Dont blame the game, some people are just not good at playing GW but like to do so anyway.
Its not the game that's not reading wiki, guru or hold the mouse/keyboard.
I blame prophecies for noob builds
Miska Bow
Pleikki
Wtf i love play like that im buying new proph account during next week and ill make char with that acc that i dont use anything i dont faind or get from collectors :P (i only buy tyria cause i like it so much)
jonnieboi05
hmm... the worst "noobiest" thing i did when i first started was running a ranger with healing sig O.0 but meh... only 1 skill that shouldn't be there so it was all good. GW was actually 'fun' back then as well, imo. ^^
anyways, back in the day when factions JUST released, i created a build that was quite good while it was un-nerfed that involved mending (w00t!!) that i used for quite some time (w00t!!) so yea.. without further ado... here it is!!
I R WUZ TEH 1337 W4MM0!! RAWR!!
edit: i believe these were the exact attribute points that i used. i remade this build off the top of my head, but i am 99.9% sure this was the exact point set-up.
anyways, back in the day when factions JUST released, i created a build that was quite good while it was un-nerfed that involved mending (w00t!!) that i used for quite some time (w00t!!) so yea.. without further ado... here it is!!
I R WUZ TEH 1337 W4MM0!! RAWR!!
edit: i believe these were the exact attribute points that i used. i remade this build off the top of my head, but i am 99.9% sure this was the exact point set-up.
black7hought
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Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05
hmm... the worst "noobiest" thing i did when i first started was running a ranger with healing sig O.0 but meh... only 1 skill that shouldn't be there so it was all good. GW was actually 'fun' back then as well, imo. ^^
anyways, back in the day when factions JUST released, i created a build that was quite good while it was un-nerfed that involved mending (w00t!!) that i used for quite some time (w00t!!) so yea.. without further ado... here it is!! I R WUZ TEH 1337 W4MM0!! RAWR!! edit: i believe these were the exact attribute points that i used. i remade this build off the top of my head, but i am 99.9% sure this was the exact point set-up. |
Whats up with everyone hating W/Mo that use mending? Is it the fact that they are harder to kill unless you can strip the enchanment?
DJCoastal
yay a build with mending in it = 1337ness... xD
jonnieboi05
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Originally Posted by black7hought
I like it, seems simple and effective.
Whats up with everyone hating W/Mo that use mending? Is it the fact that they are harder to kill unless you can strip the enchanment? |
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by Pleikki
Wtf i love play like that im buying new proph account during next week and ill make char with that acc that i dont use anything i dont faind or get from collectors :P (i only buy tyria cause i like it so much)
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Dr Strangelove
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Originally Posted by black7hought
I like it, seems simple and effective.
Whats up with everyone hating W/Mo that use mending? Is it the fact that they are harder to kill unless you can strip the enchanment? |
Fun with math: A WoH heals for around 200 hp in 3/4 second for 5 energy. Mending will heal for 200 hp in 33 seconds for 11 energy (not counting the initial cost).
However, the build posted is bad because it lacks an IAS, not directly because of mending (although it doesn't help).
Age
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Originally Posted by Sol Deathgard
Considering the bulk of prophocies players would do this -
Make new char, get mes 2ndary, leave presearing Pay for run to beakons pearch Pay for run to Droks Pay for run to sactum cay Pay for run to all desert missons Pay for run in all desert missions spend 2hrs trying to figure out how to beat the dopple with presearing skills then Pay for run to War camp or ToA to farm SF, FoW, or UW & in factions you had to choose what skills you where going to buy, & had to play the game to beat it, (which to many people here means the game sucks cause you have to play it instead of paying someone else to play it for you) I'd say people that have Factions, or NF and can beat them are better players since to do most of the things people wanna do you have to beat the game, unlike prophocies. |
I would say that most played the game properly like the other person who quoted you said how could they when they didn't have enough gold and there were hardly any bots or none back then.
Redfeather1975
My first character was a Proph Me/Mo and there wasn't much skill choices at the beginning. I wanted to use my secondary, but I ended up having to make some really sub par bars with what I had back then.
bam23
My first char was a mo/n. I was supposed to be raising thousands of minions and keeping them up with my healing.
Then I found out about Blood of the Master and pre-nerf Verata's Sacrifice.
Then I was a monk with Blood of the Master and pre-nerf Varata's Sacrifice.
Good times.
Then I found out about Blood of the Master and pre-nerf Verata's Sacrifice.
Then I was a monk with Blood of the Master and pre-nerf Varata's Sacrifice.
Good times.
