What is your view of GW2 having a non-instanced explorable world?
Darksun
I love the persistent world idea SO MUCH. As great as instances are (and they will STILL be there) The lack of community and unified world feel really hurts GW. I am so looking forward to this..
SpeedyKQ
The lack of 100% instancing is the only reason I'm not completely stoked about GW2. I play GW and not any other MMO because of the instancing.
If I fire up a virtual world, I want it to revolve around me. If most everything that happens is determined by other people's actions and largely out of my control, it just feels random and less fun.
Maybe Anet will find a way to mitigate the most annoying parts of instancing, or a small enough percentage of the world will be persistent, such that the game isn't ruined. I love GW too much to not at least TRY GW2 and see.
If I fire up a virtual world, I want it to revolve around me. If most everything that happens is determined by other people's actions and largely out of my control, it just feels random and less fun.
Maybe Anet will find a way to mitigate the most annoying parts of instancing, or a small enough percentage of the world will be persistent, such that the game isn't ruined. I love GW too much to not at least TRY GW2 and see.
mazza558
How about this:
-Towns/Outposts act like they do now
-Leaving an outpost to an explorable connects you to a non-instanced area (like a town works now). You can switch between instances of an explorable.
-Other players fade in from a distance (depending on the amount of players in the explorable - e.g if you're in a busy explorable, you'll only see people in compass range, but if you're in a quiet area, you can see people (or their name tags) from very far away. This could work by the explorable scaling - e.g at busy times, the area is divided geographically into more zones which are invisible and seamless, and when it's quieter, the zones reduce to just one for the whole explorable.
-Anything which is purely storyline-based (e.g quests, missions etc) is set in instanced areas. This should comprise of half the game's content at least. Anything which does not directly let people progress in the storyline should be non-instanced (except dungeons).
-Anything repeatable, like defending borders between rival races, dragon attacks, etc etc, are all in non-instanced areas.
-Parties are formed dynamically outside towns. Simply click on another person and if they accept, you're in a party. This solves kill-stealing from repeatable quests, as parties will be quicker to kill bosses than solitary players. Anyone who contributed damage/hexes/shouts/healing in the radius of the boss is eligible for a drop (and exp), which is then allocated to that person if they're lucky.
-Dynamic henchmen implemented in these areas. Rather than choosing a H/H party, nearby allies (e.g in Istan it would be Sunspear Scouts) would come and help depending on the busyness of the area. If these die, they will not respawn for a while.
Thoughts?
-Towns/Outposts act like they do now
-Leaving an outpost to an explorable connects you to a non-instanced area (like a town works now). You can switch between instances of an explorable.
-Other players fade in from a distance (depending on the amount of players in the explorable - e.g if you're in a busy explorable, you'll only see people in compass range, but if you're in a quiet area, you can see people (or their name tags) from very far away. This could work by the explorable scaling - e.g at busy times, the area is divided geographically into more zones which are invisible and seamless, and when it's quieter, the zones reduce to just one for the whole explorable.
-Anything which is purely storyline-based (e.g quests, missions etc) is set in instanced areas. This should comprise of half the game's content at least. Anything which does not directly let people progress in the storyline should be non-instanced (except dungeons).
-Anything repeatable, like defending borders between rival races, dragon attacks, etc etc, are all in non-instanced areas.
-Parties are formed dynamically outside towns. Simply click on another person and if they accept, you're in a party. This solves kill-stealing from repeatable quests, as parties will be quicker to kill bosses than solitary players. Anyone who contributed damage/hexes/shouts/healing in the radius of the boss is eligible for a drop (and exp), which is then allocated to that person if they're lucky.
-Dynamic henchmen implemented in these areas. Rather than choosing a H/H party, nearby allies (e.g in Istan it would be Sunspear Scouts) would come and help depending on the busyness of the area. If these die, they will not respawn for a while.
Thoughts?
Numa Pompilius
I like instancing.
I like the general idea of a big persistent world, but in reality the world isn't big enough.
I hated, in Everquest 2, to have to wait for mobs to respawn so I could kill them. I hated having random people milling around talking about Justin Timberlake or selling stuff when I was in a supposedly epic battle against some Lord of Slightly Evil.
I like, in Guildwars, that I can play the way I want at the pace I want without random higher-level passers-by killing my mobs while shouting "OMG NOOB!".
