Dishonorable Hex

Taking out glad points is the solution needed, then this whole dishonered crap would never be required in the first place as a quick band-aid solution.

Not really true. I'm one of the few guys old enough to remember that people still left even without glad points in RA (just to be griefers).

IMHO...
Dishonorable is just another way to make ANet feel better about "not being WoW"... since WoW has this EXACT debuff...

the dishonorable system is terrible and proves to be flawed everytime I RA when I get some dipshit on my team who runs around for 5 minutes wasting everyones time while the enemy team can't kill him.

Or there's the case where I end up in a 3 monk team, and no one else will resign.

As far as no monk teams go - the only thing dishonorable has changed is that people will leave at the end of the match as opposed to at the start, wow, fantastic.

I've reported many people for leeching and they in fact do end up being in the next match, quite honestly i've never noticed any results from reporting.

I'd rather have leavers than put up with that shit

lol, there is this joke, the guy is driving a hard bargain with the trader for a horse, when they finally make a deal. The new owner strikes the horse's ass to start her, and the horse shoots out like lightning and she runs straight into a wall. The buyer says "Man, this horse is blind", the trader replies "Nah, she is not blind, she is daring!".

I got 10s (before the dumb 5 win 1 balth update) and 15s(occansionally) without monks. AND i HAVE killed 2 monk teams without monks. Skills>healing, and pretty much anything else in RA.

How's that for a flame

I'm sorry but winning fifteen consecutive games without a monk? I believe that's BS if your group was that good then you should try HA without a monk.

No it's very possible. I won 14 consecutive 4 days ago. 2 Broad Head Arrows Rangers, me (Pious Assault Arvatar of Lysaa spiker), and a.. sin or a necro can't remember the other guy.
Daze basically owns in RA/TA.

He is correct it can be done

Must have been done when the hardcore TA guilds and coordinated pick up groups(not really PuGs, think using your friends list) were not in TA, because unless you roll a solid TA-like build in RA, you usually tank after a few TA matches. Yeah its possible, but an extremely rare ocurrence.

Which happens a lot less than leavers. And to be honest it happens a lot less than 1/hour meaning you can still leave and not be punished.

You say it like thats a problem....
Leaving at the end effects no one, at no point do they have to fight a man down because they are replaced by someone else.
By having this it allows players to leave games with runners, leechers, 4 defensive chars etc without being punished if they have already had to leave one earlier.

As the team will get a new player for the next round no one is harmed by having that option to leave.

Then its unlikely your team are reporting them or they have been reported before. It takes 10 points to get the hex, you recieve 2 from each player who reports you. So even if all 3 players report thats only 6 points. Hence the reason you see them back in.

And obviousely if people on your team dont report its going to take even longer.

You would take having to spend an extra 5 mins or so every now and then over having no game every 2-3 rounds?

RA is much better now, people actually fight. Rather than it being a game of hoping the other team leaves.



***edit***

I also agree that glad points make all the problems a lot worse, but we had leavers before glad points. So even if they removed glad points the dishonor system would still need to be in place.

Gladiator points introduced a certain competitive feel to the random arena's that wasn't there before. When the dishonour system was first introduced, I had high hopes for it, however it has not brought the fun back to RA and I don't think anything short of removing glads points and shifting the troublesome segment of the population to TA will.

Glad points don't make any problems as has been stated leavers existed before glad points and dishonor does nothing to improve the RA experience. The problem in RA is people with no rez, invinca-tanks with no damage and all heals wasting everyones time. and idiots who refuse to resign when a recycle is what is needed (ie 3 vs 4).

If anything TA needed its own 4 vs 4 title. Gladiator suits RA much more than TA, in ancient Rome gladiators were thrown into all kinds of situations against different foes and had to work with what they had. RA embodies this spirit much more than TA.

I disagree, Im not saying people didnt leave before them (As I said in the post you quoted, they did), but it caused it to happen a lot more. People left till they hit that "perfect" team they thought could get them a glad point.

Since dishonor its much better.

You hardly ever get anyone leave, you actually get to play games most of the time!

So the problem with Random Arenas is that its Random?

Thats the whole point of it. You are meant to be on a team of random players with random builds.

This I agree with, TA needs some love.
Its unfortunate its remained tied to RA.

I like to believe there is a difference between "random" and "terrible".. and I find most the time it's terrible players with terrible builds because they can't be bothered thinking for more than 4 minutes about what might be good.

Welcome to RA.

Random means just that. You could get a perfect team, you could get a ranger who is certain that expertise is making him a great monk.

