What's the deal with [rush] and [frenzy]. Why do so many of you put those in your bars.
I'm getting tired of people flaming me and saying I'm stupid when they obviously support using skills that *I* find inferior.
Seriously. Explain this logic. If you're just going to post saying "you're a dumbass" or something then don't bother posting because for once I'm asking for a REASON.
Ok explain this to me.
AOTT
the savage nornbear
IAS, cancel stance + a bonus run skill
Arkantos
For PvP, frenzy is arguably the best IAS available for a warrior. Since it's a stance that makes you take double damage, you need a second stance to cancel it. Since rush is a speed boost (useful for chasing kiting foes) and a low adrenaline cost, it's a very useful cancel stance.
Stormlord Alex
Frenzy is good.
Rush is good.
That's why people use them.
lolol
Rush is good.
That's why people use them.
lolol
AOTT
I was under the impression that the point of a run stance was to catch someone. [rush] requires you to gain enough adrenaline to use it, which implies either 1. hitting something (uh, running away from you) or 2. being hit over and over. I can understand canceling out Frenzy with another stance, but why use FRENZY of all the IAS in the game?
It makes more sense to me to use [Flail] and [sprint] so you can catch your opponent, THEN wail on them... or flurry... or really ANYTHING that doesn't cause you to take double damage?
It makes more sense to me to use [Flail] and [sprint] so you can catch your opponent, THEN wail on them... or flurry... or really ANYTHING that doesn't cause you to take double damage?
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOTT
stuff
People don't attack warriors much in PvP.
Frenzy has, essentially, no downside.
Frenzy has, essentially, no downside.
AOTT
People attack me ALL THE TIME in PvP.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOTT
People attack me ALL THE TIME in PvP.
Then the people you are playing are bad so it doesn't matter. Just ask for a Spirit Bond and continue Frenzying - you'll be invincible.
the savage nornbear
i have seen warriors use bows to raise adreneline from afar, not sure if this is wise seeing as i dont play much warrior, but you could do that to charge up rush. also you cant count on sprint to cancel frenzy as it has a 20 second recharge.
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by the savage nornbear
i have seen warriors use bows to raise adreneline from afar, not sure if this is wise seeing as i dont play much warrior, but you could do that to charge up rush. also you cant count on sprint to cancel frenzy as it has a 20 second recharge.
15 now, actually. For certain split/solo warriors, Sprint's a stronger choice (and it can be pretty lame stuck in Frenzy after [[final thrust])
As for the bows thing... never seen bows. Furious spears, however, are used occasionally.
As for the bows thing... never seen bows. Furious spears, however, are used occasionally.
Arkantos
If you need a speed boost right away, bring a spear set. Hit 4 targets, use rush. Flail makes you run slower, which is something you don't want in PvP.
Generally only hammer warriors bring flail, because most of them have 2 knockdowns, and if their enemy isn't dead by the time you've used the 2 knockdowns (6-7 seconds), chances are the enemy isn't going to die. Sprint is good, but you cannot keep it up indefinitely, like rush. Once you get the initial 4 adrenaline, you should be able to have rush up constantly.
Flurry is, well, horrible. Short duration, and it decreases your damage. It only decreases your normal attack damage, but warriors do quite a bit of damage with auto attacks, so it's not worth it.
The reason frenzy is the most used (and arguably the best) IAS on a warrior is because it virtually has no downside. Yes you take double damage, but warriors generally aren't targeted in most PvP areas, and you can get prots from your monks to negate damage.
Generally only hammer warriors bring flail, because most of them have 2 knockdowns, and if their enemy isn't dead by the time you've used the 2 knockdowns (6-7 seconds), chances are the enemy isn't going to die. Sprint is good, but you cannot keep it up indefinitely, like rush. Once you get the initial 4 adrenaline, you should be able to have rush up constantly.
Flurry is, well, horrible. Short duration, and it decreases your damage. It only decreases your normal attack damage, but warriors do quite a bit of damage with auto attacks, so it's not worth it.
The reason frenzy is the most used (and arguably the best) IAS on a warrior is because it virtually has no downside. Yes you take double damage, but warriors generally aren't targeted in most PvP areas, and you can get prots from your monks to negate damage.
Food
Frenzy increases a warriors' DPS by 50%. There are no cons if you can use it well.
Rush is an awesome cancel stance that costs 0 energy. Because you're going to be Frenzyed like 98% of the time you're almost always going to have it built up.
