Don't want to from with a secondary profession
ogre_jd
Care to show us evidence that it's *because* of the lack of tanking that the runs're fast?
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by ogre_jd
Care to show us evidence that it's *because* of the lack of tanking that the runs're fast?
The new guy has a point 
And... there was some thread somewhere, or probably a few threads, discussing Ursan or tank-n-spank and the duality and all that jazz, were people had posted times for beating DoA and shizzle, and essentially, Ursan and duality (imbagon + good bars and tear through shit) times were faster than tank n spank times in every case.
Can't find the threads though, they're likely long dead in Riverside
And... there was some thread somewhere, or probably a few threads, discussing Ursan or tank-n-spank and the duality and all that jazz, were people had posted times for beating DoA and shizzle, and essentially, Ursan and duality (imbagon + good bars and tear through shit) times were faster than tank n spank times in every case.
Can't find the threads though, they're likely long dead in Riverside
Beomagi
Quote:
Originally Posted by behling
so im doing the secondary profession quest now. in prophecy. i tried all of them, but i can't make up my mind on wats gd for my warrior. because they only gave a few skills so imho i tink its not enuff when making a big decision. i need all the pros help here. i play most mmorpgs solo and pve only. thx would like to hear your reason of selection. thx.
You can get ALL and change when the need arises.
SERIOUSLY. GET ALL, And experiment!
If not for any other reason than getting skill so that your heros have a wider range of choices available.
Personally, I like antidote signet over the popular necro's plague touch for dealing with conditions. plague touch can have you in a panic if you run out of energy, and I really don't care if i'm dazed. You CAN come up with certain pet builds that are fun and somewhat effective - say, using ferocious strike for energy/adr and damage to help spamming your own attack. A pet REQUIRES skillls though. Charm + comfort aren't so much skills are they are plain necessary.
This is prophecies pve after all, no need for the cookies.
W/E can help with your farming. I used to farm elona reach minotaurs. whirlwind+aftershock. I'd go in with gladiators, build adrenaline, use bonetti's for energy, ww/aftershock, other shield stance goto 0 and do this for exp and drops. Don't forget the power of conjure skills - these used to be much less powerful early on when prophecies was around. You may find you like whirlwind JUST for the ability to knock down any foe next to you thats attacking. It's cheap too.
I actually never liked running w/mo. There's a few nice skills, especially for farming. I just never used it effectively.
Mesmer - if you're soloing, you MAY find the need to take a skill because the henchmen/heros are not doing what they should. Say you're doing a mission where there's a couple nasty boss spellcasters. something like Backfire may hurt your build as a general warrior but can help on a specific mission. Hexbreaker is always nice too.
But, I can't stress enough. Get them all - AND cap skills. You can run pure warrior, and very efficiently too. It's options that you and your heros can use later. Your choice depends on what you're doing. GW builds are usually highly specific.
SERIOUSLY. GET ALL, And experiment!
If not for any other reason than getting skill so that your heros have a wider range of choices available.
Personally, I like antidote signet over the popular necro's plague touch for dealing with conditions. plague touch can have you in a panic if you run out of energy, and I really don't care if i'm dazed. You CAN come up with certain pet builds that are fun and somewhat effective - say, using ferocious strike for energy/adr and damage to help spamming your own attack. A pet REQUIRES skillls though. Charm + comfort aren't so much skills are they are plain necessary.
This is prophecies pve after all, no need for the cookies.
W/E can help with your farming. I used to farm elona reach minotaurs. whirlwind+aftershock. I'd go in with gladiators, build adrenaline, use bonetti's for energy, ww/aftershock, other shield stance goto 0 and do this for exp and drops. Don't forget the power of conjure skills - these used to be much less powerful early on when prophecies was around. You may find you like whirlwind JUST for the ability to knock down any foe next to you thats attacking. It's cheap too.
I actually never liked running w/mo. There's a few nice skills, especially for farming. I just never used it effectively.
Mesmer - if you're soloing, you MAY find the need to take a skill because the henchmen/heros are not doing what they should. Say you're doing a mission where there's a couple nasty boss spellcasters. something like Backfire may hurt your build as a general warrior but can help on a specific mission. Hexbreaker is always nice too.