RA is meant to be an extremely low level and causal form of PvP, its meant to let you just jump in without thinking up a build. It really shouldnt be looked at in a competetive way (Which is why I feel glad points in RA is a bad idea), it should be looked at as a casual form of PvP to mess around in, try out new builds and have fun.

For those that want the exact same gameplay but with proper teams there is TA.

The game however is really not balanced around 4v4 and when people take advantage of that it makes TA a pretty shitty experience at times (sometimes its ok) - really for actual proper teams you need to stick to 8v8 format with strategical oppertunities - gvg, in other words.

Its RANDOM. Stop playing RA if you desire a team of specific composition. Sometimes you'll get 4 monks, sometimes you'll get none, sometimes you'll get something in between. Trying to defend leaving a Random Arena match because you got a random team mix instead of a balanced one, is worthy of a Darwin award.

The OP deserves a dishonorable hex because they left a match before its completion, whatever the reason. Whining about that gets the runner's up award.

The dishonorable hex isnt perfect, but at least it cuts down on leavers, outside of these two examples at least.

I love all the whining from people who don't understand how RA works. People who don't bring self heals so they complain that there's no monk. People who don't bring appropriate speed buffs/debuffs complaining about runners. People who don't bring a disenchantment whining about tanks.

Newsflash: these are three basic staples all RA characters should have. You WILL come up against some noob spamming Shadow Form, so you better have a signet or other non-spell to remove it. You WILL be in matches where you have no monk, so you better have a reliable self heal. Other people WILL bring speed buffs and run from you if they need to, so you better have a KD, cripple, or buff of your own.

Again: dishonorable could work better, but it's not bad the way it works now. 99.9% of the people complaining about the hex are exactly the sorts of people that should be excluded from RA because they were aggravating everyone else. Nobody cares that you don't like the hex because nobody wants to play with you anyway and are glad you're getting hit with it.

They're like those people that get mad when the team wipes in RA, then call all the teammates noobs. Yea? If you're so good, why aren't you in TA or HA?

Plus, my own anecdotal evidence: I've left RA matches numerous times because the match was just dragging out pointlessly. Those circumstances are so uncommon that I've never once been hit with the hex, even during this last weekend when I played a ton of RA to build up some Balthazar faction.

In my opinion dishonorable is very good. The players who think theyre too leet for the teams they get in shouldnt be leaving. If youre just leaving all the time you phuck up the game for the players who like random battles. If you wanna play organized then dont play RANDOM arena's

He was.
It shows you how many reports someone and who was reported it just doesnt show you who reported the person.
I counted atleast half every time.

I think YOU misunderstand the point.
This guy is in here every day match after match leeching.
every day the SAME guy gets atleast half the team to report him.
Yet everyday the SAME guy is right back in the match.

[QUOTE=Skyy High]Sounds like your teammates didn't know how / care enough to report the guy.

QUOTE]
Read above.

its not about not liking your team.
I shouldnt have to waste my time with leechers on the team.

Bad how???
Its bad because it affects the team. I could care less about the leecher getting faction or not.
It affects the rest of us this is why its bad.

AGAIN. Its NOT about being in a "leet" team.
Its about being in a FULL team as in one without leechers.
Why should we have to waste our time in a match with leechers.
This is my point.

You are implying those who are opposed to the hex don't know how to play RA? I'm sorry, but I am against it and have more than enough PvP experience. Like Rob said, I don't mind random, I just hate the people who are terrible. No one is perfect, in RA I expect no one to be perfect, but why do I have to deal with the players who just aren't adding anything to the team either? If I have a team with people who at least give winning a decent try I won't leave. I don't care if it's 4 W/Mo or something.

And to the people saying: go to TA.
I can't be bothered to set up a team just to get some games in. Just as others can't be bothered to make a decent build. Why do I get 'punished'* for not wanting to set up a team but others not for just failing to make a decent build?
To those saying, it's called RA for a reason: It used to be Competition Arenas, so yeah, there should be a form of competition.
Google's definition: Competition is the act of striving against others for the purpose of achieving dominance.
See? People aren't accepting that they are supposed to try achieve dominance. I accept it's random, I just don't accept people who don't get what competition means.

*Like I said, I'll just do something else for the time being if I get the hex.

Methinks there's a truckload of bulls*** being slung around in this thread. In the past 2 weeks, I've been screwing around in RA quite a bit (really just wasting time bored). I've seen, in all of those matches, not a single player who has intentionally suicided themself (as an alternate to leaving). I've seen no leechers at all either; some slow loaders who then die all alone, and recently an influx of bots (w/n with a certain guild tag are cropping up a lot...), but no outright leechers. I've seen some idiot tank builds that required a minute or so to kill...but that's it, a minute. I've seen some pretty bad builds (best was a w/r with bow attacks and warrior's endurance...), but hey, if you get paired up with 3 sacks of fail, you're back in the outpost in a minute or two.

