While my favorite profession is by far the Ritualist, the first character I made, way back when, was a Necromancer. Still play him from time to time. I did not follow the cookie-cutter builds that everyone who plays a necromancer insists on running. Instead, I decided to go with blood magic, and not the Blood is Power sort. I asked around for offensive blood magic builds, but the replies I got were all:
"Lulz, bludd magik sux u shud make a Minon mastr"
or something else along those lines. Granted, there are some blood skills that suck, but an entire attribute line? No.
My current PvE build is something like this:
Necro/Mesmer
Blood Magic 12+1+3
All remaining points dumped into Soul Reaping
[card]Vampiric Gaze[/card]
[card]Unholy Feast[/card]
[card]Shadow Strike[/card]
[card]Vampiric Swarm[/card]
[card]Barbed Signet[/card]
[card]Offering of Blood[/card]
[card]Arcane Echo[/card]
[card]Resurrection Signet[/card]
Granted, it's not going to be winning any Hero's Ascent matches, but it actually works really well in PvE, and i've even gotten some thank-yous from Monks who were sick of healing suicidal BiP batteries.
Let the flaming begin...
Straying off the beaten path...
Cosmic Error
Arkantos
The people who said blood magic sucked were...well, right. Compared to curses/death magic, the damage is bad. All of the elites except for OotV (which isn't all that great) suck. Most of the skills suck. It is by far the worst attribute line for necromancer, and there's no reason to run it.
As for your build, your elite is bad. If you need an elite skill to manage your energy as a necromancer, your party isn't killing things fast enough. Soul reaping should be enough to keep your energy stable. Also, your damage is laughable. Overall, the build is pretty bad.
As for your build, your elite is bad. If you need an elite skill to manage your energy as a necromancer, your party isn't killing things fast enough. Soul reaping should be enough to keep your energy stable. Also, your damage is laughable. Overall, the build is pretty bad.
Cosmic Error
[card]Spoil Victor[/card]
[card]Life Siphon[/card] (cover hex)
[card]Vampiric Gaze[/card]
[card]Vampiric Swarm[/card]
[card]Barbed Signet[/card]
[card]Well of Blood[/card]
[card]Arcane Echo[/card]
[card]Resurrection Signet[/card]
How's that?
[card]Life Siphon[/card] (cover hex)
[card]Vampiric Gaze[/card]
[card]Vampiric Swarm[/card]
[card]Barbed Signet[/card]
[card]Well of Blood[/card]
[card]Arcane Echo[/card]
[card]Resurrection Signet[/card]
How's that?
Arkantos
Your damage is still bad. SV is basically a conditional SS with more damage and no AoE. Chances are the enemy you cast SV on is going to have lower health then anyone in your party very fast, making SV quite useless. Other then that, your damage still sucks.
Honestly, just go with curses/death if you want to be offensive, because blood magic has crap offense.
Honestly, just go with curses/death if you want to be offensive, because blood magic has crap offense.
SarothinForums
Hey, I think it's a pretty good build. Just by looking at the skills it may not look like it, but I ran something similar in PvP and sometimes PvE and remember often being the last man standing. Not only that but I managed to wipe out whatever was left and bring back the rest of the team (finally shove it down the people's throats that wanted you to be an MM or SS). Thanks for posting.
Arkantos
Being the last person alive doesn't mean you did anything special, it just means you either aggro'd too much or your monks were bad. Wiping whatever is alive also doesn't make it a great build. Depending on what you're up against, any offensive build with a self heal should be able to wipe whatever is left. Or if you were smart you'd res someone else and get a res chain going so you don't die trying to be a hero, which would be the better decision.
LightningHell
Be aware that being able to stay alive the longest frequently does not mean you're contributing to the team.