But, I can't stress enough. Get them all - AND cap skills. You can run pure warrior, and very efficiently too. It's options that you and your heros can use later. Your choice depends on what you're doing. GW builds are usually highly specific.
isamu kurosawa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
........
Guild Wars was designed to be more direct combar oriented which is why warriors are much more capable of dealing damage, tanking was the opposite of the devs concept for the game.
To furthar discourage the use of tanking in the game there where various AI updates in relation to target selection as well as AoE scatter, Yet people without the skill to play properly held onto the method as a crutch.
These are the same people who complain the game is too hard in some areas or that some areas take too long to complete and should be adjusted.
Tanking was always possible and can be done by any profession. It is not however an effective means of play.
Tanking is rigid, unforgiving of human error and slow. It cannot adapt to any situation that might arise and is genrally subpar.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Flem
Warriors can tank, deal damage, shutdown, pressure, be a runner, and dance like a pimp. Why do you box yourselves in to one little aspect? If that's what you want to do, fine. But quit trying to confine every new player into the same little chamber.
This is why warriors typically have the "meat head" reputation. You guys think so 2-D. A decent warrior build can deal damage, shutdown, pressure and spike all in one. A tank tanks, thats it. How is using a more versatile setup thinking in 2d while using the most rigid method available any better? If i had the time i'd record a video of somewhre like slavers exile being done in a decent team to show the effectiveness. I don't have the time nor the patience however as people who use tank setups refuse to learn regardless of the evidence of past video and screenshot posts.
Crom The Pale
Fastest and easiest time I've ever had in FoW was when I took 4 Wars 1Ranger/pet and 3 Monks. 0 tanking involved we just chewed up foes fast and furiously.
Keep in mind there are also areas where tanking requires far more effort than the standard builds do. Try running a stance tank in Tomb of Primevil Kings or Enchanted tanks in mesmer heavy maps. These are rarer ocurances but they do happen. behling
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beomagi
You can get ALL and change when the need arises.
SERIOUSLY. GET ALL, And experiment! If not for any other reason than getting skill so that your heros have a wider range of choices available. Personally, I like antidote signet over the popular necro's plague touch for dealing with conditions. plague touch can have you in a panic if you run out of energy, and I really don't care if i'm dazed. You CAN come up with certain pet builds that are fun and somewhat effective - say, using ferocious strike for energy/adr and damage to help spamming your own attack. A pet REQUIRES skillls though. Charm + comfort aren't so much skills are they are plain necessary. This is prophecies pve after all, no need for the cookies. W/E can help with your farming. I used to farm elona reach minotaurs. whirlwind+aftershock. I'd go in with gladiators, build adrenaline, use bonetti's for energy, ww/aftershock, other shield stance goto 0 and do this for exp and drops. Don't forget the power of conjure skills - these used to be much less powerful early on when prophecies was around. You may find you like whirlwind JUST for the ability to knock down any foe next to you thats attacking. It's cheap too. I actually never liked running w/mo. There's a few nice skills, especially for farming. I just never used it effectively. Mesmer - if you're soloing, you MAY find the need to take a skill because the henchmen/heros are not doing what they should. Say you're doing a mission where there's a couple nasty boss spellcasters. something like Backfire may hurt your build as a general warrior but can help on a specific mission. Hexbreaker is always nice too. But, I can't stress enough. Get them all - AND cap skills. You can run pure warrior, and very efficiently too. It's options that you and your heros can use later. Your choice depends on what you're doing. GW builds are usually highly specific. oooooo. i've already gone with W/E, gonna try that out. heheh.
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa
Guild Wars was designed to be more direct combar oriented which is why warriors are much more capable of dealing damage, tanking was the opposite of the devs concept for the game. |
Quote:
These are the same people who complain the game is too hard in some areas or that some areas take too long to complete and should be adjusted.
Tanking was always possible and can be done by any profession. It is not however an effective means of play.
Tanking is rigid, unforgiving of human error and slow. It cannot adapt to any situation that might arise and is genrally subpar. You can't really believe that they nerfed AoE just because of tanking... Every single class has some form of AoE and enemies are obviously set to pick a single target above just scattering.
