The more I read discussions on the DCS, the more I realise that people may not be as honest as they seem. Only those that mention what an improvement it is seem honest IMHO. I can imagine why you'd want people not to see you as "Dishonorable" if you've been hexed (after AB, one guy had the D-hex and was wondering why he couldn't AB again, I explained it to him and he seemed to accept it)
Now that the D-hex is here, no point discussing subjective opinions about it. The OP is subjective, it is basically saying "D-hex does not work because I got D-hexed and not the leechers"! Well, all cases are looked by Anet/NCSoft staff so may be yours just got examined earlier than them.
It'd be more interesting to discuss, for example, how many times people have been able to convince other party members to report a leecher? Or if it was rather the contrary, difficult to convince them?
Dishonorable Hex
Fril Estelin
bhavv
Well people are easilly convinced to report me for saccing my monk. But wait, I thought you dont need a monk to win!
And I sac with lively naomei, so im up again and running around casting spells like infuse, but I still get /reported by 80% of people.
And no this isnt a complaint or a QQ, its pointing out how easilly people type /report.
Now if you sac on a necro, you wont get reported anywhere near as much as saccing a monk. Its just how the monk is the first to get yelled at when people die cos they over extend or cos the monk is dazed. People still rely on monks more then any other class in RA, yet they used to complain about people raging when they have no monk.
And I sac with lively naomei, so im up again and running around casting spells like infuse, but I still get /reported by 80% of people.
And no this isnt a complaint or a QQ, its pointing out how easilly people type /report.
Now if you sac on a necro, you wont get reported anywhere near as much as saccing a monk. Its just how the monk is the first to get yelled at when people die cos they over extend or cos the monk is dazed. People still rely on monks more then any other class in RA, yet they used to complain about people raging when they have no monk.
Medion
I got the dishonorable hex for the first time yesterday (didn't know about it, had been gone when it was implemented).
To be honest, I think it's silly. If I know the team has lost and no one has a res left, why do I have to stay untill the game is over? Anyway, it's only 10 minutes which gives me some time to do something else.
I thought we were discussing the objective ones 
EDIT: RotteN, I definately agree that you can't judge a team from the start. When I leave a team "full of fail" (as bhavv put it), it's a team with monks who only cast healing breeze, warriors who frenzy through spiteful spirit + empathy, rangers who cast troll unguent with 20 health left and being hit at by a warrior just to give a few examples.
To be honest, I think it's silly. If I know the team has lost and no one has a res left, why do I have to stay untill the game is over? Anyway, it's only 10 minutes which gives me some time to do something else.
Quote:
| Now that the D-hex is here, no point discussing subjective opinions about it. |
EDIT: RotteN, I definately agree that you can't judge a team from the start. When I leave a team "full of fail" (as bhavv put it), it's a team with monks who only cast healing breeze, warriors who frenzy through spiteful spirit + empathy, rangers who cast troll unguent with 20 health left and being hit at by a warrior just to give a few examples.
RotteN
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bhavv
Guess what? If im going to leave a team full of fail in RA, im going to leave the team full of fail.
|
small example :
2 teams, i'll just give you the composition (because that's the only thing you see at the start anyway) :
A (1)
A/E (2)
P/W (3)
E/A (4)
and
Mo/E (1)
W/E (2)
E/Mo (3)
A/D (4)
which one is "fail" and which isn't ?
those are 2 actual teams i've been in, and guess what, the first got 12 consecs (yes, we even won in TA) while the 2nd didn't even make it to 5. Stop judging so fast. No one is forcing anyway "to play with him". By playing RA you chose to do so : you play with random people. If you want more control, play TA, or HA, or GvG, or HB.
Fril Estelin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bhavv
People still rely on monks more then any other class in RA, yet they used to complain about people raging when they have no monk.
|
I don't believe people easily report. And even if they were, I believe that the staff at the other end of the /report stick are smart enough not to ban anyone based on subjective reports ("ban him, he didn't res me!") but rather on the intersection of subjective reports (where there is often bits and pieces of truth).