Proff
Skill bars change with how much we know about the game, they change with nerfs/buffs, they changed when new professions were added to the game and they change to match the threat in elite areas (util ursan was introdused anyway). So simply put you can't blame it on a time or chapter in guild wars, the reason there are idiots out there that have beaten the game and are still running a half ele half ranger build without an elite or skills that compliment eachother is beacuse they don't know any better and refuse to accept critisizm when it's given. People just have to understand that some people out there have been around longer and know what works and what doesn't.
It all depends on the person playing and if they want to understad how to play or if they want to spam all day in alliance chat "need help with mission".
It all depends on the person playing and if they want to understad how to play or if they want to spam all day in alliance chat "need help with mission".
upier
Ahh the good times!
When PvE players still understood that having fun was far more important then having the best skills EVAH on ones skillbar because the end effect is the same - stuff will spontaneously combust either way.
May that be with Flare or with DS fuelling SY.
I pity us ...
It really sucks getting better at this game ...
When PvE players still understood that having fun was far more important then having the best skills EVAH on ones skillbar because the end effect is the same - stuff will spontaneously combust either way.
May that be with Flare or with DS fuelling SY.
I pity us ...
It really sucks getting better at this game ...
Master Knightfall
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Originally Posted by African War Lord
Just the way it's structured with the skill quests and secondary professions. You think at first these are good skills your getting from quests. why else would we be getting them? and your all excited. hell I had conjure phantasm on my ranger for a long time lol.. admit it you did too!!
I remember doing a mission, noticing we were killing soooo slow.. and asked for some build pings. I was frightened by what I saw but you can't blame them, the game showed them the way lol. It would have been better if the secondary skills you got better fit your class, like a warrior/ele would get shock, but a ranger/ele doing the same quest would get conjure. That would take a lot of rewriting but till then. The warrior MM's and monks with backfire shall always grace our presence. smiling, waving... |
I've run with some players who we all decided that no attribute could go above 9 and it's a lot more fun and challenging playing with those rules and restrictions than just plowing through mob after mob with maxed out attributes of 16 with skills that can make them goto 20.
Yessir some people are just nothing more than powergamers and think EVERYone in the world should play JUST LIKE THEM and their COOKIE CUTTER builds even THEY got off the Internet. Really a shame people can't learn to accept other people builds as they are, learn to play with others that are different than they are and just get along. Afterall life doesn't depend on GW, you don't lose a thing if you play for FUN instead of worrying if your precious time is wasted cause you didn't get to yet another silly skinned item that is no better than a collectors item.
Tosha
I had to monk a team in the Ring of Fire in the beginning (with my R/Mo), because we could not find a decent second monk, and I was the only player with monk as secondary.
Good times ^^ I hope GW2 will have the same noobie attitude in the beginning
Good times ^^ I hope GW2 will have the same noobie attitude in the beginning
Hell Raiser
I remember when I first started (Mid-May '05), I made a Necro (most recent game I had been playing was D2, really liked the nec in that game). I remember maxing out fire magic and using all fire magic skills 
. I remember doing it through the desert, and the Ring of Fire islands. I didn't know any better, and I guess the game was still pretty new, 'cause no one corrected me (probably would have helped, if they had). I didn't even think of the possibility of starting a primary Ele.
You can't blame new players, even if it does get frustrating. I do think you should correct them (kindly), even if they don't listen. Like the other day in RA I grouped with a War who was spirit spamming. I asked him why he was casting spirits, and he said "dude it totally owns". I tried to tell him it was better to just go Rit primary, but he wouldn't listen, so I gave up and healed his butt anyway
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. I remember doing it through the desert, and the Ring of Fire islands. I didn't know any better, and I guess the game was still pretty new, 'cause no one corrected me (probably would have helped, if they had). I didn't even think of the possibility of starting a primary Ele. You can't blame new players, even if it does get frustrating. I do think you should correct them (kindly), even if they don't listen. Like the other day in RA I grouped with a War who was spirit spamming. I asked him why he was casting spirits, and he said "dude it totally owns". I tried to tell him it was better to just go Rit primary, but he wouldn't listen, so I gave up and healed his butt anyway
.
Grasping Darkness
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Originally Posted by N E D M
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Originally Posted by I MP I
I find that no matter the chapter, there will always be a ton of people that suck at this game. In general, I blame the players.
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
I'd say the Waffle House down the street created a lot of bad players. I find my hallway closet has the best overall players.
See? I can make statements without any factual basis as well. |
African War Lord, I blame you if they change pre searing ascalon skills. If people can't evolve then leave them to the dogs.
Tijger
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Originally Posted by Tosha
I had to monk a team in the Ring of Fire in the beginning (with my R/Mo), because we could not find a decent second monk, and I was the only player with monk as secondary.
Good times ^^ I hope GW2 will have the same noobie attitude in the beginning |
~ Dan ~
I can see what you're saying and agree to a certain extent. I mean, giving a lvl5 warrior frenzy and heal signet? Is that even wise?