Tanking is effective. You saying it like it's a fact does not make it so. It's not the only way to go, but I never said it was.
Tanking has set-backs just like all other PvE tactics. Nerfs make sure it stays that way.
Quote:
I'm not saying that at all. I tired of people shunning tanking saying it's not viable, when it is. Also, the rigid thinking I am referring to is Imbagon. Everyone on this forum runs that and only that, it seems.|
A decent warrior build can deal damage, shutdown, pressure and spike all in one. A tank tanks, thats it. How is using a more versatile setup thinking in 2d while using the most rigid method available any better? If i had the time i'd record a video of somewhre like slavers exile being done in a decent team to show the effectiveness. I don't have the time nor the patience however as people who use tank setups refuse to learn regardless of the evidence of past video and screenshot posts. A tank tanks because that is the style of play. That means there are 7 other classes that can focus on doing their job at peak performance. It's funny that you say others refuse to accept other options, because that's EXACTLY what you are doing. You want it one way or no way. I'm saying that their are several effective ways to play. Your the hard-headed one. Infact, the people on this forum are the most hard-headed and stubborn people of all of GW. That's why your always referred to as elitests. Just like snobby, pretentious high schoolers. Maybe I'm too old for this place or something.
Yukito Kunisaki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
I disagree. I believe they wanted that to be one of several possiblities for warrior. After all, GW is all about diversity. Why just have another, plain-jane, damage-dealing class?
Why just have another tank you can find in every other Online RPG known to internet ready humans?
Defensive tanks are literally a dime a million on the gaming world today as a whole. There's an infinite [literally] number of guides of rpgs about how you can defensively tank and be pretty much invincible in some games [the fact that you can't hurt even a mouse is kinda not worth it in my play style] plain-jane? There's nothing plain about the Guild Wars warrior when in comparison to other RPGs at all. GW warriors kill things. If not faster than a caster [finally], they can kill and be extremely safe as well. Nearly Godlike? I highly disagree. A warrior that's crippled, hexed, snared is just as useless as well... A defensive tank... I've never taken part in these no-tank Underworld parties but I have a stronger belief in that 99% offensive builds will do zones faster than one using a tank. Enemies in PvE [and apparently, even Hard mode, which I have trouble facing solo], are dying fast enough to never need a tank that uses defensive skills. Watch Yourself gives everyone a minor damage shield and Save Yourselves turns everyone into warriors and then some in terms of armor. Those two skills are all the tank a party would need I imagine...
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki
Why just have another tank you can find in every other Online RPG known to internet ready humans?
Defensive tanks are literally a dime a million on the gaming world today as a whole. There's an infinite [literally] number of guides of rpgs about how you can defensively tank and be pretty much invincible in some games [the fact that you can't hurt even a mouse is kinda not worth it in my play style] plain-jane? There's nothing plain about the Guild Wars warrior when in comparison to other RPGs at all. GW warriors kill things. If not faster than a caster [finally], they can kill and be extremely safe as well. Nearly Godlike? I highly disagree. A warrior that's crippled, hexed, snared is just as useless as well... A defensive tank... I've never taken part in these no-tank Underworld parties but I have a stronger belief in that 99% offensive builds will do zones faster than one using a tank. Enemies in PvE [and apparently, even Hard mode, which I have trouble facing solo], are dying fast enough to never need a tank that uses defensive skills. Watch Yourself gives everyone a minor damage shield and Save Yourselves turns everyone into warriors and then some in terms of armor. Those two skills are all the tank a party would need I imagine... Yes, Save Yourselves is a working build. Not denying that. But your turning into everyone else. Is that the only way to run PvE? No, not even close. Tanking can be/is very valuable. Why bring up other games? Every RPG is basically the same. What's your point? If we are just trying to break the mold, lets get the Nukers (every game has them) to only melee. Lets get Healers (every game has them) to only nuke....etc. In GW, every class can do something other then it was intended, but that DOES NOT mean that they all only have that one option. I know! Since we are breaking the mold of other games, lets have a party of no healers, tanks, support, or damage dealers....Lets not bring any weapons, skills, or armor either. Every class can play, at least, a couple roles very effectively. This isn't Sega, we can customize.
isamu kurosawa
I was going to reply till i saw yukito has posted pretty much what i'd say.
