What is your view of GW2 having a non-instanced explorable world?

PK and proud of it?? This is precisely why I want my own instance!
And if persistence will be added, so penalties for PK must be immediate perma-ban!

Or, just don't allow PKing at all if not in a PvP area.

Honestly, probably my least worry of Persistant areas.

When I played it was a different kind of kill stealing people complained about

"don't kill my mobs get away" with more vibrant language inserted - one guy stands in a corner killing over and over the same mob for 7-12 hours straight and gets mad at anyone else who tries to kill them - even though there is a quest to kill them.

That is where the different servers made a difference the most populated had the most problems with camping mobs so when starting up you simply went to a server less people were on

You could report them then for griefing in GW 2. (also I play on Brandywine and never encountered a problem such as that).

And without instances this is the type of people I expect to encounter. Again ANET please make sure my Ignore list is unlimited in the number of people I can add to it.

Do you really want to be forced to play with these people?

ugh.. They already stated that based on the test they did persistent worlds were no more difficult or intensive to manage than instanced. That was the main reason they felt free to move over.

Does LoTRO have monks (Never played it)? Monks don't attack, they heal and what you just described means that a monk will never get a drop. Currently Healing Monks in Guild Wars are rare and the system you described would make it actually worse.

Being forced to buy anything I really want is not acceptable. I like the Bramble Sword skin (not a rare drop) but I still went out and got it myself. Call it thrill of the hunt if you want. I am currently farming for a rare drop that is overfarmed. It is bad enough that I am competing with poeple that only want it so they can make a profit because of the way the game is scripted to handle over farming but to be forced to look for a server where a spawn site is not being farmed / camped is not acceptable (especially if you have to run 15 minutes just to get to the spawn site) and then get reported because you are camping at a spawn site.


Charge to map travel, that is fine as long as the fee is less then 1g.

Yeah I am all for instances and for selected parties.

That's true, but most critical MOBs are in instances, so it's mitigated somewhat. And, again, this is one of those things where fostering a more intelligent, mature community really helps. There are a lot fewer jerks in LOTRO, so it really doesn't happen as often. Really, the main complaint I hear in LOTRO is people "ninja'ing" natural resources, but resource gathering is a free-for-all by design, so tough luck on that.

It is, but the boss respawns are much quicker (since, unlike WoW, they're usually out of the way so it's not as common to wander into them and get wiped out by mistake) and, like I said, most of the "boss-type" enemies aren't quest-related (unless they're in an instance).

For example, consider the Wasterwander bandit you have to kill in Desolation as part of a Wanted: quest. That guy wanders a HUGE area, is usually being hunted by three or four people at once, and respawns slowly. A similar enemy in LOTRO is typically positioned such that he can be completed simultaneously with at least one other quest (which helps cut back the number of people who are hunting him at once), doesn't patrol nearly as large an area, and respawns every few minutes (most bosses seem to respawn within 2 to 3 minutes).

Boss hunts in the main world are really much less of a hassle than in WoW by many, many magnitudes. WoW ruins people on the entire persistence theme because the entire design of that game is complete crap from start to never-ending-lack-of-a-finish. Most of the annoying things in WoW don't HAVE to persist, they just do because Blizzard knows a lot of silly people will keep paying them month after month if they waste enough of their time.

You can do that in LOTRO too, but they don't stay bound for very long if you're running and they're not hitting (as would happen with a high level greifer), so just keeping them chasing indefinitely isn't really feasible. In fact, it's kind of a problem occasionally for farming because it's difficult to get a really good group surrounding you for AoE farming if you're too high of a level.

Turbine accepts harrassment reports for that sort of thing in LOTRO too.

Minstrels, yes. And, of course they will get drops. MOB lock and loot distribution is PARTY based (even if you're a party of 1), not player based. Loot of higher quality can be implemented as a free-for-all system, Need verus Greed system, or a simple Round Robin dice roll (which is basically the Guild Wars version with the ability to "opt-out" of the roll if you want to).

I don't really know how to put this other than... too bad. It looks like it's going to be an MMO, and most people seem happy about that. If you want a 1 player game with a chat room, you might try Diablo 2. Not being snippy or anything, it's just that it seems like you're main gripe here is that it's not a one player game so you'll have to actually compete with other people to do something that is a very minor part of the overall game, and entirely your own choice....

Of course, the counter argument is, just happening once is bad enough.


