My paragon's buddies

Zinger314

Zinger314

Debbie Downer

Join Date: May 2006

N/Me

Question: What's the best class as the SY! other than Paragon?

xDusT II

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Melbourne

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zinger314
Question: What's the best class as the SY! other than Paragon? Warrior with Dragon Slash, For Great Justice and other stuff.

Savor Silversword

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2007

Sweden

Arrogant High [rank]

Mo/

What is the best monk build with these heroes?

Mr Pink57

Mr Pink57

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

a van down by the river

iBench

P/W

I think the Hex Heavy team just got very strong with a 50hp bonus. It may be a small heal but it adds up.

pink

MrGuildBoi

MrGuildBoi

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

A/

^ i think you mean small heal but it adds up :P

ALF71BE

ALF71BE

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2008

In your fridge, stealing your pickles. for mah subway

R/

Would Kyril's Fervor work for the D/N hero?

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Kyril%27s_Fervor

I kinda like when stuff has more hp, especially a caster hero...

Also, are Windwalker's insignias preferred over Survivor's?

Thanks and great team btw .

MrGuildBoi

MrGuildBoi

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

A/

More HP, More Sac, faster death =o

Brodly

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Aug 2006

Netherlands

N/

Is this necro SY! build with the heroes more effective than sabway?

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGuildBoi
More HP, More Sac, faster death =o Yet the hero is shown with a minor blood and not superior. The AI generally preys on the target with the least amount of health, a character that performs by saccing health should not be that target. If a monk is being hit it's no big deal since the monk is still able to perform its role in the party. A physical can still attack and build adrenaline, an elementalist can continue to throw off spells. When the order bot comes under fire there is a greater risk of death given the nature of its duty. A higher health will tell the AI to focus their assault on someone else instead, allowing the sacrificing of health to become less of an issue.

Greedy Gus

Greedy Gus

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2006

Striking Distance

Finally got around to trying out this team for some vanquishing. Tried two areas and got dominated super fast (playing dslash SY war). First was drakkar lake, and forgot about all the hexes on the jotuns (especially the VoR buff, really hurts anyone trying to spam skills) so I wasn't using the dual empathic version. Second I went to try it in hex-low unwaking waters, but still took way too many deaths just trying to fight through the small initial shiroken mobs, with so much block having a difficult time to keep SY without any breaks (and the team exploding for some reason whenever it goes down).

Do you find this should work relatively universally with just proper player tactics (been awhile since I did PvE), or is it more specific with bad mob matchups to be avoided? Has this worked well for anyone with a melee character who takes longer to change targets than a paragon when avoiding block skills?

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greedy Gus
Do you find this should work relatively universally with just proper player tactics (been awhile since I did PvE), or is it more specific with bad mob matchups to be avoided? Has this worked well for anyone with a melee character who takes longer to change targets than a paragon when avoiding block skills? I've done the same and played with it on both warrior and paragon. From what I remember everything felt significantly more difficult as a player warrior than player paragon. Despite both builds using "Save Yourselves!" the lack of "There's Nothing To Fear!" on a warrior definitely shows that constant +100 AL is by no means an easy victory. The party heal and damage reduction from armor ignoring sources over 10 seconds is fairly significant.

Calling targets helps somewhat if a flag is set. The AI tries to stay within a certain radius of a human player; henchmen to the party leader, heroes to whoever owns them. As any melee profession that radius can change quite frequently over the course of combat resulting in AI that moves more frequently instead of taking action. This becomes even more of an issue for henchmen and their lack of proper equipment/runes. With less health they're targeted more often, forcing them to kite and stay within the player's range. Setting a flag creates an anchor and their positioning becomes less focused on where you stand. Call a target to make sure they move with you when you do engage, and to ensure focus fire when moving.

One issue that you can't really avoid is the whole melee weapon/ranged weapon behavior. If you are the only party member using a melee weapon enjoy all of the physical hate. At the very least in areas with a lot of blind bring a second melee physical (if you don't already) and switch to a wand/spear (wand is more effective) so you can still maintain the defense. Sitting on that sword set means no DPS or +100 AL, may as well eliminate one of those penalties. Especially on hard mode; anything that blinds will do so frequently. Remove the condition and it's back just like that. Another option is calling a target and letting the AI run ahead so the paragons absorb the hate. Granted this tactic can backfire if they're hard hitting and wipe out something before you can build "Save Yourselves!". I would limit such a strategy against enemies with long recharging physical hate skills for the aforementioned reasons.

I haven't played since the AI was updated last so I can't comment on anything that may have influenced the effectiveness of these strategies.

Destro Maniak

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2006

A/

awesomeness

in dictionaries awesomeness should have "pls look http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10254869"

really working good

used this in areas without exploitable corpse I used this with 2monk-2warrior instead of sabway, worked awesome

ahem.

ahem.

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quebec, Canada

R/

Would this build be still viable even without SY and TNTF ?

germanturkey

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2005

[PoW]

E/

yes, but its effectiveness would be greatly limited. SY and TNTF is used to keep the team alive by mitigating damage. without it, it'd blow through your team.

