Serious Suggestion - Dual Wielding! - Please Read

Just should not be warrior... this should be primary attribute of next melee class. I would modify your stat suggestion though... I think I have a solution that work much more handily.

For every point in Duel Wield your off-hand weapon does 5% it's total damage output (hence, without one point you can not duel-wield.) Thus, at lvl 12 for example you could hurt an opponent for 60% of the weapon's normal damage.

I believe dual wielding is a good idea. I posted on GWOnline about this as well.

I agree with the fact that DWing should be kept as simple as possible.

Here are some of my suggestions (these may be slightly different from what I posted on GWonline)

There should be a new class of weapons that are identified as Dual Wield. These weapons would do less damage than than their normal counterparts.

for example: Swords (max damage 15-22 if I remember correctly) off hand swords: "Daggers" or "parrying blades" (5-10)

Off hand weapons would have unique (or not so unique) enchantments, not as powerful as either a shield or a full weapon, but enough to add some variety to the off hand weapons. Such as +2 defense, or "Increases poison recovery time" but less effective than shields with similar enchantments, and definitely able to add the elemental damage hilts.

I suggested that Axes should not have a dual wield option, but maybe a two handed option, although it's feasable to use two hatchets, it doesn't seem to fit the motif of an axe wielder, they are more "Cleave, smash, rend!" than dual wielders are.

I think the decreased damage and the decreased enchantments would be more than enough, because you'd be sacrificing the extra 16 AC!!!! that you get from shields, plus the uber enchantments.

Just my 2cents.

Dual weilding is only wanted for it's looks and not because it should be cool.
As I posted in the other thread, I think it should be only allowed on short-swords/daggers so it could be offered to other classes than warrior. For the warriors I'd love to see a 2-handed sword, but that's another suggestion.

My idea:
- New weapon type called 'short sword' or 'dagger'. The weapon should be arround 7-10 or less: you have to remember that a pair of weapons may have twice the mods of a normal weapon.
- New passive skill (passive like Charm Animal): you may equip an offhand weapon only with it on the skill bar. The skill may or may not give you a damage decrease (in %)

Again, I think this should be given to Rangers or new classes instead of warriors as a warrior with two daggers would look ridiculous.

Knowing little about programming and not having made any game, I still believe my suggestion is a little easier to impliment and balance than just allowing people to wield two weapons at once. Anyhow we all agree that what GW is lacking is other weapon types.

You realize when you WARN us that this is a serious topic, the first thing a rational person thinks is "Oh dear, this is a silly thread."

Regarding the introductory statement, I must have missed all that. Not saying it doesn't exist, just that I cannot find the items you claim. Secondly, I don't see one drawing, illustration, or otherwise similarity to Drizzt Do'Urden in the ENTIRE GAME.
There aren't even elves to be painfully obvious.
Impressive as it sounds that your friend can dual wield sabers and kitchen utensils in real life (I saw that Jackie Chan movie too) I fail to see how it applies to game demands?
I can also dual wield various objects, yet I never thought to demand it be put into the game...interesting angle there! Conversely, I would rather argue that since I am a Warlock within Tyria, I demand I be taught REAL spells and incantations in REAL LIFE.

Seems a bit silly doesn't it?
Indeed.
I am otherwise interested!

I really enjoy your style of writing!
That is such an open ended statement it churns my imagination...in EQ2 they implemented a switch (/pizza) that actually orders pizza to be delievered to your house in RL from within the game! How incredible is that?
Wondering if there were hidden switches (there always are...) I began frantically typing
/sex
/girlfriend
/money
But nothing happened...so I cancelled my subscription. Stupid Game!


Honestly? Not really.

Curious...is PWning the abbreviation for Partial wielding? (one appendage or tentacle tied behind one's back for instance?)



Wow..you really went to town here! I thought you just had a thing for sabers and kitchen utensils! Do you juggle? I think you'd enjoy it!

