Why are they Punishing Hardcore Players

There is a sense in which I wish there were more items that were rare and difficult to obtain. The game already tailors to the casual player by its very nature. Low level cap, easy access to max equipment. The game always has been more about skills than equipment. The only thing different about 'rare' items is the look. Why not reward players who put in time with access to skins that are hard to come by? It doesn't give them any unfair advantage in gameplay terms.

I'm saving this for later use!

made some things ezier, but it often kind of ruins the "goal"... there still needs to be a balance though, but ya, if anet just kept advertising to the minority... then... they wouldnt really have so much money.

Actually, as far as the game itself is concerned it is MUCH closer to an RPG than most games out there, it just isn't a typical CRPG. Though the GW community is about as far from a RP perspective as one can get, the system itself would support a decent one. Would be great if Anet had an enforced RP district - I think it would attract a sizable portion of the RP'ers out there (though that is admittedly a small crowd).

Most of your table top RPG's are designed around a fairly limited level and equipment range and is focused on the personal interaction and story (and hence the whole "role playing"). At some point Computer RPG's became about level and item grind be they MMORPG or single player offline ones (even the Dungeons and Dragons campaigns based on PnP books normally change level/equipment to be more in0line with level/item grind).

To classically be a RPG you had to focus on the gameplay and allow the technical aspect mostly disappear - the term we had for what is now standard play in RPGs was a "munchkin" and that wasn't a nice term.

One of the things I really like about GW is that it allows one to focus on playing the game, not getting a bigger number than someone else. Of course, there pretty much has to be *some8 element of that (titles ofr instance), however that is still WAY different than what the OP is complaining about.

With a non-smartass intent I would generally say go play WoW - if that is what you want there is no better game on the market and is arguable the best ever made. You don't seem to really like GW, you want WoW with no monthly fees. While I can understand not liking the monthly fees that is no reason to demand a game to conform around what you want - especially when there is one (or more) out there that do exactly that. I have either fairly old offline games or GW so it's not like I can simply go play another game that does what I want. We will see how GW2 works out.

Remove all the traders and see what happens :O

You never need a group to cap an elite... nothing is that hard to reach in GW unless your H/H party is patently terrible these days. For that reason, I absolutely cannot justify buying elite tomes because it takes significantly less than 4-20k of work to cap the skills.

And it's just as well normal tomes are cheaper than the skill trainer, or there'd be no reason to get them! (The one exception being characters that are very early in the campaign and don't have access to the trainers for the skills they want yet.)

You LOSE, good day sir.

I had to role my eyes at this thread. Yes I somewhat understand what the OP is saying, but your saying it about the wrong game. As other have stated the "casual gamer" is who was targeted by GW, not the hardcore. I like the idea of being able to get some leet item as much as the next dedicated player, but this is not some p2p takes 6 months to get that special gear grindfest that you would expect from that type of gameplay.
I remember the days when getting a superior absorb rune would have made me wet myself :3 and then as soon as they were worth nothing I got 5 within a week ><
Yeah, things once valuabe get killed by updates, oh well, life goes on.

You are so right. People have the right to be mad about these changes but take it up with Anet not us.

Bye!! Can I have your stuff when you quit cause it's a comin when everyone can have a black widow just like you.

Sorry pal but if you hadn't noticed GWs is for carebears/casual players. It never was really for the hardcore it just took them a long time to implement everything to reduce the hardcore player to nothingness. No longer elite no longer anything, but, an online QQer now. teehee But, I'm really with you as that's what I like also is being able to grow past other players and stand above them. GWs just isn't that way. It's one reason I've pretty much quit after these last updates and making everything so damn easy anymore.

WOW is the game you want. But, if you play because it's free then Diablo 2 is the game you want. Diablo 2 is actually better because it does have character progression and phat loot that is better than a lot of peoples. Same with WOW and most other MMORPGs that pattern themselves after character progression and phat loot. Thing is 99.9% of them all cost yah to play on their servers. There is Neverwinter Nights origional that is free and it's pretty kewl, but, you can only have like 60-80 people per server and of course the graphics ain't anything to write home about. NWN's 2 was horrible. Then there's Oblivion for OFFline play that's got a lot of character progression and phat loot as well and even voice actors all over the place. Best Arena Bethsoft game yet to me.

But, if you're expecting GWs to make a U-turn and make things harder again you can pretty much forget that and just go ahead and quit now. GWs will always be for the carebears and most likely GW2 as well. Maybe someday some company will make a good MMO/MMORPG that's has no monthly fee, but, will be more like the other famous (WOW) mmorpgs out there today.

Why not reward players who put in time with access to skins that are hard to come by? It doesn't give them any unfair advantage in gameplay terms. [/quote]

For the same reasons I just stated. The carebears would whine and cry (just like they have been for nearly 3 years now) that Joe Blow has this and I want it and I want you Anet to make it easy for me to get. Hence the easy access to most everything now with that Ursan Blessing and of couse the freebie Ritualist they finally got which used to be harder than hell to get and only the best and few elite could get him. The change of the armors in Prophecies so you could put insignias in them just like the other chapters. Still waiting till they implement inscribeable weapons in Prophecies and Factions I expect that is coming not too far from now as that has been one of the latest whines of the carebears. And it just keeps going futher downhill more and more.