D-hex is the way forward, because it's semantic. Trying to push morale issues outside of the game is a fail, in a more or less long term, because given the big size of any MMO population (and also the fact that part of it is very young and possibly not under adult's supervision) problems are bound to happen. It's not enough to claim you did this or that in good faith, you have to look at the perspective of other people, and this requires a lot of experience and maturity.
Fortunately people got the best out of /report, some nasty people got their gameplay ruined for ruining others, and I guess that some innocent have been caught in the middle. But with proper help, like this discussion, we'll hopefully put things back "in order".
Fril Estelin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Medion
If I know the team has lost and no one has a res left, why do I have to stay untill the game is over?
|
Quote:
| Anyway, it's only 10 minutes which gives me some time to do something else. |
Quote:
| When I leave a team "full of fail" (as bhavv put it), it's a team with monks who only cast healing breeze, warriors who frenzy through spiteful spirit + empathy, rangers who cast troll unguent with 20 health left and being hit at by a warrior just to give a few examples. |
As someone was very smartly saying on a different thread here on AB, the situation may only get better if "good" people start helping "bad" players, instead of simply telling them they're "bad". Whatever "good" and "bad" are.
stretchs
I like the idea of the Dishonorable Hex, as leavers were always annoying, when you have a leaver prior to even barely being loaded.
But I would like to revisit a point someone made earlier in this thread. I would like to see the randomness of RA become a bit less random and a bit more fair. I know all of us have spent days/nights where it seems like every team but your own gets a monk, 10-15 matches without and so on. I like the idea of allowing 1 of a class per group. I know that would be problematic for people doing out of cookie cutter things like the smiter monk, the channeling/Spirit Strength rit or even the odd healing dervish, but it would probably allow people to be a bit happier with their day in day out feelings toward RA. And yes i know if you want a balanced team go to TA argument applies, but so often when newer players come to the game they dont have the experience to get into TA groups, or make it past 1 loss in a TA group so RA tends to be their only hope.
But I would like to revisit a point someone made earlier in this thread. I would like to see the randomness of RA become a bit less random and a bit more fair. I know all of us have spent days/nights where it seems like every team but your own gets a monk, 10-15 matches without and so on. I like the idea of allowing 1 of a class per group. I know that would be problematic for people doing out of cookie cutter things like the smiter monk, the channeling/Spirit Strength rit or even the odd healing dervish, but it would probably allow people to be a bit happier with their day in day out feelings toward RA. And yes i know if you want a balanced team go to TA argument applies, but so often when newer players come to the game they dont have the experience to get into TA groups, or make it past 1 loss in a TA group so RA tends to be their only hope.
Shadowspawn X
Quote:
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Originally Posted by DreamRunner
Rank = Skill?
I am intrigued by this reason that Rank can equal to the amount of skill a person has in Guild Wars PvP. Please by all means give a more detail reason on why this is, I am sure lots of people are going to agree. |
1) no rank = you don't play much and have no experience = no skill
2) no rank = you play lots and don't win which = no skill
Inversely we can deduce that rank= skill, understand now?
Prof Of Black
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RotteN
how are you going to determine said "fail" ?
small example : 2 teams, i'll just give you the composition (because that's the only thing you see at the start anyway) : A (1) A/E (2) P/W (3) E/A (4) and Mo/E (1) W/E (2) E/Mo (3) A/D (4) which one is "fail" and which isn't ? those are 2 actual teams i've been in, and guess what, the first got 12 consecs (yes, we even won in TA) while the 2nd didn't even make it to 5. Stop judging so fast. No one is forcing anyway "to play with him". By playing RA you chose to do so : you play with random people. If you want more control, play TA, or HA, or GvG, or HB. |
It's about the player inside.
What about a monk with smiting skills?
@ the first one, you could have had pr0s in your team or was just lucky
@ the second one, the monk fails or you had to face a rly good team.
~Prof.