I also like, in Guildwars, that there are no servers. I don't have to decide on which server to play on, and stay there forever.
Frankly I don't see the appeal of persistence over instance, unless we're talking pvp-anywhere.
I like the general idea of a big persistent world, but in reality the world isn't big enough.
I hated, in Everquest 2, to have to wait for mobs to respawn so I could kill them. I hated having random people milling around talking about Justin Timberlake or selling stuff when I was in a supposedly epic battle against some Lord of Slightly Evil.
I like, in Guildwars, that I can play the way I want at the pace I want without random higher-level passers-by killing my mobs while shouting "OMG NOOB!".
I also like, in Guildwars, that there are no servers. I don't have to decide on which server to play on, and stay there forever.
Frankly I don't see the appeal of persistence over instance, unless we're talking pvp-anywhere.
Vinraith
Persistence is a deal breaker for me. All you have to do is turn on local chat in any major city to understand why I think being forced to play with these people would be an unpleasant experience.
Mordakai
Frankly, I could do without the whole "collect x naga hides" or "get the head of x" quests. That seems to be the most bone of contention in Persistant areas with camping, loot stealing, etc.
One possible downside of Persistant areas is the respawning... I've already been killed in WoW by hanging in an area too long, and having a mob respawn around me.... oops!
I like the idea of NPCs helping in a fight, although not necessarily in your party. Maybe you could even ask one to "join" you for a limited time / radius.
Anyway, a lot of ideas of how this could work, and I'm really excited about seeing how Anet will implement persistant areas, esp after seeing the pros and cons by playing WoW.
If they do it right, you won't be forced to do anything.
One possible downside of Persistant areas is the respawning... I've already been killed in WoW by hanging in an area too long, and having a mob respawn around me.... oops!
I like the idea of NPCs helping in a fight, although not necessarily in your party. Maybe you could even ask one to "join" you for a limited time / radius.
Anyway, a lot of ideas of how this could work, and I'm really excited about seeing how Anet will implement persistant areas, esp after seeing the pros and cons by playing WoW.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Vinraith
Persistence is a deal breaker for me. All you have to do is turn on local chat in any major city to understand why I think being forced to play with these people would be an unpleasant experience.
|
Lord Feathers
People say they want persistant areas so they can meet and game with other people. Hell 95% of the people I've meet in PUGS are folks that are now on my ignore list or people I hope to never run into again. Let me make my own instance and pick the folks I want to game with and not force a situation on me.
Master Knightfall
Personally I can hear the arguing and name calling now. "You dolt that was my smite crawler I'm /reporting you for KSing me." lol That will be just one of the issues. All you have to do is take a look at Wintersday and the running after presents in Lions Arch or Kamadan. I've never heard so much screaming and QQing over someone getting a present you were standing there waiting for the spawn. (I love doin that myself haha). You do not OWN anything in this game and that's the way it's going to be in GW2 in the non-instanced areas and I'm damn sure going to take my fair share of whatever loot, mobs that spawn either by nook crook or dare. lol But, yes the QQing will commence the very first day I betcha. As long as you go into the game realizing you don't own anything and it's fair game for everyone you won't get so frustrated and angry. I know I don't (as I steal your presentes before your very eyes, gotta love cable connections) 
Sirius-NZ
There are ways to fix most of the problems with non-instanced areas. You don't have to play with the other people there.
Buster
It is about time. Persistent world with instanced dungeons and missions ftw!
Some of the reasons why alot of people left Guild Wars was the level cap issue and lack of persistent world. I'm happy to see both are being addressed in Guild Wars 2.
Some of the reasons why alot of people left Guild Wars was the level cap issue and lack of persistent world. I'm happy to see both are being addressed in Guild Wars 2.
Malice Black
As long as you can map travel. Having to walk for an hour or 2 isn't my idea of fun.
Medic
From what I have read it sounds like dungeons/missions will be instanced while the rest of the world will be persistant, Thumbs up to that idea imo
Malice Black
Persistent world would mean GW losses it's casual player friendly tag.
Operative 14
I hope that they mix it, and make it so that missions as we have them now are instanced, towns are a seperate area, and explorable areas are persistant.
I'm really quite excited about the prospect of a persistant world, I would love to be able to just walk out and meet my friends at the beach. However, as many have said, I would still like to be able to farm or play by myself sometimes.