Leavers were the ones who were screwing up RA. The fact that there are bad builds and bad players there is not going to change, and honestly if you're just that "pr0" that you can't give the team a shot and/or you can't stand to lose, go to frickin TA and be done with it. The fact that you're not paired with top gvg players really doesn't matter, when you're going to most likely be facing crappy players as well. Now, when I go into a match, I know 95% of the time it's actually going to be 4 on 4, instead of watching the chat to see how many leavers each team has.

I am not claiming I'm pro (and I don't think anyone has claimed to be) and I'm certainly giving each team a shot. Yes, I can stand to lose, I do so all the time. No I won't go to TA, because I can't bother to try and find some people for 30 minutes, and then setting up for another 10 minutes to get 2 games in. Whenever I can with my guild, I play TA. And yes, there as well, we lose a lot.

People, saying "go to TA if you don't want bad people" is like saying "go to Hero battles if you don't want leavers". I'm not saying you should go to Hero Battles, because I know it's different, just as TA is different from RA.

I don't suppose I'll ever convince any of you guys though

I used to RA a lot now i never do because this dishonor is so stupid. but like someone else said people just suicide now if they dont like their team and it ends up wasting a lot more time. I think the real problem with Ra leavers was syncers in the international district. Leavers werent so bad in the home districts. even then if someone leaves they obviously didnt want to play with us. why would i want someone making them play and do poorly so they can lose and get a monk on their team or whatever it is they think will win for them. Most of my Glad pts from RA came from monkless and rt-less teams. personally i used to leave if i had a rt becasue i didnt like standing there for 10 minutes hoping the other team was dumb enough to fight in the spirits.I would leave if someone else left, and if we lost and didnt want to waste 10 seconds of my life waiting for the timer to send us back. why is there a timer anyway why cant it just send you back when you lose? Anyway my point being is a dishonor system just makes this game worse in every way and improves it insignificantly. so basically its right up there with most of anets "improvements" . Its funny to play this game so long and see all these new features and then remember all the problems and bugs that never get touched. They should change dishonor to trigger on playing a R/W or a n/rt or a w/r or a p/mo. then maybe it might be a more fitting name.

Pic or it didn't happen?

Jeez, is this thread still going on?

Would the people complaining because they can't farm glad points as easy as they used to kindly just... cope? Deal with it? Get over it? Go to TA?

Well when you die and a person in your team just runs away and dont accept lose I should stay 5 minute and wait the draw:O

To be fair... I've been outnumbered 4 to 1 after my teammates have died in RA and won.
Granted, I'm not saying I'm "leet" or that it would happen everytime. I've only been able to do that once in like... 1000 RA matches. I'm just saying, it can once in a blue moon happen, and you should give your teammate the benefit of the doubt and wait it out just incase.

That's the worst quick band-aid idea I have heard, it would become an instant ghost town and you would have to wait forever to get a game.

The dishonor system is working fine, the number of QQ from the games has halved, and if you tab through the staging area most times you are unlikely to find more than one or two people with dishonor hexes on them, and from looking at their titles, they are usually noobs that haven't learn to play by the rules yet. Those that really hate the hex don't play, it's that simple, I doubt if anyone would notice the loss in numbers.

lol this is people response to everything.
Spend a day in Luxon aspenwood and youll end up seeing good ole J.R.
And youll see the team report him AND youll see him in the next match.

People who are claiming that former leavers just suicide instead...have you played RA recently? I jump in there whenever I'm not actively doing something else / waiting for guildies for something, and I still have yet to see a guy suicide because of team composition. Not to mention, that cannot possibly make the situation any worse than it was prior to dishonorable; even if every single person who used to leave or leech just suicided instead, you would have exactly the same situation as before: a 3 on 4. Ergo, dishonorable, at the very worst, leaves RA as it was before (of course, for everyone who's not a leaver). Anything better than utter worst case scenario is an improvement. And, if you bothered to actually go into a game, you would see that there has been a huge improvement, at least in RA.

In FA, I don't know, I haven't been there for quite a while. But in RA at least, dishonorable has been a boon to everyone...who isn't a leaver. And the excuses are tiresome; there's no reason to leave, at all. They put the lower time limit in for a reason. Matches last at most 5 to 10 minutes, and even if you have a dedicated runner (who you should just report for leeching), that time is still whittled down by the 3 on 4 fight. Which, quite often, is very winnable. I'd say I probably win at least a third of fights which are biased against my team for one reason or another (bot, left at the end of the last game too late, lag, loading difficulties, etc).

