Why is normal mode hard? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

arcanemacabre

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Feb 2006

North Kryta Province

Angel Sharks [As]

18 Mar 2008 at 06:09 - 161

Quote:

Originally Posted by maraxusofk

dude i coudltn disagree more. we should make the game easier for ppl lazy. while we are at it, lets make basketball accessible by people not coordinated! lets remove that silly small rim, add in a 1 yard wide one, and lower it so ppl who are 5 ft tall can dunk! and for any competition, we hand out gold medals to everyone like the special olympics so we can all feel like winners!

Oh yeah, sounds good to me! While we're at it, let's make video games a professional sport, so any geeky gamer can feel like an athlete!

cloudbunny

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2006

DVD Forums (DVDF)

18 Mar 2008 at 07:22 - 162

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

Oh yeah, sounds good to me! While we're at it, let's make video games a professional sport, so any geeky gamer can feel like an athlete!

Nice one, arcanemacabre, really made me laugh!

I can't help wonder why so many keep complaining that GW is no real challenge. Why not instead move on to a much harder game? There must be something really challenging out there some place?

Either that, or cripple yourself. Take only 3 non-elite skills, starter armour or only use dropped items. If you want a challenge there are many ways to get yourself one. You can always try highend pvp, I guess.

If you can't come up with something that gives you a challenge I guess you are just lazy, and wants everything served to you?

Sorry, some posts just made me loose patience.

edit:
In all fairness we have at least 3 modes now:

Normal mode: Starting out in one single chapter, no help from overpowered friends, no previouos knowledge. I guess HM stuff done with experienced characters goes in this category also.

Hard Mode: New character in hard mode (Eastern frontier HM is a bit challenging for a character that only been once through Prophecy and is henching it :-)

Easy Mode: Most things involving NM, maxed out heroes, pve skills, all chapters etc. (pity it is exclusive for seasoned players)

Regards,
Cloudbunny

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

18 Mar 2008 at 09:13 - 163

This thread exemplifies best the HUGE GAP between the various sides of the GW community.

At one end, casual/easy gamers, who may or may not be lazy, but don't have the time to learn the complexities of the game but just want fun without too much hassle.

At the other end, pro power sellers and runners, extreme vanquishers (they vanquish with a blind on their face

) and other pro-gamers who can beat Mallyx and Duncan with one hand (sorry guys, I'm not disrespectful, just adding some humour).

And in the middle, there's Anet, torn apart by these two extremes, and shifting all the time between the beginners' and hell's modes. I guess both "sides" can also bring financial benefits, as casual/easy gamers have numbers while pro-gamers are ready to invest a lot of money.

The funniest of this funny story is that both "sides" point fingers at the moon, but they only see the tip of the finger of the other side, not the moon! So pro-gamers complain about casual/easy gamers not being pro, and casual/easy gamers complain about the game difficulty. This looks like a political debate where no one is listening to the other side!

The solution is pretty simple: the casual/easy gamers MUST learn when the opportunity arises, the pro-gamers MUST teach better their know-how.

(now I should wake up to the reality)

Ju-On

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

House Of Zen

R/

18 Mar 2008 at 10:09 - 164

"The solution is pretty simple: the casual/easy gamers MUST learn when the opportunity arises, the pro-gamers MUST teach better their know-how."

I think if you had the time to read this thread from start to finish you will see that experienced players made an effort to help me out and give some really good advice, which I gratefully took on board and used to good effect. Its just hard to see those post amongst all the trolls and off-topics arguments that are also part of this thread. You don't have to wake up, it is a reality! Thankfully there are "pro-gamers" who are willing to take 2 minutes to help a casual player like myself out. That means alot to me, and hopefully one day I'll be able to return the favour when I have alittle bit (should read alot :P) more experience under my belt. Its very easy to take a condescending approach to cry's of help from casual/new players in gaming forums such as these, and troll/flame or simply state how easy it is. For me, the only real 'pro-gamers' in this thread are the one's who actually gave great advice.