Though, here's an idea, how about as a way to keep drops from being stolen, they are customized like they are now? The system is already in place to prevent people from stealing your loot, all they need to do is keep it.
I'm really quite excited about the prospect of a persistant world, I would love to be able to just walk out and meet my friends at the beach. However, as many have said, I would still like to be able to farm or play by myself sometimes.
Though, here's an idea, how about as a way to keep drops from being stolen, they are customized like they are now? The system is already in place to prevent people from stealing your loot, all they need to do is keep it.
Master Knightfall
But, will gain a whole new world of participants from games like WOW, EQ, DAOC, AO, AC and the rest. So, the sacrifice of a few carebear casuals won't mean anything to them as they will get more sales out of those that enjoy persistant worlds and no monthly fee.
englitdaudelin
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Master Knightfall
Personally I can hear the arguing and name calling now. "You dolt that was my smite crawler I'm /reporting you for KSing me." lol That will be just one of the issues. All you have to do is take a look at Wintersday and the running after presents in Lions Arch or Kamadan. I've never heard so much screaming and QQing over someone getting a present you were standing there waiting for the spawn. (I love doin that myself haha). You do not OWN anything in this game and that's the way it's going to be in GW2 in the non-instanced areas and I'm damn sure going to take my fair share of whatever loot, mobs that spawn either by nook crook or dare. lol But, yes the QQing will commence the very first day I betcha. As long as you go into the game realizing you don't own anything and it's fair game for everyone you won't get so frustrated and angry. I know I don't (as I steal your presentes before your very eyes, gotta love cable connections)
|
If I'm in PvE, I want it to STAY PvE,
not become PvE and PvEveryoneWhoFeelsLikeStealingMyLootOrKillingMeBec auseI'mNoobierOrBecauseHeHasFasterInternetConnecti on.
I tried WoW, very briefly, and did not like the presence of people. Turning off local chat helped, but I found the intrusion of dancing undead mages kind of annoying.
I did like the fact that my friend very easily found me, that we could party up--but Instancing's got that too.
Many of the advantages posted, seem to me to still be doable in instances--meetups, quick PuGs, etc. The overwhelming advantage to persistence is a sense of a large world, a sense that your actions have consequence in the world. Would I like to see that? Sure. Would I give up the peace that GW and its instances currently give me in trade for that? Nah.
I guess the happy compromise I'd accept: MOSTLY instanced quest areas and explorable areas; Persistent cities, as we have; and several or many persistent LARGE (i.e. the size of all of Vabbi, or all of the Shiverpeaks, etc...) explorable areas. I would even accept questing in these areas, so long as those quests are not fully dependent on the mobs around (i.e. go talk to this NPC located in the butt-end of a giant persistent area loaded with critters...)...You could even create multiple "districts" of this area (like with towns and cities and outposts) to load groups into--so I couldn't walk into a persistent area with NO baddies to kill, since they've all been killed by the hundreds of people ahead of me?--but this might defeat the whole idea of persistence.
So....I'd like it both ways, I suppose. But please don't take my instances!
Dev121
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Malice Black
Persistent world would mean GW losses it's casual player friendly tag.
|
Mordakai
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by DeVaNeY121
Yes because taking 1000 hours to get enough gold for max armor is casual friendly.
|
You can get that by doing all the Cantha starter missions and selling everything that drops.
But, back to Malice's point:
How do Persistant areas = less casual?
I consider myself as casual player, and I enjoy WoW's instances. If anything, it's easier to solo areas, because people are around to help out.
bel unbreakable
i think the problem with guild wars its game that thinks its casual played by a player base that i recon have put in thousands of hours play
pleanty to do if you are casual not a lot if your not cant wait for guildwars 2
pleanty to do if you are casual not a lot if your not cant wait for guildwars 2
ensoriki
depends what you mean by non instanced.
in Nostale, you have a non instanced map
But there are many seperate maps,
Would this be one Huge Map, with a couple seperate maps
And then a couple instanced maps
Generally Persistant areas mean grind
Things like he who plays the game most, grinds to level 70/99/255 first
in Nostale, you have a non instanced map
But there are many seperate maps,
Would this be one Huge Map, with a couple seperate maps
And then a couple instanced maps
Quote:
|
How do Persistant areas = less casual? |
Things like he who plays the game most, grinds to level 70/99/255 first
Bazompora
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Malice Black
Persistent world would mean GW losses it's casual player friendly tag.
|
I hate it <in the fully-instanced GW1> to have to say "sorry, I'm halfway in my objective allready. We'll meet up another time"; but then again, I also hate it to abort my progress. Persistancy should remove this kind of dilemma.