People who say Frenzy is bad are horrible at this game. That is all.
Rush is an awesome cancel stance that costs 0 energy. Because you're going to be Frenzyed like 98% of the time you're almost always going to have it built up.
People who say Frenzy is bad are horrible at this game. That is all.
AOTT
So, what do I do about PvE then?
Most of the builds I post are developed for PvE and people basically immediately denounce them.
Most of the builds I post are developed for PvE and people basically immediately denounce them.
jiggles
take a spear, and just throw it at the nearest person till youve got 4 adren bars, rush up to the nearest person, smack them about til youve got full adren, run over to who you want dead cast frenzy then your attack skills, said person dies then you rush away hopefully not taking to much damage.
simply really
simply really
I pwnd U
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOTT
Upper level PvP, such as GvG, had warriors hardly ever being attacked so no downside to Frenzy. Warriors will use ranged weapons to gain adrenaline in order to use Rush, so they have a boosted running skill and a stance to cancel Frenzy. Again, no downside. Essentially it is a great combonation of skills. Even though Frenzy makes you take double damage, learning to cancel the stance with another stance is good.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by AOTT
So, what do I do about PvE then?
Most of the builds I post are developed for PvE and people basically immediately denounce them. Use [skill]Enraging Charge[/skill] and [skill]Flail[/skill] for PvE
the savage nornbear
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOTT
So, what do I do about PvE then?
Most of the builds I post are developed for PvE and people basically immediately denounce them. as i understand, flail is THE pve ias for warriors
Stormlord Alex
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOTT
So, what do I do about PvE then?
Most of the builds I post are developed for PvE and people basically immediately denounce them. [[Flail]. In the same way that Frenzy has no downside for PvP because people don't attack warrs, Flail's got no downside in PvE because monsters don't kite. edit: if you're really pr0 and have stacks of booze laying around, [[drunken master] works too.
Winterclaw
My chars are teatotalers... no booze for them.
PS, Alex has it down pat. In real pvp, warriors are not primary targets so frenzy. In pve, monsters usually don't kite. Some casters kite in HM, so you are going to need a snare anyways.
snaek
Quote:
Originally Posted by I pwnd U
Stop RA'ing and AB'ing then.
Upper level PvP, such as GvG, had warriors hardly ever being attacked so no downside to Frenzy. Warriors will use ranged weapons to gain adrenaline in order to use Rush, so they have a boosted running skill and a stance to cancel Frenzy. Again, no downside. Essentially it is a great combonation of skills. Even though Frenzy makes you take double damage, learning to cancel the stance with another stance is good. Use [skill]Enraging Charge[/skill] and [skill]Flail[/skill] for PvE quite teh contrary... do u play gvg? or even obs them? i mean theres a whole class dedicated to attackin teh wars (bsurge) and counter-spikes on a frenzy war is quite a viable tactic especially if they're overextended from their monks frenzy+rush > flail+sprint for one...its lower recharge and more readily available if u bring anything else... "okie, spike this target on 3..." "wait, wait, wait! my ias isnt ready!!!" ...will happen
I pwnd U
Quote:
Originally Posted by snaek
quite teh contrary...
do u play gvg? or even obs them? i mean theres a whole class dedicated to attackin teh wars (bsurge) and counter-spikes on a frenzy war is quite a viable tactic especially if they're overextended from their monks One class dedicated to attack another, they are not taking near as much pressure, UNLESS they overextend, as the squishes are. I do watch GvG's but in general when you see the squishes taking alot more pressure, B-Surge really just keeps the warriors from hitting the monks and other squishes. I also said hardly ever which doesn't mean never.  Yes they do get attacked when overextending and B-Surge eles do blind them but the pressure and damage they take is nothing compared to other classes.
GaaaaaH
To use as a cancel stance. When in frenzy, and you dont want to take double damage (being hit), cast rus, or another running stance to stop double damage (last stance cancels the first cast)
the savage nornbear
isnt that what he said?
at snaek
AOTT
I'm.. not really sure what he said. It was kinda hard to TRANSLATE.
Aneres
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOTT
I was under the impression that the point of a run stance was to catch someone. [rush] requires you to gain enough adrenaline to use it, which implies either 1. hitting something (uh, running away from you) or 2. being hit over and over. I can understand canceling out Frenzy with another stance, but why use FRENZY of all the IAS in the game?