Do they actually use those terms, or are you just using the terms from WoW?

Eh.... No. If I play the demo of GW2 and it plays like WoW, I'm not going to buy it. WoW is 3 years old, so I can excuse the fed-ex and kill "x" quests, spawn camping, resource griefing, random duel challenges, etc. (BTW, despite these things, WoW is still fun to play, so I'm NOT bashing WoW)

But for a "next-gen" game not move the bar up any higher?

Inexcusable. I want Guild Wars 2 to revolutionize MMORPGs. Yes, I'm holding it to higher standards, frankly because I've seen what Anet can do, and expect them to do even better.


EDIT (since we're discussing MMORPGs, it's silly to leave WoW out of the discussion)

I'll also add here that WoW is probably going to have to re-structure its game as well. I don't know how long they can just keep bumping up the level cap and have people grind for their next Epic Tier armor before people get sick of it, and newbies will have too high to climb to even bother.

This is only your perspective the LOTRO forums show that many feel that ninja'ing is not fair and rude.


But bosses dropped items needed for crafting and that was a large part of the game

People would train mobs on other people - they would be designated as someone elses for loot but you would have to fight them or let them kill you.


agreed

the need/greed/pass was a huge controversy especially in pugs where one person always needed everything.

Free for all just meant the fastest to click got everything.

I think people are worried about a fair system being input into GW2. Some people like to upset other people that is why they play, some people like to ninja, but the majority just want a fair share. No game will be perfect, but maybe some ideas posted here will give the GW2 team some extra insights.

Or you could just not come in here since you don't care about it. Obviously you're just wanting to troll and toss out some flame bait.

80(in Wrath of the Lich King) is probably going to stay as the cap for a long time. They can easily add more content later (Emerald Dream, South Seas, Maelstorm) without raising the cap after that. And considering the relative power of Arthas, it would make sense I should think.

Agreed.

I don't expect drops to be an issue: they can do assigned drops like they have now, or even (gasp!) design a system that drops weapons you actually NEED.

I know it's convention, but does every RPG have to drop a bunch of crap we can't use?

I hope so. My goal now is to get to level 70 before WotLK. But, it sounds like I'll be able to make a Death Knight even if I'm not level 70, so it's all good...

I have a feeling, in regards to kill stealling, that GW will take a simpler rout.

That being you have to deal X amount of damage to a foe to gain exp/drops and the exp will be based upon your lvl rather than number of people fighitng the monster. For non damage type chars you would have to be partied with a damage char to gain exp. Not a perfect system, but you get the idea.

Untill they release a functioning beta we are all just guessing about what COULD be wrong.

WotLK isn't out in awhile. People needsta stop frettin 'bout this!

...Of course, I would love it if it got here sooner. My guilds weren't able to get into Naxx when it was first released.

I can't wait to be a level 70 Assassin hiding outside the gates of noob towns and locking them down, PKing any noob to step out. WAHWAHHAHA

Minstrels heal, and they have attacks (like monks have smite) and like it's been said drops are assigned. Also monks do attack, monks protect and monks heal, don't know what Guild Wars you've been playing. Plus who's to say there will be monks in Guild Wars 2? And if they're are and Anet puts in a system like that do you think that they'll just leave it the way you state? I doubt it.
Not forced, it's just an easier option and it's totally acceptable when the price is cheap enough. Using a Bramble Sword as an example, more than one mob will drop it. Anything rare would most likely need a party, if you didn't like that..well *puts up talk to the hand*. That's about it, it's rare for a reason and if you don't want to buy it or party then you're playing the wrong game. Also Anet has stated that there will be no servers (pretty sure I read that in this thread) and just one server, maybe for each place (like we have now).

Depending on the distance actually, 50g-1k would be good. Maybe 2-3k for special areas. That's not much. If it's too much for you..well maybe you need to go somewhere else.

Heh at least the healers can do everything that everyone can in Lotro & GW, monks(healers) are much better here. Think about doing something as a Holy Priest on WoW.

Slowly painfull to do anything (gather gold for example solo) as you can only spam smite so much before the sound starts to get on your nerves. Now thats slow.

However on the topic, i think opening the gw-world from the wraps (instances) can be quite a good decision. We're not so lonely anymore even outside towns thus the world feels more alive. I believe that Anet can solve the spawn camping for monsters or design quests in such a way where you don't have to deal with single monster - spawns (ie. kill that boss). WoW has basically solved this by "the faster they're killed - the faster they respawn", in the early days the respawns were slow but after that there was hardly any problems questing on highly populated zones.