R.Shayne
I really don't want to play with most of the people I have meet in Guild Wars. I like guild wars over all other mmo because of the instances and now you are going to take half of that away.
Well they better make it so I can add an un-limited number of people to my ignore list, because I got a feeling I will spend a large amount of my time pasting names into the ignore list.
The one good thing about all this is that just maybe they will stop messing up GW1 with skill balancing. Oh please make sure they take izzy with them to GW2.
Well they better make it so I can add an un-limited number of people to my ignore list, because I got a feeling I will spend a large amount of my time pasting names into the ignore list.
The one good thing about all this is that just maybe they will stop messing up GW1 with skill balancing. Oh please make sure they take izzy with them to GW2.
JeniM
When i think of persistant areas i think of people "ganking" lower level players.
I really hope they don't force pvp on us like some of the released info sounds like they will
I really hope they don't force pvp on us like some of the released info sounds like they will
Turtle222
Im glad to see so many people looking forward to this cool feature
Lonesamurai
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ensoriki
Generally Persistant areas mean grind
Things like he who plays the game most, grinds to level 70/99/255 first |
In 90% instanced games like WoW, people grind the instances for the loot
It will very quickly become apparent that good players will always be better than grindy players because most of those grindy players will get to whatever max level there is, jump into the mists and get hammered by PvP'ers
Not too mention no ganking or PK'ing will be great too
Saraphim
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by JeniM
When i think of persistant areas i think of people "ganking" lower level players.
I really hope they don't force pvp on us like some of the released info sounds like they will |
Me, I'm looking forward to it. I still have enough faith in Anet to make a great game and incorporate some of things I love about more traditional MMOs - which isn't ganking or kill stealing.
Isileth
I much prefer instanced areas myself.
It does away with camping, kill stealing, idiots in with you, training onto other groups etc.
Also with instanced areas you are fine to go afk because nothing is going to respawn and kill you, no one can train mobs into you etc.
It however looks like GW2 will be going down a traditional MMORPG route rather than stick with CORPG. Cant say im a big MMORPG fan so its deffinately not something that appeals to me.
It does away with camping, kill stealing, idiots in with you, training onto other groups etc.
Also with instanced areas you are fine to go afk because nothing is going to respawn and kill you, no one can train mobs into you etc.
It however looks like GW2 will be going down a traditional MMORPG route rather than stick with CORPG. Cant say im a big MMORPG fan so its deffinately not something that appeals to me.
freekedoutfish
As long as it doesnt require a monthly fee, and we dont have to spend hours queing for monster respawns, ill be happy.
X Ice Man X
There should be an option, such as the current Hard Mode/Normal Mode one, where you can select for a more social time playing with other people around or where you can select to have your own space where other people are not around so you are able to go on with stuff that you want to get done and not have to worry about other people being around spawn camping stuff.
That would be the best option, because personally I enjoy being able to get just on with stuff by my self with or without Heroes and Hench when I want to, without having to worry about anything else getting in the way, such as if i was trying to solo something just to see if I could do it. It would annoy me no end if every time I was doing it somebody ran along and started to "help me" deal with the monster.
I enjoy Guild Wars because it doesn't force me to play with other people if I don't wish to do so.
That would be the best option, because personally I enjoy being able to get just on with stuff by my self with or without Heroes and Hench when I want to, without having to worry about anything else getting in the way, such as if i was trying to solo something just to see if I could do it. It would annoy me no end if every time I was doing it somebody ran along and started to "help me" deal with the monster.
I enjoy Guild Wars because it doesn't force me to play with other people if I don't wish to do so.
cebalrai
This is a silly discussion IMO. It all depends on how Anet implements non-instanced areas. There are a ton of different ways they could do it, and they've said they're going to avoid the pitfalls of other instanced MMOs... Whatever that means.
But for now we shouldn't even bother having this discussion. People are praising or bemoaning something they know *nothing* about. It's all speculation.
Mods should close this thread like they've closed other speculation-type threads before IMO.
But for now we shouldn't even bother having this discussion. People are praising or bemoaning something they know *nothing* about. It's all speculation.