Biostem
Here's a blood/curses hybrid build I sometimes use:
[skill]shadow strike[/skill][skill]dark pact[/skill][skill]vampiric gaze[/skill][skill]insidious parasite[/skill][skill]signet of lost souls[/skill][skill]well of power[/skill][skill]awaken the blood[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
By no means a perfect build, I found it to be fairly effective. I generally open w/ insidious parasite, followed by shadow strike for max damage, then spam dark pact and vampiric gaze. Once one enemy is defeated I hit well of power and stand in it to keep my health and energy up to continue w/ the attacks. Signet of lost souls is simply a way to top off my hp and energy in between doing other stuff. I don't have an ideal load-out on runes currently, but here's what I run:
Blood magic: 12 + 3 + 1
Curses: 9 + 1
Soul reaping: 9 + 1
[skill]shadow strike[/skill][skill]dark pact[/skill][skill]vampiric gaze[/skill][skill]insidious parasite[/skill][skill]signet of lost souls[/skill][skill]well of power[/skill][skill]awaken the blood[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
By no means a perfect build, I found it to be fairly effective. I generally open w/ insidious parasite, followed by shadow strike for max damage, then spam dark pact and vampiric gaze. Once one enemy is defeated I hit well of power and stand in it to keep my health and energy up to continue w/ the attacks. Signet of lost souls is simply a way to top off my hp and energy in between doing other stuff. I don't have an ideal load-out on runes currently, but here's what I run:
Blood magic: 12 + 3 + 1
Curses: 9 + 1
Soul reaping: 9 + 1
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos
Quote:
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Other then that, your damage still sucks.
Again, no, it doesn't. However, the build he posted kinda sucks. It's got very little utility. He would probably be a lot more effective just bringing Arcane Echo and Spoil Victor with zero other spells.
Mickey
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos
Your damage is still bad. SV is basically a conditional SS with more damage and no AoE. Chances are the enemy you cast SV on is going to have lower health then anyone in your party very fast, making SV quite useless. Other then that, your damage still sucks.
Honestly, just go with curses/death if you want to be offensive, because blood magic has crap offense. Pair that SV build with a Minion Bomber and your ready to go tbh. boogerboy72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mickey
Pair that SV build with a Minion Bomber and your ready to go tbh.
qft.
i played blood for a long time, i thought it was good, then i capped ss to see what all the fuss was about. i havent looked back since
Arkantos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Bring Bone Minions. Cast the spell on a monk. Fight monsters that are level 30. Again, no, it doesn't. However, the build he posted kinda sucks. It's got very little utility. He would probably be a lot more effective just bringing Arcane Echo and Spoil Victor with zero other spells. |
SV actually isn't all that great damage when you factor in the damage your party will be dealing to the enemy. I don't know about henchies, but you and your heroes should all have 600+ health unless for some reason you're running superiors. Sure against bosses SV will be doing major damage because they have a much higher health, but against regular foes SV isn't that great. And yes, his damage is bad. SV is pretty much his only major damage, but again against regular foes it won't be doing much.
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Pair that SV build with a Minion Bomber and your ready to go tbh.
I'd much rather pair a curses necro with mark of pain/barbs with a minion bomber, not a bad blood build.
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos
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Quote:
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I'd much rather pair a curses necro with mark of pain/barbs with a minion bomber, not a bad blood build.
There's no reason you can't bring both, and no reason that SV must be the only spell on the bar.
Stormlord Alex
Arkantos, SV isn't truly that terrible.
It has good applications in PvE - namely, to wtfpwn bosses who will have higher health than you. You can combine it with Pain Inverter and really purt the hurt on big enemies. Also, for mobs with monks - specifically multiple monks - SV, again, becomes incredibly powerful. Remembering it triggers whenever you use a skill on any creature with less health than you...  However, the problem with Blood is... well... everything else you can put on your bar is shit. - Ok, you're in a PuG... Blood Ritual can be useful, chances are the monks don't know what 'energy management' is. - Blood of the Aggressor is passable. If you want a DD, it's the only one that I'd bother with. - PvE skills alleviate the problem some, you can spend half your bar on these. Pain Inverter/"Finish Him!"/Ebon Wisdom Ward and/or Necrosis are the kinda things that mesh well with the build. Then... what? Some party support and a res? [skill]spoil victor[/skill][skill]blood ritual[/skill][skill]blood of the aggressor[/skill][skill]protective was kaolai[/skill][skill]death pact signet[/skill] 12+1+1 Blood 10 Restoration 8+1 SR ... ugh, a messy bar. But far stronger than packing it with shit Blood DDs.
Arkantos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
There's no reason you can't bring both, and no reason that SV must be the only spell on the bar. |
I ran SV when factions came out, I've ran SV in HM. Enemies in PvE lose health fast enough, which is why I dislike SV. In PvE, you want to be running AoE's as much as possible, another reason why SV isn't that great. A MM has minions that will be attacking all over, triggering death nova when they die. A SS necro has SS/MoP for some really nice AoE damage. That is why most people run those two over a blood necro. If you want to run SV, run it on an orders necro so you'll still be supporting your party. Even on an orders necro, I'd rather run Icy Veins for the AoE damage. I'm well aware that OoP and DF are in the blood line, I never said the whole like was crap.
