Rit's The following skills can act as protection.
[skill]Weapon of Warding[/skill] 50% block
[skill]Weapon of Remedy[/skill] stealing
[skill]Vengeful Weapon[/skill] stealing
[skill]Weapon of Shadow[/skill] blind
These skill fit quite well in one build.
And then we don't even look at the Protection spirits.
Rit's rock at healing.
Rits better healers than monks?
spirit of defeat
Antithesis
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Originally Posted by spirit of defeat
That may be true but most people prefer the traditional ways, with 2 monks.
resulting a discrimination of Rit's. But a Rit and a (prot) monk can heal a party just fine. Having two slots in an 8-man team doing nothing but pushing red bars is not optimal for PvE, particularly HM. Yes 2 Monks works, but i want my team to actively contribute as much of the time as possible. Half the time a Monk is just standing there scratching its arse while the N/Rt and P are banging out DPS in addition to prot and heals.
The point of the Para + N/Rt is to contribute strongly to both offense and defense, something a Monk outside a couple of dungeons simply can not do. A Monk should be present, but only as the last line of defense.
Therefore, in my view, the Rit makes the better healer because defense is not all it can do.
resulting a discrimination of Rit's. But a Rit and a (prot) monk can heal a party just fine. Having two slots in an 8-man team doing nothing but pushing red bars is not optimal for PvE, particularly HM. Yes 2 Monks works, but i want my team to actively contribute as much of the time as possible. Half the time a Monk is just standing there scratching its arse while the N/Rt and P are banging out DPS in addition to prot and heals.
The point of the Para + N/Rt is to contribute strongly to both offense and defense, something a Monk outside a couple of dungeons simply can not do. A Monk should be present, but only as the last line of defense.
Therefore, in my view, the Rit makes the better healer because defense is not all it can do.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit of defeat
[skill]Weapon of Warding[/skill] 50% block
[skill]Weapon of Remedy[/skill] stealing
[skill]Vengeful Weapon[/skill] stealing
[skill]Weapon of Shadow[/skill] blind
These skill fit quite well in one build.
And then we don't even look at the Protection spirits.
Rit's rock at healing.
And the protection spirits are horrible. Really.
Antithesis
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Originally Posted by Terraban
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Originally Posted by Terraban
More healing means less damage reduction is needed.
At most 3 skill slots should be dedicated to healing on a Monk, take another 2 for spot condition / hex removal, 1 anti-spike prot, 1 team-wide prot and a hard rez and you've got a bar full of situational and inactive skills unless the team is under heavy pressure.
A N/Rt can have two 2 strong direct heals, 2 party heals, 1 unconditional damage buff, 1 direct attack, an AoE damage elite and the game's best battle rez all on the one bar. All skills are being used as often as possible, making better use of those 64 skill slots. A Monk makes red bars go up and provide spot heals, hex / condition removal and anti-spike, but i reckon these skills are better focused on mopping up the damage that slipped through the P + N/Rt net so the Monk doesn't tank its energy. There's always room for one Monk on my team, but i can never justify taking two when the alternatives are so much better these days. Morgoth the dark
LoL, spirit way / henchway
 rt's are better for secondary healing (like n/rt ), monks will be faaar ahead of them becuase divine favor and/or protection prayers. But as i said, rt's are better for secondary proffesion healers. More sinergy and so 
Tyla
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Originally Posted by cgruber
Calling a N/RT healer a sabway isn't really fair since it was in use in HA/GVG for a looong time before. In fact I would wager that's where it originated...
Anyway close to infinite energy and high rit heals is pretty win. Sab already said that it came from Spiritway / Heroway.
Fishmonger
Personally I don't care for N/Rt's because taking all rit skills and playing a different class just because of the primary seems wrong imho (let the flames commence). Paras are awesome, but like rits, few people understand synergy of skills in a build is the best way to keep people alive. Honestly, Resto>Healing Prayers, but Prot can't go into this considering that basically reduces this discussion into "are rits better than monks"
MasterSasori
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Originally Posted by Fishmonger
Honestly, Resto>Healing Prayers, but Prot can't go into this considering that basically reduces this discussion into "are rits better than monks"
Restoration v. Healing Prayers ALONE = maybe
Restoration v. Heal + Prot + Divine = no I think the OP was aiming for a rit v. monk thread despite him only mentioning heal.