A-ha! Found you out at last...here I was thinking you were a Drizzt Do'Urden wannabe, but in reality you are SUPERVEGETA! ok.. got it.

I concur with you. I would love to dual wield a staff and a sceptre of flame. Actually, I'd like to be a dual wielding backpack master! Would that be cool or what?
In addition, what creature would suspect if you merely walked up carrying two backpacks? it would be like this:

Inquisitor: At last we meet Talesin...are you prepared to die?
Talesin: Never, foul White Mantle scum!
Inquisitor: Pray tell, what will you do then Talesin? You are unarmed! Do you think to defeat me by placing me inside one of those silly backpacks you carry? Muhahahah...prepare to meet your doom!
Talesin: Prepare to meet yours Inquisitor! **Quickly snaps the two backpacks into Balthazars death spiral attack, striking the Inquistor in the face on the inside swipe of the inner circle path, and stiking his ears on the exit spiral - stunning him**
Inquistor: No! NOOOOOOOOoooooooooo! **Dies**

Alright Slade, I am going to come right out and say it.

Your whole proposition is incredibly stupid.

By adding new primary attributes, you completely unbalance the game and all of the existing characters. You want dual wielding? Thats great, so do I, and so do many others. I do think that it would be best implemented in a new class that is designed to use it. For instance, as has been said before, a rogue or assassin class. This could be incorporated into the already delicate RPG infrastructure.

By the way, since we are all Drizzt Do'Urden wannabes and no one is willing to openly admit it save for myself, can we get a skin pigment that is jet black, like a freaking drow?

Dual-wielding would have to be on a new class. All the old professions seem balanced, and adding new attributes will screw everything up, especially for those who do not buy the next chapter.

I like the concept, but it will have to go on a new class

i got 20$ US says that dual wielding comes in as an attribute of the 'rogue' class in next expansion. i will even split 50/50 with gaile if she can make it happen.

Not sure why people are so keen on the rogue class, but IF they do add duel wielding, they will have to make sure it's balanced, otherwise people are gonna be screwing over their swords and focus items just to do more damage. Also it would definitely have to be on a new class, since the people that don't get the expansion will still be using whatever gets replaced.

Has anyone mentioned boosting the benefits of shield-wielding to balance DWing?

Shields are good for blocking arrows or bashing people over the head, and not much more

Exactly. Make Shield Stance have a % increase or have Shield Bash do more damage. Or simply up the maximum AL or something.

I would say I hope the do not implement dual weilding for several reasons:

1. It would be a pain to balance
2. Everyone and their grandma will use it because its 'cool' and they read to much drizzit do'urden
3. It would be a pain to balance

I think this would be best implemented on a new class. If the expansion only has lets say 2 new classes do I want one to be a rogue? Not really and please no freaking dwarfs. What do I want actually? I dont really want any new classes right now but CONTENT.

CONTENT BEING = Fixing Guilds and PVE and PVP, etc.

Classes are pretty balanced right now and people are still exploring all the possibilites and combinations. Two things I dont understand though is that maybe 25% of people are die hard melee oriented. Maybe of those less than half want dual wielding. Thats 10% of the gaming population. Building a class just for them seems kinda pointless at this time.


I would say 25% are die hard melee, 25% are die hard caster and 25% are die hard ranger with 25% sharing equal favor for two of the three.

I have always been die hard melee but to me a warrior is a big freaking sword TWO handed or a big freaking axe TWO handed.

Regardless I dont think dual wielding is for the warrior in this game. However you could probably build a Rogue like class NOW without the dual wielding.

Ranger/Warrior
Traps, sprint, shield stance's, bleeds, interrupts.

The only thing your not getting is abiltiy to steal from people which your not going to get. The ability to hide which could be totaly rediculous for game balance or the ability to backstab which is redundant with all warrior attacks anyway.

So you cant dual wield use a little imagination and pretend your foci is a weapon. It actually is in a way.