But still, noob builds only stay that way because people refuse to learn.
But still, noob builds only stay that way because people refuse to learn.
Stormlord Alex
PvE is to blame for 'n00b' builds - essentially, it's easy enough that it's possible to beat with a really sub-par build; the game at no point forces the player to get better.
Why should Johnny Wammo or Scrub Ranger stop using Mending, Firestorm or Conjure Phantasm if they continue to win at PvE with them? Oftentimes, they couldn't care less about finding the best way to do things, if it works and they beat the bad dudes and get the phat lewts, they're happy.
And for reference, here is a few of my own builds from way back then, that I beat later missions with
[skill]battle rage[/skill][skill]sever artery[/skill][skill]gash[/skill][skill]galrath slash[/skill][skill]final thrust[/skill][skill]purge signet[/skill][skill]succor[/skill][skill]rebirth[/skill]
[skill]lightning strike[/skill][skill]enervating charge[/skill][skill]chain lightning[/skill][skill]lightning orb[/skill][skill]windborne speed[/skill][skill]troll unguent[/skill][skill]air attunement[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
[skill]punishing shot[/skill][skill]hunter's shot[/skill][skill]distracting shot[/skill][skill]favorable winds[/skill][skill]throw dirt[/skill][skill]kindle arrows[/skill][skill]troll unguent[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
Why should Johnny Wammo or Scrub Ranger stop using Mending, Firestorm or Conjure Phantasm if they continue to win at PvE with them? Oftentimes, they couldn't care less about finding the best way to do things, if it works and they beat the bad dudes and get the phat lewts, they're happy.
And for reference, here is a few of my own builds from way back then, that I beat later missions with
[skill]battle rage[/skill][skill]sever artery[/skill][skill]gash[/skill][skill]galrath slash[/skill][skill]final thrust[/skill][skill]purge signet[/skill][skill]succor[/skill][skill]rebirth[/skill]
[skill]lightning strike[/skill][skill]enervating charge[/skill][skill]chain lightning[/skill][skill]lightning orb[/skill][skill]windborne speed[/skill][skill]troll unguent[/skill][skill]air attunement[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
[skill]punishing shot[/skill][skill]hunter's shot[/skill][skill]distracting shot[/skill][skill]favorable winds[/skill][skill]throw dirt[/skill][skill]kindle arrows[/skill][skill]troll unguent[/skill][skill]resurrection signet[/skill]
arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
I can see what you're saying and agree to a certain extent. I mean, giving a lvl5 warrior frenzy and heal signet? Is that even wise?
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Hell, I'm almost inclined to say the opposite of the OP. Once you made it through Prophecies, you pretty much knew what you were doing.
jammerpa
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Originally Posted by Eldin
they didn't care if they had 3 mesmers in their party, they just enjoyed the game.
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12 chars
JR
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Originally Posted by Ekelon
I'll be perfeclty honest. I never had conjure phantasm on my ranger. I have never done stuff like that. (no flare on my ranger either)
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JONO51
Back when I started, I made a R/A (started playing GW at factions release) and played in AB with a R/A with pet, trap and dagger attacks, using non max white daggers ofcourse. And yes, I did kill stuff, which makes me worry about what other people were running.
zwei2stein
actually, putting together workable build with bad skill availability is mark of good player. And its not really that hard.
By time you leave ascalon you have enough skills to run okay build.
If anything, free quest skills made is really easy to switch build along the way without additional expenses. I dont think that factions/nf newbie is better on with skills as he lacks base of those free skills upon which he can build by buying the ones he misses. Compared to having to designs bar from practically zero in nf/factions and now freebie skills every so often which make you reconsider your build.
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Btw arcane: Frenzy and Healsig given as early game skills is pretty bad.
People new to GW would see them as starter skills: sucky skills given to newbies to use in lowbie lands. Skills that you are supposed to stop using once you reach Level X. Given that those skills have pretty easily seen penalties encourages that mindset.
By time you leave ascalon you have enough skills to run okay build.
If anything, free quest skills made is really easy to switch build along the way without additional expenses. I dont think that factions/nf newbie is better on with skills as he lacks base of those free skills upon which he can build by buying the ones he misses. Compared to having to designs bar from practically zero in nf/factions and now freebie skills every so often which make you reconsider your build.
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Btw arcane: Frenzy and Healsig given as early game skills is pretty bad.
People new to GW would see them as starter skills: sucky skills given to newbies to use in lowbie lands. Skills that you are supposed to stop using once you reach Level X. Given that those skills have pretty easily seen penalties encourages that mindset.