You seem to think that people wanting to run a more versatile build over a tanking one makes them stuck on a single idea yet those builds could also if you wanted to, tank. sticking PS or spirit bond alone on a warrior would make them capable of tanking while still outputting massive amounts of damage. A warrior is not just another damage dealing class. Before the new professions came out it was THE damage dealing class in the game, completely different from all other games and alot of people aggree thats a good thing. The way armour is designed also makes warriors more useful for dealing damage than ele's unlike other games.
Yukito Kunisaki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
Why bring up other games? Every RPG is basically the same. What's your point? If we are just trying to break the mold, lets get the Nukers (every game has them) to only melee. Lets get Healers (every game has them) to only nuke....etc. In GW, every class can do something other then it was intended, but that DOES NOT mean that they all only have that one option.
I bring up other games and yes every rpg is basically the same. It's all in degrees. Name me an RPG that doesn't involve equipment, leveling up, or skills? Hell, D&D, the RPG in 'pure' form to some people has all that at least.
Every RPG except Guild Wars, where warriors can do more than sit there and get raped while the rest of the party gets free hits. I don't appreciate being in that role, though my preference to beefy armor types is a weakness [in other rpgs, I like the heavy armor shield wielders even if they did do no damage, I still try to gear them with high strength stats or what not to hurt things] Every RPG has a melee shield who doesn't contribute to damage. No RPG has a Guild Wars warrior capable of downing a foe in 3 or so hits using Deep Wound. I'm turning into everyone else using Save Yourselves? You're turning the GW warrior into the warrior every other RPG has. At least with ONLY SY!! on your skill bar as a defensive skill you can still kill foes extremely quickly. That's the point of the GW warrior. Again, my gripe is when you try different ways to deal damage [the core of the GW warrior], people rip you to pieces... Different ways to tank? Been there done that. Play other rpgs... Unique ways to do damage? That's cool, but nobody likes it, ah well...  Hmm, I should add to your argument though, that if you brought a bunch of defensive skills, but still kept a spike of some sort, I personally wouldn't get too psychotic *like some board members here* if you brought an axe with Dismember / Triple Chop as your only attack skills. At least you're doing more damage than an 8 defense skill warrior. Balancing between offense and defense is better than going all defensive. I feel as though you're advocating bringing ONLY defensive skills on a warrior and that a warrior that doesn't do deep wound is still capable of helping his party. For the record... he's not...
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa
You seem to think that people wanting to run a more versatile build over a tanking one makes them stuck on a single idea yet those builds could also if you wanted to, tank. sticking PS or spirit bond alone on a warrior would make them capable of tanking while still outputting massive amounts of damage. A warrior is not just another damage dealing class. Before the new professions came out it was THE damage dealing class in the game, completely different from all other games and alot of people aggree thats a good thing. The way armour is designed also makes warriors more useful for dealing damage than ele's unlike other games. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki
I bring up other games and yes every rpg is basically the same. It's all in degrees. Name me an RPG that doesn't involve equipment, leveling up, or skills? Hell, D&D, the RPG in 'pure' form to some people has all that at least.
Every RPG except Guild Wars, where warriors can do more than sit there and get raped while the rest of the party gets free hits. I don't appreciate being in that role, though my preference to beefy armor types is a weakness [in other rpgs, I like the heavy armor shield wielders even if they did do no damage, I still try to gear them with high strength stats or what not to hurt things] Every RPG has a melee shield who doesn't contribute to damage. No RPG has a Guild Wars warrior capable of downing a foe in 3 or so hits using Deep Wound. I'm turning into everyone else using Save Yourselves? You're turning the GW warrior into the warrior every other RPG has. At least with ONLY SY!! on your skill bar as a defensive skill you can still kill foes extremely quickly. That's the point of the GW warrior. Again, my gripe is when you try different ways to deal damage [the core of the GW warrior], people rip you to pieces... Different ways to tank? Been there done that. Play other rpgs... Unique ways to do damage? That's cool, but nobody likes it, ah well... Hmm, I should add to your argument though, that if you brought a bunch of defensive skills, but still kept a spike of some sort, I personally wouldn't get too psychotic *like some board members here* if you brought an axe with Dismember / Triple Chop as your only attack skills. At least you're doing more damage than an 8 defense skill warrior. Balancing between offense and defense is better than going all defensive. I feel as though you're advocating bringing ONLY defensive skills on a warrior and that a warrior that doesn't do deep wound is still capable of helping his party. For the record... he's not... Actually, according what the party needs a warrior to run, they can easily have attack skills and def. skills. And not only a warrior can tank. Also, even if a warrior has 7 def. skills and 1 attack skill, the team can still be very effective, according to what enemies they are facing. GW is very situational. That's why it's fun.