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

18 Mar 2008 at 10:14 - 165

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ju-On

Its very easy to taje a condescending approach to cry's of help

For the nth time, you weren't crying for help. You were asking for the game to be made easier for you. If you had asked for help, condescension would have been uncalled for; you didn't, and deserved every bit of derision you got. Take it as a lesson learned and move on.

Ju-On

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2008

House Of Zen

R/

18 Mar 2008 at 10:19 - 166

Lrn2read. Which part of that sentence do I refer to my original post? It is a generalisation. Do you know what that is or don't they teach you comprehension in troll school? I was simply trying to establish the difference between trolls ie: you, and pro-gamers.

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

18 Mar 2008 at 10:20 - 167

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ju-On

Lrn2read.

Congratulations! You have lost the last sliver of respect I might ever have had for you.

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

18 Mar 2008 at 10:28 - 168

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandHermet

Its like this. the hardcore players ask over and over for harder areas and something else to do that takes a couple of hours, but the casual player QQs about not being able to go to these areas, so Anet caves into the casual players demand and makes it so they can do these areas. same with hard mode and the PVE skills.

the thing you should ask is can we get some ultra hard things to do for us hardcore players and keep them away from all the casual players no matter how much they QQ about it? Anet is turning the game into a game for casual players.

You know what is weirdest?

In GW it takes about half days work to perfectly spec for any "elite" area even if you missed everything you needed for it and that effort can be spread over in 30 minute sessions (not counting titles, only pvp-valid options). And any "Elite" are can be comfortably completed in two hours and sped through in one hour.

As far as casual players go, elite areas were always super accessible. Difficult, yes, but doable with coordinated scrub group as even tankway groups would progress in reasonable pace.

They were able to go there, always. But they chose not to adapt to that areas, so they prevented themselves from succeeding.

Ghost Of Sir Craig

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2008

19 Mar 2008 at 21:14 - 169

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

Congratulations! You have lost the last sliver of respect I might ever have had for you.

Pffft. (Did I spell that right?)

Sirius-NZ

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

Bellevue, WA (I know ... but I moved out of NZ)

Xen of Onslaught

D/

19 Mar 2008 at 22:46 - 170

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

Congratulations! You have lost the last sliver of respect I might ever have had for you.

He/she probably doesn't even care, you know.

Chill folks... measuring up isn't going to solve anything.

reetkever

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mo/E

19 Mar 2008 at 23:02 - 171

Realm of Torment can be really hard to unexpecting travelers.

Be sure you have stuff like Wild Blow to counter the Lightning Reflexes (Wild Blow does wonders throughout whole Elona, really) and be sure to have a nice damage skill ready for when they use Call to Torment (They take double damage when attempting to clone, so you can quickly kill them when doing it right).

Also, be VERY sure not to lure more than 1 group. Especially when you and your heroes/henchies have alot of AoE spells, more monsters will attempt to duplicate at the same time. Try to focus all of your firepower on 1 monster and you'll do fine, good luck!

(BTW, a high Lightbringer rank also does wonders. Don't forget Lightbringer's Gaze, either.)

Leviathon

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Apr 2008

BAD - Bass Ale Drinkers

E/Me

23 Apr 2008 at 17:54 - 172

GW IS TOO HARD IN NORMAL MODE

The above is a true statement. Many of you will ridicule it or disagree with it.

I know many of my middle aged friends will agree.

As 45 year old gamer, (when you had to pay to play pong !), the game needs an EASY mode.

NO, I don't have 24 hrs of available time to invest in this game and "learn" all the in's and out's

NO, I don't want to join a Guild of 12 year olds (or even 20 year olds for that matter !) to play the game.

NO, I don't want to play the same mission OVER AND OVER AND OVER .... until I have a stroke.