SnipiousMax

SnipiousMax

Perfectly Elocuted

Join Date: Sep 2005

Is that Order's dervish dependent on this team build? or can it be used as a monk substitute in any Physical Heavy team?

-Lotus-

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by upier View Post
If I am playing with h/h - they are all my bitches. This is a slightly valid point. but the monk still doesnt have the time/energy to waste on players hurting themselves.

Edited by Celestial Beaver: Please keep hostile comments out of this discussion.

Racthoh

Racthoh

Did I hear 7 heroes?

Join Date: May 2005

Scars Meadows [SMS], Guild Leader (Not Recruiting)

Really I just put it in there as a means of getting a little more energy from Masochism to spam more. Blood, Channeling, and Soul Reaping don't exactly give any decent options.

Servant of Kali

Servant of Kali

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

Me/

Did I understood this correctly? If I'm not using overpowered PvE faction skill, this team build is but okayish?

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

I decided to take away OOP in tougher HM areas and just have DF. This would bring down my damage but I get more heals in return and I can keep blood at 5. The D/N is alot stronger now and I got more healing from her.

I came up with something like this for a more defensive version:

[build prof=D/N blo=5 win=10 earthp=10 mys=10][Dark Fury][Mystic Healing][Pious Restoration][Mystic Regeneration][Imbue Health][Signet of Pious Light][Pious Renewal][Vow of Piety][/build]

Anwyn

Banned

Join Date: Feb 2009

YaRR Bear Pirates

P/W

What do you guys do for Morgan in the 4 man setup since AB nerf?

MasterSasori

MasterSasori

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

USA

[Thay]

R/Mo

These questions I also posted on the Paragon Campfire so some of the questions overlap. I wasn't sure where did it belong.

First off, [song of purification] is great for removing condition. But really, what conditions other than blind is really an issue for Paraway? As long as SY is up and you receive semi-decent healing, conditions really aren't too much of a problem. Wouldn't [song of restoration] just be better in general?

If conditions are really an issue, I propose an alternative build:

N/Rt

Restoration 12
Soul Reaping 10+1+1
Blood Magic 8+1

[weapon of remedy][dark fury][order of pain][mend body and soul][spirit light][ghostmirror light][life][signet of lost souls]

Removes conditions fairly well, provides good healing. I put GML instead of PwK because the 20% enchant mod will make DF and OoP 7 sec instead of 5.

I also don't see how [hexbreaker aria] will really help with hexes for the Paras. I assumed that whole reason for such heavy hex removal was for stuff like Faintheartedness and Soothing Memories.

Also, I don't like Mending Refrain too much. [Finale of Restoration] looks much more promising. [Zealous Anthem] looks really good as well.

Invincible

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Mar 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori View Post
First off, [song of purification] is great for removing condition. But really, what conditions other than blind is really an issue for Paraway? As long as SY is up and you receive semi-decent healing, conditions really aren't too much of a problem. Wouldn't [song of restoration] just be better in general?
I use it most of the time, although its a random heal, it helps. Especially on the order. i only use SoP in condition heavy places.


Quote: Originally Posted by MasterSasori View Post If conditions are really an issue, I propose an alternative build:

N/Rt

Restoration 12
Soul Reaping 10+1+1
Blood Magic 8+1

[weapon of remedy][dark fury][order of pain][mend body and soul][spirit light][ghostmirror light][life][signet of lost souls] I've used the same build but i found this guy dying more often then the D/N.

as for the D/N i use a slightly modified build then rac's.

[Order derv;OgSkQoq56xqj3dSYIuvhX2L4t8C]

i have an extra minor earth prayers rune so i reach the +3 regeneration.
I found that she puts a lot less pressure one the healers, she keeps [Mystic Regeneration] on almost all the time.
If you compare this with the amount she uses [Dwayna's Touch], it is worth it.

Quote: Originally Posted by MasterSasori View Post
Removes conditions fairly well, provides good healing. I put GML instead of PwK because the 20% enchant mod will make DF and OoP 7 sec instead of 5. That would be 6 seconds.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori View Post
I also don't see how [hexbreaker aria] will really help with hexes for the Paras. I assumed that whole reason for such heavy hex removal was for stuff like Faintheartedness and Soothing Memories.

Also, I don't like Mending Refrain too much. [Finale of Restoration] looks much more promising. [Zealous Anthem] looks really good as well. i also dont use [mending refrain] but i do take [Signet of Synergy] sometimes. I know most ppl dont like this skill, but it helps.

housecalls

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2006

Ok. Given i dont know Para's very well, skill updates and 20 odd pages of this thread i have no idea what the 3 hero build is anymore.
Has the OP been updated as time goes?

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

this should be unstickied, outdated.

xanarot

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

[GoE]

R/

Last edit, 5-may.... 2008.

So i was wondering the same, is this setup (OP post) still viable or just keep the sabway and other 3 necro setups?

