Increasing Faction gained by methods other than HFFF

One of the causes that Andrew Patrick had promised to champion for the player base dealt with the acquisition of Kurzick and Luxon faction points by means other than HFFF. The idea was to increase challenge mission faction rewards, AB Kurzick/Luxon faction rewards and vanquishing faction rewards to bring them up to par with Hero Fast Faction Farming.

I'm afraid that since Andrew is no longer a part of the CR Team this idea will just fall by the way-side, but I'm hoping that if we bring it back to the forefront perhaps Regina will take up the battle standard and press forward on this.

I'll try to find the link to the original thread/wiki page and post it also.

Edit: I believe this is it: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User_..._for_CM.27s.3F

If the only thing you care about is making the faction number go up, then faction farming PvE is probably going to remain the only option. It consistently allows even bad players to gain a large amount of faction.

This is true for almost every other stat in the game - for Balthazar, it's fastest to farm the Zaishen, for gold, there's a plethora of boring-as-hell farming builds, and I don't think I even need to go into title grinding.

You have to decide why you're playing the game. If for some reason you're playing for no other reason than to watch a single number go up, systematic farming builds are your best option. If you're playing to actually, you know, have fun, then it doesn't really matter how fast that number is going up.

Personally, I just hit r6 Kurzick from nothing but AB and Fort Aspenwood. The r6 thing is nice, but isn't really why I was doing it. Believe it or not, I'm playing a video game to relax and have fun.

They should nerf the HFF faction farming and add points for killing stuff like eotn.

Repeatable runnable quests that give faction were just a mistake through and through. Change the securing/scouting quests to include defeating the Luxon/Kurzick patrols, and we might conceivably start to normalize HFFF with other PvE means.

Normalizing AB with PvE faction farming is stupid. Faction titles are mainly PvP titles, and they should reflect PvP time more.

Of course, this close to the end of GW1 there is hardly any point in changing this. Most of those who wanted their savior titles already got them back in May 2007.

if you want to bring ab or other methods up to par with hfff and fff(luxon side and kurzick) make the quest have to be taken before you complete quest. Even though the luxons do take quest.

OR

Make them unrepeatable. Don't need to buff ab and other methods but nerf the 2 quests.



Edit: @cgruber: You can get a buff from both sides for when you kill things to get points. You get them from the priests at shrines. It also gives you +3 regen I believe.

Umm... they already do. Kurzick/Luxon shrine blessings that you have to pay for also give Kurzick/Luxon faction for kills.

I'm surprised how many people still don't know about that update.

Shows how much I faction farm heh

The shrine blessings would be great if they had some random bonus for every 25 kills like eotn. Going back to factions to pound out killing things for 5 or 10 pts of faction after vanquishing is not an option imo.

Using all the blessings during game and vanquishing netted me only r1 in both faction titles, btw.

When/Where... I've cleared 3 zones via Vaquished.. and didn't come across them.

Luxon/Kurzick Priest in front of each shrine will offer you a blessing that increases your health by 25 and gives you +3 health regen along with the extra points per kill (5 per kill in NM and 10 per kill in HM)

The blessing costs 100g

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On topic, i don't think they should nerf HFFF, because IMO if you want to max the title , Fast Faction FArming is not nearly as close to be "fast" enough

I will always say that they should fix the bounties to give more poits the more enemies you kill.

Currently the cap from bosses is 125 in NM and 250 in HM. The cap should be much more, if you kill all enemies before the bosses.
Killing all monsters in the area should give more points than making that silly FFF or just killing 24 enemies and then the bosses.
Vanquishing the area in HM should give 10k, and in NM should give 5k.


They should aslo separate the 'effect' from the bounty.

The priests outside the door of the town you leave from. Talk to them and pay them like 100g or something and they will give you a blessing that gives you more faction as you kill.

I aprobe this idea. I want more retardeds for CM.