Dodo The Extinct
Monks are better.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Fishmonger
Personally I don't care for N/Rt's because taking all rit skills and playing a different class just because of the primary seems wrong imho (let the flames commence)
Trust me Fishmonger -- exploiting Soul Reaping in PvE is /win.
mrmango
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Originally Posted by MasterSasori
Restoration v. Healing Prayers ALONE = maybe
Restoration v. Heal + Prot + Divine = no I think the OP was aiming for a rit v. monk thread despite him only mentioning heal. QFT. I get the feeling the OP was thinking in terms of pure healing, as that's what healing is. The better defense character? Obviously monks, because of prot.
spirit of defeat
MM love Rit's, bring in Life And Recuperation.
isamu kurosawa
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori
Restoration v. Healing Prayers ALONE = maybe
Restoration v. Heal + Prot + Divine = no I think the OP was aiming for a rit v. monk thread despite him only mentioning heal. well of course almost a whole profession is better than one attribute. flettir
Depends more on the person than on the class.
I would rather have an amazing rit healer than a decent monk healer. Some people are just plain better than others. I personally find monks to be better for healing because of versatility in that aspect (protection). I always carry Prot Spirit on my monk, even as a healer. Plus, many rit skills rely on the presence of spirits to be at maximum efficiency, and that means wasted time to lay them down. Plus, like people said, they can be killed. Don't yell at me about the versatility thing...I know rits are versatile too, but in a different way, more of the offense/defense versatility. Seems to me though, that in general, it's easier to be a good monk healer. Easier to learn, just as hard to master. So if I'm confronted by two people I know nothing about, one a monk and one a rit, and I need one of them as a healer, I'd be inclined to take the monk just because there's more chance that he knows what he's doing.
blue.rellik
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Originally Posted by spirit of defeat
MM love Rit's, bring in Life And Recuperation.
That is very very true. Life is so awesome in PvE because it basically heals anything that isn't a enemy, it made missions with NPCs that must be protected much much easier (like Eternal Grove). The huge range of the life gain when the spirit dies is also a boon
Antithesis
I finally started playing my Rit rather than testing out Hero builds. Gotta say, a Channel / Resto hybrid is great fun to play in PvE. A Heal / Prot Monk is boring as batsh*t in comparison.
Ancient Menace
The whole prot vs. heal argument is completely moot. The only thing that we have to compare these two classes on are their healing abilities. To do otherwise would be like comparing healing prayers to fire magic; of course they're different, because they're completely different classes trying to accomplish two very different things.
In the same sense, the only things that are analogous between monks and rits are the resto/healing lines and the smiting/channeling lines. Both of these serve the primary purpose of giving health and causing damage, respectively. Comparing these two categories, ritualists definitely show a strong advantage in pure healing, which has been agreed on by most people in this thread. Also, it would be pretty much impossible for channeling to NOT beat smiting, as nerfed all to hell as it is. The one supreme advantage that monks have over ritualists is the ability to remove hexes. Rits have exactly zero hex removal skills. The bright side? Attuned was Songkai works on monk skills too. Well, hello there, 3 energy remove hex! The other great thing about rits is the ability to dual spec without any problems. A healing monk without points in divine favor suffers a great disadvantage, and likewise for a prot monk. A rit could easily dual spec 9 prot and 12 resto and use it more effectively with any of the energy management skills, even with relatively little investment into spawning. something final for everyone to think about. A rit with 14 in spawning and 12 in healing, using Attuned was and heal party puts out almost twice as much heal as a Light of Deliverance monk with heal at 14 and divine at 12. Tyla
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Originally Posted by Ancient Menace
something final for everyone to think about. A rit with 14 in spawning and 12 in healing, using Attuned was and heal party puts out almost twice as much heal as a Light of Deliverance monk with heal at 14 and divine at 12.
Who uses LoD now?
It's Heal Party / Healers' Boon, now. HB outclasses Rit a bit aswell, in my opinion.
jimmyboveto
I would say rits make a better healer. For hex removal you can always go secondary monk. However, I would say monks are more versatile in the ways they keep their teams alive. They have more options with the prot line and are able to run hybrid builds to boot. Rits, however, are also great at running hybrid builds, but in a different way.
MasterSasori
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Originally Posted by spirit of defeat
MM love Rit's, bring in Life And Recuperation.
But it also renders Shelter and Preservation near useless.
blue.rellik
Why would you bring Shelter and Preservation?
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori
But it also renders Shelter and Preservation near useless.
Which is different how?
Hott Bill
Enchantments = can be stripped
Weapon Spells = cannot be stripped Superior?
Master Ketsu
Only thing rits have on monks is weapon of warding, but beyond thats it's not a good idea to rely on rits as a main. Their abilities are mostly straight heals that lack the utility that monk prot's can do.