YES, I want to get through the game with relative easy. (its an age thing)

YES, I don't mind if LvL 20 enemy sages drop dead on my mere presence next to them

YES, I stop frequntly to admire the beautyful scenery and graphics.

YES, I hate freaking timmers on certain missions.

ARENANET, .... MAKE THE NEXT GW WITH AN EASY MODE !!!

HINT: Watch the Staples commercial !

Mocisme

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2008

Shopping around for a new guild

R/

23 Apr 2008 at 18:11 - 173

first time i got to relm of torment, yes, it was hearder than everything in elona before that, but isnt this the point of most any game? for it to get harder as you progress.
That being said, in normal mode, it's a matter of pulling, calling targets, and choosing effective builds. these of course, are not somthing only "hard core gamers" learen, but somthing everyone should have picked up throughout the way. Unfortuantly with all the power leveling, ursan, getting run, i notice more and more players who dont comprehend simple tactics such as the above.
Not saying that the above applies, but really, a casual player should be able to get past relm of torment with hnh after a few tries and tweeks to thier team.
also.. you have resources. guru, 2 wiki's, pvx. use em iif need be

Esan

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2007

Wars

23 Apr 2008 at 18:16 - 174

do not feed the trolls

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

23 Apr 2008 at 18:18 - 175

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esan

do not feed the trolls

'I want my /rank emote to be able to kill other players please'

If Easy mode is implemented, /rank smite should too.

Navaros

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2005

Mo/Me

23 Apr 2008 at 18:19 - 176

The OP is incorrect.

Normal mode in any GW game is not the least bit hard. Every NM mode area in any GW game, including ROT, is extremely easy.

Steboy93

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Feb 2007

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] | Ex-Officer [TAM]

W/

23 Apr 2008 at 18:21 - 177

If nm is hard, then you are, in fact, doing it wrong.

Mocisme

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2008

Shopping around for a new guild

R/

23 Apr 2008 at 18:21 - 178

[QUOTE=Yang Whirlwind]Maybe they should make a "beginner mode" for people just starting! QUOTE]

Unless im mistaken, i thought thats what the tutorial and noob island are for.

And yes, they have made normal mode easier already since the introduction of Hard Mode.

Serenitysong

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2008

Clandestiny of Solitude [LaZy]

E/

23 Apr 2008 at 18:35 - 179

RoT can be a bit tricky when you first encounter it but there are a number of things you can do to make the area much easier. Here is a checklist of various things that I do when encountering a new and difficult challenge (some of these have all ready been mentioned but I thought I would pull them all together in one list).
1. Research the quest on Wiki
2. Research builds for myself and my heros, Pvxwiki and the build section here
3. When in the RoT, watch the patrols and get a general idea of their pattern
4. Flag your heros back and use a longbow/flatbow to pull individual groups to your party
5. Call target to focus your heros/henchman, kill one monster at a time
6. I recommend taking out the Rain of Terrors first
Good luck and don't give up!

thor hammerbane

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dark Side of the Moon

Fat Kids Are Hard To Kid[nap]

23 Apr 2008 at 18:39 - 180

Realm of Torment is annoying, not hard :/

If your finding it hard to play casually, you should read some of the profession guides on this forum for effective builds.

(Not, I'm not talking about sabway)

Zsig

Academy Page

Join Date: Jun 2007

23 Apr 2008 at 18:44 - 181

Casual gamers might not have enough time to unlock skills from other professions or knowledge of other professions' skills and builds enough for Heroes to be useful for them.

AJD

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

ME

W/

23 Apr 2008 at 19:08 - 182

I know the first time I stepped out of the gate of torment into Nightfallen Jahai I got swamped by tons of mobs, turns out I had a master difficulty quest activated causing it. Doh!

The key to the areas in torment is to not over agro

Arduin

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

Limburgse Jagers [LJ]

R/

23 Apr 2008 at 20:38 - 183

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zsig

Casual gamers might not have enough time to unlock skills from other professions or knowledge of other professions' skills and builds enough for Heroes to be useful for them.