Fril Estelin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X
In a nutshell it breaks down to why no rank = no skill
1) no rank = you don't play much and have no experience = no skill 2) no rank = you play lots and don't win which = no skill Inversely we can deduce that rank= skill, understand now? |
You may be good at something but you're not doing it often/a lot. You may be good but always end up in a group of inexperienced/stupid players. You may even not be so good, but are very committed to a title so you got your rank by only winning 1 or 2% of your matches, or even worse by getting very lucky to get on groups with very experienced players.
XiaoTheBlade
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X
In a nutshell it breaks down to why no rank = no skill
1) no rank = you don't play much and have no experience = no skill 2) no rank = you play lots and don't win which = no skill Inversely we can deduce that rank= skill, understand now? |
Prof Of Black
Quote:
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Originally Posted by XiaoTheBlade
And if you don't play HA?
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~Prof.
truemyths
I too am frustrated by continued leechers who get reported and come back. There's a few 'infamous' ones in aspenwood luxon side.
I've started reporting as bots vs. leechers now. Since if they're leeching like that over and over they must have written a macro or something.
I've started reporting as bots vs. leechers now. Since if they're leeching like that over and over they must have written a macro or something.
Shadowspawn X
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
You may be good at something but you're not doing it often/a lot.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
You may be good but always end up in a group of inexperienced/stupid players.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
You may even not be so good, but are very committed to a title so you got your rank by only winning 1 or 2% of your matches, or even worse by getting very lucky to get on groups with very experienced players.
|
Quote:
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Originally Posted by XiaoTheBlade
And if you don't play HA?
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Fril Estelin
Since you only commented on the second paragraph of my reply, I guess you either ignored the first part or agreed with it. Since you prefered to comment on the "example" paragraph, I'll do the same:
Yes it is possible, except that no one will ever see how good you are, simply because you don't want to play much.
2 good can balance for 2 bad, but not 1 good for 3 bads.
Well if you only see what you want to see, the discussion is pointless too, isn't it? My point is that a player with 5000h of play and spending 5 hours to get one glad point, is at the same "rank" as the one that played 1000h and spending 1h to get a glad point. The 2nd one is more "skilled" or luckier, yet they have the same rank.
Just FYI, in the history of the netiquette and the typical net discussions, there used to be a difference between "noob" and "newbie", where the first would be stupid and the second one simply inexperienced because new to the scene/game. We can see more and more people confusing the two and it's so sad because it ruins the experience of new players, who probably have among them potentially very skilled players.
As I understand it, teams play not only "the game" in GvG/HA but a different game that requires "skills" different from the one we're discussing here: know the "fashionable" builds (to the point where one wonders if someone can become "good" simply by acting as a robot with the "good" builds), the smurfs guilds, and other "tricks" that make this game less "technical" and more a question of context. Of course, I could be wrong or misinterpreting information, I only read about this here and never played GvG/HA.
But no need to be there to "feel" the difference, and in particular the condescending tone (even if it's not indented as something mean). A game with numbers but without a spirit has no meaning, rank is not skill. It's exactly as in PvE: no need to tell me how much XP or titles you have, it's only when playing that one is able to show he is skilled.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X
Which means you rank up slow, but doesn't mean you have no rank. Its impossible to be good and not rank up.
|
Quote:
| Doesn't matter, when you good you can carry scrubs, its all part of being good.Its very easy for 2 good players to carry two scrubs to a glad or for a good caller/tactician/strategist to lead a team of scrubs to halls as well. |
Quote:
| Both of these scenarios will make you good. The latter playing with skilled experienced players will bring up your skill level faster than any other method and the former indicates thousands of matches played of which its impossible not to improve after such exposure. Now if you want to hypothetical that the person is a retard and has no ability to learn then the discussion is pointless. |
Quote:
| Doesn't matter GvG , Gladiator arenas, and HA all the good players have rank. Champ points, glad points, and fame still say skilled. While nothing still says n00b. |
As I understand it, teams play not only "the game" in GvG/HA but a different game that requires "skills" different from the one we're discussing here: know the "fashionable" builds (to the point where one wonders if someone can become "good" simply by acting as a robot with the "good" builds), the smurfs guilds, and other "tricks" that make this game less "technical" and more a question of context. Of course, I could be wrong or misinterpreting information, I only read about this here and never played GvG/HA.