It makes more sense to me to use [Flail] and [sprint] so you can catch your opponent, THEN wail on them... or flurry... or really ANYTHING that doesn't cause you to take double damage? I personally prefer Flail and Sprint over Rush/Frenzy. ^_^
Lykan
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOTT
People attack me ALL THE TIME in PvP.
Thats why you take [rush], use [frenzy] and then when ppl attack you you use [rush] to cancel it. Simple really.
Div
Flail owns in PvE.
Frenzy is great in GvG because teams don't know how/when to punish it, and by the time they do you'll have used rush already. Unless your name is Famous Warrior or Chop Chop The Panda, in which case keep frenzying and getting spiked out 
shru
To sum it all up for those of you who can't seem to grasp the logic even after all these explanations...
PvE=[flail] PvP=[frenzy]+[rush] Don't try to confuse yourself by trying to understand it, just accept it as truth and do it. I'm not even going to provide exceptions (there are a few) as they seem to make things too complicated for you guys... Chthon
PvP's been covered. Frenzy for 50% increased damage; Rush for when people realize you're in frenzy and try to punish you for it. Don't think there's anything I can add.
Originally Posted by AOTT
Quote: So, what do I do about PvE then?
The popular choice around here is Enraged Charge + Flail.
Personally, I'm not a huge fan. 3 reasons: 1. Monsters kite. Not a lot, but enough to be annoying if you're self-snared. 2. Monsters die. And then you have to switch targets. Unless you got the sort of nice bunched up mob that AoE should have already wiped out, you're sometimes going to find yourself having to move a non-trivial distance across the field to reach your next target and hit it a couple times so you can keep SY up. Having a leftover flail still up pretty much guarantees SY is going to go down before you reach your next target, and enraging charge doesn't recharge fast enough to clear flail reliably. 3. Dilutes your adrenaline. Not a ton, but losing that 1 strike every 13 sec puts a noticeable kink in your skill chain. I tend to favor drunken master. Even though the IAS isn't as good as Flail and the IMS isn't as good as Enraged, they're passable enough and you get rid ofthe self-snare that you have on Flail. I think it boils down to which is more important to you: doing every bit of damage you can, or maintaining SY with as few breaks as possible. I might also add that DM compresses your IAS and IMS into one skill, so you have one more space on your bar to use for something else. Finally, in some situations, DM is actually going to get you higher DPS. If you have to cross the field a lot to acquire new targets (for instance: fighting magma blisters), you're going to end up getting in enough swings in the time DM saves off your travel time as compared to Flail to more than make up for the lower attack speed.
horseradish
[drunken master] in PvE. It's especially good if you're an alcoholic.
If you don't have EotN, then [Flail] will do. No Nightfall? [frenzy] + [rush] and practice cancel stancing....or stance canceling....whatever. 
Racthoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by shru
PvE=[flail]
PvP=[frenzy]+[rush] PvP axe and sword = [Frenzy] + [Rush] PvP hammer = [Flail] + [Rush] + [Enraging Charge]
RiceCream
just rephrasing everything like everyone else is doing (maybe all the cool kids are doing it too...
 )lets make this all pre- April 17 '08 nefs to drive the point in better take your standard shock axe bar [Bull's Strike][Shock][Eviscerate][Body Blow][Disrupting Chop][Frenzy][Rush][Resurrection Signet] Now, build up your adrenaline (you dont need to be at an IMS stance to catch your opponents, [Bull's Strike] is there for reasons, and some people dont know what kiting is). you've got your 8 adrenaline, spike is called, you [Eviscerate] and pop [Frenzy]. suddenly, your hit with [Lightning Orb] omg! cracked armor AND your in [Frenzy] BIG DAMAGE! (damn nerfs...). your being spiked (cause wars in frenzy are fun to hit) pop rush to save your butt. [Rush] is the perfect cancel stance for the reasons that you will always have adrenaline and is always recharged. it is not as much used to catch the opponent. but, due to its long duration, typically you will still be rushed (or have refreshed it) by the time the next spike is called. [beat me if im mistaken..im a monk]
Racthoh
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiceCream
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I wouldn't say always. Adrenaline skill blocked/misses means the pool is one strike short. A Blackout in Frenzy could also be fatal if the warrior has tunnel vision and didn't see it coming in time to hit Rush.