Open-world but instanced dungeons(main quests), i'd like it .

I'm all for GW2 having continuous world because one of the MAJOR griefs my friends have with Guild Wars now is the instancing. We all have to meet in town/outpost and it has to be in the same district. Its such hassle to deal with. It discouraged a lot co-opt play. I ended up replacing my friends with heroes/henchmen. How sad is that for what is supposed to be a community-based online game.

Second biggest complaint is the lack of leveling up beyond Level 20. Personally I like the level cap at level 20. Many regular MMO players couldn't see past the cap or figure out why GW did such a thing. Most veteran GW players fully understand its implementation. The cap is there to do 2 things limit the need for grinding in PvE and keep things balanced in PvP.

As much as I like the cap, I would like to see GW2 do away with the whole xp=level thing. Instead I would have some other means of gaining attribute points. Maybe by quests/missions that award attribute points, but I'd put a cap of 170 (level 20) attribute points a character can have.


I think having XP bar gives the impression there's an inherent need to grind. So I would get rid of XP bar and turn it into a title based amount of kills a character had, which would give them the privilege to display their status/rank. So for example...after the first 100 kills your title would be Adventurer, then Pioneer after 500 kills, Veteran after 1000 kills, Conqueror after 5000 kills , and finally the title Legendary with 100,000 kills. I would also make it so if you killing feeble mobs, you're not getting awarded with the kill. You have to kill something that meets your status/rank (level) or greater.

So instead of saying I'm a level 20 N/Me, I could say I'm a Pioneer Necromancer/Mesmer.

As for map travel, I don't like it in a persistent world because it negates the whole point of having such a vast world out there. I wouldn't mind Asuran portals that charged you based on distance. I think it should be more costly than mounts. Lets face it Mounts are a money sink for WoW and it be nice to roam around on a Minatuar or griffon. I want to bring the adventuring back into MMO's.

Shadow Form farmers will be yelling for everyone to get away

Love it...and would extremely love an FFA Arena (FFA=Free For All). Always wanted that kinda thing in GW, maybe its a possibility in GW2

What happens to the skill system?

Is it goinna be like other Persistant games where its

Okay start building up your stats from level 1.

Oh god please no, I don't want to have to start like 8 different characters of the same class because 1 is a VIT STR DEX hybrid or a CHA LUK assassin or whatever.

i'll pass. i play gws for gws. gws2 looks more and more like wow with each turn, and for that, im totally disappointed.

Just because most well known Persistant games have been like that, why would ANet need to follow that model? I heavily doubt they are going to abandon one of the more unique selling-points of the game, its M:TG-ish basis of skill over grind...

Yup, the impression I'm left with from the pre-press is that GW2 is being designed for people that don't particularly like GW. You know, the kind of GW player that says at every turn "I wish this game was more like WoW/Everquest/random other MMORPG."

wont be buying it if this is the case. Dont like it, wont play it and certainly wont spend money it!

hope its not to laggy

Not only does GW1's Map Travel negate the vastness of the game world, it also removes immersion by cutting out portions of dimentions without backing it up with a system rooted in lore.
Asuran Portals <on the other hand> would keep the game still "rush-through-able" for the "casual amongst the casual players" etcetera, all the while not taking away a dimension of immersion for those that want to take the game more seriously.
But also: an Asuran Portal system <as replacement for GW1's not-integrated-in-the-setting Map Travel system> would allow for a portion of the outposts to remain out of the system.

Wouldn't it make the world alot more versatile and interesting if a few of the outposts <that are of no importance for the main story line, of course> would really be isolated locations, wrapped upon their own local atmosphere, by being excluded from the MapTravel/AsuranPortal network?

Asuran portals are 2 way machines as far as we've seen.

And screw lore if it destroys 70% of anything enjoyable that is the reason I play GW

Map travel doesn't ruin anything. I generally still walk to a place if its close by and am always up for exploration. Immersion should be a choice. Once you're on your 3rd or 4th toon you stop caring about how the trees look and just want to get to where you need to go.

I enjoy the pros and cons of both an instanced and non instanced game world. I'll probably be buying Guild Wars 2 when it comes out. Personally, since I'm indifferent, it doesn't make or break my choice whether or not to buy it. That depends on other elements of gameplay that I like/dislike.