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Arkantos, SV isn't truly that terrible. It has good applications in PvE - namely, to wtfpwn bosses who will have higher health than you. You can combine it with Pain Inverter and really purt the hurt on big enemies. Also, for mobs with monks - specifically multiple monks - SV, again, becomes incredibly powerful. Remembering it triggers whenever you use a skill on any creature with less health than you... So SV is good for bosses and mobs with competent monks. You're using your elite slot for two enemies types of enemies. If you know you're going to have to fight a hard boss, go ahead and bring SV. If the bosses are easy, there's no reason you should bring it. As for the two monks, well there aren't many mobs that have 2 monks that will be causing trouble other then a few places. In general, it's not that useful, but if you're up against those two types of enemies, I agree it's not that terrible.
Cosmic Error
Arkantos, there is no such thing as a bad attribute line. I played my Blood Necro again today. You guys are right, he's not doing nearly as much damage as my Channeling Ritualist. But...
[card]Spoil Victor[/card] [card]Mark of Subversion[/card] Bane of all monks. Also, the following skills all happen to be in the Blood line: [card]Blood Is Power[/card] [card]Well of Power[/card] [card]Order of the Vampire[/card] [card]Well of Blood[/card] [card]Order of Pain[/card] And, of course... [card]Spoil Victor[/card] ZING!
Arkantos
When a majority of skills in a line is bad, it's a bad skill line. OoP is good, SV, OotV and WoB are alright (although I'd never run them), and the rest are bad.
Cosmic Error
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos
If you're speccing into blood, it should be for OoP/DF
Are you running a Meleemancer or something?
Arkantos
Pretty stupid reply. Read the skill descriptions. They affect the whole party. OoP/DF in physical heavy parties are crazy buffs. OoP is pretty self explanatory. +damage for every physical? Yes please. DF + FGJ = 4 adrenaline in one hit. As long as it's being spammed, you'll be able to spam any adrenaline skill a lot. DF by itself is 2 adrenaline in one hit, making it possible to still spam adrenaline skills. Meleemancers suck, physical buffs in physical heavy parties does not.
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos
Even on an orders necro, I'd rather run Icy Veins for the AoE damage.
Icy Veins??!! You're kidding? Do you actually know how bad that damage is? Hell, I'd rather run Life Tranfer on a Blood necro with Orders, and that's not saying much...
Other than that, I agree, you'll want to run a lot of AoE in PvE... but there aren't that many armor ignoring AoE spells in the game. In the Blood line SV is by far the best elite for general purpose.
Cosmic Error
I'm starting to think you're more qualified to give information about Warriors than Necromancers. I realize that Blood Magic is more about the enchantments and hexes than DD, much like Water Magic. Claiming that all blood magic skills except the warrior-enhancing ones shows you have a narrow view of how the game is played.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Error
Claiming that all blood magic skills except the warrior-enhancing ones shows you have a narrow view of how the game is played.
Actually, it is almost true.
Tearing shit to pieces with physicals = win. I'm just not thinking like that right now because my necro is addicted to Sabway, where only really SV isn't covered, and you don't gain near enough as much strength from DF/OoP.
[DE]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Error
I'm starting to think you're more qualified to give information about Warriors than Necromancers. I realize that Blood Magic is more about the enchantments and hexes than DD, much like Water Magic. Claiming that all blood magic skills except the warrior-enhancing ones shows you have a narrow view of how the game is played.
Blood magic is good for 3 things 1. Blood Ritual 2. Orders 3. Touch Ranger
Arkantos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
Other than that, I agree, you'll want to run a lot of AoE in PvE... but there aren't that many armor ignoring AoE spells in the game. In the Blood line SV is by far the best elite for general purpose. |
On an orders necro you'll generally go 12 + 1 + x blood, 12 + 1 soul reaping. Look at icy veins at 13 soul reaping. 79 initial damage, not that great. 98 AoE damage when the enemy dies is nice. Seeing as it's on a 5 second recharge, you can spam it. Spamming it will make enemies blow up. If you'd rather run an elite hex that gives you regen/enemy degen that can be kept up for 10 seconds with a 30 second recharge as opposed to an elite hex that does AoE damage and can be spammed, that's saying quite a lot.
![[DE]](/static/static/../Img/avatar38220_14.gif){kind=avatar}
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I'm starting to think you're more qualified to give information about Warriors than Necromancers. I realize that Blood Magic is more about the enchantments and hexes than DD, much like Water Magic. Claiming that all blood magic skills except the warrior-enhancing ones shows you have a narrow view of how the game is played.
