). Creature changes into an adult Krait.

>.>

<.<

http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Rabbit

Sends you into a room filled with creatures less than level 20

That is a great thing, no denying it!

Because you no longer need to play atleast one character through one campaign to access GWEN and you no longer needs to be lvl20, we will have even less people playing through earlier campaigns.

Now we will have people being run to LA and other jump off points and heading straight for the asura portal at lvl10.

It was a good thing to have to atleast play one campaign and level up first, because it ensured people still played the earlier games.

Not really, here is list that your "lowbie" will miss because he did not complete previous campaigns:

* 15 att quests /reqs. at least desert./. Thats huge one.
* mid to late game elites and skills.
* ascension and thus unlocked secondaries.
* various pve-only stuff like ss or kurz skills and appropriate grinded tracks.

L20 is not everything.

Which is important because...?

Well, its not important, but when you feel like you are last one playing the game because there is noone in outposts (and that translates to feeling like you are playing dying/dead game), it discourages from further gameplay in mmos. It feels like you are wasting time (like if playing "lively" moo was not technically waste of time either)

Well, first of all, GW is not an MMO, which is also why level is not important, either. Secondly, where would these players go once they have leveled up and done all of GWEN? You don't think they're going to explore further into the other games they purchased? Or are they just going to write off all that content and stay in GWEN?

Well,
We just finished doing exactly what you are complaining about. I ran my Girl friend's level 10 warrior from yaks bend to LA. Then we did the quest to get to EotN. We then fought to the umbral grotto and I helped her GRIND to level 5 dwarven. Then we ran into the battle depths, did the mission on my char that has done it before, poof she is in the central transfer chamber and is now sporting female silver eagle ELITE armor. (Which is also displayed in her HoM.) She has never beat any campaign on that character, is now level 20, missing all her bonus attributes and is a better tank than most in pugs. I even gave her max green weapons and shields. I don't even think she has capped an elite skill yet on that character. BTW this all took 2, 8 hour sessions with a lil bit of finishing up.

She still has not finished any campaign, but will some day, on her warrior.

FYI she tanked the end destroyer boss in the battle depths in armor from ascalon, still feel leet and special about your level 20 content?

I have no idea which side of the fence you are on Zamial, but I take it as further proof that IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU LET LOWER LEVELS IN OR GIVE THEM THE BUFF. Anyone can give them perfect weapons/stats/money/time to get the "best" armor in the game. I feel sad for people who care about being "elite" in a game that was intentionally made to be fun in PvE without NEEDING to have the competition observed in the other half of the game, where that is encouraged.

Seriously griefers, its not like they took away your e-peeni/e-enchanced performance, or even more scary, your elite skills or hard worked armors. Then I would give you reason to complain, and I would carry the banner with you or more realistically, go play another game for a while (which I do anyways to keep things fresh). Take a break you fools, you clearly need it if you are spending so much time writing essays on why lower-than-thous shouldn't recieve a skill/attribute-limiting buff / more astutely observed as hex.

True, nobody pays to get runs to Droks, get powerleveled, and cap the elites in that region. Nobody gets run to LA, warps to Kamadan, gets 4 free heroes with no work, and a 5th with very little work.

I play in all 4 games. Everytime I do, I see other people there, playing. Either you are playing at times when everyone else is asleep, or you are playing in the International districts in cities that nobody uses. I will admit some places have very few people, but all places I go to have SOME people.

All I see you doing in this thread is crying about how people can get things faster than you can. Who cares. Just you.

How is it not a massively multiplay online game?

Its massive, its multiplayer and guess what... its online too! I really love how people try to argue this game isnt an MMO and yet I see no one giving evidence to back that up. Any quotes from Anet stating its something else?

I accept its not an MMO it an original sense, but please dont start the "its not an MMO there for it doesnt matter about level" arguement unless you can back it up.

Either way, even if its an RPG that still DOES mean level is important? the point of an RPG is to create and develop a character through activities!

THIS.

123456

NOW THE BIGGEST MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION OF ALL
did you have fun (its a game you know) doing it?

[QUOTE]since you started over 2 years ago as if that means anything

i started well over 3 years ago in early beta again so what.
backed up again

here is the even before GW came out statement which i will remind you of when you keep preaching on the glories of level

Level 10's in EoTN don't effect anyones gameplay, so all this bitching is pointless.

Put away your handbags, kiss and then stfu.

/thread

12chars

Then WTF are you arguing about?

lol he makes thread just to make threads.

I'm waiting for the online petition to arrive.

POLL: Allow lvl2 characters into GW:EN!

Yes, it was fun. Also my girl friend has a blast playing her warrior now. I have never to date been bored in game and do not even mind a lil farm/grind. This game offers so much to do for no monthly fee it isn't even funny.

I have also found that if you really like the way you character looks w/ equipment, you will have more fun and like the character more.