Then the casual gamer should spend some time unlocking skills and reading up on professions instead of failing the endgame areas over and over.

If you'd spend a few hours gathering info, it makes this game 10 times easier,

AOTT

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2007

I'm right behind you. And you're DISGUSTING.

Your Moms Name Here [derp]

N/

23 Apr 2008 at 20:51 - 184

To get through the RoT I depended on Protective Spirit almost as an exclusionary rule. Armor buffs might do the trick if you don't want to screw with that. I used Aegis occasionally, since the demon's barrage can really tear up a team. I also bonded occasionally, but the margonites use Mirror of Disenchantment, so it's not nearly as effective as usual. As for actually killing things, I found that you simply have to have something that just beats the crap out of things. Like an ele. Because they'll use Call to the Torment before they kill themselves on Empathy or Spoil Victor, and the damn archers use Whirling defense, so you pretty much have to either have a Wild Blow or a spell to kill them or you'll end up killing 70 bajillion of them in a row because they keep cloning.

I didn't have a huge problem with it.

I... I just don't know what to say... maybe... maybe the devs need to make an "easy" mode for some people... I mean, Quake and Doom have like, 5 difficulty levels...
or not.

Coloneh

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2006

D/W

23 Apr 2008 at 21:37 - 185

I agree with the OP. the end of nightfall was way to hard. it stopped being fun. things werent unbeatable, but you had to swing at the same mob for 5 minutes. no fun

Kapral

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2007

[LOD]

R/

23 Apr 2008 at 22:10 - 186

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

I agree with the OP. the end of nightfall was way to hard. it stopped being fun. things werent unbeatable, but you had to swing at the same mob for 5 minutes. no fun

It wasn't that difficult, it's just that the rest of the game was too easy. It was too big of a jump.

Nemo the Capitalist

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2006

Trust me you dont want to know my Chasms of Despair

Zaishen Brotherhood

N/Me

23 Apr 2008 at 22:18 - 187

whats up with 2 ppl with pokemon Avatars

btw man kill the lowest hp tormnet monster ideally

Monk

Ele Freeze spells hurt bad AoE
etc

DarkFlame

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Feb 2005

Ascalon

E/

23 Apr 2008 at 23:21 - 188

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leviathon

[B]I know many of my middle aged friends will agree.

As 45 year old gamer, (when you had to pay to play pong !), the game needs an EASY mode.

You give 45 year old gamers a bad rep. You don't need to do any of the things you say you don't want to do. Just use a little common sense and a little patience.

vamperik

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2005

N/

23 Apr 2008 at 23:31 - 189

Quote:

Originally Posted by mystical nessAL

Playing games is a waste of time.

And thats there point , to get rid of the time you done need

Yuhe Ji

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2008

Los Angeles

E/

24 Apr 2008 at 00:06 - 190

I think the OP's problem has been fixed. It was Leviathan that brought this thread back. I would advise starting with prophecies just to get a feel for things if you think it is too hard. What is the point of playing a game if you want everything to just drop dead for you?

The Meth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/

24 Apr 2008 at 01:51 - 191

I think the problem is as soon as Anet added hard mode, new players automatically assumed normal mode should be easy - and it isn't unless you have good builds and a decent amount of experience. Too many people automatically assume every game nowadays should have a just-let-me-beat-the-game mode, where anyone can finish it with a minimal amount of thinking and practice.

BladeDVD

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2006

Hawaii

Clan Of Elders

N/

24 Apr 2008 at 02:08 - 192

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leviathon

GW IS TOO HARD IN NORMAL MODE

The above is a true statement. Many of you will ridicule it or disagree with it.

I know many of my middle aged friends will agree.

As 45 year old gamer, (when you had to pay to play pong !), the game needs an EASY mode.