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it is not as much used to catch the opponent. but, due to its long duration, typically you will still be rushed (or have refreshed it) by the time the next spike is called. [beat me if im mistaken..im a monk]
Rush allows you to Frenzy more often since building 4 adrenaline is faster than waiting for Sprint to recharge. Of course the really good warriors will Frenzy even if the cancel stance isn't available.
zling
Quote:
Originally Posted by snaek
quite teh contrary...
do u play gvg? or even obs them? i mean theres a whole class dedicated to attackin teh wars (bsurge) and counter-spikes on a frenzy war is quite a viable tactic especially if they're overextended from their monks frenzy+rush > flail+sprint for one...its lower recharge and more readily available if u bring anything else... "okie, spike this target on 3..." "wait, wait, wait! my ias isnt ready!!!" ...will happen actually you're quite the contrary, BSurge eles are pretty dead now after the BSurge nerf. and even before that the meta was already shifting away from Blind Bots. and by the way, a Blind Bot isnt really "attacking" the warrior, it's shutting it down. there's a difference. yes BSurge and perhaps an Orb does some damage while the warrior is under frenzy but its not constant damage and it's not paired with anything, so it wont do jack to the warrior by itself. and if the warrior is targeted than the monks just have an easy time protting as warriors arent squishies, they dont die as fast due to superior armor...
Pyro maniac
Quote:
Originally Posted by zling
actually you're quite the contrary, BSurge eles are pretty dead now after the BSurge nerf. and even before that the meta was already shifting away from Blind Bots. and by the way, a Blind Bot isnt really "attacking" the warrior, it's shutting it down. there's a difference. yes BSurge and perhaps an Orb does some damage while the warrior is under frenzy but its not constant damage and it's not paired with anything, so it wont do jack to the warrior by itself. and if the warrior is targeted than the monks just have an easy time protting as warriors arent squishies, they dont die as fast due to superior armor...
linebacking ftw atm ..
Tyla
Quote:
Originally Posted by snaek
snip
A - B-Surge is practically dead.
B - It's dedicated to shutting down the Warrior, not dealing damage to the Warrior. Anyway, they're used because: In PvP, there are no downsides if the other team know what they're doing (Hunting down squishies), and Rush is a good IMS (Increased Movement Speed) stance to cancel it aswell. In PvE, there are no downsides to Flail. But either way, Frenzy is still the best IAS for me.
shru
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racthoh
PvP hammer = [Flail] + [Rush] + [Enraging Charge] |
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Originally Posted by Shru
I'm not even going to provide exceptions (there are a few) as they seem to make things too complicated for you guys...
i understand that there are exceptions, but getting into them any deeper is causing a few people to become lost. My thought was the simpler you make it, the more likely those people will understand it.
(yes, I am talking down to them, but if they can't get that frenzy is a good PvP skill, there realy isn't much hope for them.) Wnx Mreslayer
ive been running on the rush frenzy evis shock build for a month in PvE now and it works absolutely fine and you shouldnt even need healing most of the time... although you will need monk support from time to time xD
XDeadboltX
[protective spirit] and [frenzy] for pve if your really worried?
AOTT
Quote:
Originally Posted by XDeadboltX
[protective spirit] and [frenzy] for pve if your really worried?
lol.
One of my old guildmates looked at that possibility... it's not very effective. I am in agreement with the Flail in PvE thing. I understand the logic of frenzy for PvP; I don't like it and I think it speaks to the strange psychology of PvP, but I guess it's true enough that it's gained acceptance. I wanted to bring up [Berserker Stance] and [Tiger Stance]. How about those two? Would those work for PvP, or rather why are they inferior to Frenzy?
Bowstring Badass
Quote:
Originally Posted by AOTT
I'm getting tired of people flaming me and saying I'm stupid when they obviously support using skills that *I* find inferior. Seriously. Explain this logic. If you're just going to post saying "you're a dumbass" or something then don't bother posting because for once I'm asking for a REASON. |
How is [[rush] and [[frenzy] inferior they are the 2 skills stapled to every warriors bar for 1 reason (cept for hammer in that case [[flail]) they are best at what they do.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by AOTT
I wanted to bring up [Berserker Stance] and [Tiger Stance]. How about those two? Would those work for PvP, or rather why are they inferior to Frenzy?
They are inferior because berserker stance ends with a skill and tiger stance ends if you miss. You are more then likely to hit attack skills with frenzy up and it doesn't end when you miss because you were blinded for 2 seconds.
[[Tiger Stance] is mainly used on sins because it has no downside if you miss anyway your screwed till your combo recharges and it usually takes 20 seconds if you are using [[Tiger Stance] |