Blood magic offense sucks. Blood magic support is alright. Blood magic physical buffs are very good. It's not a narrow view at all, it's the truth. Generally people only use blood necros in elite areas/physical heavy parties. Pugs will want BiPs in their party for the elite areas. What does the BiP necro bring? OoP and DF (OoP if there are pretty much any amount of physicals in the party, DF if there are warriors/paragons in the party). What doesn't it bring? Offensive skills. Why? Because the offensive skills the blood line has to offer are crap.
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos
On an orders necro you'll generally go 12 + 1 + x blood, 12 + 1 soul reaping. Look at icy veins at 13 soul reaping. 79 initial damage, not that great. 98 AoE damage when the enemy dies is nice. Seeing as it's on a 5 second recharge, you can spam it. Spamming it will make enemies blow up. If you'd rather run an elite hex that gives you regen/enemy degen that can be kept up for 10 seconds with a 30 second recharge as opposed to an elite hex that does AoE damage and can be spammed, that's saying quite a lot.
The damage from Life Transfer, Soul Leech and Spoil Victor is absolute. Oh, by the way, Life Tranfer is still terrible. The damage from Icy Veins is abysmal versus any high level PvE foe, because it is armor dependant.
Arkantos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moloch Vein
The damage from Life Transfer, Soul Leech and Spoil Victor is absolute. Oh, by the way, Life Tranfer is still terrible. The damage from Icy Veins is abysmal versus any high level PvE foe, because it is armor dependant.
But when enough enemies have it on them and your party can efficiently kill things, it's a good skill. Against an enemy with 100 armor, it will still do 49 damage. Sure that's pretty bad alone, but again when it's on multiple enemies and your party can efficiently kill enemies, it adds up. Add a minion bomber and splinter weapon and you'll be able to get every enemy down to low health easily.
[DE]
[skill]Icy Veins[/skill][skill]Splinter Weapon[/skill][skill]Order of Pain[/skill][skill]Dark Fury[/skill][skill]Blood Renewal[/skill][skill]masochism[/skill][skill]Signet of Lost Souls[/skill][skill]Flesh of My Flesh[/skill]
Icy Veins can work very well when put int the context of a support bar.
Cosmic Error
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos
What does the BiP necro bring? OoP and DF
Actually, they bring Blood is Power.
DRGN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Error
Actually, they bring Blood is Power.
Because we all know that when you run a BiPer, you lose the other 7 slots on your bar. Seriously, if you want constructive criticism of your build, making asinine little comments like that will get you nowhere. Grow up.
Arkantos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Error
Actually, they bring Blood is Power.
Run out of constructive things to say?
As long as there are physicals in your party, your BiP necro will bring OoP unless he's stupid. If there are warriors/paragons, he will also bring DF.
Cosmic Error
I'm sorry, I'm not nearly as good with necromancers as I am with Ritualists, and I understand that you are the one who should be giving me advice, and not the other way around. I'm actually using a SS nuker right now on my necro, and you're right, it works infinitely better than DD Blood Magic. The only that's still ticking me off is that necromancers have to use cookie-cutter builds in order to be effective.
-Minion Master -Minion Bomber -Orders Necro -SS Nuker -BiP battery Is that all that works? Surely at least some of the other 99% of the existing necromancer skills have some use?
Arkantos
Generally those are the best builds your necro can run (except for BiP necro, it's a pretty bad build unless you're in a pug). So yes, there are few elites that are really useful, but necros have a lot of other skills to use.
Take a look at the curse line. In PvE a curse necro will generally go SS. You'll most likely be running signet of lost souls and a res too. That leaves you with 5 slots. Honestly, these slots can be anything. [skill]Barbs[/skill] [skill]Defile Enchantments[/skill] [skill]Desecrate Enchantments[/skill] [skill]Defile Flesh[/skill] [skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill] [skill]Insidious Parasite[/skill] [skill]Mark of Pain[/skill] [skill]Parasitic Bond[/skill] [skill]Reckless Haste[/skill] [skill]Rend Enchantments[/skill] [skill]Rip Enchantment[/skill] Depending on the situation, those skills are all good. Seeing as you have 5 spare slots, you can be creative with the skills you pick. Of course you can't forget your secondary profession. There are many, many secondary skills that will be useful on your necromancer. Really, I wouldn't call them cookie cutter builds, I'd call them general outlines for builds. There are so many useful skills a necro can use, there really isn't one build that everyone is using. Sure there are many players using spiteful spirit, but there aren't many necros running the exact same bar.