There once was a twilight zone story pretty much like the carebears wanting everything where a guys hell was he couldn't lose at anything and always got everything he wanted. It actually drove him nuts because there were no goals, nothing to strive for, nothing to ever gain an advantage of and that was his hell. Would you play a game if you knew you would never die or lose at it? And the big question is for how long? What if it was for eternity? Then how much would you enjoy having a game like that?
[quote]

In all honesty, ANET opened up a good avenue with the introduction of NM & HM.

It gives variety for hardcore and not so much hardcore players.

As to rare items etc it is also a balanced thing to have in-game.

Albeit, we have to take it or leave it, thats the bottom line here.

No point in moaning I think.

All for now.

I'd love to punish hardcore gamers some, I just need a new riding crop and some silk rope first...

HM didn't do much, HARDER enemies yes, Anet got that nicely right. But loots? Um, NO? (I mean elite tome drop rate/gold items with a requir of <11)

Hahah yeah I get better stuff out of the Zashien chests now vs farming and have more fun getting the faction for it than playing that boring pve game anymore. PVP is all that is left for hard core gamers here. Stomping lil 8-13 year old SIN players is the most fun now.

1k-ish and ~15 minutes doing it yourself if you borrow heroes.

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OP: There is only one thing that makes you elite in GWs: Being good at GWs (malyx-with-heroes style).

Anyone can be that kind of elite withing one hour of playing, and some people (including you) will NEVER be that good. Basically, you were not elite at any point of your GWs career.

Btw: There is game just for you: http://www.progressquest.com gl;hf

This is it.

Some people want GW to be a standard MMO with no fee. GW is different, it cannot be like that for a litany of reasons.

If you want everyone on the same level, just you cannot make core items like runes and equipment in general hard to obtain except for vanity items e.g..



Still, GW is developing more and more into a standard vanilla MMO. ANet's so far released ideas for GW2 make me fear that.

Is the OP the perfect example for the GW2 player of the future, the new target group?

This thread is Hardcore! I wholeheartedly support all the changes ANet made that you complained about in your OP, with the possible exception of increasing the number of rare-skinned weapons.

I never bothered with rare weapons before, but now I find I have several. Whenever I found one it was a pleasant surprise, but I have always been far more concerned with the stats of the weapons I use than the pixels. I understand some people like them, however, and I honestly hope that in the future ANet keeps them more uncommon than they have. I really loved what they did with the BMP weapons, and I hope that is a model they continue: ie., release exclusive-skin weapons that are customized, or otherwise can not be traded.

Elitists are so gay.

Who cares if you worked 200 hours (or whatever) to cap a black widow? I could now get an Ursanway UW group and have one within 20 minutes.

Boohoo.

The world is evolving. Would the old typewriter user blame computer?
Be reasonable.

And the constant roller coaster ride of emotions concerning those wanting accessibility and those wanting replayability goes on and on.
I sometimes doubt Anet can please both. But if they can I'll be one shocked puppy.

P.S. please don't shock puppies.

Dude, the game is called Nightfall. A hardcore GW-player who doesn't even get the name of the game right, sjeesj.

Grinding for hours is a bad thing. Fixing this was a good thing.

Low req still means something, though again, this is a good thing. This was never meant to be an item based game.

You could always try another class. Or PvP (though, you might pack it in when your farming builds fail miserably). If all you care about is weapons and armour, Guild Wars was never meant for you. All they did with making items easier to aquire was making it more grind free - which was the whole point of the game.

This comment would make sense if the game was an MMORPG.

How do you know they are fully tweaked out? As far as you know, they just bought a fresh set of 15k armour, have rubbish weapons and no runes on their armour. Even if you see someone using a 'godly' (shit I'm glad that term left the GW vocabulary) fellblade, it could still be just a white. And again, if the only enjoyment you get from the game is getting items, this really wasn't the game for you in the first place.


It's called Underworld. Getting to a Blackwidow chest takes all of 30 minutes.

Um, anybody can have a spider. You can either buy a run or just take 3 heroes and be a DIY man. Getting a phoenix takes all of 30 seconds provided that you are already through the Factions storyline. The black moa takes a bit longer unless you get help from somebody who's done the quest already. Now taming a Rainbow Phoenix takes some actual effort (but still no skill, mind you) so if you are fond of e-peen that should be the obvious choice.

If you really want to show your superiority over the rest of the PvE population then how about collecting ultra rare minis? Nothing draws the attention of the crowds like a mini Kanaxai by your side.

However, this game is not about equipment (and if you prefer phat loot you should really switch to WoW) and the intended method of showing people how you're head and shoulders above others in the game is to beat them in PvP. The game even provides a huge glowing e-peen that you can use to rank your opponents, what else are you asking for?

get over it.