Random-proceeding, made, or occurring without definite aim, reason, or pattern.

You click the start battle button, you know what you're getting yourself into. I'm referring to random in the broadest sense of the term. You could get a good team, you could get griefers or people who desire to ruin your fun.

The dishonorable hex works. It is designed with the idea that it will make more people happy than upset them. I'm happy with it, on the occasions that I do Random Arenas or Alliance Battles.

This is a game. It is designed to give you pleasure. There will always be problems when you put two human beings together, it is a PART of life. The fact that you whine and complain means you have yet to accept it.

That's my opinion. Take it or leave it, I won't argue it. It ruins my fun.

lol Titles and the problems they create It all started with /rank. Lets make a bad concept worse & introduce 40 more.
Im speechless

Funny, because how many times was this question asked here?

8 pages of discussion and you're the only one mentioning this case. This does not look like a generalised problem to me.

Didn't read any farther than that, BTW.

No, I'm implying that people whining for the specific reasons mentioned don't. You can't count on having any specific build, so you need to prepare for common contingencies. Sometimes doing that will cause you to lose by being spread to thin, but more often than not it benefits you in RA to be prepared for common tactics including the need to be self-reliant in managing your own health, the need to be prepared to strip protective enchantments, and the need to be able to catch people moving at different speeds.

That's just how it is in RA.

Most of the rest of the whiners are just jerks who aren't willing to stick with a team that they think will lose, so they map out and short the team usually guaranteeing it loses.

The point being, either way the hex is working to eliminate many of the people who were ruining it for everyone else.

Yea, you can pick your teammates. Which is exactly the countermeasure required by the people whining about "bad" players and non-exact builds.

If it's a legit tactic, stay. You might just win.

If it's just griefing, report the person for harrassment and map out. As has been reiterated maybe fifty five thousand times now to people like you, leaving because of the occasional griefing running or tanker is not going to give you the hex unless you're unlucky enough to get two or three in a row.

Not likely.

People these days - especially people online - have a hard time understanding that they're not the only person in a community. I have a theory (where "theory" is defined as "I thought about it for a few minutes one day while trimming my nose hairs in front of the bathroom mirror") about that: people are, in general, becoming more insular and selfish. You can easily see it in communities all over the place. Neighbors don't know each others' names, they're unwilling to help each other out when needbe, etc. It's being reinforced in kids too with the increasingly prevelant ideas that education and social programs are commodities that are purchased through taxes (e.g. people come to expect that they, personally, should receive whatever level of attention they want because "I pay my taxes for this").

The internet just reinforces this because not only do you have the general decline of community-centric thought processes, you also have the isolation of the computer screen. In a game like this, you really are part of a larger community, but you appear to yourself to be an individual.

As such, people experience things and just automatically extrapolate that experience to the community, or just demand that their personal issues be investigated and corrected.

Of course, I could be completely full of crap, too. I'm a programmer, not a sociologist.

There are some posts sometime that make a whole thread worse the whinning/QQing. Really! Grats and thanks for the thought, I share it too.

I'll add that MMOs make this phenomenon more and more obvious, and thus may act as a "feedback loop" for this lack of perspective (how funny was this march from this US politician in WoW?). There will be a time where people will remember these days as "our education to the electronic world" (which funnily won't be that different from the netiquette from the early Usenet; and I may add that what separates us from this world is resolving mort important issues like famine, war and poverty, and then only having the whole humanity online, but this may never happen).

The lack of perspective, that's all this thread is about.

Programmers are normal people you know (of course you do ).

Thatis actually a VERY valid sociology phenomina going on in the last 20 years. There is a well known book/series of lectures written about the loss of "social capital"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone

This thread isnt all about glad points.
When I wrote the OP I was talking about FA.
People just assumed that this only affected RA and glad points.
Thats because I was talking about FA and everyone turned this into RA.
like I said spend a day on luxon side in FA and youll see JR just like everyone else.

You've turned the example of ONE guy (well, that's what you say anyway) into the fail of a system. If he's effectively been reported (as you say) and he's still here, I guess it's been overlooked at Anet.

(I've been moderator on a huge forum where you could get up to 10 posts per second at worst times and dozens of reports where you need to track down the information and I can tell you it's not an easy job contrarily to what you seem to suggest, people make mistakes and that does not mean that you have to point your finger at the system)