Biostem
I think part of the problem is that you look at the damage blood magic skills do, and they don't really stand out, and the fact that they ignore armor (generally) and heal the caster isn't all that useful in a well put-together team.
A blood necro isn't going to outperform an ele in pure damage, so they have to look at the gimmicks or other buffs that they can provide but others cannot. That's where the "orders" and BiP type skills come into play. The question, then, becomes whether those tricks are enough to justify a heavy investment in blood magic in the first place, (especially considering the alternatives...).
Cosmic Error
Thanks! I think i'll stick with an anti-melee Curses build.
blakecraw
basically, in pve, you could out-damage any blood build by either taking [skill]spiteful spirit[/skill] or [skill]animate bone fiend[/skill] and no other skills. Abusing pve mechanics (ie stupid enemies, lots of them, and lots of deaths) to do multi-target dmg is how you win pve, and blood doesn't do that very well.
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkantos
Run out of constructive things to say?
As long as there are physicals in your party, your BiP necro will bring OoP unless he's stupid. If there are warriors/paragons, he will also bring DF. I've never felt that adding in adrenaline boosters in PvE was as awesome as it is in PvP. Most good warriors are running FGJ! and dragon slash, so they're pretty much set. Most paragons have spear of fury or another adrenaline booster, making it of questionable value. OoV and OoP are both pretty cool if you can find other stuff to fill out your bar.
Ensign
I don't think that Spoil Victor is bad at all in PvE, but I'm also not a huge fan of the skill. Like Spiteful, it's a skill that you tend to put on non-priority targets to deal a lot of incidental damage while you focus on someone else. It shines in a few situations, such as putting it on one Monk while you focus another one, to sap a lot of health from it while it heals; it's also decent at wearing down a boss quickly if you aren't shutting him down hard with Great Dwarf Weapon or Daze. Against most mobs, though, I feel like it just takes a bit off the top of non-priority targets. It's significantly better if you're playing alongside a Minion Master in a Necro-heavy team, as it actually can take a decent chunk out of a monster attacking minions. I consider it about on par with Spiteful, albeit in a much weaker attribute.
Order of Pain and Blood Ritual, and their elite equivalents, are the main reasons to take blood skills. They work rather well at moderate or low spec, respectively, however, so you don't need to dedicate a character to them. Necrosis is better than the rest of the attribute.
Moloch Vein
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Phantom
Icy Veins can work very well when put int the context of a support bar.
Cebe
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Error
Necro/Mesmer
Blood Magic 12+1+3 All remaining points dumped into Soul Reaping [card]Vampiric Gaze[/card] [card]Unholy Feast[/card] [card]Shadow Strike[/card] [card]Vampiric Swarm[/card] [card]Barbed Signet[/card] [card]Offering of Blood[/card] [card]Arcane Echo[/card] [card]Resurrection Signet[/card] Granted, it's not going to be winning any Hero's Ascent matches, but it actually works really well in PvE, and i've even gotten some thank-yous from Monks who were sick of healing suicidal BiP batteries. Let the flaming begin... In response to the OP: What are you echoing in particular, just out of interest? Anyhoo, I always found Factions to be the "King" of Blood Magic, and not only because of Spoil Victor. Not too dissimilar to yours I think, one of my preferred (Pre-EotN) blood builds is: [skill]Cultist's Fervor[/skill][skill]Blood Drinker[/skill][skill]Vampiric Gaze[/skill][skill]Strip Enchantment[/skill][skill]Unholy Feast[/skill][skill]Shadow Strike[/skill][skill]Resilient Weapon[/skill][skill]Flesh of my Flesh[/skill] ...I say Pre-EotN...Angorodon's Gaze could easily be slipped in there these days (not played it since EotN release), and Masochism, though I doubt Masochism and Signet of Lost Souls are necessary - Cultist's Fervor with an enchanting weapon almost lasts it's recharge. I used a low HP armor set with a double HCT Blood / +20% Enchanting Blood Magic staff. I had a lot of fun playing with it at any rate, and you can spam blood skills until the minions come home. I'll often take Vampiric Swarm in PvE when I take a hero monk, since they take off the bleeding from Blood Drinker anyway. It'll not deal the sort of Damage SV or SS will deal I'm sure, but it's fun to play.
Dr Strangelove
Well, if you really want to run a blood bar in PvE, it's probably a mistake to skip past [skill]enfeebling blood[/skill] and [skill]oppressive gaze[/skill]
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