Ranger/Warrior template options
Expertise:
Dodge or [E]Escape
Lightning Reflexes
Throw Dirt
Whirling Defense

General:
Antidote Signet

Wilderness Survival:
Apply Poison
Barbed Trap
Choking Gas
Dryders Defense
Dust Trap
Flame Trap
Frozen Soil
Healing Spring
Malandrus Resilence
Muddy Terrain
Natures Ritual
Serpents Quickness
Troll Unguent

Warrior
Go Axe perhaps
Disrupting Chop
Distracting Blow

So Expertise, Wilderness Survival and Axe

Expertise 11+1
WS 11 +1
Axe 8 +1

Sounds like a rogue to me. Not much punch but a pain in the arse. Looks like a duck, walks like a duck.

What I dont want is this:

"Has anyone mentioned boosting the benefits of shield-wielding to balance DWing?"

Holy lets put a stop at this right now, we dont need a endless cycle of nerfing and strengthing, holy muther.

If new professions will be introduced, maybe it would be easier in some respects to incorporate dual wielding in the new class, rather than try to rebalance the warrior class.

A rogue/assassin/thief profession may be very cool. They would hate using shields and their max armor (i.e. leather/cloth) and HPs would be lower than a warrior, but they would make up for it in stealth, attack speed and dual wielding of slighter lower dmg "fast" weapons like short swords and daggers.

There's a lot A.net could do with a profession like this. For dual profession balancing, dual wielding would have to be a primary ability. A secondary ability could be Alchemy. Skills could be something like "poison blades", "drunken daggers", "comatose", "splitting headache", etc. So, with Alchemy, the rogue has the ability to enhance his/her weapons by use of poisons, drugs, etc to disable tankers from fighting effectively, to cause health degradation thru poison, etc.

Well, just a thought. Personally, I would love to see a rogue profession.

Indeed. If you had been here a bit longer, you'd know this topic had been done to death. Compare the date of the original post to your join date.

This came from an incident in the last BWE, where I ran into three different variations of the name Drizzt Do'Urden in a single district of Ascalon [Searing].


You don't get out much, do you?

Lol, everyone else seemed to get it. I guess intelligent trolls don't exist.

I have no idea how this pertained to the quote you attached it to.

Again, get out much? Some of us do something called "working out."

It was painfully obvious you didn't read the entire thread before posting, so I'll quote something I said later.

If you read the entire thread before posting, you'd know that I took it back as a new primary attribute for Warriors. If you had seem some of the one-line Dual-Wielding posts, you'd be happy to see mine. By the way, it sounds like you really want a rogue or assassin class...

Calling the kettle black? [pun intended] I am enamoured by the way you seem to hate the idea, you can spell his name correctly and know who he is. By the way, every played a Necromancer primary?

Slade xtechno...
You have firmly positioned yourself with the ignorant camp of
"Anyone who disagrees with me is rude and wrong."

My post was not meant nor written to be rude, but rather to point out several glaring deficiencies in your grandiose scheme - and in a tongue in cheek manner.

How can anyone possibly take you serious when you immediately attack any dissenting opinion? A good idea bears scrutiny; yours does not.
Let me cut to the chase for you:

Your idea is both stupid and the desperate fantasy of a Drizzt Do'Urden freak.
That's reciprocating the respect you gave my opinion.

Talesin

I fully agree with DWing weapons

but they should also have 2 handed swords and axes for the warr. class as well.

But there should be a balance to all characters unlike there is now.

lets look at how they got it setup right now.

Warrior (primary weapons for this class)
(3 different weapon sets to choose from)
1 handed sword + shield, or off hand item if they choose
1 handed axe +shield, or off hand item if they choose
2 handed hammer + nothing

Ele,Mesmer,Monk,Necro (primary weapons for this class)
(3 different weapon sets to choose from)
1 handed rod + off hand item, or shield if they choose
1 handed wand +off hand item, or shield if they choose
2 handed staffs + nothing
the reason i put all these together b/c max dmg really dont play a big part from a rod,wand,or staff and if comes to you beating the enemy down with either of the 3 then you prob going to die anyway.

now lets see here am i forgetting someone here...................................... ol yes the underdog of us all.