I'm amused by your comments. I find it funny that you want a social game to be anti-social. The mere fact that you are posting on a GW community board mocks your whole point about wanting to avoid jerks. How do you deal with the jerks on this messageboard? It certainly hasn't stop you from posting here as obviously you can hand a few comments thrown your way.

That being said, I think you underestimate your own ability to cope with what GW2 might be like as persistent world. There have been numerous of examples of how other games, including GW has dealt with negatives (loot-stealing, boss-camping, and unwanted assassinations) of MMOs. I'm not saying GW2 will be free of problems but give ArenaNet the benefit of doubt when it comes to these issues.

They have stated that they are very much aware of the negatives of traditional persistent MMOs. Are you that cynical to not believe them? Why would ArenaNet make a sequel if only to deliberately screw it up? Again, they know the problems, and they are going attempt to fix, alter or reduce it any way they can.

Immersion should indeed be a choice; but that's exactly what a 100% Map Travel network will ruin in a persistent world: without exclusions, the whole inhabited world will merely be like one single megapolis.

Why not a few isolated towns aside of that 1 huge block of subway-stations?

As far as the travel system I do hope they do away with this instant travel mess as it just takes away the immersion of a real world. You wouldn't be able to do this in any other world I've ever seen except the GW world. Even Everquest doesn't have complete instant travel system. What I would like to see is a return to the roots of long distance traveling and druids and wizards would have the ability to teleport you to various locations in the world. They would have to build up to these skills as they would have level requirements (no level 1's would be doing this) and they would be elite elite skills theyw ould have to get in some of the hardest areas of the game. They could not be gotten from BOOKS either. These would be quest/mission only transportation skills and then we (druids/wizards) could make a profit teleporting people around like we did in Everquest.


Someone said: Welp Everquest is 10 years old now and still doing it. Ultima Online still doing it and it's even older. DAOC still doing it not quite as old, but, getting there of course. They all are still doing it and they all are still around. WOW isn't going anywhere for a very long long long time and will still do it and get away with it. Many of them haven't had a level increase inawhile now either. There are certain levels and caps that will be unattainable to the many for years and years so there's no reason to keep jacking them up. What Everquest does though is increase Special Attribute points called AA's that can take a lifetime to max all of those out as well. Everquest actually has the best system all around except for one thing and that is spawn camping and camping in general. That got old after awhile. I had more fun going back to lower level areas and having lots of moving around fights with mobs than I ever did just standing/sitting in one spot pulling the same thing over and over or waiting for the same boss mob to spawn over n over. I like GW movement style of adventuring, I just don't like the small level caps and no power increases or character and loot evolving an advancements. The loot content in GW is horrible and now it has become way too easy for everyone to get ahold of anything just about out of that Zashiens chest. That was the worst implementation of drops of all kinds ever into the game. Once again moving more people out of the PVE game into the PVP game because of the ease it is to gain Balth faction.

QFT

Since EQ1 persistent worlds have been largely unchanged (funny how that works out, neh?) and I've not seen a game with persistent world environment that could ever claim to break this mold. Farmers will be in GW2...just like every other MORPG ever made. Farmers--for experience, mobs, loot, whatever there is to farm in this game, they'll farm it--will camp mobs, they will kill them and you will have to wait until the next group spawns or--often the case in camping situations in a persistent world--the farmers tire and leave, giving you your chance to take over the run.

This is fact. Thinking otherwise is wishful thinking at best or self delusion at worst, imo.

I hated spawn camping in MMOs. i bought GW and played it longer than any other because "I" was in charge. My team had the run of things; henchman based, solo farm or full 8-RL players. We went in. We killed what we needed to, saved who needed saving, w/e. Then we left.

But we've seen the downside to instance as well: hollow towns filled with h/hers who wouldn't touch a PuG if you paid them (literally in some cases). Loot ratios spun completely out of control so that rare drops are more than rare; they're for all intents and purposes non-existent unless guaranteed drops from a chest...which is quickly farmed to the point that your rare drop is worthless/not so rare.

A happy medium? If one exists, it has yet to be found. maybe Anet can; they've done a crackerjack job of breaking "the rules" and succeeding. i mean, before GW1, who would have believed you could have a good RPG online game that didn't require a monthly fee?

But for my money: the less persistence, the better. I want to complete my quests. I want to play through my missions. And I want to crawl through my dungeons. Not yours. And, tbh, I doubt very much you want to crawl through the empty chasm thats left when I'm finished there either.