Mods should close this thread like they've closed other speculation-type threads before IMO.
Mordakai
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by cebalrai
This is a silly discussion IMO. It all depends on how Anet implements non-instanced areas. There are a ton of different ways they could do it, and they've said they're going to avoid the pitfalls of other instanced MMOs... Whatever that means.
But for now we shouldn't even bother having this discussion. People are praising or bemoaning something they know *nothing* about. It's all speculation. Mods should close this thread like they've closed other speculation-type threads before IMO. |
Therefore, Anet needs to hear the pros and cons of what actual GW players think on Persistant areas.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Bazompora
On the contrary; the instanced world system requires much more investment in order to build or maintain social relations, than a persistant world, where you meet people or gather up ,while questing/farming.
I hate it <in the fully-instanced GW1> to have to say "sorry, I'm halfway in my objective allready. We'll meet up another time"; but then again, I also hate it to abort my progress. Persistancy should remove this kind of dilemma. |
DarkWasp
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mordakai
I strongly disagree. These forums are the fans only access to Anet. It's been proven that they read these forums, and actually carry through on some suggestions.
Therefore, Anet needs to hear the pros and cons of what actual GW players think on Persistant areas. |
Games that are straight to the point and only have "important stuff" really do get borring, especialy MMOs. In LOTRO i'd play the lute or jump over people's heads while waiting for an AFK friend to come back. Non-Instanced explorables are a perfect workbench for random entertainment, it really is a good system for a MMO and I trust Anet to pull it off without making a repeat of WoW and LOTRO.
(Oh and, anyone who knows maybe how to write an if/then in BASIC, has a 0.5% right to declare how much time it will take Arena.Net to code.)
So Yes to non-instanced exploring.
And Yes to seemingly non-important entertaining aspects.
Vinraith
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Mordakai
If they do it right, you won't be forced to do anything.
|
I find it bizarre that so many people want a persistent game world but leave local chat off at all times in GW. The people you're (rightly) ignoring are exactly the people you're asking to share a game world with. Have fun with that, I'll be playing something else.
Dwimmerlaik
non-instanced explorable worlds are garbage concepts for every other fantasy MMO out there - stay true to your roots, ArenaNet. Creating another open, persistent world is akin to creating just another fantasy MMO - and with that WoW juggernaut there, you're more than likely going to fail... unless you somehow dumb a game down to such a base, primitive level that every idiot with a PC can play it effectively.
Saraphim
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Vinraith
I find it bizarre that so many people want a persistent game world but leave local chat off at all times in GW. The people you're (rightly) ignoring are exactly the people you're asking to share a game world with. Have fun with that, I'll be playing something else.
|
Besides I don't think anywhere it's been stated that it will be completely persistent, I linked to an interview in another thread (locked in Sardelac) that talks about quests and missions chained across both styles of explorable.
super strokey
only real thing im wondering abotu GW2 is if all the spells are gonna transfer over with teh same effects and names lol
Turtle222
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Vinraith
What utter nonsense. By definition, a persistent world forces you into contact with other players. They are moving about in the game world, attacking stuff you'd like to attack, completing quests you'd like to complete, and generally being in the way. There's no way to ignore them.
I find it bizarre that so many people want a persistent game world but leave local chat off at all times in GW. The people you're (rightly) ignoring are exactly the people you're asking to share a game world with. Have fun with that, I'll be playing something else. |
Bazompora
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Vinraith
By definition, a persistent world forces you into contact with other players.
|
Besides, by definition, the instanced world forces you to isolate yourself from public, when out for action.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dwimmerlaik
stay true to your roots, ArenaNet.
|
if GW2 = only (GW1 + Z-axis + playable races)
then it will likely not be in measure to regain attention sufficienty after the long wait after GW1.
However, I do not think that creating a more sociable environment and giving PvP an undiminishing position breaks away from Arenanet's "root" ideals.
Darksun
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
I also like, in Guildwars, that there are no servers. I don't have to decide on which server to play on, and stay there forever.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Vinraith
What utter nonsense. By definition, a persistent world forces you into contact with other players. They are moving about in the game world, attacking stuff you'd like to attack, completing quests you'd like to complete, and generally being in the way. There's no way to ignore them.
|
Ouchie
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Darksun
Not sure what you are getting at here, but GW2 won't be split into servers.
|