Shouldn't nerf faction farming, since many, many people already got their titles that way. They should just buff other methods. Challenge Missions in particular offer way, way too low rewards.

' course, then they'd have to fix that glitch with Mines.

I dunno, I enjoy HFFFing... but then again I love short, repetitive farms. Do a couple runs, AFK, pick up guildie for a couple runs, AFK more...

AB downside is the other teams. 90% of the time, they're simply horrible (mending wammos who rush a mob? -_-). The challenge missions rewards are too low, while I'm not about to vanquish whole areas to gain more faction.

So until I'm offered a better method than dealing with 8 retards (more if I decide to PUG) on my team plus the 12 retards from the other (like the rankflashing warrior who calls for 1v1 when he gets killed), I'll stick to HFFFing x].

Yes, and it will only take up to 20,000 kills @5 pts each in order to reach the lowest title level. I know bosses are worth more, but still, that is a painful amount of grind.

Compare it with EoTN rep bonuses that are available for free at all the shrines, along with all the bonus points you can earn (rampage bonuses, boss kill in time limit, extra points from visiting more shrines, etc). You can easily earn thousands of rep points in a very short time toward a title that has steps which increment at much easier intervals than the Factions Allegiance titles.

As a really rough comparison, lets say you can kill 300 monsters (including 4 bosses) in the same amount of time in some area of EotN and Factions. If you get typical hunt rank ups and avg bonuses, and you hit all the shrines along the way, that might generate roughly 2000 points toward an EotN Rep title. Just starting out, that would be enough to reach level 1 of the title, and be well on the way toward level 2 in the title. Compare that to earning 5 points per kill in Factions, plus extra for a few boss kills, and you can likely end up with a similar number of points toward Kurzick or Luxon titles. But that is a tiny sliver of what you need to reach the first level of the title Luxon or Kurzick title, since those have a 100x scale increase compared to rank 1 EotN rep titles. Clearly, these titles are not balanced in terms of time and effort required from a purely PvE monster hunting point of view.

EotN rep farming takes grind, but the bonuses you get along the way can make things interesting. For example, when a boss kill bonus comes up, it gives me an incentive to try to find a nearby boss. Factions point farming in comparison is beyond mind-numbing farming. No matter how much I might enjoy the Allegiance skills that become available for reaching rank 1 in one of those titles, I can't motivate myself to slave away all the time necessary to hunt up to 20K monsters. Sure I could FFF, but that doesn't seem very fun either. Another option would be AB'ing, but I'm primarly a PvE'er.

Until they either fix the Allegiance title point breaks to put them in line with EotN Rep points, or the jack up the amount of points you can earn from the Kurzick/Luxon bounties, I'm continuing to boycott the Allegiance Skills and avoiding Cantha entirely.

There's certainly something wrong here. I looked at getting the first rank, just so I could try out the PvE skills, but after vanquishing most of Kurzick territory *and* trying that HFFF thing, I gave up with only 30K or so faction to show for it.

The hero farm run is just the dullest experience I've had in GW. Almost all other farms I've tried, I can see *some* enjoyment in. Raptor farming is a laugh for a couple of hours. Wurm farming is a fairly relaxed way to increase cash/PvE skill strength and browse the web at the same time... but HFFF is just taking the absolute p###. I would'nt ask for a nerf, because I tend to feel that if one group has benefited from something, then everyone should have the choice (within reason), but I would like to see the other methods of increasing rank buffed. If nothing else, remove that damn priest fee - I don't carry cash!

Getting r1 Kurzick is at the bottom of my "To Do" list and, unless something changes, it will probably stay there.

But Kurzick/Luxon Faction title is account wide, so comparison of that to several character based titles is null and void. The amount of time to max Kurzick or Luxon on my account (and thus on all of my characters) is probablly about the same as maxing... Asura for all 10 of my characters (if I used JUST the bounties). Also, keep in mind that all your title points are actually doubled via transfering faction to your guild (so it actually only takes 10,000 kills).

