Players. GW. And WoW...

Well I just got into WoW and both games have their merits. I like WoW for the persistent world and the sheer amount of stuff you can do. I like GW because the builds are deeper. In WoW the skills are just clones of each other of varying strength and then you have talents but not many of them. GW definitely has a more robust skill system.

Everquest 2 does that too Str0b0.
At the later levels I had 8 skills that all had the exact same description, just higher numbers. I questioned the devs on the forums as to why they do that.
It's forcing the player to keep relearning what they already should know just to keep up. Probably another time sink.

Why should I need to go play those other dozen games when GW ALREADY CATERS to ME? <grin> And GW2 will CATER even more with unlimited levels, open pvp areas (maybe I get to gank you a few times if you are brave enough to enter one lol)

By the Six Gods that's the way it is bud. If you can't handle it you can go back to playing your offline rpgs again. GW2 is moving in a new and better direction and NF and GWEN are the leading lights of what is to come. I would expect LOTS more fun and USEFUL titles and PVE only skills. What I probably will not get is unlimited phat loot. But, as long as there is SOME means (like NF/GWEN) of gaining more POWER than the next guy because of the TIME I put in then I will be a happy camper and you'll just have to like it or lump it. <grin> Remember there's no statement or saying that GW2 will be SKILL>TIME. I don't think they will make that mistake twice because we all know that even GW has turned into TIME > SKILL now in many areas of the game. I'm R10 what's your rank sonny boy? hahahahaha

He likes to have bigger e-peen.

In gw, not many people really go for power e-peen, thus when he goes for it, he can easily become better than next guy. Making him feel good about himself.

In real grinder he would actually have to work to keep his e-peen size comparable to next guy, not to mention having it bigger. Leaving GW would be a bit harsh on his ego. There is no way he could enjoy power creep when he is the one far behind other people.

I pretty much agree with this poster. GW is clearly trying to become an asia-style grindfest, and there is no reason to think GW2 wont be designed to be a grindfest from the ground up. We just don't agree on whether this is desirable or not.

And yeah, catering to the demands of farmers and converts from WoW and other grind-based games is most likely the reason for this development.

I've for this reason already decided that I wont be pre-ordering GW2. I don't play for e-peen, never have.

I deem riding wurms till I hit r8/r10 LB/SS and the repetitive faction grind in NF/EOTN as the worst parts of GW ever.

I think you totally misunderstood my idea of having more content or choices so that it does not get that boring, if there is really a need for grinding something.

Next time when you quote part of my text, make sure you do not put it out of context so that it seems that I agree to your horror vision of GW2 becoming more like GWEN. Thank you...^^


@Numa:
Yeah, GW has become the haven for grinders that do not want/can't pay a fee for a game...^^
I almost choke up when I then read Jeff Strain interviews stating things like "We want to do our own thing, we do not want to copy WoW".

Returning to the very basic concepts of grind as a major element of gameplay is a major step backwards. I think people started playing GW because they were hoping for grind-free gameplay and/or non-item or levelgrind based PvP.


Nobody needs a GW2 that follows that stone-old and unfortunately proven formulas (see the success of WoW and EQ before, or Lineage on the Asian market). They are going to abandon their initial customer base, which seems to have changed over time to players coming from the usual grinders that embrace grind and do not share this initial and now probably lost vision.

I just wonder why they do not play already existing games that cater so much more to their needs. *cough*

I wonder too ... if i would play grinder, i would at least want quality one. GWs cant deliver quality grind because it was designed without it in mind (that GOOD THING). In fact, grind in GW1 is pretty lame as your best course of actions is to repeatedly to exactly same area over and over (with unfinished quest of choice being active). normal grinders at least make you change zones every so often.

GW2 wont deliver quality grind either because grinder games require steady flow of new content (raids and dungeons with phatter loot., max level increases with new highlevel areas and new mobs, new max levels of trade skills with new recipes. etc etc...) Arenanet is legendary for not being able to meet schedule and thus having to postpone/cancel major features. If game is about maxing out, you cant afford to leave everyone maxxed out for few months - they would loose interest and go to competition.