Sub Frost
Prophecies is to blame? Never underestimate the power of human stupidity.
quickmonty
I blame noobs for noob builds.
arcanemacabre
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Btw arcane: Frenzy and Healsig given as early game skills is pretty bad.
People new to GW would see them as starter skills: sucky skills given to newbies to use in lowbie lands. Skills that you are supposed to stop using once you reach Level X. Given that those skills have pretty easily seen penalties encourages that mindset. |
jackers1234
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Originally Posted by quickmonty
I blame noobs for noob builds.
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im a core monk for a top 200 gvg guild, and i have r10 hero, but even i remember my first char.. mo/me, with smites, ether feast and backfire and 1 or 2 heals, way back in the day. It was fun.
N1ghtstalker
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Originally Posted by quickmonty
I blame noobs for noob builds.
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it's the player that makes the builds, not the game
Tosha
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Originally Posted by jackers1234
thats quite an obnoxious statement there. so you are saying that you never once ran random skills just thrown together, just cos you could?
im a core monk for a top 200 gvg guild, and i have r10 hero, but even i remember my first char.. mo/me, with smites, ether feast and backfire and 1 or 2 heals, way back in the day. It was fun. |
)Point is: Okay, you got some new players who dont know better, but most are willing to learn if you tell them what they are doing wrong (and if not, I chuckle about it and move on). However, I think it is a shame that you cannot do random stuff anymore as an experienced player without getting flamed.
Darkobra
I remember flare spamming when I first made my elementalist. I felt I had to keep the DPS going to help the team, even if I used every last drop of energy.
Then I discovered Mark of Rodgort and a max damage fire staff...
Then I discovered Mark of Rodgort and a max damage fire staff...
kooomar
I blame the pre-set bars we could chose from back in the day, the only good one was the MoR monk, everything else was utter garbage in terms of how good they were. Anet wanted us to have FUN builds, not good ones. For example, how badass has a hamstorm warrior sound? But for practicality issues... Lol
Sirkl
I missing being able to run my war with a hammer, without being afraid of being spiked down with 2 skills :/
black7hought
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Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove
It's using a crapload of energy for a relatively small heal over a very long period of time. It's vastly more energy-efficient to run stuff like WoH on a monk. Also, 6 health per second isn't going to save your life if something really decides to beat you up.
Fun with math: A WoH heals for around 200 hp in 3/4 second for 5 energy. Mending will heal for 200 hp in 33 seconds for 11 energy (not counting the initial cost). However, the build posted is bad because it lacks an IAS, not directly because of mending (although it doesn't help). |
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by Sirkl
I missing being able to run my war with a hammer, without being afraid of being spiked down with 2 skills :/
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Only difference is that back then, Hammer warriors were W/E with armor of earth and aftershock. "KD/AS". That 40 armor made all the difference.
Sirkl
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Actually, you were being able to get spiked by two skills back then.
Only difference is that back then, Hammer warriors were W/E with armor of earth and aftershock. "KD/AS". That 40 armor made all the difference. |
Numa Pompilius
Ctb
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| Whats up with everyone hating W/Mo that use mending? Is it the fact that they are harder to kill unless you can strip the enchanment? |
+3 health regen < 1/2 damage stances
Warriors should focus on mitigating the damage they take upfront to remove some of the pressure from the HEALER who should do the actual repair work.
Another problem was that the goobers would use Mending on a skill bar stacked with energy skills instead of adrenal skills. Constantly having 0 energy and not being able to pull off your combos is an even greater epic fail.
Yea, mending can "work" on a warrior, but reducing your damage outright works an awful lot better.
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by Ctb
One major problem was that boneheads would toss that on every time they went out, gleefully ignoring enchant stripping and shattering MOBs or ignoring the fact that they could have brought a +armor stance that would have outright halved damage (or, in the days of armor stacking, better than halved). Jumping into an area full of fire-damage MOBs with Mending instead of a +armor versus fire stance is an epic failure.
+3 health regen < 1/2 damage stances Warriors should focus on mitigating the damage they take upfront to remove some of the pressure from the HEALER who should do the actual repair work. Another problem was that the goobers would use Mending on a skill bar stacked with energy skills instead of adrenal skills. Constantly having 0 energy and not being able to pull off your combos is an even greater epic fail. Yea, mending can "work" on a warrior, but reducing your damage outright works an awful lot better. |
Mending heals for 6 HP/s, making it 18 hp per energy ... so far its quite good. It leaves most heal far back with heal per energy efficiency. Especially if you cosnider its only 8 points in att line spent.
However, it is equal to having 5 energy heal which heals for 90 hp with freaking 45 second recharge.
If you ever saw healing skill with that kind of stats, you would never, ever touch it. And its actually worse than i painted as it overheals a lot and has 10e upfront cost.