Omgopolis

Academy Page

Join Date: May 2007

W/

I still use it in some areas where corpses aren't available for minions. It hasn't really been nerfed at all recently, at least there are no nerfs that I can think of. It's especially nice in hex heavy areas if you take two copies of empathic removal on the heroes, and being able to kill single targets fast without having to apply a hex and condition like discord requires is nice.

I still use discord for most stuff though anyway, but paras are nice too.

AznAndy

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2009

Netherlands

Avatar of Heroes

W/

Racthoh, question about the warrior build u posted up here, i havnt tested it out yet, but is it possible to keep SY! up with FGJ because after that FGJ has ended the next 25 seconds you don't have double adrenaline.. (but maybe i should just test it out first b4 i ask this :P)

Bloody Dominator

Bloody Dominator

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2009

Belgium

Sent Fromhell [SFH]

D/

Maybe this is better for the derv Lyssa build:

D/W:

Scythe Mastery: 12+1+1
Mysticism: 12+1

[Radiant Scythe][Victorious Sweep][Aura of Holy Might][Heart of Fury][For Great Justice][Save Yourselfs][Avatar of Lyssa][Eternal Aura]

[Radiant scythe] for making most use of extra energy provided by Lyssa.
Since u have [Heart Of Fury] u maybe could leave out [For Great Justice] and take another attack skill, since ull be attacking faster ull be gaining adrenalline faster to.

Just an idea i came up with nothing big, but i think better then the build that is posted there now. could also be that someone alrdy suggested this, i didnt wanna read thro all the 24 pages

beagle warrior

beagle warrior

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

[HERE]

W/

is there any way to fit SoH onto one of the paras? i would try myself but im not very good with making/changing builds.

Paul Dawg

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2008

House of Myrthe (HoMe)

W/

I'm have to wonder about the Command guy. What's the point if the only Command skill is anthem of envy--which isn't so great anyway? (When I use the command para, I have him call "go for the eyes" instead of anthem of envy.) So why not combine the strongest points of the motigon and the command para with a bar like this?

8+1 spear mastery, 11+1 leadership, 11+1+1 motivation (or something like that--a total of 12 or 14 leadership is nice so that you get the extra level of max energy for shouts and chants)

aggressive refrain
chorus of restoration
finale of restoration
blazing finale
"they're on fire!"
song of purification
hexbreaker aria
signet of return/signet of synergy

You could find a spot for aria of zeal too, though I don't usually see that it's really needed.

Anyway, that frees up an entire hero slot for someone else, and all you're forgoing are the spear skills. Frankly, I don't think the spear skills are all that great except for cruel spear and stunning strike, and you could easily use one of those instead of song of purification if you have another way of removing conditions on another hero (such as foul feast).

Mr Pink57

Mr Pink57

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

a van down by the river

iBench

P/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Dawg
View Post
I'm have to wonder about the Command guy. What's the point if the only Command skill is anthem of envy--which isn't so great anyway? (When I use the command para, I have him call "go for the eyes" instead of anthem of envy.) So why not combine the strongest points of the motigon and the command para with a bar like this?

8+1 spear mastery, 11+1 leadership, 11+1+1 motivation (or something like that--a total of 12 or 14 leadership is nice so that you get the extra level of max energy for shouts and chants)

aggressive refrain
chorus of restoration
finale of restoration
blazing finale
"they're on fire!"
song of purification
hexbreaker aria
signet of return/signet of synergy

You could find a spot for aria of zeal too, though I don't usually see that it's really needed.

Anyway, that frees up an entire hero slot for someone else, and all you're forgoing are the spear skills. Frankly, I don't think the spear skills are all that great except for cruel spear and stunning strike, and you could easily use one of those instead of song of purification if you have another way of removing conditions on another hero (such as foul feast). If you are removing all spear skills then what is the point of the orders derv? You've just turned a great damage paragon into the worst paragon build I have seen. Also the command paragon is a Stunning Strike para which as you said is a great attack (and it is).

The beauty of a paragon was and always will be is great damage plus support.

I still do not know why people hang on to the "They're On Fire" and Blazing Finale setup? The only time "They're On Fire" would be maybe worth it would be with a bunch of SF eles.

pink

Paul Dawg

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2008

House of Myrthe (HoMe)

W/

Honestly, I don't think the orders derv meets the price of admission and therefore I don't use him. (This has been discussed on other threads.) The problem with Paraway generally is that it takes up all three hero slots and I don't see that you get enough bang for the buck. I'd rather combine the two paras into one by editing out Command entirely, skip the orders derv too, and then use two other heroes that can bring more to the table.

If you like stunning strike so much, then, as I said, you can certainly use it on that bar. What are the oh-so-magnificent spear skills that have to be on a para bar? Nothing that isn't outclassed by a single splinter weapon carried by a DIFFERENT hero. No splinter weap = paraway isn't really such a damage machine as people say.

Lastly, at 12 leadership, blazing finale causes adjacent burning for six seconds. That's quite a lot, and fully justifies "They're on fire." If you have a SY spammer and other party-wide shouts, there's going to be a lot of burning with blazing finale.

Tbh I think Paraway needs a complete overhaul; many of the ideas that Gigashadow was presenting in other threads seem more up-to-date and useful to me.