As of now, grind-free GW is dead, and if it is all about grind now, we all might as well play real thing (WoW).

I just told you why we don't play those other games that cater to our needs. Scroll up bud. GW is providing that already now with NF and GWEN and even parts of Factions included. I love the faction grind and the PVE only skills grinds and the special Reputation grinds. <grin> Guess you'll just have to stay with GW1 while the rest of us enjoy even more when GW2 comes out. I personally can't wait for the persistant world pvp man I'm gonna gank some people left and right. <grin> I espeically look for the carebears if I can ketchum, especially those ones that QQ like they do in the pvp arenas of GW now. hahaha

Didn't take it out of context at all. I could care less if you agree with the grind or not, fact is GRIND IS IN THE GAME BUD. You're the one that has to contend with it not me. I like it. I love it. I want some more of it. <grin>

See people like you are socialists they want everything an everyone to be EQUALS, that suks and gets boring very fast. Haven't you ever studied why Russia's socialism failed? It just doesn't work. Being able to have goals and reach ABOVE everyone else or at least a LOT of the everyone elses is the AMERICAN way now. It's the way that is marching around the globe as we speak. Demoracy and Freedom and CAPITALISM!! FTW. <grin> To me only those that just don't have enough time (and there are a lot of you of course) don't want to see change in games, that's socialism at its finest as well. You don't want anyone to get higher than you, you don't want your e-peen hurt. lol But, in the real world of gaming it's all about the $$ and the $$ is in CAPITALISM and GRINDING whether you want to accept it or not. Many have come over or come back because now there's actually something to do again to obtain POWER and PRESTIGE in the game beyond stupid VANITY and LOOKS. It's already changed in that direction, it won't stop now as Anet has the figures on who's buying and who's not and who's leaving etc. They see the bright picture of GW2 carebears obviously would not. <grin>

I fear your hopes for World Battles being PKing on the main map will be disappointed. I would actually like that, but it (unfortunately) got abolished already in Ultima Online years ago, because most people did not like it.

You should stop trolling, calling people your buddies and grinning over an over is not going to make a point. Unless you can give a proper reason why you do not play WoW, as it offers so much more if you want to invest a lot of time.

Edit: The second part is great. Good luck gaining power and prestige, either you are serious or you just try to troll with "capitilism" (sp) and other funny comparisons...^^

Well I gotta say: GW>WoW, I played both for 2 years or so.
Prefer GW

I don't care about the grind much and play GW less and less, usually just the weekends, because there is little to play towards. As much as you guys might not agree with Knightfall, he is right about his capitalism. WoW has a huge playerbase built around that capitalism, as players play to get better gear and what not. What kept Diablo 2 alive for eternity? Random item drops, because those items made you better. No level cap is a great start for GW2, even though it is refered to as "grinding", grinding is still playing, and you won't play if there is nothing to acheive.

Age of Conan FTW...Till GW2 comes out.

Thank you Avatar of Virtue for seeing the truth in the matter. I'm not against carebears having their fun and there's plenty of fun in GW really without worrying about what the Hardcore are doing. Afterall I did say these PVE only skills and Titles are NOT REQUIRED of the carebears. It has little to no effect on them other than we who do participate in gaining these skills and titles are just a weeeeeeeee bit better than they are in power and prestige. Thas all, nothing major they still have their e-peen VANITY items they can aquire and we have our achievements and goals to look foward to. Just like WOW.

If there is going to be grind in a game, any game, there needs to be enough variety so that the activity is not shallow. The combat system and other related activities needs to be deep enough and/or enjoyable enough so the repetition is actually desired, or at least not immediately apparent.

Guild Wars set out not to be that type of game. Therefore the combat system, the mobs, the areas and design, level caps all did not support the change in direction to heavy repetition now seen with certain aspects of the PvE game. It has an identity crisis now and some flaws they're looking to address in GW2. The most important thing is that they pick the direction and develop it well.