You shouldn't be proud of flaunting it like that

I think that there should be very rare items that have to be earned...whether by long hours of power-trading to earn the money required to purchase the item, completing a vey difficult, multi-leveled area/dungeon or by completing a long series of quests Slaver's Exile and the Mini-Moa quests come to mind, but for ultra rare items, there should be more to do.

And yes, weaponsmiths crafting what used to be rare skins does kinda blow.

Nothing wrong with elitism. (IMO.)

The problem is to be elitist, you either have to actually be elite (which having "l33t armor" is not; a lot of people that fall into that bucket still play like idiots), or you have to have some kind of self-loathing complex going on.

Elitism tends to be more like "no free lunch for people who just suck", not "omg don't devalue my stuffz qq".

get over it, it's a game.

Start playing GvG if you want something special, not everyone is running around in gold capes :P

the author of this post is the reason why most people never play with others outside of their alliance/guild - what a prick

Unfortunately, people fail to make this distinction most of the time.

Had to laugh a little at this thread, I think you should actually get on with playing the game and enjoying it rather waste you life farming and grinding away with the deluded notion that you will be more elite than other players.

As for all the 'leet' stuff in the game it does not necessarily mean you are a better player, mealy that you spend far more time on the game than other players. Guild Wars has been opened up for the more casual player which is a good thing. For the hardcore go grind some titles if that floats your boat.

I do confess I was never a fan of the inscription system but at the end of the day its a game so no big deal, move on.

Now, now, everyone should be nicer to the OP.

I agree with him in thinking it's the casual player who should be made to suffer, not the hardcore...

Wait...

My mistake. His attitude, and therefore he, SUCKS.


EDIT: After posting, I reread the original post. He really, REALLY sucks. A lot.

Elitism breeds division, whether in game or in real life. Further misunderstanding between groups only broadens the divide, and so a downward spiral begins.

There is a definite change in player attitude to the game since I began playing. If the OP cannot accept that the value of items generally decrease over time (not helped by ArenaNet's propensity to "fix" things) then that's a problem they'll need to deal with themselves.

Noone should be made to "suffer".

NO U R!!11!1oneoneleventyone!11

</obvious sarcasm>

I bet you mean "stupid". And as a gay man I'm far from being stupid. Makes me shudder everytime.

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As much as I agree with blue.rellik, I gotta say Adam144 has a point - with Ursan in the game, things are faster and much easier. Just like any new build designed for doing something someone already did... take DoA.

When I first done DoA, it took em 7 hours to complete Stygian Veil. A short while after, the time was reduced to around 1.5 hours (or a bit more? not so sure here) with the mass SFs and OB tank. Today, with Ursan... no idea what time it takes because my run failed (lol... over aggroing and fighting over chests is very FTL). So... fine by me o.o. What took me 7 hours took 1.5 hours for the next generation of builds, and probably takes less with Ursan. (BTW this isn't a complain, just an observation - I couldn't care less if they did it in 45 minutes or 15... although at 15 I'd probably think of an exploit).

And it's the same for some items and armors. I got my necro's FoW armor when ectos were 8.5k-9k each, and today price on ectos are 4.5k-5k. If you take a look at it, I paid much more for my own set... and I don't care if it's worth less today. I still like the thing. I made quick calculations on what I spent on it (816.5k - ectos, shards and crafting costs - had farmed ectos/shards), the total value (1.217.500 IIRC) and the current total value (745k?). I'll re-do the maths in class 'cause I gotta go soon.

My point isn't to show off that my armor was over the million gold when I bought it - it's to show that now it's only 750k-ish and that I don't care if it's worth less :P. I doubt I'm the only one who's got this mindset.

I kinda feel bad for the people who pray exorbitant prices (1005e+armbraces+such) over items that will be available to the masses after (eternal blade, for one) since if they'd have waited a bit... they'd probably be paying 100k+couple hundred ectos and not 1500e.

I was, of course, making a joke to show just how awful the OP's attitude is.

Rhedd, I love how your post evolves from " Now, now, everyone should be nicer to the OP." to "EDIT: After posting, I reread the original post. He really, REALLY sucks. A lot.".

I lol'd irl.

Last I checked the most elite armor was FoW and that costs a heck of a lot more then 150k........

As for me I could really give a crud what anyone else says about my armor, weapons etc. I don't buy things just to get compliments from others or feel leet. I get those items because they are the ones I LIKE! Big difference..

As for tomes and such those might be available to a new player but the odds of them having skills unlocked etc etc is slim to none. So yes it might be available for them but it sure doesn't mean they can use them.

Get over yourself and realize it isn't all about you.

To the OP: Cry less and grow up, It's a GAME you didn't lose profit in real life.
Also, this is like real life, old stuff prices get lower while new ones are up.

Good day.
- Ganni

^ Agreed. More playing and less crying is always a good thing.

Are "hardcore" players getting less since the updates? No. They can have the same, so I hardly see how punishment comes into this...