Tactics Worthless?
Sir Tidus
People have been saying that tactics is now worthless for warriors. Is this true? If so why? Also does that mean strength shields should be more sought after than tactics shields? Thanks in advance.
Boogz
tactis is dead due to the nerfs on "Watch Yourself!", "Fear Me!", "Shields Up!" and the buff on Lion's Comfort.Tactis is only used on monks at arenas for Balanced Stanced and Disciplined Stance imo
Sir Tidus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogz
tactis is dead due to the nerfs on "Watch Yourself!", "Fear Me!", "Shields Up!" and the buff on Lion's Comfort.Tactis is only used on monks at arenas for Balanced Stanced and Disciplined Stance imo
Does that mean we will see a drop in the prices of tactics shields pretty soon? I have a diamond aegis, should I sell it?
jonnieboi05
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
~LeNa~
Luminarus
Yes you should probably sell it, although the skin is already worthless so the price drop wont be that noticable...
MagmaRed
Tactics is not dead for the people that know how to use it. The skills people used a lot got nerfed, but there are other skills in Tactics that work well. Most of the 'Tactics is dead' crowd is PvP only.
Riposte, Deadly Riposte, Balanced Stance, Wary Stance, etc. all offer nice options for PvE warriors. There are also some nice attack skills like Drunken Blow, but people forget them.
Tactics is less effective for certain things, but it is not dead.
Riposte, Deadly Riposte, Balanced Stance, Wary Stance, etc. all offer nice options for PvE warriors. There are also some nice attack skills like Drunken Blow, but people forget them.
Tactics is less effective for certain things, but it is not dead.
![[Morkai]](/static/static/../Img/avatar144860_1.gif){kind=avatar}
[Morkai]
Steady Stance and Glads defense is all the is rly left tbh, And the Drunken attacks.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagmaRed
Tanking skills on warriors is baed.
Tactics was really dead in PvE ever since "Save Yourselves!" appeared, tbh.
Killing "Watch Yourself!" alongside the Lion's buff was the final nail.
Now, all that's left is Steady Stancers and some nich stuff for farming/caster self-defense.
Winterclaw
What Alex said. Anet just beat that horsie until it died. Healing sig is usable, but I don't think it's worth the points for what it can do. Now if anet made the cast time one second and removed the armor penalty, it would be worth considering for a self-heal, however the rest of the skill line is weak.
BTW Magma, mob AI tends to focus on people with lower HP and AL in that order.
BTW Magma, mob AI tends to focus on people with lower HP and AL in that order.
Numa Pompilius
Only time I use tactics for my warriors is in some solo farming builds, e.g. FoW spider farmer.
Age
What about those who what to run "Charge!"?This could be used in both parts of the game.
DarkKnight
On most PvP or general PvE build tactics is a bit forgotten but not completely useless.
Sir Tidus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormlord Alex
Fix'd
Tanking skills on warriors is baed.
Tactics was really dead in PvE ever since "Save Yourselves!" appeared, tbh.
Killing "Watch Yourself!" alongside the Lion's buff was the final nail.
Now, all that's left is Steady Stancers and some nich stuff for farming/caster self-defense. I have to say that deadly riposte and riposte aren't for "tanking", they are doing armor ignoring damage to melee attackers.
Tanking skills on warriors is baed.
Tactics was really dead in PvE ever since "Save Yourselves!" appeared, tbh.
Killing "Watch Yourself!" alongside the Lion's buff was the final nail.
Now, all that's left is Steady Stancers and some nich stuff for farming/caster self-defense. I have to say that deadly riposte and riposte aren't for "tanking", they are doing armor ignoring damage to melee attackers.
free_fall
Not having played a warrior in a while (been leaving that to Koss/Jora when playing non-W chars), I was surprized to see the Watch Yourself nerf when I recently started playing a new W toon.
I generally check the updates thread to see if any skills I normally use got him by the nerf bat but must have missed that one somehow. Bummer - Watch yourself was a nice skill. Upshot is that I've taken it off her bar and put those Tactics points into Strength instead. Of course, that means no Balanced Stance for her, either - so she gets knocked down on occassion, no biggie.
I generally check the updates thread to see if any skills I normally use got him by the nerf bat but must have missed that one somehow. Bummer - Watch yourself was a nice skill. Upshot is that I've taken it off her bar and put those Tactics points into Strength instead. Of course, that means no Balanced Stance for her, either - so she gets knocked down on occassion, no biggie.
masta_yoda
half of the tactic skills are really useless now
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
I have to say that deadly riposte and riposte aren't for "tanking", they are doing armor ignoring damage to melee attackers.
Not much damage involved, only works on idiots...
Plus it's only on one attack.
"WY!" is outclassed by "GftE!" on PvP Paragons now, anyway.
Plus it's only on one attack.
"WY!" is outclassed by "GftE!" on PvP Paragons now, anyway.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
I have to say that deadly riposte and riposte aren't for "tanking", they are doing armor ignoring damage to melee attackers.
Or you could take an attack skill and deal comparable damage even if they don't attack you.
Ripostes are bad.
Ripostes are bad.