I enjoy what can be described as "grinding" in some games, because the act of playing the game and doing it is rather fun, the progress for time spent measurable, and the related development of the character rewarding. I also really enjoyed GW in the earlier days, free from titles and grinding the game was simply about playing it, either looking forward to new areas to explore, or the ease with which to max another (or all) professions and experience each moving through the game, possibly also moving into PvP.

We dont really have either system functioning well in GW at present. With the change in paradigm to grinding as the main activity in PvE sans new or deeper content, the game gets hard to play after a while and I keep retiring. Hopefully, if GW2 is going to try and make a deeper PvE play system, they go all out and DO it, or they go back to the roots of the ideas as they were in early GW. One or the other, because right now, I am not at all excited about GW2 when I think about grinding even further through the rather simple game play (PvE-wise, it was a fantastic PvP game always) and shallow character development (that's NOT a knock on GW at all either - I loved this about GW earlier on).

And Master Knightfall, you'd do better to not go out of your way to identify yourself as a troll every third sentence:

That'll change. There are a lot of "things" you can do, but when you preface "things" with "unique" the number changes dramatically.

I quit playing the first time after I got sent back out into the Jungle to kill the same stupid thing over and over for the 5th or 6th time. I quit the second time after just a month after I kept getting sent into the jungle over and over to kill geriatric monkeys...

WoW makes me made because they have so much great infrastructure in that game, but the gameplay itself is the same repetitive crap over and over...

They all are CTB none of them are really any different from that even GW is the same day after day the mobs are in the same place with the same stats in every mission and every zone. You go out to kill the same mobs over and over for ...?? What? What do you get out of doing it in GW that you didn't get out of it in WOW? It's the same damn principles. lol Kill floozies and try to collect something from it although you get a lot better stuff in WoW than you do in GW. GW even has a lousy drop rate of items and then when you get something gold 99% of the time it's a piece of crapola not even good stats. So, tell me why is GW sooooooooooooooo much better than WOW? lol

Because it causes me no pain when I look at it.

i agree i tried the trial of WOW with my friends.and we end up missing guild wars 30 SECONDS later......it might have offer a wide range of interfaces....but however it Gave me headached just by looking at that graphic....Then again.after i have played GUild wars since 2 yrs plus..No other games i tried is better than guild wars..even the grinding part.something makes guild wars stand out.i cant tell..........maybe its the drop rate..its soooo dam hard to get a good drop thats why its so special and rewarding too u can sell them.and ppl are often willing to buy them..cuz its rare..think about it.its worth to grind. GW rules for me...i wouldnt play WOW even if its free

For fun and the challenge. And it's less about "killing the mobs" as it is "clearing the area."

It's not, it's different.

A little side note: I find it interesting that you say "the more GW2 is like WoW the better it'll be" when there have been a large handful of titles copying WoW and failing pretty badly.

That's because these titles are "like WoW, but worse" creations. I don't think a "like WoW, but better" title has been done yet, so there is a good bit of trail left to blaze.

First of all, consider using your enter key to break up long pieces of text. Secondly, consider organizing multiple thoughts into multiple, distinct sentences instead of trying to mingle them together in shared sentences in individual fragments.

If you're going to post using grammar and punctuation like that of a thirteen year old girl on Habbo Hotel, I'm going to assume you are one and I'm going to dismiss you appropriately.

Finally, I don't really care about your opinion on the matter, which is why I didn't address the post to you. You'll have to find someone else to argue with because I don't really care what you choose to play. It really has not bearing on my life.

If you're not going to care about his opinion, why should anyone listen to yours?

Potions in GW? I could imagine that implemented:

Potion of Health: 0e 3s 10s (requires a slot on your skillbar)
Drinking this potion restores you to full health. While you are drinking this potion you are easily interrupted and gain no benefits from weapons or shields.

To be honest, I almost forgot potions even existed. Besides, how can you take the time to chug down a potion in a fight anyhow? Fortunately, this won't happen.