Yukito Kunisaki
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
And not only a warrior can tank. Also, even if a warrior has 7 def. skills and 1 attack skill, the team can still be very effective, according to what enemies they are facing.
That's not balanced at all... I do NOT agree.
No SINGLE attack skill can benefit a party. At least, bare minimum bring a spike. I'll take Evis. Exe strike, Sever Gash Final, or Devastating Hamm Crushing Blow Mighty Blow. I'm all for offensive warrior tanks. I'm somewhat in favor of balanced tanks *50% attack, 50% everything else* I'm NOT in favor of defensive oriented. Warriors DONT' NEED 7 SKILLS TO DEFEND. You should know that. And the majority will agree with me even if they didn't, I'd rather have balance over defensive. *best defense is a good offense* applies best to warrior here. P.S. Once everyone is under Save Yourselves, I believe everyone can tank...
isamu kurosawa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
I'm not saying that at all. I tired of people shunning tanking saying it's not viable, when it is. Also, the rigid thinking I am referring to is Imbagon. Everyone on this forum runs that and only that, it seems.
the imbagon setup is one of many high damage passive defence options good players here run. If your H/Hing and your not playing para you can't take it anyway.
other examples are mind blast ele's fueling aegis, any number of hybrid Rt bars etc.
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukito Kunisaki
No SINGLE attack skill can benefit a party. At least, bare minimum bring a spike. I'll take Evis. Exe strike, Sever Gash Final, or Devastating Hamm Crushing Blow Mighty Blow. I'm all for offensive warrior tanks. I'm somewhat in favor of balanced tanks *50% attack, 50% everything else* I'm NOT in favor of defensive oriented. Warriors DONT' NEED 7 SKILLS TO DEFEND. You should know that. And the majority will agree with me even if they didn't, I'd rather have balance over defensive. *best defense is a good offense* applies best to warrior here. P.S. Once everyone is under Save Yourselves, I believe everyone can tank... |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by isamu kurosawa
the imbagon setup is one of many high damage passive defence options good players here run. If your H/Hing and your not playing para you can't take it anyway.
other examples are mind blast ele's fueling aegis, any number of hybrid Rt bars etc. This I agree with, versatility of options.
Dr Strangelove
Wait.... you're arguing for diversity and the holy trinity setup in the same breath? Bwuh?
Cherng Butter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
If we are just trying to break the mold, lets get the Nukers (every game has them) to only melee. Lets get Healers (every game has them) to only nuke....etc. In GW, every class can do something other then it was intended, but that DOES NOT mean that they all only have that one option.
Just because they CAN doesn't mean they SHOULD. There's a difference. Tanks are generally crap when you could just run an efficient team build with layered defense.
Asha Rai
Just to add to the debate, I just finished shards of orr in hm, and we walked over the place _using a tank_. Party was set up as:
ranger ursan tank 2 healers rest holy damage (ray of judgment, signet of judgment, heart of holy flame / barrage) To get an idea of the time we took to finish, we got to the end boss on level 3 in under 15 minutes (not including time spent on lvl 1 and 2; which was fast anyhow). The basic strategy was the tank rushes in, then the smiters follow 5 seconds later and pretty much instantly nuke the group of mobs. I cannot imagine a faster way of doing it. Most of the people who deride the use of tanks here (bad players bla bla bla) rely on imbagons to keep themselves alive in hm areas. Nothing wrong with that, except it's as lame as the tanks and ursans they also mock. (They will often dress this reliance up with terms like layered / passive defense.) A lot of the anti tank posts also assume some tank loaded up on stances, earth enchants, etc. I agree that is a very inflexible build, especially when they gimp their mspd. In practice though, a tank need only be able to take a number of hard hits (with the assistance of prot) in order to manage the agro, and make aoe much more effective. One person taking 90% of the hits makes a monks life orders of magnitude easier. Tyla
How does that make tanks good?