MagmaRed
Quote:
Originally Posted by Winterclaw
BTW Magma, mob AI tends to focus on people with lower HP and AL in that order.
True. However, if you work with intelligent people, a warrior can gather a group of enemies, both melee and casters to a single location. He can then hold them there (even without snares) for your team to dish out damage. I won't argue the merits of tanking in PvE, but it does work (if you doubt me, go look for a PUG doing Slavers). Riposte, Deadly Riposte, Shield Stance, Defensive Stance, Wary Stance, etc. all allow a warrior to reduce the damage he takes. Skills like Riposte allow damage to be dealt as well. Since PvE monsters will have Wild Strike, Throw, Blow often, the non stance skills like Riposte are the better option.
Tactics is not dead. It has changed, and, uh oh, requires intelligence to use now. Note also, I am referring to PvE Tactics only.
Tactics is not dead. It has changed, and, uh oh, requires intelligence to use now. Note also, I am referring to PvE Tactics only.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagmaRed
However, if you work with intelligent people...
Intelligent people don't bring tanks. They take an imbagon, a curse necro, and monks that know how to prot and let the monsters break themselves on layers of defense; whilst they steamroll things faster than any tank-n-spank group ever could.
The Daemon Warrior
Quote:
You can still use some tactics skills for farming though. I'd say tactics is not dead, just dying.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Daemon Warrior
Then why do you see people in high lvl area's asking around for an Obi Tank?
Essentially, a lot of people are incredibly bad at the game and need to rely on a tank to absorb all the damage because they're clueless on how to deal with it themselves - they've never heard of kiting, Enfeebling Blood, Protection Prayers, Wards... or Paragons in general; so they revert to the tank strategy of every other MMORPG and still cling to the belief that Eles kill things.
Luminarus
Ripostes are bad... in pve tanking is retarded... in pvp an attack is better because anyone with half a brain wont attack you.
If you can kill someone with ripostes, you can kill em without em.
People use tanks in slavers because they want to mindlessly, effortlessly win. Send invinci tank in, monks heal some, eles nuke some, mob dies... next...
Take a balanced group into slavers rather then pugging it with 3 SH, 1 necro, 2 Monk, 1 Ranger, 1 Tank or whatever the build is.
Just to prove it, ill go through all the tactics skills:
Charge... useful but better options now (fall back etc)
Fear Me ... recharge = not worth the attribute points.
None Shall Pass... yay for 1.33 kd's CONDITIONAL kd's per minute (gale is better). Even if its allright, it doesnt require tactics spec so no usefullness
Retreat... Fall back gives heal, is less conditional
Shields Up... Nerfed, most damage comes armor ignoring.
To The Limit... If there are enough foes around you for it to be worth it you're better off with aoe attacks thatll do damage AND give you the same adrenaline.
Victory is Mine... Waste of an elite, LC gives better, more reliable heal. Energy isnt so necessay on warrior
Watch Yourself... Nerfed 3 attacks, 4 recharge not worth the slot
Auspicious Parry... Elite Riposte without damage = FAIL
Balanced Stance... All right, but better on secondary's because losing you're IAS for this is bad.
Bonnettis Defence... Blocking = Aright, No skills = fail, e-gain = useless (mostly) aright for some farming builds
Deadly Riposte... Ripostes bad
Defensive Stance... no skills & no IAS, non-permanent... bad
Deflect Arrows...No attacking
Desperate/Drunken Blow... pretty decent, one of few good skills in tactics line.
Disciplined Stance... no attack skills & no IAS, non-permanent... bad
Glads Defence... elite longer duration riposte... bad
H-Sig: Outclassed by Lions Comfort
Protectors Defence... haha when they move, ur screwed. Recharge 2 big
Riposte...Ripostes bad
Shield Stance... unable to catch foes, no IAS, un maintainable... bad
Shove... good on sins, losing adrenaline and non-attack skills is bad
Soldiers XXX... some good on x/w's, bad now due to no permanent shouts (wy nerf) (This includes all the soldeir skills)
Steady Stance... good skill with desperate/drunken.
Wary Stance... crappy bonettis defence
Thrill of Victory... arightif you're speccing into tactics but not worth speccing just for it.
Wow i cant believe i just did that...
so yeah tactics has less then 7 non-cruddy skills, and they really only work in SS/Desperate builds, or in solo farming where AI is too stupid and gets killed by ripostes.
If you can kill someone with ripostes, you can kill em without em.
People use tanks in slavers because they want to mindlessly, effortlessly win. Send invinci tank in, monks heal some, eles nuke some, mob dies... next...
Take a balanced group into slavers rather then pugging it with 3 SH, 1 necro, 2 Monk, 1 Ranger, 1 Tank or whatever the build is.
Just to prove it, ill go through all the tactics skills:
Charge... useful but better options now (fall back etc)
Fear Me ... recharge = not worth the attribute points.
None Shall Pass... yay for 1.33 kd's CONDITIONAL kd's per minute (gale is better). Even if its allright, it doesnt require tactics spec so no usefullness
Retreat... Fall back gives heal, is less conditional
Shields Up... Nerfed, most damage comes armor ignoring.