For the Map-Travel dispute: there isn't one as far as i'm concerned. i like map travel. Re-play value for this game has come from the very sources most hard core players either didn't like or derided. People used to decry how skillpoint resetting was unrealistic; it was common to see someone gripe about that on these forums. What's really unrealistic is having to make 50 different characters to have the build you want to play when you want to play it.
For you, it obviously would. for me and players like me? No it would not.

Map travel may not be 'real" but neither is GW. i don't have the time or inclination to run everywhere...and I don't waste my time on games that waste my time (more than playing a video game is already a waste of my time ). I do NOT like having to spend half an hour running all over e-creation to help a fiend do a twenty minute quest. Is running more realistic? maybe. is it also a pain-in-the-behind-waste-of-my-gaming-time? You bet your bottom dollar!

The OP asked us our views. Those are mine. If you disagree or are offended, I'm...not really sorry, but I hope you will understand that we are just different people and different gamers. TBH: the only time GW1 lost a lot of my interest is after GW:EN. its not because the expansion was so bad. it was because it was the end. Aside from title farming and (finally) getting FoW, there's nothing left for me to beat. No challenge left to prepare for. i've had my ups and downs with my experience playing with Anet, but all in all, its here--at the end--that they kinda lost me. the game itself? if content kept coming, I'd probably keep coming back. Its that good of a design, that good of a game. i hope--with all my gaming heart--that they don't try to WoW clone themselves. it would be both a height of insult to the players who left those 'other" MMOs for this exceptional game and to themselves; those designers who left Blizzard in the first place because they wanted to make a different kind of game than the ones they were.


GGs

Funny thing about WoWs so called persistant world, while true there are generally no seperate outposts and zones, its also true that the game is split into many many servers, subdivided by locale. A character is also tied to that server, and if you want to play with friends, you all need to be on the same physical server.

GW, on the other hand uses instances, but there is 1 server everyone logs into, and you can meet up with anyone across the world (moreso with the recent updates) just by changing districts.

Looking at it that way, are they really so different? I think GWs way of doing things provides more freedom for the users.

As for travel in WoW, its an exercise in time wasting. You literally have to walk/jump/run for miles to reach anywhere. Id rather be actually playing the game than spend it engaging in a virtual hike. Fast travel is convenient, and best of all, its optional. Anyone who likes to partake in 'Immersion' can hit the shoe leather. oh, and have fun travelling from Kourma to Relm of Torment that way.

They've already made a game that was "different" you're playing it. There's no reason to make GW2 the same as GW1 that would be rediculous. The movement to a more presistant world with no level caps or very high ones, unlimited loot and equipment potentials, unlimited character progression would be the next step for a "no monthly fee" type game. GW2 should do that so they can have the populations from both worlds. Those that like the GW1 design can stay there they don't have to play GW2 and those that want a more open and lots more things to do world can play GW2 where the sky can be the limit and people will never run out of things to do. That's what GW2 needs to be. Ever advancing, ever growing, always a quest to do. That's what I really hope GW2 turns out to be. Since there is no reason in hell to mimic GW1.

I do:
personally, I'd like the whole of Map Travel disappear, but I support or advance ideas that could be enjoyed by most gamers and not just me, such as a partial Map Travel network.
See ... a 100% outpost-encompassing Map Travel <like in GW1> would be an option for use, but will not leave the option of immersion: what shread of immersion would be left, if each and every deliberate hike brings me to a place where people will be beaming themselves over and off?

But there is a big difference now in footing it in GW than other MMORPG's at least in them you have paths an avenues that you can bypass any and all combat whereas in GW you have mobs every 10ft and you can't bypass them to save your life. Plus it's more fun if EVERYONE uses the same transport method instead of just a few do this an a few do that. Player transportation methods are the best to me and they should invent a SOW skill so people can get buffs from other players to be able to run faster as they travel to the next town or outpost. They should also make it where one can craft speed buffs as potions to sell them so you can drink a potion and be able to run faster or turn invisible (I loved being invisible in EQ) and stuff like that. I'd really like to see a greatly enhanced crafting system in GW2 as well.

Yeah, I feel a fair bit like that actually. You play GW for a few months, then you run out of interesting things to do. Then an expansion comes out and you play a bit longer, then you run out of interesting things to do again.

So I couldn't say it's my ideal RPG, just the best one running at the moment.