But no need to be there to "feel" the difference, and in particular the condescending tone (even if it's not indented as something mean). A game with numbers but without a spirit has no meaning, rank is not skill. It's exactly as in PvE: no need to tell me how much XP or titles you have, it's only when playing that one is able to show he is skilled.
MsMassacre
so instead of no monk = leave, now no monk = forced to waste 5-10 minutes in what you know is a pointless losing battle because nobody has the brains to resign.
I fail to see how this is an improvement.
I fail to see how this is an improvement.
Fril Estelin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MsMassacre
... because nobody has the brains to resign.
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DreamRunner
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X
In a nutshell it breaks down to why no rank = no skill
1) no rank = you don't play much and have no experience = no skill 2) no rank = you play lots and don't win which = no skill Inversely we can deduce that rank= skill, understand now? |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kyrein
clarifying it for the people oblivious to sarcasm (yes they actually exist)
|
But to my understanding is that, my point before was that the number in your rank means how "skilled" you are. This was the point that I directed across towards bhavv in that he think he is skilled because he has rank 4 glad. Which from my experience with him on Guru, I can assume that his understanding Guild Wars in PvP and PvE, is not very good. From this example, I can later assume from persona experience as well as experience from the encounter with bhavv is that the rank number meaning how "skilled" you are isn't a reliable souce. As well, I have met some really skilled players who are only rank 2 and 3 glad, yet they have a good understand to what Team Arenas and PvP is.
This isn't only seen in Team Arenas, its very much seen in HA as well. Although I don't like to participate towards the Heroes Ascent, I do see that many high ranking guild members do have only rank 3 in their Hero Title.
BoondockSaint
Personally I had not done arenas since the hex was put into place until this weekened. For the few hours I played I felt the hex greatly improved the RA experience.
Once when we had 2 monk rather then 1 or both leaving like what would happen previously we kept on and auctually won 7 matches. My best team was one with no monk just a dervish, warrior, necro, and ele, we had so much damage output we lasted for 12 or so rounds.
Though I will argree that occasionally I ran into a very poorly constructed team and our mending wammo kept running around while the other team had no speed boosts. You know what I did, I left because the hex does not kick in right away.
Finally I truly enjoy the time limit, it allows for plenty of time to play and keeps the matches reasonable.
Once when we had 2 monk rather then 1 or both leaving like what would happen previously we kept on and auctually won 7 matches. My best team was one with no monk just a dervish, warrior, necro, and ele, we had so much damage output we lasted for 12 or so rounds.
Though I will argree that occasionally I ran into a very poorly constructed team and our mending wammo kept running around while the other team had no speed boosts. You know what I did, I left because the hex does not kick in right away.
Finally I truly enjoy the time limit, it allows for plenty of time to play and keeps the matches reasonable.
Vazze
The problem is not dishonorable: when I get teamed with 3 healer and a necro and the necro says "uh-oh, lets try it" and one of the monk replies "ok". In other words half the players there do not have the basic understanding of the game.
If you ask me, it is perfectly ok to give these folks (who are apparently active on forums too) a pvp arena but why the only one that is a "no hassle instant fight" style PvP?!
If you ask me, it is perfectly ok to give these folks (who are apparently active on forums too) a pvp arena but why the only one that is a "no hassle instant fight" style PvP?!
Orange Milk
Well put BoonDock, D Hex + Timer = better RA (great movie too, btw)
Now just drop glad points from RA and all will be well
I've not gotten the Hex and unless something wack happns I never will.
To all you who say "But my team LOOKED like pure fail" A) never judge a book by its cover B) If they are SO fail, the match is only going to last a minute anyway, not 5-10. C) If your Soooo serious about getting a good team and your time is too important to waste on what LOOKS like a fail team, GO TO TA. D) Look in a mirror, perhaps YOUR the one thats fail.
Now just drop glad points from RA and all will be well
I've not gotten the Hex and unless something wack happns I never will.