People have done it balanced before, and walked all over the place, with no PvE-only skills. Asha Rai
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyla salanari
How does that make tanks good?
People have done it balanced before, and walked all over the place, with no PvE-only skills. We aimed to finish the dungeon as fast as possible. We did it extremely quickly, and our speed and success can be directly attributed to the tank. Therefore, tank = good (in this scenario). Can you be more specific on a balanced build that would do the job as effectively, or better than a tank based build? The metric for effectiveness would be time spent in dungeon; faster = better. (Also, we had 2 heroes in our group, and had to cater to the professions / skills available to the people in the group, so the team was far from optimal). Can you also detail how you would kill as fast without taking full advantage of aoe skills. Tyla
Who said ditch the Smiters?
You might aswell get your arse on vent and do the whole 3...2....1 stuff instead of wasting a party member on tanking. It may be a pure spike instead of balanced, but then, you can bring something else in that party member slot. EDIT: What isamu said about Melandru dervs, too - <3 immunity to conditions.
isamu kurosawa
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asha Rai
We aimed to finish the dungeon as fast as possible.
We did it extremely quickly, and our speed and success can be directly attributed to the tank. Therefore, tank = good (in this scenario). Can you be more specific on a balanced build that would do the job as effectively, or better than a tank based build? The metric for effectiveness would be time spent in dungeon; faster = better. (Also, we had 2 heroes in our group, and had to cater to the professions / skills available to the people in the group, so the team was far from optimal). Can you also detail how you would kill as fast without taking full advantage of aoe skills. 3 melandru dervs, 2 hybird Rts, 1 warder, 2 hybrid monks. Asha Rai
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyla salanari
Who said ditch the Smiters?
You might aswell get your arse on vent and do the whole 3...2....1 stuff instead of wasting a party member on tanking. It may be a pure spike instead of balanced, but then, you can bring something else in that party member slot. No one said ditch the smiters. And by 321 spiking, you imply we kill them one at a time? That would... take longer. Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asha Rai
No one said ditch the smiters.
And by 321 spiking, you imply we kill them one at a time? That would... take longer. I assumed you ment removing the smiters. And by 3...2...1 spiking, I mean 3...2...1 *Ray of Judgement* Asha Rai
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyla salanari
I assumed you ment removing the smiters.
And by 3...2...1 spiking, I mean 3...2...1 *Ray of Judgement* That works fine, except the Ray of Judgment looses effectiveness when targets are spread out. This is exacerbated by the long recharge of Ray of Judgment. With the tank managing agro, we dropped each group in just several seconds. The Melandru's derve approach looks good; must try it some time. Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asha Rai
That works fine, except the Ray of Judgment looses effectiveness when targets are spread out. This is exacerbated by the long recharge of Ray of Judgment.
With the tank managing agro, we dropped each group in just several seconds. The Melandru's derve approach looks good; must try it some time. Arcane Echo gogo? Besides, if you spike them before agro they should fall easily. But you should really replace the tank with an AoM derv for managing aggro, that way you have agro control on him AND some boom. Asha Rai
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyla salanari
Arcane Echo gogo?
Besides, if you spike them before agro they should fall easily. But you should really replace the tank with an AoM derv for managing aggro, that way you have agro control on him AND some boom. Echo would definitely help. We used mantra of signets to echo soj. And, if we have an AoM derve running ahead to manage agro, and consequently take the initial hits.. that would make him a tank yes? And having derailed this thread, I'll stop x:
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asha Rai
And, if we have an AoM derve running ahead to manage agro, and consequently take the initial hits.. that would make him a tank yes?
That makes him a smart frontliner. The definition of 'tank' around here is a guy who wastes his bar on defensive trash and can't hurt anything.