Ranger (Primary weapons for this class)
(look folks the ranger also have 3 weapon sets to choose from)
2 handed bow + nothing
2 handed bow + nothing
2 handed bow + nothing
wow they should not have put so many choices in for the ranger ya know.

each and every class should have the same amount choices that match there class of weapons to choose from.

if it be 2 handed with another type of off hand item that only be weilded by ppl with 2 handed weapons.
example
Bow + quiver
Hammer + nails<<<< just joking
so on and so forth

sure there mabe more than one bow to choose from but guess what it is still a bow.

I do think the DWing is a great idea and would add more options to the game play but i think they first need to give all classes the same options since they are trying to be so quote "fair to everyone and every class"

Hypocrite. You could at least spell my name correctly.

"Tongue-in-cheek?" People like you are labeled "trolls."

Again, please read the entire thread before posting a misinformed opinion. Throughout the thread I have edited the system under which I suggest DWing be implemented in Guild Wars by the constructive criticism others have made.
How can I respond favorably to a post that that does not help me come up with a better suggestion, but is rather simply trying to be funny at my expense?

An eye for an eye; my lack of respect was intentional. I beckon you to show me where in your post you respected mine.

I don't mind the statement in bold. This is the internet; I expect people to mistake the anonimity it provides with power.

I read the revised part, and I still agree with your post. Dual wielding would be an excellent addition as long as there is no balance issue. Naturally it's going to be popular if it's released, but it should be designed so that people eventually move away from it, and only the players that actually have a strategy for it use it.

I have one idea on how the damage issue could be resolved. Each normal attack could be something similar to the rangers Dual Shot. Dual Shot fires 2 arrows at one target, but they only do 75% damage. The advantage is that you obviously do more damage. However there is a chance that one arrow will miss, meaning you do 25% less damage than a normal attack. You also would recieve double effects of any defensive spells they are using that target attackers(not sure if this actually applies to Dual Shot, but it would make sense). Since Dual Shot is a skill though, the Dual Wielding would have to be stepped down slightly. Perhaps increase the chance of a miss for an offhand weapon. Or maybe the required stat for a weapon would be higher than average if it's offhand.

The last problem I see is mods/upgrades. If they have the same upgrade on both weapons, say Sundering, they have a double chance of armor penetration in that case, thereby increasing there chance of greater damage, offsetting the % decrease from using 2 weapons. To fix this, they could possibly eliminate off hand mods(bad idea) or modify the mods so they have a less percent chance of taking effect. Example: Swordsmanship +1 (20% chance)=Swordsmanship +1(10% chance).

Well that's pretty much it, if I think of anything else I'll be sure to post it.

Reasons one and three you listed are the reason I am trying to work at this idea; through this forum, I wish to present ANet with a list of examples as to how DWing could be implemented in Guild Wars.

I need to get to sleep, but I'll post something about Rogue/Assassin DWing tomorrow.

I'm up because I had trouble sleeping, so I might as well post this early.

I could see how a Rogue/Assassin class could work with two types of DWing - the traditional dagger/rapier [ie Artemis Entreri] or two daggers [ie the poor bloke who tries fighting Drizzt in Waterdeep]. [you wanted Drizzt fanboyism, Talesin?]
Both of the systems I am proposing can be traced back to 3], as I believe that introducing weapons that allow a faster attack speed than swords/axes will imbalance the game when it comes to skills like Mark of Pain, Illusionary Weaponry, etc. I may post another system later that ignores this personal qualm, but I'll do these first.