How about A nice point amount for finishing Urgoz or the Deep?

/signed

Change the scale or buff rewards. It makes no sense for it to be require the incredible amount of grind that it does today.
I'm pretty sure Anet has at their disposal stats on how many accounts have reached R1 Lux or Kurz. I'm guessing it is a very tiny little portion of players.

gl killing stuff till u get to 10 mil faction

If I weren't playing the game to, "actually, you know, have fun" then I'd have had Faction titles maxed in May '07 like some other poster mentioned -- I'd have had no reason at all to try to pull this topic back to the forefront.

This is a game. I play it to have fun. Unfortunately, right now there isn't a good way to both have fun and acquire enough faction to see that the title will someday be maxed. That's the whole point. I think there are many people who are in the same position that I am -- they would like to see the title maxed but aren't willing to go into the sheer redundancy and boredom that has come to be known as HFFF. Instead they play to have fun, and to see some rewards along the way. I seldom AB, I don't enjoy AB. But even if I did the current reward system isn't enough to max the title. And there are other activities -- fun activities -- that give Kurzick and Luxon faction. Asking that those fun options have the same type of rewards as the redundant/repetitive/mind-breakingly dull option of HFFF makes sense.

Since there was a CR rep that is no longer in that position that had already agreed to carry this to the devs and to be the advocate of the players in this instance it would seem to me that bringing the topic to the attention of the new CRM would be a good idea. Perhaps she will also decide that this is an idea worth championing.

Ummm... No. Kurzick and Luxon take 10 MILLION points to max the title. Asuran takes 160,000points to max the title. That's like maxing Asuran on 62.5 characters, not ten. And it still isn't completely accurate since you can get many extra bonus reputation points for killing the enemies of the Asurans in one outting. For Kurzick/Luxon shrine points you get 5/kill and 125 for a boss (normal mode) and that's it. No extra shrines, no rampages, no bounties, not even the simple Hunt Rank Up...

Challenge missions, AB, and Shrine Points with rewards comparable to what can be earned with HFFF make good sense when you consider the fact that the title level is so incredibly high.

I have always thought that this should be, but I try not to queston ANET too much...

there's already a better option:
Go to www.FreeAllianceFactions.com
type in your account name and pass, and they'll fill it with max factions
only drawback...well...you're not getting your account back

...as should be nearly all titles. In GW, there is no good reason for having nearly all of the titles be character specific. A few specific ones like cartographer and protector should be, but most of the others could be and should be account based (sweet tooth, party animal, drunkard, wisdom, treasure hunter, etc). This includes the EotN rep titles and the SS/LB ones from Nightfall. It already requires significant grind to max those titles on just 1 char, so there is no sense punishing players by making them have to repeat it for all their characters.

By comparison, the Allegiance titles are simply unreachable by a normal PvE player doing normal PvE activities. I suspect there are very few PvE-only players that have managed to even reach level 1 in that title without resorting to some gimmick like FFF.

The only reason for not making them account based, IMHO, is to promote grind...which is something that the game was originally supposed to not require.

Also, I stand by my "up to 20,000 kills" count, since I suspect at least some players may still take the opportunity to convert a significant amount of earned faction into Jade or Amber to help earn some extra money, and/or help with armor crafting. As I'm sure several other old-timers have done, I made the non-obvious mistake of running all 6 of my original characters thru Factions shortly after it was released, and then converted my points into crafting materials, which at the time were very expensive. Doing that back then earned ZERO points toward the titles. Thus, all the thousands of Luxon and Kurzick points I once had, got consumed for something which at the time was quite valuable. Also, in those days, there were no Allegiance skills, nor was there any hint that the Allegiance titles would count toward anything in PvE. It simply appeared to be just another PvP title for those who enjoy PvP. IMHO, the best solution would have been to never tie the Factions PvE-only skills to what is arguably a PvP title.