C2K
Rits don't have good hex control, which monks do. Sure you can splash it via secondary, but monks don't need to do that. While you have to go Rt/Mo or Rt/Me to deal with hexes, monks can go Mo/E for GoLE or Mo/W for stance prot.
Rits are great supporters though, as their style of healing is can be a passive offense as well.
Dr Strangelove
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Originally Posted by C2K
Rits don't have good hex control, which monks do.
This is actually why I've stopped taking rits in TA. It feels sort of silly going up against an anti-melee necro and a mesmer with nothing but holy veil to keep the entire team clean. Sure, you can toss expel on a rit, but then you're sacrificing an elite. I've never seen a rit that could use holy veil well, it seems to be tough to watch the enemy hexers with all the other stuff they have on their plates. Warmonger's is nice and all, but I'll take a balthazar's pendulum monk or a paragon over it any day of the week.
moko
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hott Bill
Weapon Spells = cannot be stripped Superior? |
Enchants = can be stacked
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Their abilities are mostly straight heals that lack the utility that monk prot's can do.
this is it and nothing more, i don't know why you keep going over this topic. the rawr healing power a rit can supply isn't even that much better anymore now that WoH was buffed a while ago.
MasterSasori
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
Which is different how?
Preservation and Shelter is gonna get massively owned when protecting the minions.
spirit of defeat
if [skill=text]preservation[/skill] would heal the lowest ally it would be a good skill, now it sucks IMO.
It can even "heal" a full health ally
MasterSasori
Quote:
Originally Posted by spirit of defeat
if [skill=text]preservation[/skill] would heal the lowest ally it would be a good skill, now it sucks IMO.
It can even "heal" a full health ally Even if it were the lowest ally, its use will still be questionable. Often the person with the lowest health isn't the one that needs to be healed. Even more so, I'd prefer if preservation stuck more to party members.
spirit of defeat
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterSasori
Even if it were the lowest ally, its use will still be questionable. Often the person with the lowest health isn't the one that needs to be healed. Even more so, I'd prefer if preservation stuck more to party members.
well it would be annoying if it was only healing minions because of the lowest health.
but healing random party members also sucks, combine them, party members only+lowest health. Please A-net, if necessary lower the healing.....
Age
It all depends on how you got your bar set up and who is playing the role.I am on the side of Monk as for Healers Boon.I still use LoD on a few of my templates it only gets used when needed.
I will say this though that Rits are better at healing Sins and Monks are better at healing Warriors up.
JoeKnowMo
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Originally Posted by Age
I will say this though that Rits are better at healing Sins and Monks are better at healing Warriors up.
Care to explain?
MasterSasori
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Originally Posted by spirit of defeat
well it would be annoying if it was only healing minions because of the lowest health.
but healing random party members also sucks, combine them, party members only+lowest health. Please A-net, if necessary lower the healing..... Preservation is at best a mediocre skill. I wouldn't waste my elite slot on this spirit.
spirit of defeat
that's why I suggest these changes.
Age
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKnowMo
Care to explain?
It is hard to put into word but I just feel that Rits are better at healing Sins.
zling
actually carrying an Expel Rit in TA is a pretty good idea. its not like Rits really need their elites to function properly, sort of like Dom Mesmers... the elite is nice and all but you could live without [skill]weapon of remedy[/skill] [skill]offering of spirit[/skill] [skill]caretaker's charge[/skill] etc
you could still be a great Rit hybrid with Ancestor's, Warmonger's, WoW, MbaS, SL, etc and Expel... Rit provides superior support healing+dmg to a smite monk and Expel>Smite Hex...
toastgodsupreme
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Originally Posted by Ancient Menace
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I dunno about your comparison to smiting. Often times I run a triple smite monk team when using heroes, and they destroy anything I lock them onto in a matter of seconds.
Everyone drools over ancestor's and splinter and whatnot, but these require mobs to stay close. In day to day pvp, this isn't happening for me. What I see happen is mobs start close, scatter, melee come in and hit my monks, my monks scatter, rest of team scatters (despite flags), etc.
Not to mention that smiting is not resisted by the majority of pve elements (and in many cases, will do double damage), while channeling is lightning damage, and gets reduced by armor.
I feel smiting is superior in just about every way. Sure, a channeling rit can drop a decent spike, I've played the channeling bomber in pvp, it's fun. But for regular pve, smiting wins. It's single target based with a small aoe on SoJ which is great.