5] This is a suggestion for DWing for a new profession using both a primary and off-hand weapons.
Create two new weapons, both with a swingrate of of three seconds. That way, with two such weapons, the swingrate ends up 1.5 seconds, which is faster than a hammer but slower than a sword/axe.
One new weapon would be the rapier. Alternative names for items in the game could be foil, epee, saber, etc. With it's slower attack speed, I suggest it's damage be 17-29. This would provide for a good balance between sword/axe and hammer damage [since this is not the warrior class, it's damage will be less], but will allow for sizable crits. In all other respects, it should be treated like any normal melee weapon, with similar upgrades.
The other new weapon would be off-hand daggers. Alternative names for items in the game could be parrying dagger, main gauche, sword-breaker, etc. Given the same attack speed, it would do significantly less damage than the other, doing only 11-17 damage. However, this handy little item would provide an energy and shield armor bonus of up to +7 each.* To be perfectly honest, I don't know how upgrades could be made for this weapon; it could be the same as the current weapons or completely new unique to its support status.
The main attribute for these weapons could be called Swashbuckling, and would cover requirements and crits for both weapons. You would not get the full energy and shield AL bonus, along with weapon damage, if you did not meet the attribute req.

6] This is a suggestion for DWing on a new profession using two weapons of equal size.
Create a new weapon. Each would have a swingrate of 2.5 seconds. That way, with two such weapons, the swingrate ends up 1.25 seconds, which is slightly faster than a sword/axe [1.33 seconds].
To be honest, I can't imagine an assassin/rogue using two full-sized weapons, so I believe the new weapon would be a dagger. Alternative names for items in the game could be sword-breaker, kris blade, dagger [ ], kukri, punching daggers [dang, I forgot what these were called], etc. They would have a bast damage of 11-19 and each also provide an energy bonus of up to +5 and a shield armor bonus of +7. Upgrades would be normal, but may include a new upgrade to up the energy provided by 1-3e. If you haven't caught on yet, you would be able to wield one in each hand.
I'm not quite sure what you could name the attribute, but it would cover both requirements and crits. You would not get the full energy bonus or shield AL bonuses, along with weapon damage, unless you meet the attribute req.

An issue that must be addressed with both suggestions is their use with current weapons. Using either with a sword/axe would create a very fast swingrate, as the latter would strike about twice in the span of one of the off-hand's attacks. Aside from graphics issues of two weapons swinging at different rates, this could be remedied by simply doubling the swing speed of the said sword/axe when one of the new off-hand weapons I suggested.

I'd also like to set out my definition of constructive criticism, as the mere concept seems to be lost on a couple recent posters.
I consider constructive criticism to be suggestions, commentary, and notice of flaws regarding my suggestions that could help me come up with a better system. This does not include "0^^g |=@/|/|30\/111" or "I'm sorry, but your suggestion sucks" unless it includes reasons as to why.
Although general suggestions and comments still fine, some specifics I would like to hear are the names for the weapons mentioned and a name for the attributes. I'd also be very glad if someone could calculate the swingrate of using a sword [1.33s] and each of the suggestions [3s for 5] and 2.5s for 6]].

I'll comment on what everyone else has posted later, as I am guilty of not yet reading the older posts [it's very old, probably the oldest active one in Sardelac].

*Historically speaking, the choice of whether to use the main or off-hand weapon for defense was a personal preference, but often times the other way around. The term "parrying dagger" is a tribute to its deceptive nature, as it was normally the longer blade used to parry and maneuver the opponent's and the dagger that delivered the fatal blow.

EDIT: For future people who don't bother to read the entire thread, I have copy/pasted this post as an update to my first.

EDIT2: The smattering of wanna-be 1337 reads "OMG FANBOY!!!"

Sounds like an awesome idea, just one question will u allow the new character be able to double hold sheilds cause that would make an unbelievable tank if combined with a monk second proffesion

Ok, I don't want DW in the game on any current class.

I don't really want it in game. I REALLY don't want epée, saber, foil, rapier etc... in game. Having fenced for more than a little while and knowing the weapons' histories and limitations suggests right off that it would be a lousy weapon unless implemented in a"fantastic" sense, which I wouldn't enjoy. The only reason that the epée and fencing weapons were effective was the gun. Armour and weaponry evolve over time, but with the advent of effective guns, body armour was essentially obsolete. The reduction in armour meant that the heavier blades designed for use on heavy armour were slow and cumbersome, as a lightweight weapon could just as easily kill an unarmoured opponent. Given the heavily armoured foes in this game, a rapier/epée/foil/sabre would be useless.