NO, I don't have 24 hrs of available time to invest in this game and "learn" all the in's and out's

NO, I don't want to join a Guild of 12 year olds (or even 20 year olds for that matter !) to play the game.

NO, I don't want to play the same mission OVER AND OVER AND OVER .... until I have a stroke.

YES, I want to get through the game with relative easy. (its an age thing)

YES, I don't mind if LvL 20 enemy sages drop dead on my mere presence next to them

YES, I stop frequntly to admire the beautyful scenery and graphics.

YES, I hate freaking timmers on certain missions.

ARENANET, .... MAKE THE NEXT GW WITH AN EASY MODE !!!

HINT: Watch the Staples commercial !

This is a MMO. It has to provide some kind of challenge to a wide range of people for a long period of time. A game like the one you described is not going to entertain ANet's target market.

I'm "only" 38, and while it took me a month or two to finally figure this game out, I really don't think the regular PVE part of GWs is in any way "too hard."

It is a very fun game once you get it though, and enjoyed by many people on our age range. Rather than bitch and moan about problems others have solved many times over the last three years, why not take a little time to figure out what's causing you so much heartburn so you can enjoy the game?

arsie

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2007

N/

24 Apr 2008 at 02:18 - 193

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leviathon

GW IS TOO HARD IN NORMAL MODE

The above is a true statement. Many of you will ridicule it or disagree with it.

I know many of my middle aged friends will agree.

As 45 year old gamer, (when you had to pay to play pong !), the game needs an EASY mode...blah blah blah...

I feel that the one thing that can make the game reduce its difficulty significantly, is to play with another human in your party. Not 7 other humans, probably not 2 other humans either. One other human, of your comparable playing skill so that neither of you lose patience with each other.

2 humans = 2 pairs of eyes looking out for stuff like bad aggros and patrols. It means 2 sets of PvE skills, 2 sets of 3 heroes, which are superior to henchmen.

But if you're not willing to learn the game, and the skills, noone can help you. Yes, it is a recreation, but like all recreations, be they skiing, scuba diving, riding a motorcycle, golf, poker etc, you gotta take time to learn it.

Master Sword Keeper

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Dead Isle

Farmers Of Woe [FoW]

W/

24 Apr 2008 at 03:29 - 194

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ju-On

So after having my rant, GAME DESIGNERS have some pitty on us casual gamers and TONE down normal mode just a smige plz! Otherwise its uninstall time and off to play something that is FUN for casual gamers!

end.

awwww dont feel down dude.. There's still plenty of ways to get around all those nasties that bump in the dark of torment.

Look me up in Game and i'll gladly help you out.

Auron of Neon

cool story bro

Join Date: Apr 2006

Mililani

yumy

24 Apr 2008 at 03:43 - 195

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leviathon

As 45 year old gamer, (when you had to pay to play pong !), the game needs an EASY mode.

NO, I don't have 24 hrs of available time to invest in this game and "learn" all the in's and out's

You're 45. It's a game made to be beaten by 13 year olds who absolutely fail at making builds or playing cohesively. Take some time, read the wiki skill lists, and study skill synergy; the time you spend in Guild Wars is precious, so don't spend it being bad. Patience and innovation (and experience that comes with age) pay off more than ranting on forums.

The monsters don't ever change. They're not going to pull out new tricks every time you play them. Spec against them and you win pretty much by default.

Or just bring paragons. SY makes you invincible long enough for any damage you might have to kill stuff. If you want an ezmoed that requires zero thought... paragons are it. I dunno why you want an easy mode to begin with though... you get no satisfaction out of beating a game on easy, and since Guild Wars lacks any semblance of a storyline, the satisfaction of winning is pretty much the only reason to play the PvE campaigns.

the_jos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Hard Mode Legion [HML]

N/

24 Apr 2008 at 07:28 - 196

While I understand that the game can get difficult for players at certain points I don't agree with making it easier.
There are some basic mechanisms in the game that people can learn in a couple of hours play. Most of those are covered in the starting areas.
Very basic: keep red bars up while making foes red bars go down.
And how some skills work better when combined.
The next set of mechanisms is not that obvious but can be learned quite fast.
Learning to pull, observing patrol movement, best place to take aggro.
Also useful to learn: how certain skills protect and what their advantages/disadvantages are.
For example, para shouts, wards, enchantments and traps can all protect a team but some are more useful then others in specific areas.