Doesn't go for everyone, though. A lot of people like holding a really rare weapon in their hands, regardless of looks. Me? I love the way FoW armor looks, nice and fitting on the arms and legs. Favorite weapon? That's right, the all-newbie Fiery Dragon Sword. You won't ever see me using something different.

Actually, now you mention it....

I'd appreciate it if Anet could move the Asura Gate out of Kaineng and onto Shing Jea Island. If Tyrians and Elonians can warp from a low level area where's the love for my male rit ???? I've still got to go through all the missions to get him off the island.

bah ...

/petition to start at level 20, since level "doesn't matter in this game" ^_^

I was agreeing to it being a good marketting scheme, not to it being a good idea for the actual game itself. Read things before you quote me.

It was just a statement and how does your fancy quote prove guild wars isnt an MMO?

the "fancy quote" proves that you are just dumb because we've been telling you that this game is not 100% about char development, thats why there's a low lvl cap.

you keep saying that player lvl = skill, i've seen lvl 20 wammos (and idiots who say savannah heat works great even at 60% dp) that suck badly, and lvl 10 warriors that play better than average

oh and btw here's your lvl 50 raptor nestling
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Raptor_Nestling <--- do i read lvl 15? ohshi, wtf? I DEMAEND LEET ENEMIES FOR ME TO PWN!!!!! GWEN IS LEET FOR LEET PLAYERS ONLY!! I FEEL INSULTED /ragequit

edit: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Charr_Invaders <---- i'm so going to sue anet for those lvl 8 charrs

FFS I am not saying level = skill and get that into your head. Im saying you learn experience and skill while you level up, as you kill lower level creatures and move onto stronger ones. Level is not important, but it does have a purpose ingame.

When did I ever make a comment about the level cap?

To allow people to enter GWEN at lvl10-19 is fine, but to allow them a buff to increase their abilities when they enter GWEN bellow lvl20 is wrong. Its basically cheating.

If a player is truly skilled at lvl10 then why do they need that buff when they enter GWEN?

If they are not skilled enough to handle GWEN at lvl10 then they should go away, gain some more experience and skill and come back when they can handle it. Not just enter GWEN at lvl10 and have their attributes increase with no good reason. That is what im saying, not that lvl=skill.

Level is not the be-all and end-all of a character, but it is an aspect and it does mean something. Its a sign of the time you've spent ingame and the experience you've gained while doing that. A player at lvl10 cant possible have played long enough (assuming their new) to understand how to handle GWEN effectively, so why do you deserve a buff?

Yes some players at lvl10 will have played before and have experience... so why do experienced players need the buff? They dont!

Its the experience which is important and the skills you learn as you go which make levels relivant.

I also asked the question why people think this game is not an MMO and that is why I asked how that quote proves it isnt?

You have to remember that most people just skim the thread without actually reading it, then reply based on how it seems things are going, without comprehending what you actually mean. :/




Going to GW:EN at level 10 = fine. Teh Superbuff = not.

The faster ANet can get their product sold, the better.

Because the skill is in how the build and the like are set up. If your build, character setup/gear, or attributes are sucky and/or inefficent, you won't do well no matter how long you've been playing. Player skill matters a bit, but it won't save you.

I played my warrior for about 4 months at level 20 with Mending and Orison still on my bar.

i.e. Yes the level cap means something, but that "something" is incredibly insignificant.

Well for one, Loviatar didn't set out to prove in that instance that "Guild Wars is not an MMO." But since what he quoted said "we don't want levels to mean anything," and since leveling up in MMOs *means* something, then I think one should be able to put two and two together there.

Not to mention that Guild Wars is not an MMO because it has little to nothing that MMO players want.

How can you say it's a good idea for Anet, but not good for Guild Wars?

If it's good for Anet, it's good for the game. After all, without Anet, there would be no Guild Wars to bitch about.

I still don't see why it's bad for the game:

So level 10's get to experience "high level" content a bit early. Again, how does this hurt you? How does it hurt the game?

There are plenty of Level 20 players who are "bad", and plenty of level 10 players who are "good": Level is not a good indicator of skill.

WTF lol?


123456

Bull. So you're saying that my level 7 monk is a sign of the time I've spent ingame and the experience I've gained while doing it. Again I repeat - bull. I've got 8 lvl 20 characters, a few of which have beaten 2 campaigns and my ele has been everywhere in all three + EotN. Does that make me good at the game... ? Nope, not at all but neither does my lvl 7 monk mean I'm crap at it or inexperienced.

One of the most frantic missions in all three campaigns (that's not elite) is the very first mission players do after hitting the mainland in Cantha, quite often before they hit lvl 20.

Making one mighty assumption there aren't you? Unless you grill every player whether they're lvl 10 or lvl 20 you're never going to know their skill level.


As to the buff, meh I don't care. Let people play the game the way they want to and I'll do the same. H/H never complain or ragequit.

Doesn't really bother me, so let them in.