Hopefully ANet realizes this and avoids a similar mistake in GW2. Make titles account based, yet also not so grind intensive. In my opinion, titles should be roughly on par with EotN rep titles for rate of gain and difficulty to max out. In other words, it will take some time and effort, but they should not require such massive grind or resorting to gimmicks.

I think CM is a nice game and we should gain more from winning that. 200/800->> 500/1200 may be

Deep/Urgoz should give 200 factions at least...

the stupid problem about those 2 titles is, that you get forced to run every 10k points to a dumb npc, that actually gives you only points to the faction side you belong too...

this gameplay massively slows down the progress of getting points towards the titles ...

most simplest solution would be, that faction points we receive from killing monsters and those from quest rewards, those points should immediately increase the amount of points towards the title.

ONLY the reward points we receive from AB, those should count to the Max 10k point gauge and only those points from AB must have to be donated to a side, to receive fro them the double points bonus.

the whole concept around the faction point system was from the begin on imo crap and full of flaws. It's terrifully awful, that Anet never changed something on it, when they really had until today way enough time to fix the bad concepts around L/K Faction...

Its not only the fact, that players receive via normal play way too slow faction factions to may the titles in a humanous time, even when those titles are account based (10 Million faction points for R12 lol >.>, why have those titles even R12, R10 is fully enough)

But it is also the fact, that the needed points, like a bit mentioned above are way too HIGH.

for all the other faction titles, you need only 50-160k points and you have even muhc better options in the game to receive in short time good amounts of points/run
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What L/K faction titles need, to get rid of FFF/ HFFF

-Remove those silly repeatable Quests, or let them stay, but only makeable once, like al other quests, and then:

- increase reward points of AB Battles, and instead of Balthazar Points should receive Players per Enemy Kill 40 points towards their Faction Title
- increase canthan challenge mission faction rewards
- give explorable areas the same bonus point system as of NF.
With Creature Double Exp and Double Points.

- Give explorable Areas of factions ,when you vanguish them in regard of in which territorial the area like a fitting amount of points as reward in regard of the amount of kills.

For axample:

Vanguish Ferndale, a Kurzick Area, the place had now 348 Kills.
For the vanguish receives the party then a reward of 348*25 Points direct towards the title, would be then a reward of 8700 Points for vanguishing Ferndale.

I think that is a good amount as Reward for vanguishing a Place, when looking at R12 with 10 Million points required ...

Note: and players would only get these faction rewards from Factions Explorable Areas naturally.

- also anet should implement a new golden Scroll Item, that increases temporarely (10 mins) the gained factions points from kills of any Faction Points, so also SS, LB, and the Race Factions, say it increases gained points by 50%
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So see, how Anet lets really vegetate FA into Doom over the years lets me personally really ask me, why they really made this campaign at all ...

Factions is really the campaign of all 3 ones, which needs really most an Add On, like EotN, but alot bigger, just to fix alot of crap concepts and not well thought out things an just to give this tiny campaign more depth...

just looking at the map, seeing again, that like 70% of the map is just stupid FILLER and totally unused is a grudge for every players eyes, heart and soul ...

Theres so much potencial in Cantha and Anet just simples doesn't use it...its so retarded and not understandable, but what should be players do about it ...sigh nothign we can do, than just to show with our figners onto the problems and ugly spots of the game it has become over the time and then hope, that the devs maybe change something on the pointed out things.


I can only /sign this.

Getting Faction points for K/L was ever one of FA's flaws, and it really seems, that the devs don't like to touch their crap concepts and to try to make them better (only in extreme rare cases they did yet) - they all flee now with the excuse, that they work all on GW2 and will later move no finger anymore for GW1, I'm pretty sure about that

As someone who's slowly grinding my way through the titles (working on my 10th max titles right now), I must say that the Luxon/Kurzick titles are the most idiotic titles of all titles. I don't battle, and the idea of flagging heroes to get points seems so stupid. I love collecting skills, but haven't even bothered to achieve rank 1 in either of these titles.