To The Limit... If there are enough foes around you for it to be worth it you're better off with aoe attacks thatll do damage AND give you the same adrenaline.
Victory is Mine... Waste of an elite, LC gives better, more reliable heal. Energy isnt so necessay on warrior
Watch Yourself... Nerfed 3 attacks, 4 recharge not worth the slot
Auspicious Parry... Elite Riposte without damage = FAIL
Balanced Stance... All right, but better on secondary's because losing you're IAS for this is bad.
Bonnettis Defence... Blocking = Aright, No skills = fail, e-gain = useless (mostly) aright for some farming builds
Deadly Riposte... Ripostes bad
Defensive Stance... no skills & no IAS, non-permanent... bad
Deflect Arrows...No attacking
Desperate/Drunken Blow... pretty decent, one of few good skills in tactics line.
Disciplined Stance... no attack skills & no IAS, non-permanent... bad
Glads Defence... elite longer duration riposte... bad
H-Sig: Outclassed by Lions Comfort
Protectors Defence... haha when they move, ur screwed. Recharge 2 big
Riposte...Ripostes bad
Shield Stance... unable to catch foes, no IAS, un maintainable... bad
Shove... good on sins, losing adrenaline and non-attack skills is bad
Soldiers XXX... some good on x/w's, bad now due to no permanent shouts (wy nerf) (This includes all the soldeir skills)
Steady Stance... good skill with desperate/drunken.
Wary Stance... crappy bonettis defence
Thrill of Victory... arightif you're speccing into tactics but not worth speccing just for it.
Wow i cant believe i just did that...
so yeah tactics has less then 7 non-cruddy skills, and they really only work in SS/Desperate builds, or in solo farming where AI is too stupid and gets killed by ripostes.
Sword Liger
Basically in most cases now
Strength < Tactics
Strength < Tactics
Squishy ftw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sword Liger
Basically in most cases now
Strength > Tactics Fixed.
12chars
Strength > Tactics Fixed.
12chars
uther argas
um healing signat is still better then lions. Lions you have to get adren for so its not always ready when you need it. and its not really that good w/o tactics anyway.
stale
Quote:
Originally Posted by uther argas
um healing signat is still better then lions. Lions you have to get adren for so its not always ready when you need it. and its not really that good w/o tactics anyway.
dude, please read the current description for lion's comfort.
heals you on a scale dependent on strenght - they removed the tactics boost and upped the heal.
it also provides 2-3 adrenaline now...
heals you on a scale dependent on strenght - they removed the tactics boost and upped the heal.
it also provides 2-3 adrenaline now...
RhanoctJocosa
[skill]Deadly Riposte[/skill][skill]Disciplined Stance[/skill][skill]Balanced Stance[/skill][skill]Shield Stance[/skill][skill]Healing Signet[/skill]
And I'd say HS is still > LC.
And I'd say HS is still > LC.
Sir Tidus
I think LC is way better than HS because you have to use HS with a block stance.
Coloneh
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
I think LC is way better than HS because you have to use HS with a block stance.
not really. kiting works pretty well.
Sir Tidus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coloneh
not really. kiting works pretty well.
You can't kite while using HS.
Sir Pandra Pierva
kite then use?
Sir Tidus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Pandra Pierva
kite then use?
What's the point then? It's during the activation time that you need protection. Unless you are saying that a warrior should flee from the fight and then use HS?
Yichi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
What's the point then? It's during the activation time that you need protection. Unless you are saying that a warrior should flee from the fight and then use HS?
a smart warrior will always know when to step back away from whatever's hurting him to either heal or re-position themselves for another attack on that target.
A dumb warrior will be the one standing in savannah heat using heal sig...
A dumb warrior will be the one standing in savannah heat using heal sig...
Sir Tidus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yichi
a smart warrior will always know when to step back away from whatever's hurting him to either heal or re-position themselves for another attack on that target.
A dumb warrior will be the one standing in savannah heat using heal sig... But you can't just step back when the enemy is attacking you.
A dumb warrior will be the one standing in savannah heat using heal sig... But you can't just step back when the enemy is attacking you.
~ Dan ~
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Tidus
But you can't just step back when the enemy is attacking you.
Why not?
12
12
Squishy ftw
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
Why not?
12 Because dolyak signet is slowing you down.
12 Because dolyak signet is slowing you down.
Shaz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy ftw
Because dolyak signet is slowing you down.
then the -armor from heal sig shouldn't be a problem 
Squishy ftw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaz
then the -armor from heal sig shouldn't be a problem
That's the healing signet problem solved then.
That's the healing signet problem solved then.
Sir Tidus
Quote:
Originally Posted by dan-the-noob
Why not?
12 Because the enemy will keep attacking you when you use HS!
12 Because the enemy will keep attacking you when you use HS!
Sir Tidus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy ftw
That's the healing signet problem solved then.
No it's not solved! You can't use dolyak signet because it slows you down to a crawl. The way I see it, the only way to use healing signet in a fight is to use disciplined stance (better than shield stance because +24 armor also protect you from damaging spells).