I am not a fan of oriental "martial arts" in a western setting either - in expansions perhaps we'll meet a separate culture, but the fact is that martial arts develop and are influenced by who your opponents are and the terrain of your homeland. Having studied a few, I'll draw an example from the southern style kung-fu I studied - some of the stances are very odd, non maneuverable and based in very firm body positioning - as well, some of the take-downs don't seem a big deal - why the emphasis on these stances? Well, combat in this area often occured in flooded rice paddies - an area with tricky footing to start with, and a take-down/hold here is lethal due to the very real risk of drowning. Northern styles are more mobile.

What we think of as "martial art" weaponry developed in an area without metal armours and european medieval weaponry - it specialises in a compoletely different form of combat, and wouldn't make any sense within a "western" culture. If they introduce a new region, fine, but it is unrealistic to imagine that you could punch a dragon to death - I don't care how strong you are, if the hide can turn a blade or hammer blow you won't be punching and hurting it.

So, that's my view - go ahead, bring in DW in a new environment, and in a way that makes sense, but don't tack it onto an existing class/within an existing area, as none of them are appropriate. The only DW weapons appropiate to a medieval environment are off hand daggers and sword breakers really, and these were uncommon. Medieval combatants in armour used the armour itself as a weapon.

Those who cite Florentine combat may not realise that it developed (or at least, described by Francesco Altoni) in 1550, and was practiced with lightweight, fencing style weapons.

I'll start with Epinephrine's post on the second page [from 04.22.05].

Epinephrine: I am pretty positive this will be introduced with a new profession instead of being stapled onto the Warrior.
The idea of block rate slipped my mind and is a great idea. It would reserve off-hand armor as purely a Warrior trait while giving the new class an AL similar to non-W classes while still being able to emulate the advantage of having an off-hand parrying weapon. The armor penalty you suggested could also help balance the inherent blocking percentage.
Sgt Allen: I like the way you contribute a suggestion akin to mine, with a concept as well as an example. This follows the two-weapon fighting standards set by D&D, where there is a penalty to the off-hand weapon [in that case, damage].
Your suggestions seemed to follow my original suggestion of a new Warrior attribute. I'll follow up on what you have.
7] Make two new off-hand weapons. Both are linked to a new attribute called Ambidexterity, and the higher end ones will require it. Both of these weapons suffer a 75% miss chance, which is decreased by 3% per point in the attribute.
One of these new weapons will require Strength as well. These weapons do about 50%-75% damage as compared to a normal one-handed weapon [these numbers are subject to balance].
The other weapon would require Tactics. These weapons would provide a block rate of 4%-20%. To balance this, points in Tactics now inherently reduce block/miss rates by x% per point.
I don't know how I would balance the adrenaline issue with this one.
bjornmmcc: For balance issues, I don't believe ANet will make different races do anything but make your character look different. If one race would give a particular profession an edge over having used another race, everyone would be using it. If races are implemented to actually change functions, it'd be cool to see DWing as one of their attributes.
Wow, flash of insight! I have an idea on implementing races now! Look for this in another post.
Oh, and thank you for your comment.
SOT: Thanks a lot! Which version were you hoping to see - dual-wielding similar sized weapons or main and off-hand weapons?
Zorax: There has got to be a synonym for "thank you" somewhere...
MasterDinadan: I have never thought of that. However, I don't believe it would satisfy those who want to see two numbers pop up.
Nevertheless, I will make a suggestion out of it. As I see it, this would be the simplest and most efficient way to implement the concept of DWing.
8] Create a new class of off-hand items linked to Strength. This item simply provides a damage bonus to the primary hand of %5-20%.
To satisfy the die-hard DWing fans, there will probably be a changed animation for those who are using this item. That, and/or they can have two number pop up when you attack - the normal damage of the primary weapon and the damage the off-hand weapon added.
This would solve the adrenaline problem by simply not generating it. Hammers will probably need a small speed-buff.
Eos: It didn't surprise me too much. Although in D&D and other tabletop games, it is casters that is a rarity. However, I find that in online games, casters are a majority.
I would also see a Rogue class, but it would have to be balanced for a PvP-skewed game. I may make a new thread later with what you have brought up [with credit to you, of course].
Madjik: Lol, bookmarked.
bjornmmcc
Dang it. Stupid pic-post limits...