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Cherng Butter
Just because they CAN doesn't mean they SHOULD. There's a difference. Tanks are generally crap when you could just run an efficient team build with layered defense.
Disagree
Savio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
I am only harping so much on tanking, because you are downing it so much. I'm not saying its the best, but it is a very effective way to play the game. Equally as effective is some situations, better and worse in others.
People would believe your bullshit if they hadn't already tried tanking and found out that it's slower and less reliable, not to mention incredibly boring. And they have evidence to support that, unlike your wholly unfounded opinion that tanking is good.
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savio
People would believe your bullshit if they hadn't already tried tanking and found out that it's slower and less reliable, not to mention incredibly boring. And they have evidence to support that, unlike your wholly unfounded opinion that tanking is good.
It's not any of those. How is pressing the 1-8 buttons for def. skills any less then pressing 1-8 skills for offensive skills? OH! That's right, you can't stroke your epeen if your not trying to get the biggest numbers to pop up unstead of working like a team.
P.S your little saying under your name is perfect for describing you. Aggrogant.
Savio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
How is pressing the 1-8 buttons for def. skills any less then pressing 1-8 skills for offensive skills?
When pressing 1-8 offensive skills does things faster than 1-8 defensive skills, then yes, defensive skills are crap.
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
Aggrogant.
Aggrogant: A mending wammo so arrogant that he aggros everything on the map.
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savio
|
Quote:
Aggrogant: A mending wammo so arrogant that he aggros everything on the map.
Aggroing everything on the map is quite lame. Not being a team player is no fun for anyone else.
Savio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
In some situations it can be.
You have yet to specify these situations.
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Savio
You have yet to specify these situations.
I just named a few in the other thread. Check there.
Yichi
Again as many others have said before, there is in no situation where a tank team build will be more effective than an actual useful team build.
Tanks used to be the best way to find PuG's and play with other people through the game. The game changed, the play style changed, so tanking has fallen by the wayside of being decently bad as proven by the majority of players. Many people that do play them don;t even know how to play a tank properly, much less how to hold aggro. This led to a lot slower missions/quests where people who ran actual damage builds found these to be much faster. With the introduction of Factions, brought on the timed missions, where "Tanking" simply wasn't an alternative, you have to move quickly and had to do damage for your team to get trough within the time allotted.
This was Probably the best thing that Factions gave us was the breaking of the "Tank" mentality of most players.
Tanks used to be the best way to find PuG's and play with other people through the game. The game changed, the play style changed, so tanking has fallen by the wayside of being decently bad as proven by the majority of players. Many people that do play them don;t even know how to play a tank properly, much less how to hold aggro. This led to a lot slower missions/quests where people who ran actual damage builds found these to be much faster. With the introduction of Factions, brought on the timed missions, where "Tanking" simply wasn't an alternative, you have to move quickly and had to do damage for your team to get trough within the time allotted.
This was Probably the best thing that Factions gave us was the breaking of the "Tank" mentality of most players.
Cherng Butter
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flem
Disagree
I am simply taken aback by the eloquence of your argument! I have seen the light! I'll cap Obsidian Flesh right away!
Yichi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherng Butter
I am simply taken aback by the eloquence of your argument! I have seen the light! I'll cap Obsidian Flesh right away!
If this keyboard locks up from me spilling my iced tea all over it from laughing too hard, im sending you the bill 
Flem
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yichi
Tanks used to be the best way to find PuG's and play with other people through the game. The game changed, the play style changed, so tanking has fallen by the wayside of being decently bad as proven by the majority of players. Many people that do play them don;t even know how to play a tank properly, much less how to hold aggro. This led to a lot slower missions/quests where people who ran actual damage builds found these to be much faster. With the introduction of Factions, brought on the timed missions, where "Tanking" simply wasn't an alternative, you have to move quickly and had to do damage for your team to get trough within the time allotted.
This was Probably the best thing that Factions gave us was the breaking of the "Tank" mentality of most players.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Cherng Butter
I am simply taken aback by the eloquence of your argument! I have seen the light! I'll cap Obsidian Flesh right away!
That was all that needed to be said to that topic. I try to avoid filler as much as possible.
|