Won't happen? It's already begun. /points to consumables

1: First, stop typing <grin>, it makes your text even more disorganizes that it is.
2: Great, you like grinding. You like wasting 10 hours per day to get some pixels telling you that you are a "Legendary Champion" to boost your ego, cool. However, most GW players, which will be also the majority of GW2 players, have more important thing to do in their life, have better to earn than pixel and they are playing this game just to relax, to change their mind, to break out from the routine. And what it's the point of dumping a routine for another?
Here where your reflexion fails. You can only see your own 12 yearsold kid's ego fulfillment, but cannot see greater schemes. Anet devs can see greater schemes and have created a winner game by finding a "hole" in the MMO market that they have exploited, and they win.

Also, since gw and gw2 wont have a monthly fee, the shorter you play, the more they earn. So if I'm a dev, I will still keep the game low grind, so most people will stop playing a campaign sooner.

3: Now, instead of sleeping in your social science class, listen. The name of the country is the URSS (and is not the same than Russia). Also, it was a communist country, not a socialist country. Most western countries like Canada, Sweden, France, Great Britain, Germany, etc. etc are a mix between socialism and capitalism, at it works very well, same for GW. And if you talk about capitalism, in capitalism there is also the fact that time=money and each seconds wasted is money wasted. So a capitalist will not grind, but will instead power trade, which far more rewarding. And the longer time it take to have access to "high lvl content", the lesser this business will worth the expense.

YOU ARE THE ONE WHO CANNOT ACCEPT CHANGE.

Sorry, but at least I listen at school and I can spot a projection.

You have played WOW like those couple of millions of kids around the world and think that WOW=THE GAME.

Well you fail again. Wow is not the game. It's graphic engine is just a remake of WarIII's engine. It's system is just a gathering of ideas from older MMOs.

Now GW itself is a new breath in the RPG world. And of course you wont like it, because it's not WOW. But you wont return to wow since your parents wont pay it for you. So you're whining around and projecting all your perceptions on other like a child in pre-operational stage.

Because GW is original.

And we are original, not you.

Because GW require one to use ones brain.
We do, not you.

Potion != Consumable

It's actually more accurate to say "Healing Potion != Consumable." As it is now, the consumables are highly similar to those in WoW and other RPGs.

I'd concur with this. A healing potion is about all we're missing. The consumables are similar enough to other potion effects found elsewhere.

OK, I'll have to admit that you all lost me here. I was referring to the original mention of health and mana potions that restore either a percent or all of either (or both). None of the consumables work this way, that's why I'm not making the connection.

I never could fully grasp how someone is supposed to be able to fight with a sword and shield while power-slamming bottles of red juice at the same time and still manage to kill the enemy...

Really? Name them and when they went bankrupt? And they have to be EXACTLY Like WOW no differences. <grin> Since you said they COPIED WOW. Obviosly you just throw hot air into the wind without any documentation just to support your poor pitiful idea that GW is really any different than the rest. Well it's not. You say for FUN and Challenge!? lol Well playing in those others gives the same rewards to those that play them fool. FUN and Challenge! lol once again nothing different about GW and WoW there. GW is the same with less in fact when you look at the whole picture. As I said same ole mobs in the same ole places every single day and dropping the same ole useless no stat increased loot. Unless you GRIND GW like me you probably have a pitiful collection of weapons and 15k armor an all the rest that goes with TIME of playing. SKILL will get you nowhere if you don't have the TIME to invest in the GRIND. <grin>

I do not even want to remember how many potions i had in Diablo II when I went out to kill stuff... xD.

I hate potions. Powerstones makes henching hard mode easier. 1-2 powerstones lets you overcome all obstacles thrown at you, even with henchies.

The Essence of Celerity is 25% running, 25% recharge, 25% attack speed, 30 minutes... oOoo... and you do not need a rez, if you have enough rez paper (tm) with you! :>


Yeah, it has already begun. I hope we do not get health potions in GW2. Not even with a timer. And I wish there will be no consumables.

PvE is lacking challenges, and if there is a problem, swallow a potion/consumable, and it is no longer that frightening.


The Domain of Anguish is one example for the trend. At first people complained about the whole thing being too hard, then it became easier... then came the potions and ursan blessing, and suddenly everyone and his daughter is killing Mallyx...^^


Erm, I got a little sidetracked. GW having NO potions and such stuff was one major incentive for me to buy it.