Tomo: Yeah, I dropped that idea pretty fast. There's always Battle Rage...
Most of the suggestions I made could easily be adapted [or have been] for a new profession. Eos posted a great list of suggestions a few posts above you.
BahamutKaiser: I'll do a search for it.
I also believe that the Warrior is limited on options. It'd be great to have another melee class to supplement it so that it could take it's adrenaline skills even further.
akapana21 I play D&D, too. However, remember Drizzt was trained as a fighter first.
Dubby: I'll post in your post. I will pull a bjornmmcc!11

I'll do the others later. I will update my first post with the new suggestions.

DW is a great idea id enjoy having my warrior beat on monsters with two scimmys or even two daggers would be sweet

duel wielding is good man. the rangers have a beast to fight with them.so thats like having two weapons. the beast has life too.so if enemy kills beast then kills you. that's like having double the life because beast buys you time. rangers are so cheap.

Nice to see this topic back out in the open again. I want dual weapons, no ifs ands or buts. This must be included in some form, somewhen soon; not expansion but a game update.

/rez

I am a fan of dual weilding in some games, but i really dont thin A-Net would implement something like that because it would throw off the game to such an extent it would make me cry.

okay, i know people have used all of the arguments about how they think its overpowered, and all of that jazz, and the OP has brought up a very good system, but i know for a fact that if dual weilding was implemented into GW (which it wont be, EVER) people can and WILL abuse it.

Several Examples:
1. Live Vicariously + Dual Weild = what?
2. Illusionary Weaponry + Dual Weild = what?
3. Vampiric Weapon + Dual Weild = what?
4. Warriors Cunning + Dual Weild = what?
and so on and so forth

PS- yes, i know i am about 4 months late on posting, but i was linked to this in another thread and almost cried that people actuallyconsidered this

The only way to fix Dual Weilding in to the skillsets Guild Wars uses - is to handle them like Champs of Norath did - Dual weilding is merely COSMATIC and gives no advantage or disadvantage.

That is - You are holding 2 axes - but only swing 1 of them at a time - so its basically like you are holding 1 axe..

That could work - simply because people would have the choice of giving up the offhand/sheild for another weapon mod. So 40% enchant would still be possible - but at the lose of your second hand.

I say we do it exactly like Final Fantasy XI.

With one point in Dual-Wield, you swing at the speed of both weapon's delay combined, -1%

Next point, would -2%

Eventually, if you had 12 points in dual wielding, you'd be attacking 12% faster than you would had you not dual-wielded. I think that's pretty balanced.

Any 1 handed weapon should be able to be dual wieldable. Sword, axes, wands, etc... Just have the off hand one do 40% of the damage it should.

Some Skills should treat it as one though. Such as live vicariously. Combat skills, should do 1.4% of the single weapon version.

y aprove your comentsbut in any case they better not make it like the stuped SINS with the combo thing that sucks.

in actual game, when u miss a melee attack, u don't actually gain adrenaline... so whilst DW'ing missed attackes should NOT contribute to adnrealine

Hmm I like the over all lay out and the fact you put a lot of time into this post. Very good job all around, heres what I have to say. Although your proposal seems balanced the attributes seem a little blurry... And what happens when a warrior would rather have strength instead of DW? More importantly what happens to the Strength skills? Thus I disagree with making DW a primary attribute... Heres what I think it should be.