Then there are some specific things.
In the last mission of Prophecies you should make sure to kill only one titan at the time to avoid being torn apart by several hands/fists. Pull sparks or pre-prot when taking aggro to avoid spike death.
The timed missions in Factions are annoying but there are only a few that need to be completed in a specific time. The rest just give a lower 'ranking' when you are slow but that is not a problem. You can still continue.
Missions like Gyala and Eternal Grove would cause more problems for most players. Also depending on an unknown team in two missions is not fun.
The Realm of Tornment in Nightfall is an other problem area.
The key there is aggro control and focus fire on one foe at the time.
AoE damage might be bad because it could turn several foes to use 'Call' at the same time, making the group much harder to beat.

That's about it. The game is not that hard but you need to invest some time to learn what is going on.
Has been the same with all games I played before, from platform to FPS.

Fear Me!

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2005

E/R

24 Apr 2008 at 10:40 - 197

Normal mode isn't hard at all for me, and I use heroes and henchies all the time. Work at improving you and your heroes' builds and team skill cohesion. If you'd like ingame help, send me a private message via guru, I'll be glad to help. =]

Olim Chill

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

USA

DMI

N/

24 Apr 2008 at 12:17 - 198

Normal mode is not hard if you take the time to understand how the game works and learn how to play it. It's really that simple.

Prophecies is probably the best campaign to learn on as its progression of difficulty in NM seems the smoothest.

Nightfall's difficulty does 'snowball' near the end, but it's certainly nothing to ragequit over.

ogre_jd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2008

Canadia

W/

24 Apr 2008 at 12:24 - 199

Quote:

Originally Posted by Auron of Neon

and since Guild Wars lacks any semblance of a storyline, the satisfaction of winning is pretty much the only reason to play the PvE campaigns.

Yeah, that whole thing about the Charr overrunning Ascalon and pushing the human forces further west 'til they're forced to flee over the Shiverpeaks (aiding one of the sides of the Dwarven civil war) to Kryta, then the drawing in of the migration's greatest heroes into the webs of deception set by the White Mantle, Mursaat, and the Undead Lich, the release of the Titans and the triumph of the heroes... Never happened 'cos there's obviously no storyline.

Or the Asura fleeing from their homes in the depths of the earth to settle on the surface because of the appearance of the Destroyers, the attempt to rally and unite the surface races to push back that invasion, eventually leading to the final confrontation against the Great Destroyer... Never happened 'cos there's obviously no storyline.

I'd outline out the Factions & NF storylines, but I don't happen to have them and am too lazy to look them up on one of the wikis.

Anyways, Guild Wars has plenty of storyline (and just because you can go back to old outposts, do some quests and the missions multiple times, etc., doesn't change that), both main and plenty of long-term sub plots. It might not be LotR, or even the Belgariad, but it is a LOT better than many games out there (even among the CRPGs), and certainly better than any MMO currently on the market.

Fried Tech

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2007

[Yeti]

E/

24 Apr 2008 at 12:26 - 200

Quote:

Originally Posted by BladeDVD

Rather than bitch and moan about problems others have solved many times over the last three years, why not take a little time to figure out what's causing you so much heartburn so you can enjoy the game?

My thoughts exactly.
There have been many, many,MANY edits to the game since Nightfall came out. If there was a difficulty problem, they would have fixed it by now. And aside from this thread I dont see anyone else complaining that the game is to hard. In fact, many complain that there are not enough elite areas