I still play GW because I prefer it to the level-based everquest-style progress level-/item- quest of WoW. And I hope GW2 stays more like GW1.

I fear MasterKnightfall is right (despite all the silly trolling attempts), many people embrace grind and love it. They are probably not already fed up with this principle, they really like it. Nobody can blame people for their preferences, I just do not share them.



I wonder why GW needs more grind at all.
We pay once, ANet does not need to give us incentives to play on to pay a fee, or keep us busy at all. Regular expansions would bring people back, repetitive grind (riding a wurm till you reach max level is just dull, and we have many more titles like that by now) is more likely to alienate and bore people IMO!

well...you see no1 talking about guild wars in wow community ^^

Which would suggest people are defecting from WoW to GW, not the other way around.

Indeed. My WoW playing friends give a damn about my tender feelings and always tell me what they did in WoW.

They sometimes talk about Age of Conan, but interestingly never about GW. This is not new, GW was never subject of discussion in the official or major WoW fansite forums at all.

Without knowing the actual figures Longsac you can't actually know anymore what the average joe likes about GW than I do. Obviously there's something about it that 5 million copies have been sold. It hasn't been for JUST ONE REASON though that at least is fact. Grind is going to be a part of GW2 as I've said oh so many times. GWEN is a light at the beginning of the tunnel INTO GW2. Grind is no longer "optional" as you can see from the reputation points required to get things in GWEN. I don't see them moving away from that concept into GW2. Afterall Jeff or one of the developers did say that GW2 would ENHANCE GW NOT TOTALLY CHANGE IT.

So everyone can cry me a river and point a finger at me, call me names, I don't really care. I'm just showing what's fact and that there's going to be GRIND for a REASON and that's because everyone doesn't play or enjoy the game like YOU do or the NEXT GUY does an on an on. Their vision now is to cater to a HUGE mass of people not just one type (carebears) or (hardcore), but, as many types as they can. I like grind, I like being more powerful than the next guy, I like prestige and most of all...now LISTEN CAREFULLY SO YOU DON"T MISS IT. I LIKE NOT HAVING TO PAY TO PLAY ONLINE! So now in the future as well as NF and GWEN and parts of Factions I'm going to get what I likes. <grin>

Weak, even for a troll.

You could at least try to be internally consistent. Do you know more about what average joe likes than Longasc, or don't you? Is it fact, or your guesswork? Make your mind up.

You keep using that word; I do not think it means what you think it means.

Not really, it's like gamblers and smokers. They don't really LOVE/LIKE it. They just can't stop it.

As I said, I have play games with lot of grinds, and I didn't really "like" the experience. It was more : ok 2 hours more farming so I can get this armour. Or: ok 5 more lvls and I can have bigger amour. And: ok another 5 lvls and I can get rank 5.

It's not fun, it's an addiction. And a bad addiction, since you gain nothing in return but the need to farm another 5 lvls.

And Blizzard wins. And like every casinos, they pull out some new features to keep you so you can play another 5 months.

Fun, eh?

And of course, a couple of millions of people are having FUN. In fact, they just get baited with some "wow" feature like flying mounts so Bliz can start collecting money. I don't blame Blizzard, but I blame players, since they are responsible of their own actions.
read my previous post.

Your arguments here are not valid until you have answered to it, since I have answer most of these arguments.

It is FACT. 10 million SUBSCRIBERS play WOW. How much more FACT do you need to know the MAJORITY like WOW and what WOW gives as an experience. You're just being a troll and just making up retarded comments and statements to puff up your own e-peen. I'm done attempting to discuss the issue with you any longer. Or really the rest of you carebears. You're all just hard heads from Missouri and when GW2 comes out you'll see who was right and who is left in the dirt. <grin>

Because most people are dumb? (C.F Nietzsche)

Haha... Were we discussing what the majority of WoW players like? Or are you shifting the goalposts?

I still don't think that word means what you think it means.

Nobody did that.

For some reason you suddenly felt the need to insult people, troll, grin, call them bud and whatever. I do not understand what agitated you that much, calm down.