Dual Wield Mastery - Dual Wield Mastery increases the damage you do with your off-hand weapon and your chance to inflict a Critical Hit when using an off-hand weapon. For every point into Dual Wield Mastery, your base energy pool is decreased by 1 point and your chance to dual swing is increased by 1%. Many Warrior skills, especially dual attack skills and off-hand attack skills, become more effective with higher Dual Wield Mastery.

The key point is, this attribute ONLY effects your off-hand weapon. Thus you'd need attribute points in both your primary weapon (Axe or Sword) and then into your off-hand weapon. Also you take turns swinging your weapons you don't swing them both at the same time. So 1.33 seconds pass you swing with your axe, 1.33 seconds pass you swing with your sword, 1.33 seconds pass you swing with your axe. Etc etc... Also there would be "Dual" attack skills, these would automically take atleast 50% more adreline then normal adreline skills, and usually take 10-15 energy opposed to how single weapon attacks only cost 5-10. Dual-Swinging would be when you swing with both weapons at the same time. Here are some examples..

Scissor Slash - 14 Adreline
Dual Attack. Strike 25% faster with each weapon dealing +10....45 damage.

Agressive Riposte - 6 Adreline
Skill. Must be wielding a sword in either your primary hand or off hand weapon slot. The next melee attack against you is blocked and you dual swing at your target.

Weapons (Axes or Swords) will now have a chance of requiring dual-wield mastery when dropped from monsters. These weapons would have Off-Hand infront of their name. Thus sounding like "Off-Hand Chaos Axe" or "Off-Hand Flamberge". These weapons would have the same damage as any other axe or sword, but not be able to execute the skills that are linked to Axe Mastery or Sword Mastery. They are only able to perfom skills under the Dual Wield Mastery. Opposed to "Dual" attack skills, off-hand attack skills will be more like Axe Mastery or Swordsmanship skills. Here are some example skills.

Disrupting Blow - 6 Adreline
Off-Hand Attack. Strike target foe interrupting his or her action.

Strengthed Slash - 8 Adreline
Off-Hand Attack. Strike target foe for +3....35 damage.

So now you understand how it would work if you were primarly controling both of your weapons or if you were concentrating on your off-hand weapon. So what about your primary weapon? Well if you remember it requires skills from it's proper attribute (Swordsmanship or Axe Mastery) Thus it can use all the skills from that attribute. Anyways thats all I really have to contribute for now but heres a list of nerfs that could be used. (Not part of my initial proposition)

-Dual Wielding two weapons would require you to field a skill called "Dual Wield" taking up a skill slot, like charm animal. Which would allow you to wield two weapons.
-While Dual Wielding your weapons deal 25% less damage.
-While Dual Wielding it takes 50% longer to gain adreline.
-While Dual Wielding you have a 5% chance of being interrupted while attacking.

I don't want it. I'm happy with Strength. Dual wielding is too gimicky. Plus, that's what an assassin is.

The penatlies for dual wielding should be much higher. If you take into comparison that a shield only has a max AL of 16, which provides about a 20% reduction of dmg according to guildwiki, the off-hand weapon should deal about 50% less damage and your main hand weapon would deal 70% dmg for an overall of 130% dmg.

^ stop bringing up dead posts 2nd time ive seen you do it
note: 70%+50%=120%

WOW! Thread Necromancy big time...
How many minions did you raise with this?

OT: (I guess I should post something OT) Dual Wield sounds nice, I wouldn't mind having it, but everything seems to work nicely now even without Dual Wield.

maybe its me but dont we have a dual wielding char? the assassin? as far as the cine with dual swords it was prob shiros daggers. they are monsters.

as far as dual wielding, i dont see the problem with it but damage should be less. Daggers hace crap for damage but as fast and you get double strike. I am not against the dual wielding but it needs to be modified. just because you are using two axes doesnt mean you should get bonuses from both.

~the rat~