To all you who say "But my team LOOKED like pure fail" A) never judge a book by its cover B) If they are SO fail, the match is only going to last a minute anyway, not 5-10. C) If your Soooo serious about getting a good team and your time is too important to waste on what LOOKS like a fail team, GO TO TA. D) Look in a mirror, perhaps YOUR the one thats fail.
Henchman
The Dishonorable hex is probably the best upgrade in the entire history of the game, no kidding.
Before it almost every RA match that didn't have a monk had a leaver.
Now you can actually play 4vs4 random as intended.
And the number of districts in RA have pretty much doubled since the hex was introduced.
Bottom line: If you want a perfect team, go to TA. If you're not good enough for TA, then you will never be on a perfect team simply because YOU are on that team. Go back to playing Hello Kitty Adventure Island.
Thanks Anet!!
Before it almost every RA match that didn't have a monk had a leaver.
Now you can actually play 4vs4 random as intended.
And the number of districts in RA have pretty much doubled since the hex was introduced.
Bottom line: If you want a perfect team, go to TA. If you're not good enough for TA, then you will never be on a perfect team simply because YOU are on that team. Go back to playing Hello Kitty Adventure Island.
Thanks Anet!!
Chrono Re delle Ere
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Henchman
The Dishonorable hex is probably the best upgrade in the entire history of the game, no kidding.
Before it almost every RA match that didn't have a monk had a leaver. Now you can actually play 4vs4 random as intended. And the number of districts in RA have pretty much doubled since the hex was introduced. Bottom line: If you want a perfect team, go to TA. If you're not good enough for TA, then you will never be on a perfect team simply because YOU are on that team. Go back to playing Hello Kitty Adventure Island. Thanks Anet!! |
Navaros
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
And "a leaver every game" is how it used to be before dishonorable.
|
This further wastes the whole team's time to an even greater extent than the leaver leaving right when the match begins would have.
In addition, there are also the aforementioned problems listed by the other posters, like being forced to waste time in a pointless battle.
Makkert
One of the dumbest things is that if your teammates can't / won't res you in RA, you can't leave because of dishonor and are forced to watch 2 earth tanks 'combatting' each other and watching a boring non-winner show.
Rhedd
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Navaros
Smart leavers...
...a smart leaver player who... |
Just wanted to add, the best RA team I've ever been on was R, R, Me, N. 22 consecutive wins. Don't judge.
RhanoctJocosa
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Orange Milk
Well put BoonDock, D Hex + Timer = better RA (great movie too, btw)
Now just drop glad points from RA and all will be well |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Orange Milk
To all you who say "But my team LOOKED like pure fail" A) never judge a book by its cover B) If they are SO fail, the match is only going to last a minute anyway, not 5-10. C) If your Soooo serious about getting a good team and your time is too important to waste on what LOOKS like a fail team, GO TO TA. D) Look in a mirror, perhaps YOUR the one thats fail.
|
B) That's only if you vs a decent enough team, and if the people in your team don't all try res/run around the map for another 3 minutes.
C) Not only is TA in a terrible state, but if you want to get anywhere you need to have 3 other people who aren't bad, so if you don't have anybody online wut2do?
D)NOU
Guys, the solution to this problem is simple: SYNCMOARLOLHOW2RA
EDIT: Not having a monk on your team isn't why everyone leaves. I got a 21 RA run during the weekend with sexy koreans, we had Migraine, D/P, me as Coward! sword and a shattering assault sin.
EDIT2: I own you all.
bhavv
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa
EDIT2: I own you all.
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And also, I have no titles anymore so that makes meh better then you with your ranks!
Since ppl without titles = better players in everones opinion.
I R a Rank 0 PRO!!!! Lyk U 2!!!!
Hailey Anne
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kyrein
would you prefer to have a leaver every game instead?
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My point is that we shouldnt be forced to stay in a game with a well known leecher.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MoriaOrc
Use it correctly, report the leach and play out the round so he can't leach again for 10 minutes. FA is very winnable with only one guy leaching, but if people start leaving because of one person that just makes it even harder for those that remain.
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Yet very next match there he is.