My hero builds are:
[signet of judgment][bane signet][spear of light][banish][ancestor's rage][splinter weapon][smite condition][smite hex]
[signet of judgment][bane signet][castigation signet][spear of light][reversal of damage][judge's insight][mantra of inscriptions][smite hex]
[signet of judgment][bane signet][castigation signet][leech signet][spear of light][mantra of inscriptions][smite condition][smite hex]
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That's crap. BoonProt has been nerfed to hell. Not to mention Rits are ftw.|
Originally Posted by Ancient Menace
The other great thing about rits is the ability to dual spec without any problems. A healing monk without points in divine favor suffers a great disadvantage, and likewise for a prot monk. A rit could easily dual spec 9 prot and 12 resto and use it more effectively with any of the energy management skills, even with relatively little investment into spawning.
And here's my problem with rits. Here's what I think people are trying to say...
There's no point in playing a Rit Primary. Ooooh, so you get the +1 from the headpiece and some runes. Still doesn't make it worth it. Spawning is a joke. If your spirit gets attacked, it's really not going to help that it has 50% more hp. It's a level 9 spirit. It's toast if someone is intent on taking it out. Often times in pve, spirits are prime targets being that their low levels seem to increase the mob's desire to want to kill it. I'd rather have a necro/rit healer so he has obscene amounts of energy to heal with. Or an ele/rit, again, for the obscene energy. Ranger/rits perform just as well as rit/rangers in the splinter/barrage dept. the damage bump from 12 to 16 channeling isn't impressive enough to make me go "ok, ok, time to make a pve rit and level it up for some end game killing". The rit's primary attribute needs to be fixed. Right now, it's a dump stat. And that makes me sad. I've had two level 20 rits (still have them actually, they're storage chars). And really, I'd never take a Rit primary in a team. This isn't me being noobish, I'm just saying that unless it was a guildie or our team was so well built that the last person we added didn't matter, there are PLENTY of other options for me to add to the party aside from a Rit primary. Some of the rit skills are fun. That's why I even tried to make another Rit and do it again. But they work better as a secondary than a primary.
horseradish
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Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme
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Pure heal monks are epic fail. Rits at least have Vengeful Weapon, Weapon of Shadow, and Weapon of Warding in the same attribute, not to mention PwK, which is, hands down, the best party heal in the game.
HB is an Elite skill, which is kind of a big deal for Monks. Rits don't need an elite skill to be pretty damn effective. Offering of Spirit is often used (since Spawning Power is not necessary at all. Oh! The advantage of having a crappy Primary!) and is excellent energy management.
Quote: But heal monks never go PURE healing. Divine favor is there backing them up. Spawning isn't really helping a resto rit at all. Because of Spawning being weak, Rits are allowed to spec into only two attribute lines and still be godly. I agree with you that Spawning doesn't help, but Resto doesn't need the help.
Quote: I dunno about your comparison to smiting. Often times I run a triple smite monk team when using heroes, and they destroy anything I lock them onto in a matter of seconds. Running three offensive heroes of any kind will kill things in seconds...because it's PvE. I don't see your point.
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Everyone drools over ancestor's and splinter and whatnot, but these require mobs to stay close. In day to day pvp, this isn't happening for me. What I see happen is mobs start close, scatter, melee come in and hit my monks, my monks scatter, rest of team scatters (despite flags), etc.
O RLY? When I cast Splinter and AR on the warrior, i see mobs get wtfpwned. Maybe you're doing it wrong? Ancestors' is still powerful against one target. Yes Splinter needs adjacent foes, but that's why you don't mindlessly spam it. Quote:
Ummm, use splinter when mob is close and not when they're far apart? Use splinter at the right time, especially when a member is getting ganked by more than 1 melee opponent.
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Quote: Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme I feel smiting is superior in just about every way. Sure, a channeling rit can drop a decent spike, I've played the channeling bomber in pvp, it's fun. But for regular pve, smiting wins. It's single target based with a small aoe on SoJ which is great. Channel bomb rits are incredibly predictable and are a terrible choice when PvPing with rits. Once again if you're going smiting for monks in PvE, you're competing against characters that will do what you do except far far far better.
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And here's my problem with rits. Here's what I think people are trying to say...
There's no point in playing a Rit Primary. Ooooh, so you get the +1 from the headpiece and some runes. Still doesn't make it worth it. Name a character or give a build that can give the support a rit does.
There's no point in playing a Rit Primary. Ooooh, so you get the +1 from the headpiece and some runes. Still doesn't make it worth it. Name a character or give a build that can give the support a rit does.
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Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme
Often times in pve, spirits are prime targets being that their low levels seem to increase the mob's desire to want to kill it.
Many spirits have a large range of effect and you should cast it out of the way's harm which is an incredibly easy thing to do thanks to its range. At times, the death of the spirit is actually favorable eg. Life. Quote:
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