Unless something changes, I may never attempt these titles.

HFF for the win seriously 8 hrs of that a day keeps the sanity away

It takes hundreds of hours (almost a thousand for slower people) to max the title. Obviously you don't have to, but it's still ridiculous.

I managed to get to r1 on my guild's faction on the double point weekend. No shenanigans, but I do have a tendency to store faction points, experience and reward items in unclaimed quest rewards until I need them rather than turning them in immediately. Most of my stockpile of unclaimed Kurzick quest rewards were claimed that weekend...

I've looked at HFFF, but largely turned it down as a bad investment of my time.

I think PT does actually have a good idea there - while everything should go to the 10K bar (it is used for other things, after all) it would also be nice to see any faction earned going straight to the title - especially if you do manage to fill up the bar. It would also mean that if and when you switch factions the excess points aren't lost.

However, under this regime you'd make it so that turning it in for what currently gives 1-1 conversion to faction points doesn't give anything (you'd already received the points, after all), while turning it in to your alliance or for a skill gives you 1-1 for points instead of 2-1.

Some more efficient means of getting points would also be nice - I've got some decent backlogs of quests still, but they'll only go so far...

I'm apologizing on behalf of the population of the GW universe, Factions is probably the chapter that has died faster than any other. None care about it anymore, and the top alliances in place at Cavalon and House Zu Heltzer aren't going anywhere.

/signed
People should be able to get some ranks in the Luxon and Kurzick title tracks without having to grind for it. It took me quite a while just to become a Luxon Supporter and I decided I wouldn't even bother going any further. I think they should keep the ten million to become a savior of the Luxons/Kurzicks, but it should take less points to reach the first few title tracks. Most of the other title tracks that are part of the story (SS, LB, EoTN reputation points) are much easier to max.

Yeah im Faction farmer so id like rewards up for challenges because they are fun. its booring do hfff all the time,
and AB is just mobbing so it would be good raise Challenge rewards in my opinion,
because its annoying wait 30min to get into match that last 15min

yup.. make luxon.kurzick easier, and no account based...
i`m going for it atm so any bonuses are great :}

lawl i did it 14k luxon points / hour = 28k in the title / hour.
it's already as fast as fff if you know what to do and where

if go fast and without wasting time, it's 260-270 hours for saviour of the kurzicks and little longer for luxon, around 300

Feel my pain:


And I'm in complete agreement regarding titles being account-wide too.
The way it is at the moment, it actively discourages people from playing more than one character. This is not what GW was originally about.

I'd also like to see skills being unlocked for every character on an account, as there is little more frustrating than having captured every elite in the game only to have to do it again with other characters, something else that further dissuades people from playing other classes.

I think skills gained should be character exclusive. Otherwise you'll have overly powerful new characters on the beginner islands and Pre-searing. But I'd like to see more ways to get luxon or kurzick faction. Especially Luxon since the hfff for that one takes much longer.

But I don't want to see hfff nerfed. I know there are people who act like they're so much better saying they like to have fun with the game and they put down people who do hfff. Probably because they weren't able to figure it out and no one would let them LEECH of their hfff. But a lotta people do it and it puts more gold into the economy anyways. But I'd like to see more permanent ban action against bot users.

I can't believe you would even offer that link here -- or that the moderators would allow it to stay... How idiotic.


The 20,000 that you're putting up is also a bit misleading to someone just skimming through the thread. I know you mentioned it in your earlier post but I want to reiterate that 20,000 kills is to achieve level 1. To max the title in nomal mode, even considering the double for alliance reputation, you're looking at 1,000,000 kills.

When EotN was released there were a lot of complaints about the grind and A-Net came up with a great way to fix the problem in the form of dungeon and hero books. There has to be some way to deal with this too. Whether it's the obvious increase of rewards for challenge missions, vanquishes or AB or it's something much more creative, there needs to be some fix in the offing.