Good ole J.R. some may know who im talking about.
You kind of get sick of wasting your time after awhile.
I play FA because its fun but not with these leechers here.
Either remove dishonor or improve it so we dont get these people who ruin the game.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
You have to /report, then /resign.
The leecher won't get to the next match. |
The whole team has to resign and a leecher isnt going to do this.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
Now that the D-hex is here, no point discussing subjective opinions about it. The OP is subjective, it is basically saying "D-hex does not work because I got D-hexed and not the leechers"! Well, all cases are looked by Anet/NCSoft staff so may be yours just got examined earlier than them.
|
I was in 2 matches before I left with this person who leeches on a regular bases.
Over half the party reported him yet hes in the next match and the next on the 3rd time I was fed up so I left.
But IM the one that gets dishonored. Big flaw in DH.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shadowspawn X
In a nutshell it breaks down to why no rank = no skill
1) no rank = you don't play much and have no experience = no skill 2) no rank = you play lots and don't win which = no skill Inversely we can deduce that rank= skill, understand now? |
Second this isnt a rank discussion so take your Rank crap elsewhere those always turn into major flaming threads.
Ork Pride
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kyrein
average IQ is 80 |
RhanoctJocosa
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bhavv
But not meh! I own u.
And also, I have no titles anymore so that makes meh better then you with your ranks! Since ppl without titles = better players in everones opinion. I R a Rank 0 PRO!!!! Lyk U 2!!!! |
Dutch Masterr
Dishonorable hex is great, but sometimes it will backfire on you. I once was in an RA game and i started to have a video card issue which required me to restart my computer mid-game. I came back only to find i couldnt PvP for a half hour or whatever it is, LOL.
Hailey Anne
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa
It depends, but in most cases people with ranks are better than people with no ranks, simply because they're more experienced in whatever form of PvP it is. I mean, for example, if all the old school GvGers came back to gw you can't say they aren't good just because they'd only have a low, if not any, champ title.
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RhanoctJocosa
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hailey Anne
This is NOT a rank vs no rank discussion please post this stuff in the 1000s of pvp/rank threads.
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Molock
I like it... especially for RA! People don't leave the instant they see that their team doesn't have a monk.
bhavv
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
It takes no brain to resign. It does take brains to win a game, and even more despite the odds against you.
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How fun, they must be pro if they win right? Cos they won!
bhavv
Ok, i was just playing elly in a match and our monk didnt fare very well.
We had a warrior who said:
'Nice healing noob monk'
Then the warrior /reported the monk for leeching and rage quit :O
Dishounour + report are great arent they?
We had a warrior who said:
'Nice healing noob monk'
Then the warrior /reported the monk for leeching and rage quit :O
Dishounour + report are great arent they?
Numa Pompilius
Quote:
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Originally Posted by MsMassacre
so instead of no monk = leave, now no monk = forced to waste 5-10 minutes in what you know is a pointless losing battle because nobody has the brains to resign.
|
You know, in TA you get to design your own team. It's not random at all. So why are you in RA and hating it?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by bhavv
We had a warrior who said:
'Nice healing noob monk' Then the warrior /reported the monk for leeching and rage quit :O Dishounour + report are great arent they? |
Isn't it fortunate that it isn't automatic that the monk gets the dishonor, and that it's actually more likely that the warrior will for abusing the /report system?
bhavv
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
So why are you in RA and hating it?
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I can farm dishonour points and hexes on my monk all day for doing nothing but playing a really bad build, people that abuse the system to report noobs are a plenty. If you want to see it, roll a sac monk with lively was naomei and see for yourself how many reports you get for leeching.
I also get easy dishonour points for a Mo/W wammo too, in fact, I'm gonna play that now. XD
My fun time in RA
Numa Pompilius
It would seem, then, as if the problem isn't with the system, or with other people. But with you.
Which brings me back to my first conclusion: that the dishonor system is working, and that you're one of the guys who made it necessary to begin with.
Which brings me back to my first conclusion: that the dishonor system is working, and that you're one of the guys who made it necessary to begin with.